[HHC Study] Hua Hu Ching Chapter 5

[Aaron]

[Note- Although posted in the Taoist Discussions section of this forum, this thread is intended to be a chapter study of Chapter five of the Hua Hu Ching. With that in mind please restrict your responses to the chapter at hand. Any discussions regarding the validity, origins, or intent of the Hua Hu Ching should be directed to another thread and not this one. I welcome everyone to participate. Questions are welcome, as well as answers. Please follow the FAQ rules located in the Tao Te Ching subforum (changing Tao Te Ching to Hua Hu Ching where needed).]

 

Hua Hu Ching

Chapter Five

 

Do you imagine the universe is agitated? Go into the desert at night and look out at the stars. This practice should answer the question. The superior person settles her mind as the universe settles the stars in the sky. By connecting her mind with the subtle origin, she calms it. Once calmed, it naturally expands, and ultimately her mind becomes as vast and immeasurable as the night sky.

 

Translated by Brian Browne Walker

brianbrownewalker.com/hua-hu-ching

[Marblehead]

I like the metaphor and I agree that we should find our own way of calming when we are agitated.

 

However, yes, viewed from a distance it appears that there is much calm in the night sky. But viewed up close there is great turmoil. But we can imagine, right?

[Mal]

I originally read this one as an actual practice instruction.

 

Have we looked at the night sky, was it recently? Have people ever seen the sky at night in a desert (or somewhere with clear air, low humidity and no light pollution) If not make the time to DO IT. Even though I live in “remote areas” and the night sky is quite clear (unlike some places where you don’t even see stars at night) I remember my Dad showing me this for the 1^st time. We were driving between towns (5 hrs) in the desert, new moon. He stopped the car, got us all outside and turned off the lights.

 

The sky is so spectacular!

 

But even just staring up at the sky in most cities can give you something like that experience… and it truly does settle the mind.

[Mal]

Namibian nights http://vimeo.com/squiver/namibian-nights

Very cool but not a substitute for the "real thing"

 

edit ... Hmmm keeps trying to embed when I just type the link so

 

Top link on goggle? https://www.google.com.au/search?q=namibian+nights&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-au:official&client=firefox-a&safe=active#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=2&gs_ri=serp&tok=Cdp5pua_vraB-D1ZueAUXw&pq=namibian%20nights&cp=23&gs_id=10z&xhr=t&q=namibian+nights+on+vimo&es_nrs=true&pf=p&safe=active&client=firefox-a&hs=Zhb&tbo=d&rls=org.mozilla:en-au%3Aofficial&sclient=psy-ab&oq=namibian+nights+on+vimo&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41867550,d.aGc&fp=cb9df04a10e3c0b7&biw=1280&bih=885

Edited February 5, 2013 by Mal Stainkey

[Mal]

While I lean towards Walkers more "practice like" translation there is "more" in Ni's

 

The old master said, "Kind prince, what do you think? Can the great space of the East be measured by the mind?"

The prince replied, "No, Venerable Teacher."

"Kind prince, what do you think? Can the space of the four directions, as well as above and below, which constitute the profound vastness of the universe, be measured by the mind?"

"No, Venerable Teacher."

"Kind prince, the mind can be just as immeasurable as the universe itself. An integral being settles his mind just as the vast universe settles itself. He unites his mind with the unnameable Subtle Origin and it's expression as the multi-universe in which there is no past, present or future. This is how an integral being deals with his mind."

 

Ni's HHC 5

[spiraltao]

" it's expression as the multi-universe in which there is no past, present or future. This is how an integral being deals with his mind."

 

 

so the concept of this little snippet is to understand that to be "integral" there is only now?

[Marblehead]

" it's expression as the multi-universe in which there is no past, present or future. This is how an integral being deals with his mind."

 

 

so the concept of this little snippet is to understand that to be "integral" there is only now?

True, but don't forget the lessons of the past and don't forget to plan a little bit for the future while you are living in the "now".

[Mal]

Yes, It’s important not to starve when there is no food, or freeze when it’s cold, and using past experiences to plan for the future is certainly helpful avoiding things like that.

 

All we “actually experience” (as opposed to thinking about) is now.

[Mal]

that to be "integral" there is only now?

 

I'm not sure if this is going off on a tangent, as the "now" stuff was only in Ni's but I have been contemplating Spiraltao's comment and how that fits with Marbelhead's remembering the past and planing for a future (which I think is important and perhaps an area that "Taoism" doesn't overly address but perhaps "Taoism" feels there is enough focus on these things already)

 

That there really is only "now" is increasingly something that I experience and agree with, making "life" rather strange with planing holidays, doing things next Wednesday, being asked why you did this last Friday. With past and future not actually existing (except in our memories) how can we learn from the past and plan for the future.

 

Perhaps this is where the I Ching comes in. While there is only "now" there are patterns/cycles that gave rise to that"now" and knowing where "now" is within those patterns a "future" can be "prepared for"

 

?

Edited February 9, 2013 by Mal Stainkey

[spiraltao]

Food for thought Mal! Great post. Aaron?

[Marblehead]

Perhaps this is where the I Ching comes in. While there is only "now" there are patterns/cycles that gave rise to that"now" and knowing where "now" is within those patterns a "future" can be "prepared for"

 

?

Hey Mal!!! I think you've got it!

 

(I don't do the I Ching but that doesn't matter.)

[Mal]

:-) I only got into the I Ching because of this book, and as I prefer Walkers translation in this case I'm going back to looking at the stars (very pretty with no moon currently visible)

[Marblehead]

I'm going back to looking at the stars (very pretty with no moon currently visible)

Yes, one can attain great inner peace doing that if one can empty their mind while doing it.

[流浪者]

This one brings harmony to my soul.

No star in the sky is misplaced. No ripple in the sea a destination. A beautiful stillness drifting towards eternity.

 

Love is boundless and profound!

[ilumairen]

On 2/3/2013 at 3:52 PM, Aaron said:

 

Do you imagine the universe is agitated? Go into the desert at night and look out at the stars. This practice should answer the question. The superior person settles her mind as the universe settles the stars in the sky. By connecting her mind with the subtle origin, she calms it. Once calmed, it naturally expands, and ultimately her mind becomes as vast and immeasurable as the night sky.

 

Translated by Brian Browne Walker

brianbrownewalker.com/hua-hu-ching