Descriptions and explanations of "The Now"

[Stosh]

_{Describing the now as 'just long enough for a person to see it' seems a nice compromise between the factions of opinion on the subject.}

 

_{My habit has often been to ruminate far too long on what is already a done deal , and that which I try to imagine repercussions to be from the present. Its a nice habit to try to mitigate those mental habits which are rooted in a lot of erroneous-inexpedient thinking.}

Edited February 11, 2013 by Stosh

[RyuuKyuzo]

Perhaps true, presented a bit harshly, but I'm not an absolutist of anything.

I get within a second of Now, I"m happy as a clam.

 

I'd add that Tolle is very anti-think. He constantly repeats the theme 'Thinking' is the enemy. I feel he over stresses the point. A quiet mind is the best mind, but imo thinking is a tool to valuable to throw out.

 

Tolle differentiates between repetitive background thoughts and what he calls "focused thinking" -- the kind of thinking you use voluntarily to solve a problem. It's not that he's against all forms of thinking.

[Vmarco]

Hehehe. I deserved that, didn't I?

 

But no, that's not what I meant. What I meant is that they, the QM people still have a lot of work to do as far as I am concerned.

 

So glad you got the joke. And yes, I agree, the QM people have lots of work to do.

 

Of course,..."you can’t solve problems with the same level of consciousness that created it" Albert Einstein

[Stosh]

The story of the Gordian Knot comes to mind.

[Vmarco]

The story of the Gordian Knot comes to mind.

 

I recall pondering if Alexander had some contact with a Buddhist in his youth,...very Vajrayana that slicing of the Gordian Knot. Can you do it with your beliefs?

[Stosh]

_{It strikes me as more a reflection of attitude rather than beliefs.}

[Marblehead]

So glad you got the joke. And yes, I agree, the QM people have lots of work to do.

 

Of course,..."you can’t solve problems with the same level of consciousness that created it" Albert Einstein

Yeah, I have to give them credit because they are seeking further and better understanding. But they get paid for that kind of stuff, I don't.

[SEEKER OF TRUTH]

The "Now" is the moment when inhalation switches to exhalation and the only way to stay in it is to follow the breath, mindless, from the point of the switch.

[mYTHmAKER]

The "Now" is the moment when inhalation switches to exhalation and the only way to stay in it is to follow the breath, mindless, from the point of the switch.

Yes interesting - the space between the in breath and out breath

[Vmarco]

The "Now" is the moment when inhalation switches to exhalation and the only way to stay in it is to follow the breath, mindless, from the point of the switch.

 

For Connected Breathers, there is no space between in-breath and out-breath,...in fact, according to those practioners, those who do not breath connectively, are stuck in a birth trauma,...that gasp while taking the first breath in a forced way.

 

The Now cannot be realized while inhaling, exhaling, or no-haling. And, as the Now never moved a centimeter in all eternity, no movement, whether breath, energy, sensory notion, or thought, can ever recognize it.

[SEEKER OF TRUTH]

For Connected Breathers, there is no space between in-breath and out-breath,...in fact, according to those practioners, those who do not breath connectively, are stuck in a birth trauma,...that gasp while taking the first breath in a forced way.

 

The Now cannot be realized while inhaling, exhaling, or no-haling. And, as the Now never moved a centimeter in all eternity, no movement, whether breath, energy, sensory notion, or thought, can ever recognize it.

I see.

[Marblehead]

... the Now never moved a centimeter in all eternity, ...

You get one point for that.

[Stosh]

I recall pondering if Alexander had some contact with a Buddhist in his youth,...very Vajrayana that slicing of the Gordian Knot. Can you do it with your beliefs?

I googled up the far eastern Knots to 'get' your reference , if its referring to the linkage between now, past ,and future .. It isnt a problem to be solved or defeated ( its a perceptual model) ,, and the same goes for dependent origination ( also a knot reference )

Einstein asserted that God doesnt play dice, so in large degree I figure he would be comfortable with dependent origination... but quantum physics which came after him , seems to be indicating that dice is getting played at some level (meaning that there is randomness at some level) . Personally I wish to adhere to the idea that there is ' free will' , and a disconnect -mental- which allows us to originate ideas outside the box ( such as Alexander demonstrated,, and so figuratively speaking ,he cuts the Gordian Knot for me).

[Vmarco]

I googled up the far eastern Knots to 'get' your reference , if its referring to the linkage between now, past ,and future .. It isnt a problem to be solved or defeated ( its a perceptual model) ,, and the same goes for dependent origination ( also a knot reference )

Einstein asserted that God doesnt play dice, so in large degree I figure he would be comfortable with dependent origination... but quantum physics which came after him , seems to be indicating that dice is getting played at some level (meaning that there is randomness at some level) . Personally I wish to adhere to the idea that there is ' free will' , and a disconnect -mental- which allows us to originate ideas outside the box ( such as Alexander demonstrated,, and so figuratively speaking ,he cuts the Gordian Knot for me).

 

Yes,...most of us would like to adhere to the idea that there is "free will"...but will having such a belief undermine your success in uncovering truth?

 

Jim Walker, in "The Problems with Beliefs," mentions: Aristotle believed in a prime mover, a god that moves the sun and moon and objects through space, and that with such a belief, one cannot possibly understand the laws of gravitation or inertia. Isaac Newton saw through that and developed a workable gravitational theory; however, his belief in absolute time prevented him from formulating a theory of relativity. Einstein, however, saw through that and thought in terms of relative time. Therefore, he formulated his famous theory of general relativity, yet his own beliefs could not accept pure randomness in subatomic physics and thus barred him from understanding the consequences of quantum mechanics.

[Vmarco]

You get one point for that.

 

Don't know if you meant it that way,...but that really cracked me up.

[Marblehead]

Don't know if you meant it that way,...but that really cracked me up.

Yes, I meant it jokingly as well as seriously. Those words I quoted deserved repeating and acknowleging. But I didn't want you getting all sentimental about it.

[Stosh]

Yes,...most of us would like to adhere to the idea that there is "free will"...but will having such a belief undermine your success in uncovering truth?

 

Jim Walker, in "The Problems with Beliefs," mentions: Aristotle believed in a prime mover, a god that moves the sun and moon and objects through space, and that with such a belief, one cannot possibly understand the laws of gravitation or inertia. Isaac Newton saw through that and developed a workable gravitational theory; however, his belief in absolute time prevented him from formulating a theory of relativity. Einstein, however, saw through that and thought in terms of relative time. Therefore, he formulated his famous theory of general relativity, yet his own beliefs could not accept pure randomness in subatomic physics and thus barred him from understanding the consequences of quantum mechanics.

Potentially yes , I could be inhibiting progress to a truth by holding to a perception of free will. It is just where I am at now

,consequently ,,( if there is no free will ) then it is outside my ability to change my perception of the issue.

No person has convinced me yet , presented an argument to me ,which ,,,I consider strong - to the effect that ,, there is conclusive benefit to be had in abandoning --- the illusion of free will ( or ego for that matter)

 

I have read assertions galore ,

that there is afterlife , that there are gods , that some special amazing sort of enlightenment is attainable while alive etc.

I am willing to consider assertions ,, but I dont jump for them, I just check them out and consider the content first.

 

The mundane ,knowable peace ,of a contented belly and a quiet mind is really quite wonderful in itself ,

I dont have to chase the strange rainbows that others see.

It is Ok if unknown random brings to me greater riches at its own pace , or if my own intentioned drifting does.

Many have said that one can chase his own tail with futility , and to overshoot a mark misses as cleanly as to undershoot.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

im posting in the here and now.

[Fū Yue]

im posting in the here and now.

 

 

Impossible. The here and now is not where you think you are right now, which is in the past, and entirely a concept, possibly imaginary. 'Here' is not a place, nor a time. Here is awareness unattainable by any grasping, beyond the concepts of past, present and future. You aren't doing any posting here. There isn't anything happening here. Everything in awareness is like a snapshot of suchness, totally disjointed and without activity of any kind truly arising... the locomotion that makes things appear to move is your own karmic dispositions.

 

Moment to moment awareness is just that, and each moment stands alone, frozen in a mandala of unimaginable depth, wheel rainbows moving in strange harmonies creating the brilliant, silent music we erroneously call human life and grasp on to as if they were solid 'things'.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

it was "here and now" at the "time", not anymore.

[Stosh]

I was under the impression that I had been told that all things- events were connected to one another ,, that events and objects were indistinct, , presaged or completely reliant on all other things and events to be. It conflicts with seeing all events as "standing alone" ,, and Im not sure if I can have a Karmic disposition of my own either.

Either view is fine , though they seem to contrast , IMO ... but the thing is .. I just dont see what the effect - difference the conceptry is intended to have on me or my Karmic disposition.

Can you relate it ?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

One-Dimensional self-contained-self-perpetuating "isness".


Everything is "touching" everything else. every point has a line drawn to meet with every other point...

every "moment" is intrinsically "now"ness... the whole of this construct is akin to a toroid or tesseract in so much that you can find lines, but all lines loop back upon themselves while offering branches to alter your course all throughout.


Time is a toroid, the farthest point backwards in time you can go is the single moment that steps into the future.



All points are the focal center for all energies; the Locus of Reality.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Fū Yue]

I was under the impression that I had been told that all things- events were connected to one another ,, that events and objects were indistinct, , presaged or completely reliant on all other things and events to be. It conflicts with seeing all events as "standing alone" ,, and Im not sure if I can have a Karmic disposition of my own either.

Either view is fine , though they seem to contrast , IMO ... but the thing is .. I just dont see what the effect - difference the conceptry is intended to have on me or my Karmic disposition.

Can you relate it ?

 

 

Take the spokes out from a wheel and what happens? Karma is unfounded, and so everything in the world is like a googolplex of runaway trains smashing into each other at the same time. But the thing is the trains have no wheels, so it's like the silliest stop motion film ever. Every moment stands on it's own, but in every frame of the stop motion film you'll see all the trains with no wheels heading toward disaster in the background and foreground, like a dastardly villain chained them all together with adamantine confetti. Everyone's trying to come to a grinding halt but the brakes are broken, so you have to jump out of the train and do a barrel roll on to the other side before it all blows up in your face.

 

Thankfully there's huge wide open awkward silences between each frame. One minute you're in the train, the next moment you're dusting off your tuxedo.

 

I don't know if this helps you, but i found it humorous to envision.

[Stosh]

Take the spokes out from a wheel and what happens? Karma is unfounded, and so everything in the world is like a googolplex of runaway trains smashing into each other at the same time. But the thing is the trains have no wheels, so it's like the silliest stop motion film ever. Every moment stands on it's own, but in every frame of the stop motion film you'll see all the trains with no wheels heading toward disaster in the background and foreground, like a dastardly villain chained them all together with adamantine confetti. Everyone's trying to come to a grinding halt but the brakes are broken, so you have to jump out of the train and do a barrel roll on to the other side before it all blows up in your face.

 

Thankfully there's huge wide open awkward silences between each frame. One minute you're in the train, the next moment you're dusting off your tuxedo.

 

I don't know if this helps you, but i found it humorous to envision.

Its an amusing scenario , but It doesnt really approach the question I have about the 'meaning' -benefit a person might derive from the segmented view of time. Thanks for giving it a shot though.

[Stosh]

One-Dimensional self-contained-self-perpetuating "isness".

 

 

Everything is "touching" everything else. every point has a line drawn to meet with every other point...

 

every "moment" is intrinsically "now"ness... the whole of this construct is akin to a toroid or tesseract in so much that you can find lines, but all lines loop back upon themselves while offering branches to alter your course all throughout.

 

 

Time is a toroid, the farthest point backwards in time you can go is the single moment that steps into the future.

 

 

 

All points are the focal center for all energies; the Locus of Reality.

Sorry Judo , I still dont get the significance but thanks.

unless its just asserting that yesterday is gone and tomorrow isnt here yet ,, which to me doesnt really need much asserting or visualizing.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Stosh