What defines a Daoist?

[Phi92]

the logical question at this point is >

 

 

you would like to be a true daoist based on what notion of what a true daoist might be?

 

 

from where does the notion arise? from what belief, fantasy or notion does it arise? is there any idea behind it at all, or is it just a whim, or a conviction that you are find yourself housing quite mysteriously?

 

and yes beginners are more than welcome here. to know your beginning is useful. hence my question.

 

I would first like to understand every major concept of Taoism, then get involved more into practice.

 

I'm here to ask and learn.

 

Why do I want to get involved in Taoism and accept it as my path? Because I find it to be true and useful.

 

I most certainly have a notion and basic knowledge about Daoism, I just want to clear things up and get a better understanding.

[Marblehead]

Unfortunatelly, there isn't much info avalible in my language and there are no groups of Daoists here.

Have you looked to the Russians? My understanding is that there are quite a few Russian Taoists.

 

I hope that "beginners" are welcome here. I don't see why they wouldn't be

Oh, everyone is welcome here. (Even though a couple have been asked to leave. Hehehe.) We even put up with the Christians who visit here.

[PLB]

Removed by author

Edited February 10, 2013 by PLB

[takaaki]

one of the things that defines a daoist is a lack of attraction to labels. so a daoist is unconcerned about being labelled as 'a daoist'.. such a person does not need to self define, so there will be no need for lots of "I" statements and self describing.. you will have to be subtle to find these people.

 

We found you!

[takaaki]

Why would you want to be a true daoist , if you dont know what it is?

 

How is it possible to want to be something that you dont know about?

 

Good point. I really love it when people ask scholarly questions.

We must not let the bad guys in.

[Phi92]

Good point. I really love it when people ask scholarly questions.

We must not let the bad guys in.

 

Are you calling me a "bad guy"?

[takaaki]

the logical question at this point is >

 

 

you would like to be a true daoist based on what notion of what a true daoist might be?

 

 

from where does the notion arise? from what belief, fantasy or notion does it arise? is there any idea behind it at all, or is it just a whim, or a conviction that you are find yourself housing quite mysteriously?

 

and yes beginners are more than welcome here. to know your beginning is useful. hence my question.

 

You are really good. I need to check you out. I can't believe there can be more than one of me.

[takaaki]

Are you calling me a "bad guy"?

 

No. You are a nice guy. You want to join the Tao party. You will have many like-minded friends here.

[Phi92]

I apologize if my questions offended anyone.

 

I wanted to discuss some core concepts to see what other people mean.

My intention was to learn and to discuss.

 

I don't want to join the "Tao party", I want to gain knowledge about it beyond wikipedia or bad translations.

 

I don't think I'm worthy of calling myself a Daoist since I don't know much yet, just the basics, but I'm hoping to learn.

 

Thank you for your patience

[三江源]

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Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[Phi92]

Do you mean you dont like dancing in a group, or that you dont like speechifying and rhetoric?

 

I understood "Tao party" as a metaphor for not taking Daoism seriously and just wanting to vaguely explore the concepts.

 

If that was a kindhearted comment, then I apologize

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I would first like to understand every major concept of Taoism, then get involved more into practice.

 

I'm here to ask and learn.

 

Why do I want to get involved in Taoism and accept it as my path? Because I find it to be true and useful.

 

I most certainly have a notion and basic knowledge about Daoism, I just want to clear things up and get a better understanding.

 

It might help to compartmentalize the many connecting aspects of Daoism.

 

Starting with:

 

Social/moral/political

Personal/spiritual/mental

Environmental Nature

Health

Spirit World

 

The interconnection of these things

The study of change in these things

What happens when they are imbalanced within and in relation to other things

Strategies for living with them effectively

Ways be able to learn and understand these strategies beyond the intellectual level

 

Main written sources:

The I Ching

Dao De Jing

Nei Ye (predates the Dao De Jing)

Nei Jia (said to predate the other three)

Chuang Tzu

 

A Taoist is often a "renaissance man" who studies many arts on a path to self-refinement; including visual, herbalism, physical/martial, musical, tea, poetry, and philosophy. Basically anything he/she puts their hands too becomes a doorway to the second list above.

[mYTHmAKER]

A dictionary

[Phi92]

It might help to compartmentalize the many connecting aspects of Daoism.

 

Starting with:

 

Social/moral/political

Personal/spiritual/mental

Environmental Nature

Health

Spirit World

 

The interconnection of these things

The study of change in these things

What happens when they are imbalanced within and in relation to other things

Strategies for living with them effectively

Ways be able to learn and understand these strategies beyond the intellectual level

 

Main written sources:

The I Ching

Dao De Jing

Nei Ye (predates the Dao De Jing)

Nei Jia (said to predate the other three)

Chuang Tzu

 

A Taoist is often a "renaissance man" who studies many arts on a path to self-refinement; including visual, herbalism, physical/martial, musical, tea, poetry, and philosophy. Basically anything he/she puts their hands too becomes a doorway to the second list above.

 

Thank you very much, this is a really clear, simple and systematic approach!

 

I will most definitely research and practice those topics and use your list as a guideline.

[ChiDragon]

I understood "Tao party" as a metaphor for not taking Daoism seriously and just wanting to vaguely explore the concepts.

 

If that was a kindhearted comment, then I apologize

 

I see the potentiality in your wisdom to explore the Taoist concepts. Yes, there are fallacies very vague. The advisory in filtering out the unwanted is in effect.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

The Dao is not defined, the Dao defines; a daoist is defined by [the] Dao.


I'm still so used to "T" that dao looks too much like "D'oh!"

[ChiDragon]

This is a free world. One can have one's own definition of Tao or borrow from someone else if one see fits. Let's hope for the best and the closest.

[Phi92]

This is a free world. One can have one's own definition of Tao or borrow from someone else if one see fits. Let's hope for the best and the closest.

 

Thank you, Chi Dragon, you are very wise!

[adept]

 

Neidan is another term for Chi Kung. The Chinese Taoist called Chi Kung as Neidan.

 

 

Neidan is internal alchemy, not qigong. Maybe you're confusing neigong for neidan.

[ChiDragon]

Neidan is internal alchemy, not qigong. Maybe you're confusing neigong for neidan.

 

Let's say we all are confused.....

[Marblehead]

 

Let's say we all are confused.....

I'll buy into that.

[Ya Mu]

Phi92

 

Instead of trying to define a Taoist, I suggest instead to search for inner truth through Taoist inner alchemy. When you have found it Tao will have found you.

 

There certainly should be teachers of Taoist alchemy in Croatia as about 20 years ago I had a Croatian student who was already studying inner alchemy and he said he had learned locally.

 

 

The truth is, no amount of words can define Tao so therefore no amount of words can define a Taoist. One either walks in the flow of Tao or they don't.

[shanlung]

 

Hello everyone!

 

My question is - what concepts does one need to accept to call himself a Daoist?

 

 

If I can define the Dao or Tao, I can define for you what is a Daoist or Taoist.

The problem is that the Tao itself cannot be defined.

 

Not somewhere in some obscure passages of the Tao Te Ching, but right at the beginning.

 

Tao ke Tao , fei chang Tao

Ming ke Ming, fei chang Ming

 

The Tao that you think is the Tao, is not the Tao

The Name that you think is the Name, is not the Name

 

If the Tao cannot be defined, do explain to me how the Taoist can ever be defined.

I think I spend my time far better in hunting down that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

[Marblehead]

I think I spend my time far better in hunting down that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

I found out just recently that no matter who eagerly one tries to get closer to the rainbow the rainbow will move away from that person at the same spped the person is trying to get closer to it. "Reached for but cannot be touched."

[Phi92]

If I can define the Dao or Tao, I can define for you what is a Daoist or Taoist.

The problem is that the Tao itself cannot be defined.

 

Not somewhere in some obscure passages of the Tao Te Ching, but right at the beginning.

 

Tao ke Tao , fei chang Tao

Ming ke Ming, fei chang Ming

 

The Tao that you think is the Tao, is not the Tao

The Name that you think is the Name, is not the Name

 

If the Tao cannot be defined, do explain to me how the Taoist can ever be defined.

I think I spend my time far better in hunting down that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

 

Less mysticism please.

 

I just asked what a Daoist is in the manner of - what does a person who follows the Dao do? What are the common practices and held beliefs?

 

If we can't define the Dao, which is true, that doesn't mean we can't define the means to try to get closer to the Dao, since it cannot be known rationally, but only through direct experience.

 

When I asked about the definition of a Daoist, I didn't mean about what the Dao is or something simmilar.

 

I meant how to live the Dao and try to get closer to it, which is a personal experience, but I don't see why someone wouldn't discuss it and share it.

 

If we can't even define a Daoist, then why call Qigong, Taijiquan, Neidan and other things Daoist practices?

 

We can't define the Dao, as the ontological principle, but we can define a person who follows the Dao as a Daoist.

 

I really don't see the need for so much obscurantism.