What defines a Daoist?

[Phi92]

Hello everyone!

 

My question is - what concepts does one need to accept to call himself a Daoist?

 

My answer would be simply - "The Dao produced One, One produced Two, Two produced Three, Three produced ten thousand things."

 

My understanding is that that metaphor denotes periods of creation in the Universe.

 

Dao = Primordial being

One = Existence

Two = Yin, Yang

Three = Yin, Yang and Qi, however, this is disputed

Ten thousand things = Everything that is

 

Am I right or wrong?

 

So accepting those basic concepts: Dao, Yin-Yang, Qi and perhaps the Three Virtues (compassion, humility, moderation), one can call himself a Daoist.

 

There is also the difference between philosophical and religious Daoism, which sounds like a Western misconception.

 

I believe every Daoist is partially both religious/spiritual and philosophical.

 

I sincerely doubt that Daoists agree with everything Lao Zi, Zhuang Zi or Lie Yukou said.

 

What are your thoughts? How would you define the basic concepts of Daoism and how would you define a Daoist?

 

Thanks in advance!

[takaaki]

Hello everyone!

 

My question is - what concepts does one need to accept to call himself a Daoist?

 

My answer would be simply - "The Dao produced One, One produced Two, Two produced Three, Three produced ten thousand things."

 

Which Chapter is this? I would like to look at the Chinese text before I reply.

 

Is that ok with you?

[三江源]

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Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[Protector]

Everyone is a Taoist

[三江源]

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Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[Phi92]

Which Chapter is this? I would like to look at the Chinese text before I reply.

 

Is that ok with you?

http://www.wussu.com/laotzu/laotzu42.html - Tao Te Ching, Chapter 42

 

I hope this helps

[spiraltao]

To me it is seeing the world with clarity, as if through the eyes of a two year old. WU-using common sense and awareness, is what we strive to use.

 

We learn to recognize the mental illusions that obscure our ideas, lives, views, etc.

 

That is just a couple of ideas that I feel I have grasped from Taoism.

Edited February 9, 2013 by spiraltao

[三江源]

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Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[Phi92]

grasping! oh noes!

?

[三江源]

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Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[takaaki]

Could you get back to us with your translation(s) asap.

 

I don't do translations. How can I when I have repeatedly stated that it is not possible to do that with the Tao Te Ching.

I just wanted to compare the Chinese text with this quaint nursery school-like statement of "Tao produces One, One produces two, two produces three...."

[mYTHmAKER]

I don't do translations. How can I when I have repeatedly stated that it is not possible to do that with the Tao Te Ching.

I just wanted to compare the Chinese text with this quaint nursery school-like statement of "Tao produces One, One produces two, two produces three...."

It ain't quaint

[三江源]

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Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[ChiDragon]

Hello everyone!

 

My question is - what concepts does one need to accept to call himself a Daoist?

There many categories of Taoists due to the level of practice or what they want to be acquired. It would require a long discussion from a Chinese view. It is not a matter of accepting a concept to be a Taoist. It is a matter that one must practice the Taoist religion, in order, to be called as a Taoist. Of course, this is only the Chinese point of view.

 

My answer would be simply - "The Dao produced One, One produced Two, Two produced Three, Three produced ten thousand things."

Sorry, This is not your answer. It has nothing to do with the definition of a Taoist .

 

My understanding is that that metaphor denotes periods of creation in the Universe.

 

Dao = Primordial being

One = Existence

Two = Yin, Yang

Three = Yin, Yang and Qi, however, this is disputed

Ten thousand things = Everything that is

 

Am I right or wrong?

I can go along with that.

 

 

So accepting those basic concepts: Dao, Yin-Yang, Qi and perhaps the Three Virtues (compassion, humility, moderation), one can call himself a Daoist.

It is not quite that simple to be a Taoist. You are not even close.

 

There is also the difference between philosophical and religious Daoism, which sounds like a Western misconception.

This is not a western misconception. It is a Chinese conception which where the westerners got the idea from.

 

I believe every Daoist is partially both religious/spiritual and philosophical.

In the western point of view, it may be a 'yes'. However, in a Chinese point of view, the definition of a Taoist is one who practice the religion but may only follow some of the principles in the TTC. Those Chinese who only study the principles in the TTC without any religious intention are just scholars. The definition of Taoism for westerners is very inclusive. Any notion regarding to Tao was considered to be Taoism. The Chinese are specially separate the Taoist religion and philosophy in a distinctive manner.

 

 

I sincerely doubt that Daoists agree with everything Lao Zi, Zhuang Zi or Lie Yukou said.

FYI In the Chinese point of view, Lao Zi defines Tao and Zhuang Zi interpret Lao Zi's definition of Tao more extensively.

 

 

What are your thoughts? How would you define the basic concepts of Daoism and how would you define a Daoist?

Like I say above, the westerns will give a definition of Taoism which would be different from a Chinese point of view. Therefore, who do you want to believe.......???

 

Thanks in advance!

 

You welcome..........!!!

Edited March 13, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

and share your findings so as to upgrade the quaintness of olde tyme daoists. I remember when daoists never had mobile phones. didnt even have landline phones. didnt even use phone boxes. there werent any phone boxes. we didnt even know what boxes were. the concept of 'box' didnt exist. so dont talk to me about mobile phones and translation apps. well you can if you like I suppose. but seriously. lets get to the basics of life before telephones. I'm talking primordial awareness.

 

There are Taoists in the modern time too. Why not allow them to have a mobile phone....???

[Marblehead]

I'm talking primordial awareness.

You mean like the basic instincts of the human animal and its basic nature?

[Phi92]

 

Hello everyone!

 

My question is - what concepts does one need to accept to call himself a Daoist?

There many categories of Taoists due to the level of practice or what they want to be acquired. It would require a long discussion from a Chinese view. It is not a matter of accepting a concept to be a Taoist. It is a matter that one must practice the Taoist religion, in order, to be called as a Taoist. Of course, this is only the Chinese point of view.

- But what does practicing the religion include? I see Lao Zi, the Three Oure Ones and the Eight Immortals as worthy of worship. I also want to practice Neidan, meditation and internal martial arts. I would really much like to be a true Daoist, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do, that's why I ask for help

 

 

>My answer would be simply - "The Dao produced One, One produced Two, Two produced Three, Three produced ten thousand things."

Sorry, This is not your answer. It has nothing to do with the definition of a Taoist .

 

My understanding is that that metaphor denotes periods of creation in the Universe.

 

Dao = Primordial being

One = Existence

Two = Yin, Yang

Three = Yin, Yang and Qi, however, this is disputed

Ten thousand things = Everything that is

 

Am I right or wrong?

I can go along with that.

 

 

So accepting those basic concepts: Dao, Yin-Yang, Qi and perhaps the Three Virtues (compassion, humility, moderation), one can call himself a Daoist.

It is not quite that simple to be a Taoist. You are not even close.

- I wish I was close :/

 

There is also the difference between philosophical and religious Daoism, which sounds like a Western misconception.

This is not a western misconception. It is a Chinese conception which where the westerners got the idea from.

- But what's the main difference? They believe the same thing, but the philosophical side doesn't worship Gods?

 

I believe every Daoist is partially both religious/spiritual and philosophical.

In the western point of view, it may be a 'yes'. However, in a Chinese point of view, the definition of a Taoist is one who practice the religion but may only follow some of the principles in the TTC. Those Chinese who only study the principles in the TTC without any religious intention are just scholars. The definition of Taoism for westerners is very inclusive. Any notion regarding to Tao was considered to be Taoism. The Chinese are specially separate the Taoist religion and philosophy in a distinctive manner.

- So one who accepts some Taoist concepts and incorporates them in their own life and worldview, their own "personal philosophy", can be seen as a "real" daoist? Even from the Chinese point of view?

 

I sincerely doubt that Daoists agree with everything Lao Zi, Zhuang Zi or Lie Yukou said.

FYI In the Chinese point of view, Lao Zi defines Tao and Zhuang Zi interpret Lao Zi's definition of Tao more extensively.

 

 

What are your thoughts? How would you define the basic concepts of Daoism and how would you define a Daoist?

Like I say above, the westerns will give a definition of Taoism which would be different from a Chinese point of view. Therefore, who do want to believe.......???

- While I don't discourage western people to interpret the Dao in their own way and have their own understanding, I believe that the Chinese side is more original and more well structured.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

You welcome..........!!!

 

[ChiDragon]

Phi92 said:

I also want to practice Neidan, meditation and internal martial arts. I would really much like to be a true Daoist, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do, that's why I ask for help

 

You do not have to worship any Taoist deity to be a Taoist. You only need to understand and follow the principles in the TTC as a guideline. You must have a full understanding for the concept of Wu Wei. For me, I considered myself as a Semi-Taoist because I only follow the principles of the TTC and practice Tai Ji and Chi Kung for longevity. BTW These two arts are considered to be internal martial arts. Neidan is another term for Chi Kung. The Chinese Taoist called Chi Kung as Neidan.

 

FYI I must specify that my inputs are straightly from a Chinese point of view. You should be aware there are contradictions with the western view. It is your choice of which way you want to go.

[三江源]

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Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源

[ChiDragon]

I believe that Phi92 had said:
"but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do, that's why I ask for help "

PS.....
If something that we don't know, then it will be don't know forever...??? Don't we have a chance to find out...???

Edited February 9, 2013 by ChiDragon

[thinker]

My best advice at this stage in my understanding is to start with the "three jewels". While there's a lot more, much of it seems to be refinements, expansions, and applications of those ideals.

[Protector]

Even Jesus was a Taoist, "I am the truth, the light, and the way"

[Phi92]

I don't know yet, but I am eager to learn.

 

Honestly, I'd love to learn more about the Chinese point of view.

 

Unfortunatelly, there isn't much info avalible in my language and there are no groups of Daoists here.

 

I'm sort of alone in my interest.

 

I wan't to learn more about the concepts of Taoism and read more than one translation of the Tao Te Ching, Zhuang Zi and Lie Zi.

 

I hope that "beginners" are welcome here. I don't see why they wouldn't be

[Reed]

I hope that "beginners" are welcome here. I don't see why they wouldn't be

 

If they're not, then I'm in trouble

[三江源]

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Edited March 18, 2015 by 三江源