The New Age - what helps, what works, what harms, what doesn't work

[RongzomFan]

OMG this is the coolest thing on Buddhism I've ever seen! this could actually get me interested in it! Quit hatin' Lulz

 

I got lost at ashram. Ashrams ain't Buddhist.

[RongzomFan]

Haven't the Buddhist masters you study been contacting "spirit guides" for thousands of years too? Apparently Dudjom Lingpa received his entire teaching in visions and dreams from entities and ascended masters and he is considered one of the most important Dzogchen masters and he didn't even ever have a physical human teacher.

 

 

No no no.

 

In these cases, one's own wisdom takes the form of deities, Pure Lands etc., especially in a lucid dream environment where clarity is 7 times higher.

[Immortal4life]

I heard Eckart Tolle sat on a park bench for 2 years

[RongzomFan]

Haven't the Buddhist masters you study been contacting "spirit guides" for thousands of years too? Apparently Dudjom Lingpa received his entire teaching in visions and dreams from entities and ascended masters and he is considered one of the most important Dzogchen masters and he didn't even ever have a physical human teacher.

 

Not just Dudjom Lingpa. Many tertons, including modern day Dudjom Rinpoche, Dilgo Khyetse, Kuzang Dechen Lingpa. For these high level masters, it would be unusual not to have these experiences.

[Jetsun]

No no no.

 

In these cases, one's own wisdom takes the form of deities, Pure Lands etc., especially in a lucid dream environment where clarity is 7 times higher.

 

I don't see a huge amount of difference except the form which gets manifested, a Western New Ager is likely to manifest a form like Arch Angel Raphael to contact instead of Manjushri because it is more familiar figure to the Western Psyche, but they might represent the same thing just in different forms.

[RongzomFan]

I don't see a huge amount of difference except the form which gets manifested, a Western New Ager is likely to manifest a form like Arch Angel Raphael to contact instead of Manjushri because it is more familiar figure to the Western Psyche, but they might represent the same thing just in different forms.

 

 

nah, that would just be a trickster spirit.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Fair enough. I myself have not seen anything that convinced me, but it is respectable that you make your own decisions, look into things yourself, and have discrimination and are discerning.

 

 

 

If you haven't seen the new demo he did it might be worth checking into.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTvyP_KWv50

 

 

Sky One series 'Myths Magic And Monsters'

 

Host: Dr. Lawrence Blair (Ph.D. Anthropology)

 

Catherine Nixon Cooke (President of the Mind Science Foundation)

 

http://www.mindscience.org/

 

[email protected]

 

(210) 821-6094 Ext. 201

 

 

 

Roger Nilson (M.D. Orthopedic Surgeon Sweden)

 

Dr. Gregory V. Simpson (Ph.D. Biophysics Albert Einstein College of Medicine)

 

 

 

Also:

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1353653

 

Detection of extraordinary large bio-magnetic field strength from human hand during external Qi emission.This magnetic field strength was greater than that of normal human bio-magnetism by 1,000 times at least.

 

 

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9051169

 

Emission of extremely strong magnetic fields from the head and whole body during oriental breathing exercises.

 

It is concluded that traditional Oriental Qi Gong breathing appears to stimulate an unusually large biomagnetic field emission.

 

 

 

Also tummo as I have had it explained to me is nearly identical in many respects to the first level of his school.

 

There is an absolutely overwhelming amount of evidence for tummo.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m3d_F6Fv6g

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22685240

 

Journal: Psychosomatic Medicine 2012 Jun;74(5):489-94.

 

The influence of concentration/meditation on autonomic nervous system activity and the innate immune response: a case study.

 

 

In 2010 tummo master wim hof was packed in ice for 1 hour 20 minutes under medical observation his core body temperature remained constant.

 

 

http://www.innerfire.nl/files/can-meditation-influence-ans-hopman.pdf

 

Groothuis JT. Eijsvogels TM. Scholten RR. Thijssen DHJ. Hopman M.TE. Can meditation influence the autonomic nervous system? A case report of a man immersed in crushed ice for 80 minutes

 

Journal: Clinical Autonomic Research 2010, 20(5) 316

 

However, the world record holder of full-body ice immersion claims he can influence his autonomic nervous system through the Asian Tummo meditation technique, which is associated with descriptions of intense sensations of body heat. We, therefore, assessed the cardiovascular and thermoregulatory responses to full-body ice immersion in this individual.

 

 

Despite 80 minutes of full-body ice immersion and significant heat loss through the skin, core body temperature was maintained probably by an increased energy expenditure (and therefore heat production). This individual may have influenced the autonomic nervous system, thereby actively regulating the cardiovascular system and thermoregulation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html

 

They were astonished to find that these monks could lower their metabolism by 64 percent. "It was an astounding, breathtaking [no pun intended] result," Benson exclaims.

 

To put that decrease in perspective, metabolism, or oxygen consumption, drops only 10-15 percent in sleep and about 17 percent during simple meditation.

 

 

 

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2194593

 

Journal: Behavioral Medicine Volume 16, Issue 2, 1990

 

Dr. Herbert Benson Harvard Medical

 

Three case reports of the metabolic and electroencephalographic changes during advanced Buddhist meditation techniques.

 

Resting metabolism (VO2) could be both raised (up to 61%) and lowered (down to 64%). The reduction from rest is the largest ever reported.

 

 

 

 

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2002/04.18/09-tummo.html

 

During visits to remote monasteries in the 1980s, Benson and his team studied monks living in the Himalayan Mountains who could, by g Tum-mo meditation, raise the temperatures of their fingers and toes by as much as 17 degrees. It has yet to be determined how the monks are able to generate such heat.

 

 

 

 

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v295/n5846/pdf/295234a0.pdf

 

Body temperature changes during the practice of g Tum-mo yoga

 

 

Dr. Herbert Benson Harvard Medical

Nature 295, 234-236 (21 January 1982) | doi:10.1038/295234a0; Accepted 26 October 1981

 

Tibetan Buddhist meditational practice known as g Tum-mo (heat) yoga living in Upper Dharamsala, India. We report here that in a study performed there in February 1981, we found that these subjects exhibited the capacity to increase the temperature of their fingers and toes by as much as 8.3°C.

Edited February 11, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[skydog]

Sure some of it seems pretty stupid

 

Some of the "exceptionally unique wise and special all knowing" "taoists" on here seem pretty arragant/grumpy/cold etc

 

Dont most people take what they think works and discard what doesnt.

 

There is some good stuff in there too I guess. Such as following your heart, living in the world etc which is often ignored in "taoism"

Edited February 10, 2013 by sinansencer

[Friend]

Edited February 11, 2013 by Friend

[Enishi]

It's been my experience in the past that New Age teachers will speak of "New Age Teachings" derisively, as if they themselves were separate, pointing out certain flaws it carries while they too share numerous New Age traits, including the bad ones.

Some aspects of New Age memes are okay, but it's better to have solid time-tested practices and teachings as a base to build on before adding any bells and whistles.

[skydog]

Also this is like religion in some ways, seeing auras recently notice that very religious people have strong auras...religion is just a language, there is no set formula for energy to be this way or that way...

 

Some people connect very well with certain teachers because they can identify with those teachers or for some reason see them as great in some regards, it may be very similar to someone elses teacher just a different kind of language, sometimes it is not similar at all, but sometimes its quite judgemental (which I do too sometimes) to be like my teacher/method is better than yours, whats more important is the intention/energy of the individual.

 

For example one may associate buddhism with nihilism and denying life/joy another may attribute it to great freedom peace and normalness it is very individualistic based on emotional reactions and images and judgements.

Edited February 10, 2013 by sinansencer

[3bob]

K, Are you still interested in the information from the American yoga guy you posted on awhile back?

 

Anyway, who knows how many eons ago the "new age" started, thus nothing really new to it just more permutations which are to be expected in everything and or most everyone since the big bang.

[Xiaorong]

Anyway, who knows how many eons ago the "new age" started, thus nothing really new to it just more permutations which are to be expected in everything and or most everyone since the big bang.

 

This is true. If you know the history of Daoism then you can see the New Age-ness there, too. It has all the right qualifications: charismatic leaders, divine revelations, extensive borrowings from other traditions, etc. And not just the original foundations of Daoism but later developments and revelations as well. It may well be the quintessential New Age project. With many successes to show for it.

[Birch]

Punk guy? Now I recall his name, Brad Werner I think. Sure, I'm interested in all this stuff:-)

I'm finding this thread really interesting so far, thanks for all the well-considered posts!

[Birch]

"If you know the history of Daoism then you can see the New Age-ness there, too."

 

Can you point to a history of this? I've looked at the crossovers between Buddhism and Taoism and a few shifts in gods and immortals but haven't gotten into the 'New Age' bit of it. I guess you might call Black Hat Feng Shui New Age but AFAIK that has its roots in Tibetan Bön.

 

Things I'm considering 'New Age' for the purposes of this thread - or at least explaning what I 'hate' about it. I realize that the following probably cross over into other areas of cultivation practice and theory. I agree with Seeker of Self above that the differences are subtle:

 

- Intention is 'everything'

- Karma = deserving

- Everything is subjective

- Everything is vibrations

- Hierarchy of manifestation (generally translated 'higher' = good, 'lower' = bad)

- Suppression of 'negative' pole (more 'thoughts', 'feelings' than actions,...)

[nine tailed fox]

new agers are actually delusional, ignorant fluffy bunnies

 

just check any new age forum if you dont believe me

 

some of the bunnies act like they know everything and whatever others are saying is wrong

 

and they will also give you bunny hug if you dont agree with them lol

 

their bottom line is

 

"if i believe than i can do it"

 

but the irony is they actually dont know how to believe

 

if you are aspiring to become a flying man and you are seriously thinking of jumping from building to fly

 

than i will suggest you to post your wish on a new age forum

 

you will get plenty of support

 

they will tell you to just affirm this and believe that you can fly

 

keep affirming "i am flying" and you will end up flying

 

flying bunnies

[Birch]

I'm quite delusional too, but not New Age delusional AFAIK. How much does that matter? Haha. I'm interested in the differences and similarities between New Age and cultivation practices. Especially those that are harmful or helpful to the cultivator and others they are involved with. Some of what you're mentioning can be found on here as well, I've found.

[Jetsun]

There are potential positive points around more creative use of the mind and imagination coming from New Age thought, for example for most people the mind is completely dominated by the same scripts or thought forms being strengthened by repetition over and over again throughout their entire lives, but by creative use of the mind and visualisation different posibilities are created, so in a way it is like a more creative form of prayer. I personally think that a lot of these ideas may come from Esoteric Christianity in this sense that Jesus could be viewed as the ultimate manifester by producing healings and materialising things like food.

 

The problem can be that without other training in things like morality and deeper spiritual training to develop wisdom this more creative use of the mind can just be used to strengthen things like greed and self importance.

[suninmyeyes]

K said:..'Some of what you're mentioning can be found on here as well, I've found.'..

 

Yes some of it can be found on here too , agreed.

Plus there is another kind of bunny too -- hard core iron bunny of a 'purist traditional serious practicioner 'and unfelxible. Looking down on those who mix and match , pick and choose to suit their temperament better . Iron bunny does not keep in mind that there is wisdom in all times , forgetting that everything changes .

We change psychologicaly and physically therefore some spiritual approaches may evolve and change to suit current times .

 

I wouldnt know much about New Age , and always associate aliens , dolphines , angels etc with it. Not that anything is wrong with those -- just not my in depth area of exploration.

Edited February 11, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[Mokona]

nah, that would just be a trickster spirit.

Your viewpoint is most wise and informative. I can tell you have direct, in the hand experience with all sorts of ascended masters and spirits. Thank you.

[Mokona]

New Age often advertises as to fix issues instantly. While actual cultivation in my experience takes time.

 

It took me weeks to get a feel for energy around my body, other than between my palms, even longer to feel into trees. Taking longer still to open my MCO.

 

I'd see a New Age idea as being: Drink this tea, rub on this oil - and stick a crystal on your belly and your MCO will open on its own, all the while conferring powers you've never before belived. TM

[Birch]

I was just re-mulling this last post Mokona and I was wondering 'Why not?' What is is about people, what is it about cultivation methods that requires 'Time' and repetition? What about those guys who get enlightened when walking in the park?

 

I have an idea that Buddhism would have a frame/explanation for why.

[nine tailed fox]

first of all why there is no space in my posts lol, technical problem i guess

 

k i think those guys have cultivated enough in their previous lives, so they are already very close to enlightenment

 

thats why they can get enlightened while walking on a park

 

well i would like to share more, some of my experiences with new agers

 

if you ask this question on a new age forum

 

"how can i achieve enlightenment ?"

 

you will receive this answer

 

"do this affirmation daily "i am enlightened"

 

and believe that you are already enlightened, imagine how it would feel to be enlightened

 

now the thing is "enlightenment is beyond everything, its even beyond belief, intention everything

 

but new agers dont understand it and keep repeating , everything is possible

 

thats why i call them delusional

 

they dont know the context

 

you know context is everything

 

Law Of Attraction, doesnt apply in the context of enlightenment

 

you were talking about Daoism

 

i guess you probably know about microcosmic orbit

 

for new agers microcosmic orbit exercise is nothing but a belief

 

they say its all belief, if i believe that there is a microcosmic orbit, than it is there

 

new agers say that if i move my hand and believe that i am doing microcosmic orbit exercise than it will be so

 

if i believe that my third eye is on my penis, than it will be so

 

you know thats the kind of delusion they have

 

REALITY IS A MIXTURE OF ABSOLUTE AND RELATIVE BUT NEW AGERS THINK THAT EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE

 

thats what i call a delusion

 

 

[Cat Pillar]

I was just re-mulling this last post Mokona and I was wondering 'Why not?' What is is about people, what is it about cultivation methods that requires 'Time' and repetition? What about those guys who get enlightened when walking in the park? I have an idea that Buddhism would have a frame/explanation for why.

 

That frame/explanation would be past lives and/or karma. Work done in past lives would pave the way for "easier" cultivation in the present life.

 

My personal experience is that cultivation requires dedication, and that goes beyond just time and effort into the "formal" practices as well.

[RiverSnake]

In the West people are thirsty for Spirituality....very thirsty....people want to connect. But it can be difficult to connect when much of our Spiritual-Culture has been demolished throughout history and the mainstream religions really have nothing left to feed people but a set of beliefs.

 

I see the New Age movement as something similar to a baby struggling to take its first step....struggling to get up on two feet and gain some level of confidence in spirituality. IMO the difference between genuine spirituality and "false spirituality" is Sincerity and the Intensity of ones thirst.

 

There is a lot of garbage and trash in the New Age arena, and when spirituality hits a consumer based society it is definitely gonna reflect that tint and people are gonna try and profit of off others ignorance.

 

To take a Jain or Buddhist term....the community is divided into Monks, Nuns and the Layperson. Laypersons are thirsty to connect but at the same not enough to take any serious step, they are not ready for the intensity of the Path. They are content at just being in the "presence" of the spiritual which gives them a sense of security and confidence. Naturally when the laypersons get a handle on spiritual teachings without having walked the Path first much of the Depth and Knowledge of esoteric teachings is lost and Spirituality becomes cheap and shallow.....i think this is partly reflected in New Age Movement.

 

That being said i think many genuine Monks and Nuns (Yogis and Sincere Seekers) are going to emerge from the garbage and nonsense of New Age Spirituality and come out of the Path wiser and ready to convey and share genuine Spirit. Just my opinion.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited February 12, 2013 by OldGreen