Opening of the third eye and other byproducts along the way

[Spotless]

For those of you who might wish to know - ( it was just written and pasted without edit ) - part of records I have been keeping to share:

 

Week of 9/1/2015

For several weeks I am always aware of the hair on my body.

Over the past couple of days another gigantic leap - the LDT, MDT and UDT

are in flow together and I am clothed in an energy that is the skin of heaven.

A beautiful cool light warm energy surrounds my head and now my entire body.

 

The chakras and Dantiens are now felt in the connection to the spine and the links are seen quite clearly.

 

I am lite - lite like a feather - and the air is thin around me. Breath is food to this heaven body and greater participation in this is now required. What has been happening to me over the past few years is now becoming clarified.

 

Words are starting to come to me more easily though how incapable they are I know well - nothing in all that I have read has touched upon what this is like - the energy is incredibly powerful yet lite and light - so well lit!

 

Qi Gong has risen to a height that is beyond anything - it is now kundalini in powerful movement. A bone crushing electrical lightning rod of energy now distributed and exercised in full control.

 

And tonight the familiar return of telekenisis.

 

It was not until tonight that the kundalini was recognized as such - it has come to me in great and unforgettable experiences before but now it is a part of my everyday working energy - it is exquisite and horrific - capable of extreme compression and silky fine feathery lite lightness threading every nadi, sifting through this heaven body - this is so incredible.

 

Gone now so much - vanished in this waking heaven - my feet on the ground - this may sound like bliss but it does not key to me in this way - I have been walking this now for several years - lifted is another veil - in another surge that does not dissipate.

 

Endless waves of change and fear - more fear falling away. This transformation is to a new body - it is not the body of two days ago. Qi Gong is no longer a practice - it is light work - it is playing with kundalini raw let loose in a practice where it enjoys the walk and structure - the bending and compression and expansion and freedom.

 

Walking in this heaven body - vision and visions clear - flight in them in every color and at any speed. Living in the light of an Escher painting - riding on a carpet- throwing a javelin - alight on every mountain top - all this and more just sitting here or walking there.

 

Is this body walking or is that which is moving through me the appearance of walk?

Nothing takes effort - the day has no beginning and no end.

Edited September 3, 2015 by Spotless

[idiot_stimpy]

Space drifting through space.

[Spotless]

Space drifting through space.

 

This that is being experienced is grounded - there is no drifting or trance space to it. Very fully in body (bodies) with the hairs on the skin.

 

The base of the spine is now always present - in any practice or deep breath the three dan tien's are prominent and clearly connected - the whole pathway of breath is body wide - it permeates.

 

Massive transformation is taking place again in the head region and forehead - for months now the crown chakra has extended upwards and out - this new body is from this transformation - it is clearish with a pearlessencent patina set in a faint violet that appears light blue - it would appear cloud blue but translucent and glassy.

 

 

[Spotless]

Update -

 

Regarding these most recent changes:

 

It's like a big weight change and clarity fully sustained - feeling more present and vital - what a huge jump and continuing.

 

It seems like an expansion of light and a continuous reduction in content.

 

Since Awakening first happened several years ago my practice has increased - seeking stopped entirely - but practice has been intense while simple.

 

Their is nothing in this that resembles that which I sought - it does not resemble anything I could comprehend but it is not un satisfying in that it has gone far beyond anything I have read or heard. The inertia / motivations that cease are slowly replaced with another sourcing that comes to you.

 

Many years ago I hit very high levels on some mushrooms - and I vowed to attain those levels organically and beyond - I have and still those experiences were the closest in many ways to what this experience is sustained - it is also far beyond that.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Spotless

[Nikolai1]

 The inertia / motivations that cease are slowly replaced with another sourcing that comes to you.

 

Thank you for sharing your wonderful experiences! Could you say a little bit more about the above? How is this alternative source different from our usual egoic motivations? Does it feel different? is it stronger and more compelling? Really interested in how you describe it? Thanks.

[Spotless]

Thank you for sharing your wonderful experiences! Could you say a little bit more about the above? How is this alternative source different from our usual egoic motivations? Does it feel different? is it stronger and more compelling? Really interested in how you describe it? Thanks.

It is not compelling nor particularly strong by comparison in the harsh sense as in a "race against time" - but it is intuitively presented to you and manifestation becomes nearly instantaneous by comparison.

 

i was meditating everyday at one point typically starting at 3am - and at a certain point "my story", that which was identified with the various "me's" or "I's" fell away enmass. Chunks of me day after day - fear fell away as well - my life became more like a past life - no relationship to positions (such as political positions), past anger and resentments nor even current friends and family.

 

Even my relationship to my wife and son underwent a radical change - and "my" business was now this foreign thing that was owned

in this new presence of being and there was no identification with it - it was this cardboard thing to which I had no attachment.

 

For some time there was nothing in the way of motivation or inertia as I prefer to call it. Nor was there "a schedule" in my mind.

Time stopped, mind stopped - I could sit for hours and it was no different than minutes. I was not filled with wonderous thoughts and visions - my mind was silent and I was present. I might be on the way to get the mail and the phone would ring, I would answer it and then stand or sit there with no recollection as to what I was doing prior because I was now just sitting there in presence. Then as banking time approached or some other reason I would come to the idea to pick up the mail - "getting the mail" would come to me and I would pick up the mail, find a check and get in the car and arrive in time to deposit the check and then I would remember it was exactly the time I needed to pick up my son from school.

 

This is how I started to ferret out how this new way was working. I also took to writing down things I needed to do and I started to input alarms in my phone that would remind me of appointments. For some time even this was difficult because I might look at a list of things to do and begin work on it, the phone might ring and I would take the call then hang up and sit there - no inertia from the previous activity existed - I was not still "there" in the activity prior to the call - I was in "present" and so for several hours I might be occupied in something else or I might take it up the next day when I came upon the list.

 

By business luckily did not require me too much and it just sat there with the exception of shipping out items that were on order. I did not have to punch in or out nor did I have to leave the house.

 

Slowly this intuitive guiding became comfortable and I had already had considerable life experience with this form of reliance. The neutrality I was experiencing was also something I had worked on in this life but it has taken on a whole different level - as fear falls away so to does so much judgement and as positions fall away so to does so much blindness.

 

Self fascination is replaced by neutrality, some have called it "indifference" but is is more than indifference - it is a fully engaged neutrality and stillness.

 

Eventually one acclimates to this and what nearly feels like the onset of Alzheimer's dissipates and is replaced by an ease of being and reliance on the certainty that what is needed to come to ones awareness will.

 

Living in the Now in a world that lives in the past and future is the new paradigm - my wife still askes me what I plan to do tomorrow and I continue to reply "I have no plans". She may then say "well in need you to pick up Lake (our son) at 3:30" and that is duly noted or put into my phone. I may have spoken to someone regarding the next day and in fact may have some general patterns leaning towards something but until the moment circles around to that point on the dial - no plan exists - "I" am not "in" a plan.

 

I am now acclimating to a new clarity - not a clarity of mind - a clarity of being ness - the resonance in this body has taken a gigantic leap recently that I don't yet have words for. At the outset it appears to be more fear falling away.

 

I mentioned before an expansion of light and a reduction in content - I was referring to an expansion of light from within and a reduction of content (as in more and more "stuff" falling away).

 

It is a bit like a firing oven - the oven is built to house a form that needs tempering and transformation - great heat and effort goes into the firing and care is taken that the cooling process is done properly as well - and as the oven then crumbles away the form emerges. For some time it is all about the oven and the fuel - and then it is nothing about the oven and the fuel. As the bricks fall away more and more of the form emerges - the form in many ways is measured / known by what has fallen away. It will take more time to see the form for what it truly is becoming / has become/ is.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Spotless

[Nikolai1]

Hi Spotless,

 

Eventually one acclimates to this and what nearly feels like the onset of Alzheimer's dissipates and is replaced by an ease of being and reliance on the certainty that what is needed to come to ones awareness will. 

The way you are now functioning is how I imagine wu wei to be.  When even your own actions are timely and happen of their own accord without the need for effortful thinking and planning.

 

I'm still heavily in the Alzheimers phase but one thing I've noticed is how big onerous jobs that I would have really huffed and puffed about happen much more easily.  We recently moved house and lots of random boxes and stuff and junk just got dumped in the garage in order to make the house quickly livable.  Yesterday I tackled the garage and even though I worked for about four hours on it, afterwards it felt like I hadn't lifted a finger.  I felt clean and unfatigued and without any sense at al that I had spent the day unpleasantly.  In fact I had hardly any memory of really doing anything specific.

 

By the way, you have such a novel creative way of describing your life, i think you should write a book - honestly!  Spiritual biographies are always very popular reading for seekers.

 

Best wishes to you!

[Spotless]

Hi Spotless,

 

 

The way you are now functioning is how I imagine wu wei to be.  When even your own actions are timely and happen of their own accord without the need for effortful thinking and planning.

 

I'm still heavily in the Alzheimers phase but one thing I've noticed is how big onerous jobs that I would have really huffed and puffed about happen much more easily.  We recently moved house and lots of random boxes and stuff and junk just got dumped in the garage in order to make the house quickly livable.  Yesterday I tackled the garage and even though I worked for about four hours on it, afterwards it felt like I hadn't lifted a finger.  I felt clean and unfatigued and without any sense at al that I had spent the day unpleasantly.  In fact I had hardly any memory of really doing anything specific.

 

By the way, you have such a novel creative way of describing your life, i think you should write a book - honestly!  Spiritual biographies are always very popular reading for seekers.

 

Best wishes to you!

 

Your description of the garage work is precisely the way it felt and feels to me and exactly the way I "hardly" have any memory of it.

And thank you for your questions and encouragement - I have been assembling a book for some time but nearly all of the writing I have done recently has been here.

[Tibetan_Ice]

I don't think Alzheimer's classifies as enlightenment...

 

https://thesevenworlds.wordpress.com/2013/11/21/the-ten-fetters/

 

Golden Fetter THE TEN FETTERS

By the Wanderling

 

In Buddhist lore, prior to his Enlightenment, while sitting under the Bodhi Tree, Siddhārtha Gautama was confronted by Mara, the Evil One, who sent ten temptors in an effort to stop him from reaching Enlightenment. As it has come down to us the temptors have been presented as manifested personifications, angels, or spiritual entities and given names as any person might. However, over time the names of each so named have come to represent the temptations to be overcome for any who may so choose to follow the Buddhist path to Enlightenment. Originally The Ten Chief Sins in their personifications, they are, or least their names and the temptations so endowed, are now represented in The Ten Fetters.

 

The following is an exploration of The Ten Fetters claimed by the Buddha specifically and Buddhism generally as standing in the way of Enlightenment:

 

1. Sakkaya-ditthi is translated as “personality belief.” This is the belief that we are solid beings, which leads to the illusion of a separate self, egoism, or individuality. This is a major obstacle to spiritual progress. Not only are we attached to the idea of self, we even glorify it. Conceit, arrogance, pride, self-abasement. Attachment to idea of “I” is fundamental to all problems; we defend the idea of I, we seek to cherish I, make a fuss of it. It is difficult to be entirely free from idea of self (Anatta), but at least do not take the five aggregates as self.

 

2. Vicikiccha means “skeptical doubt.” In particular, doubt about (a) the Buddha, ( the Dhamma, © the Sangha, (d) the disciplinary rules, (e) the past (for example, “What have I been in the past?”), (f) the future (for example, “What shall I be in the future?”), (g) both the past and the future (for example, “From what state to what state shall I change in the future?”, “Who am I?”, “What am I?”, “How am I?”, etc.), (h) the doctrine of dependent origination. The Buddha said that this kind of doubt is like being lost in a desert without a map. Vicikiccha is typically listed as the fifth of The Five Hindrances.

 

3. Silabbata Paramasa means “adherence to wrongful rites, rituals and ceremonies”…in the mistaken belief that purification can be achieved simply by their performance. Examples are the extreme ascetic practices condemned by the Buddha. Also at that time, the Brahmins had developed very complicated rituals which only they could carry out and which meant that the rest of the population had to ask the Brahmins for perform all the religious ceremonies on their behalf. “Oneself is one’s own master. Who else can be the master?” (Dhp. v. 160).

 

The Buddha said that neither the repetition of holy scriptures, nor self-torture, nor sleeping on the ground, nor the repetition of prayers, penances, hymns, charms, mantras, incantations and invocations can bring us the real happiness of Nirvana. Instead the Buddha emphasized the importance of making individual effort in order to achieve our spiritual goals. He likened it to a man wanting to cross a river; sitting down and praying will not suffice, but he must make the effort to build a raft or a bridge.

The Buddha was talking to one of his prominent lay-disciples, called Anathapindika and said, “There are, O householder, five desirable, pleasant and agreeable things which are rare in the world. What are those five? They are long life, beauty, happiness, fame and rebirth in the heavens. But of these five things, O householder, I do not teach that they are to be obtained by prayer or by vows. If one could obtain them by prayer or vows, who would not do it?

 

“For a noble disciple who wishes to have long life, it is not befitting that he should pray for long life or take delight in so doing. He should rather follow a path of life that is conducive to longevity.” (Anguttara Nikaya V, 43) He goes on to recommend the same course of action in respect of the other four desirable things.

 

4. Kama-raga, also kamacchandra, means “sensual desire.” This is one of the roots of Tanha which is at the heart of all our problems with Dukkha. After we experience Dukkha we latch onto something. But what we latch on to has nothing to do with the Dukkha. What comes up is called in Sanskrit Samudaya. Desire, as Tanha, is a “Daughter of Mara,” one of the first three temptors unleashed by Mara, The Personification of Evil, to entice the future Buddha into abandoning his quest for Enlightenemnt. Also considered one of The Three Poisons and the first of The Five Hindrances

 

Equally as significant this same hindrance is Number One at the top of the list of the Patimokka, the 227 Rules to be observed by members of the Buddhist Order. Out of the 227 rules it is one of ONLY four, called the Parajikas, that if breached incurs explusion from the order for life. If you think Buddhism takes it lightly take some time to read Parajikas. Buddhism might not be your cup of tea.

 

5. Patigha, also vyapada, The literal meaning of this term is “to hit against,” but it is often translated into English as “ill-will or hatred.” This is the cause of conflict both on an individual basis, and between nations as well. As Arati, aversion, another of the “Three Daughters of Mara” initally unleashed by Mara. Hatred is one of The Three Poisons as well as the second of The Five Hindrances.

 

6. Rupa-raga is “attachment to the form realms.” It is a fetter when it continues to bind one to the Samsaric world. When overcome it is similar to Patanjali’s samprajnata samadhi. Samprajnata-samadhi incorporates the first four of the Eight Jhana States within its scope, which when overcome, often through entry level Access Concentration, can lead to the eradication of The Five Hindrances, a major step toward liberation. As lust, Raga is also considered one of “Three Daughters of Mara” originally unleashed.

 

7. Arupa-raga is “attachment to the formless realms.” It remains a fetter impeding liberation if the attachment is not breached. When breached it is similar to Patanjali’s asamprajnata samadhi. Asamprajnata-samadhi incorporates the last four Jhanas within its scope. Asamprajnata-samadhi is sometimes known in Vedanta circles as Nirvikalpa-samadhi. The Buddha surpassed this fetter under the Bodhi Tree on the night of his Enlightenment through Insight (Vipassana Meditation).

 

8. Mana literally this means “measuring” and is often translated as “conceit, arrogance, self-assertion or pride,” but measuring is a better term because it means all forms of evaluation. Feeling oneself to be superior to others (the superiority complex) is indeed a form a conceit. But mana also includes measuring in the sense of judging oneself to be inferior to others (the inferiority complex) and also equal to others. Even in spiritual matters, e.g. how many do you observe precepts? how long do you sit for meditation? Certainly we are all different, but it is not helpful to engage in comparisons between oneself and others.

 

9. Uddhacca means “restlessness.” It is the confused, distracted, restless state of mind, in which there is no tranquillity or peace. It has been defined as, “the excitement of mind which is disturbance, agitation of the heart, turmoil of mind.” (Dhammasangani 429). It is the opposite of one-pointedness. Number four of The Five Hindrances.

 

10. Avijja is translated as “ignorance,” but this is ignorance in a special sense. It does not mean ignorance as it is used in the everyday sense, but it means specifically ignorance of the Four Noble Truths and the delusion which prevents us from seeing the real nature of impermanence and Dukkha. Last of of The Three Poisons.

 

The first five Fetters are known as Lower Fetters (orambhagiya-samyojana) because they bind us to the sensuous world. The second five Fetters are known as Higher Fetters (uddhambhagiya-samyojana) because they bind us to the rupa and arupa worlds (see #6 and 7 above).

 

These Fetters can be eradicated in four stages, what we call The Four Stages of Sainthood. When a Fetter has been eradicated, this is permanent, it does not come back again. One who has eradicated the first three Fetters is a Sotapanna, Stream Enterer. He has had a glimpse of Nirvana, like someone walking in the foothills of a mountain has a glimpse of the top of the mountain through the clouds. He has entered the stream that leads to Nirvana. He has complete confidence in the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha, and perfect moral conduct.

 

The next stage of sainthood is a Sakadagami, Once Returner, which is marked by the reduction of the next two Fetters. They are not yet eradicated, but are suppressed.

 

When these two Fetters are completely eradicated, then the third stage has been reached. This is a Anãgãmi, Non Returner.

 

The last stage is the Arahat, and is marked by the eradication of the last five Fetters. This state is not restricted by age, sex or social status. It is open to lay people as well as ordained monks. The Arahant will continue to live for his body’s natural span, but he has eradicated all craving which binds ordinary people to the process of rebirth. Remember:

 

The Arahat creates no new Karma; he has gone beyond both good and evil, but he must still live with the Karmic effects of his previous actions.

 

But when the life in the body eventually passes away the Arahat has to die just like anyone else. One can summarize this state by saying that it is freedom of suffering, it is the destruction or Death of the Ego and the eradication of greed, hatred and delusion.

 

In the Ratana Sutta is says: “Their past is dead, the new no more arises, Mind to future becoming is unattached, The germ has died. They have no more desire for growth. Those wise (and steadfast ones) go out as died this lamp.” (Sutta Nipata, 14)

 

To summarize: Although Nirvana may be defined as the end of craving, it is NOT a conditioned state, it is not the result of anything. The direct nature of the Buddha’s teaching is focused solely on the cessation of dukkha. The eradication of the Ten Fetters leads through The Four Stages of Sainthood to the ultimate goal of all Buddhist practice, which is the realization of Nirvana and thus then Sunyata. The way which leads to this realization is called the Eightfold Noble Path.

 

The eradication of the Ten Fetters or the mind being ripe sets the stage for total transformation. All of it can be a long drawn out process or it can transpire in an instant — or a combination of the two. Re: the Buddha at Vulture Peak holding up the flower and the Venerable Mahakashyapa’s Attainment thereof via a “Transmission” of sort. Enlightenment occured for Mahakashyapa through a sudden flash of insight and not through a gradual process of reasoning.

 

 

[Spotless]

I wish you well TI - you reached this state once and found it boring - and you appear to fully enjoy what you have regarded as treasure in its place. You see but do not see and hear but do not hear and you quote like no one on earth:)

Edited September 8, 2015 by Spotless

[Nikolai1]

The pitfall of trying to write in a fresh and arresting way about the spiritual life, is that you are going to contradict the scriptures.  Or, more accurately, you will be read by people who don't have te eyes to see the similarity between what you and the scriptures are saying.

 

And...your editor won't let you liken it to Alzheimers because it's not politically correct, and the Alzheimers Society will write you open letters in the press inviting you to one of their care homes because you seem to be under a misapprehension about the reality.

 

That's Life!

Edited September 8, 2015 by Nikolai1

[Brian]

I find Mana a real challenge.

 

Thank you for this thread, spotless -- it is helpful.

[Jeff]

I wish you well TI - you reached this state once and found it boring - and you appear to fully enjoy what you have regarded as treasure in its place. You see but do not see and hear but do not hear and you quote like no one on earth:)

 

While TI and I have disagreed on many issues, he raises a very good point. Many traditions (like Buddhism) see awakening/enlightenment differently as what you have described.

 

Best wishes.

 

[Nikolai1]

While TI and I have disagreed on many issues, he raises a very good point. Many traditions (like Buddhism) see awakening/enlightenment differently as what you have described. Best wishes.

Could you point anything that Spotless has written that is in disagreement with the Buddhist tradition of awakening? 

[Jeff]

Could you point anything that Spotless has written that is in disagreement with the Buddhist tradition of awakening? 

 

In the Dzogchen teachings the primordial state of the base is not defined only as being void, but is explained as having three aspects or characteristics, called the "three primordial wisdoms": essence, nature, and energy.

(Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State).  

 

In the Heart Sutra, this is also why it is described as the realization of emptiness is when one knows that both Form = Emptiness and also Emptiness = Form, and that both are the same thing. The "quiet mind" state is the Form increasingly going into emptiness, or the Dzogchen concept of "essence". In simple terms, it is saying that the primordial state is not simply the space between two thoughts.  It is over this point that Buddha described something different than the classical Hindu/yoga position with the "cessation" concept.

 

In traditions like Kashmir Shivaism, it is described like this...

 

In Saivism, purusa is not a realized soul. Purusa tattva is bound and limited just as ahamkara tattva is. The only difference between purusa and ahamkara is that purusa is connected with subjectivity and ahamkara is connected with objectivity. And this purusa is entangled and bound in five ways, which are the five kancukas: niyati, kala, raga, vidya, and kala.

(The Secret Supreme)

 

Best wishes.

[manitou]

I don't think Alzheimer's classifies as enlightenment...

 

https://thesevenworlds.wordpress.com/2013/11/21/the-ten-fetters/

 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder about this, lol.  It's almost like a gift to us from the ethers, this losing the memory thing.

 

I am in the early stages of dementia - okay, maybe the middle.  My mom is full blown dementia and living in assisted living for that reason.

 

I find that my story is less and less important to me;  many memories are leaving me.  I have much trouble with short term memory.

 

But the wonderful thing is, that this is forcing me to stay Present.  If I am in Presence (or alternatively, if I Am a Presence) the short term memory is not a problem - that's because I am focusing all my attention on what I am doing, where I am going....or fully listening to another without my dialogue going on in my own head, thinking about how I am going to respond.

 

I do think some of these benefits have derived from years of meditation and study.  But I also believe part of this to be the natural progression of the slowing down of my brain.  I think of it this way:  the Power that Be Within Me hasn't brought me along this path so many years only to end up in a looney bin.  I must trust that there is a purposeful dynamic that will be served by the presence of the more muddled brain.

 

As I think of it, wasn't the sage rather muddle-minded, nebulous, not-knowing?

[Spotless]

The pitfall of trying to write in a fresh and arresting way about the spiritual life, is that you are going to contradict the scriptures. Or, more accurately, you will be read by people who don't have te eyes to see the similarity between what you and the scriptures are saying.

 

And...your editor won't let you liken it to Alzheimers because it's not politically correct, and the Alzheimers Society will write you open letters in the press inviting you to one of their care homes because you seem to be under a misapprehension about the reality.

 

That's Life!

I did not liken it to "Alzheimer's" nor was I editing for political correctness - that was TI's goading.

 

I simply made a reference to just how much time ceases - one is really in the Now - this expresses itself in a sort of non-mind non-driven no inertia stillness in the moment. From one moment to the next there is no inertia - the last moment is not carried forward in the fist of mind - so a departure from what one is doing is a departure - you do not then think to go back to what you were doing before say an interruption. (and this changes as one settles - it is not quit the same now as it was 4/5 years ago)

 

What I did try to say in reference to Alzhiemers is that as one is confronted with this Awakened state one looses ones mind in many respects - and in fact it can occur to one that perhaps one is in fact having some problems in this regard. Again, the translations we receive are so far removed from this sort of explaination that they are unintelligible to the lay reader not having attained Awakening.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

In the Dzogchen teachings the primordial state of the base is not defined only as being void, but is explained as having three aspects or characteristics, called the "three primordial wisdoms": essence, nature, and energy.

(Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State).  

 

In the Heart Sutra, this is also why it is described as the realization of emptiness is when one knows that both Form = Emptiness and also Emptiness = Form, and that both are the same thing. The "quiet mind" state is the Form increasingly going into emptiness, or the Dzogchen concept of "essence". In simple terms, it is saying that the primordial state is not simply the space between two thoughts.  It is over this point that Buddha described something different than the classical Hindu/yoga position with the "cessation" concept.

 

In traditions like Kashmir Shivaism, it is described like this...

 

In Saivism, purusa is not a realized soul. Purusa tattva is bound and limited just as ahamkara tattva is. The only difference between purusa and ahamkara is that purusa is connected with subjectivity and ahamkara is connected with objectivity. And this purusa is entangled and bound in five ways, which are the five kancukas: niyati, kala, raga, vidya, and kala.

(The Secret Supreme)

 

Best wishes.

 

So many words that are not from our tradition - that of English.

I could give a thousand quotes to support what I have written from any tradition of the east you would like but they are far to simple compared to the exactness you appear to require.

 

Please let us know who in the West would qualify in your eyes and what you perceive to be the eyes of the traditions you quote from.

 

I am speaking only of the Awakened state - it is the entering of a state of Enlightening.

 

Beyond that I make no claims nor do I wish to make any claims at all - but unlike someone on the shore never having plunged into the water and debating on what it is like and when one is actually swimming and not merely floating along - I am in the buoyant waters and of this there is no doubt.

 

From the Diamond sutra:

 

"Rely upon that mind which alights upon nothing whatsoever"

 

[Spotless]

While TI and I have disagreed on many issues, he raises a very good point. Many traditions (like Buddhism) see awakening/enlightenment differently as what you have described.

 

Best wishes.

I do not think they "see" it differently but it may be that my descriptions have fallen painfully short of the mark.

 

Try to find a few hundred Buddhist quotes that support what I have written and you will find them at the drop of a hat.

 

Speaking of this is at best trying to veer others into some recognition of what they are trying to convey. Some are technicians, some artists, some philosophers - all walks of life. Many great teachers appear to contradict themselves and or their own traditions - it is like a Koan - how to jerk your head out into the air - flip you upon yourself - make a tired teaching fresh.

 

The technicians put to much under hat and the mind fist grabs onto them. The students become fundamentalists - "this is how it is - the great and wise Grand NutsandBolts has stated this and thus it is so and I have understood what he has said"

Edited September 8, 2015 by Spotless

[gendao]

Sometimes I wonder about this, lol. It's almost like a gift to us from the ethers, this losing the memory thing.

 

I am in the early stages of dementia - okay, maybe the middle. My mom is full blown dementia and living in assisted living for that reason.

 

I find that my story is less and less important to me; many memories are leaving me. I have much trouble with short term memory.

 

But the wonderful thing is, that this is forcing me to stay Present. If I am in Presence (or alternatively, if I Am a Presence) the short term memory is not a problem - that's because I am focusing all my attention on what I am doing, where I am going....or fully listening to another without my dialogue going on in my own head, thinking about how I am going to respond.

 

I do think some of these benefits have derived from years of meditation and study. But I also believe part of this to be the natural progression of the slowing down of my brain. I think of it this way: the Power that Be Within Me hasn't brought me along this path so many years only to end up in a looney bin. I must trust that there is a purposeful dynamic that will be served by the presence of the more muddled brain.

 

As I think of it, wasn't the sage rather muddle-minded, nebulous, not-knowing?

It may also be possible that the suppression of traumatic memories, especially sexual ones, may have caused blockages in the kidneys - which supply the marrow (including brain) with jing. This selective amnesia then eventually becomes full-blown amnesia as time wears on and less and less jing reaches the brain. Also note that some of this trauma may be generationally inherited and not even necessarily from your own lifetime.

Kidney Jing produces Marrow, which generates spinal cord and "fills up" brain: therefore Kidney has relationship with brain. Strong Jing nourishes brain and memory/concentration, etc. will be good.

Jing inadequate to nourish the brain: poor memory and concentration, dull thinking.

By contrast, a true sage is so clearheaded that he is "transparently" empty.

Edited September 8, 2015 by gendao

[Jeff]

So many words that are not from our tradition - that of English. I could give a thousand quotes to support what I have written from any tradition of the east you would like but they are far to simple compared to the exactness you appear to require. Please let us know who in the West would qualify in your eyes and what you perceive to be the eyes of the traditions you quote from. I am speaking only of the Awakened state - it is the entering of a state of Enlightening. Beyond that I make no claims nor do I wish to make any claims at all - but unlike someone on the shore never having plunged into the water and debating on what it is like and when one is actually swimming and not merely floating along - I am in the buoyant waters and of this there is no doubt. From the Diamond sutra: "Rely upon that mind which alights upon nothing whatsoever"

 

Happy to hear that you are in "buoyant waters".  Enjoy.

 

Also, I do not see how picking some person would be helpful as people have different impressions (attachments/aversions) to the individuals. But, maybe it would be helpful to explain what happens at the mind and chakra levels to better describe the difference.

 

Each chakra is sort of like a layer in the mind. When a chakra is open, that layer of mind is part of the conscious mind, when not, it is still part of the subconscious mind.  When there is some major mental crisis, it is common that can be a step to opening a new layer or chakra level.  When such a new level on consciousness is opened, it is kind of like going into a higher altitude and one does not yet have the oxygen (or mental energy) to support those higher levels.  The mind needs to continue to clear away issues and obstructions at that layer, but since the activity is still subconscious for the person, at the mind level it appears to be dead/quiet.  As the person get used to the level, they can begin to regain discernment, but some instead choose to both mentally and sometimes literally stay in a cave, because they prefer the silence to the previous mental suffering.  This hanging in bliss/quiet is the cessation that Buddha warns about.

 

This type of thing can often happen at both the opening of the 4th and 7th chakras (Hindu 7 chakra framework).  The opening of the 4th because there is now a much larger heart space after moving consciousness from the 3rd and one's strong sense of self. The 7th because now one has more directly connected to the "divine" and has dramatically higher flows streaming into the conscious mind and the energy can easily overwhelm the local mind processes for a while.

[Jetsun]

Happy to hear that you are in "buoyant waters".  Enjoy.

 

Also, I do not see how picking some person would be helpful as people have different impressions (attachments/aversions) to the individuals. But, maybe it would be helpful to explain what happens at the mind and chakra levels to better describe the difference.

 

Each chakra is sort of like a layer in the mind. When a chakra is open, that layer of mind is part of the conscious mind, when not, it is still part of the subconscious mind.  When there is some major mental crisis, it is common that can be a step to opening a new layer or chakra level.  When such a new level on consciousness is opened, it is kind of like going into a higher altitude and one does not yet have the oxygen (or mental energy) to support those higher levels.  The mind needs to continue to clear away issues and obstructions at that layer, but since the activity is still subconscious for the person, at the mind level it appears to be dead/quiet.  As the person get used to the level, they can begin to regain discernment, but some instead choose to both mentally and sometimes literally stay in a cave, because they prefer the silence to the previous mental suffering.  This hanging in bliss/quiet is the cessation that Buddha warns about.

 

This type of thing can often happen at both the opening of the 4th and 7th chakras (Hindu 7 chakra framework).  The opening of the 4th because there is now a much larger heart space after moving consciousness from the 3rd and one's strong sense of self. The 7th because now one has more directly connected to the "divine" and has dramatically higher flows streaming into the conscious mind and the energy can easily overwhelm the local mind processes for a while.

 

This isn't how Buddhism or many other traditions would describe awakening either

[Jeff]

This isn't how Buddhism or many other traditions would describe awakening either

I was not describing awakening with the above.

 

On the awakening definitional difference, see the earlier post - #196.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Jeff

[Jetsun]

I was not describing awakening with the above.

 

On the awakening definitional difference, see the earlier post - #196.

 

Well you are describing how the opening of chakras and chakra levels is related to awakening. This has nothing to do with how Buddhism decsribes awakening

[Jeff]

Well you are describing how the opening of chakras and chakra levels is related to awakening. This has nothing to do with how Buddhism decsribes awakening

I agree that it does not go with the Buddhist concept of awakening (or realizing emptiness). In #196, I stated per nicholai's request...

 

In the Dzogchen teachings the primordial state of the base is not defined only as being void, but is explained as having three aspects or characteristics, called the "three primordial wisdoms": essence, nature, and energy.

(Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State).

 

In the Heart Sutra, this is also why it is described as the realization of emptiness is when one knows that both Form = Emptiness and also Emptiness = Form, and that both are the same thing. The "quiet mind" state is the Form increasingly going into emptiness, or the Dzogchen concept of "essence". In simple terms, it is saying that the primordial state is not simply the space between two thoughts. It is over this point that Buddha described something different than the classical Hindu/yoga position with the "cessation" concept.

 

In traditions like Kashmir Shivaism, it is described like this...

 

In Saivism, purusa is not a realized soul. Purusa tattva is bound and limited just as ahamkara tattva is. The only difference between purusa and ahamkara is that purusa is connected with subjectivity and ahamkara is connected with objectivity. And this purusa is entangled and bound in five ways, which are the five kancukas: niyati, kala, raga, vidya, and kala.

(The Secret Supreme)

 

Best wishes.

Spotless then stated that the above was the same as he had been describing with his previous descriptions and examples of awakened individuals and asked for specific individuals, which I did not see as helpful (as described in my earlier post), so I tried to explain how things like the "quiet mind" happen in simple terms.

 

As I have stated from the beginning, I am simply trying to point out that not all traditions have the same definition/concept on awakening. What Spotless defines fits very well with the Hindu/yoga concept, but as stated above it is not awakening in some other tradition terms (like Buddhism). Quiet mind is not the realization of emptiness (or the primordial state). That is why tantric Buddhism has completion stage practices and Dzogchen has guru/Yidam practices.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Jeff