Opening of the third eye and other byproducts along the way

[C T]

That is why tantric Buddhism has completion stage practices and Dzogchen has guru/Yidam practices.

Jeff, your statement above is inaccurate. 

 

Buddhist tantra refers to the paths of Maha, Anu & Ati (Dzogchen), and all three comprise of generation and completion stages, as well as guru yoga. 

 

As for yidam practice, a concised explanation is given by Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche: 

 

"When we consider all the great masters of the Indian and Tibetan traditions, we find that in every case, their accomplishment came about through their practice of a yidam. They chose a deity and guarded that practice like their very life force, and on the basis of that complete commitment to the path of deity yoga, they practised the stage of generation, the stage of completion, and integrated these arriving at their final realisation of complete accomplishment and enlightenment. 

 

In the Nyingma tradition, all the great vidyadharas have had a main yidam deity which they practised."

 

No Buddhist tantric path can be authentic without yidam practice as it is one of the three roots: Lama, yidam & khandro. Only when all three are present in one's practice can complete fruition be attained. 

[Jeff]

Jeff, your statement above is inaccurate. 

 

Buddhist tantra refers to the paths of Maha, Anu & Ati (Dzogchen), and all three comprise of generation and completion stages, as well as guru yoga. 

 

As for yidam practice, a concised explanation is given by Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche: 

 

"When we consider all the great masters of the Indian and Tibetan traditions, we find that in every case, their accomplishment came about through their practice of a yidam. They chose a deity and guarded that practice like their very life force, and on the basis of that complete commitment to the path of deity yoga, they practised the stage of generation, the stage of completion, and integrated these arriving at their final realisation of complete accomplishment and enlightenment. 

 

In the Nyingma tradition, all the great vidyadharas have had a main yidam deity which they practised."

 

No Buddhist tantric path can be authentic without yidam practice as it is one of the three roots: Lama, yidam & khandro. Only when all three are present in one's practice can complete fruition be attained. 

 

I apologize if I have created any confusion with that one line. I had meant Yidam to be broader and only differentiate Dzogchen with the guru part. I obviously mistyped using the small screen of my phone.

 

More broadly, do you see the "going blank" as described by the many examples as the same as awakening into emptiness (or the primordial state)?

[Spotless]

I apologize if I have created any confusion with that one line. I had meant Yidam to be broader and only differentiate Dzogchen with the guru part. I obviously mistyped using the small screen of my phone.

 

More broadly, do you see the "going blank" as described by the many examples as the same as awakening into emptiness (or the primordial state)?

 

"going blank"?

 

Who has referred to this? In what thread - I don't remember anyone speaking of it here.

 

By the way - who do you offer up as a Western example?

 

[Spotless]

Jeff - it appears that you may be referring to the Awakening I have described as "going blank". I apologize for such gross neglect regarding the wonderful aspects - though all of the aspects were wonderful from where we sit - I was expounding on the "confusing" newness of the situation.

 

I neglected to mention that the reason for wanting to just sit - is because of the astounding beauty and stillness. The exquisite feelings and the naturalness of being. The tremendous clarity in Now - even the beautiful sounds and the breath and everything is what you are - even the rug is alive.

 

I have spoken of this somewhat frequently - nothing in anything I have spoken of regarding this should have brought you to think "going blank" - though the awareness I have described is not filled with noise and the mind is not holding in a fist the positions that were once so sacred to it.

The identifications with ones story are "as though they were from a past life" - this is clarity because in neutrality and an un held mind it becomes the nothing and non-personal that it is. The "My Story" is no longer held as "mine" - but it is not a decision to release this - it is gone.

 

I tried to point out the removal of time - actually time and space - hard things to get across - apparently harder than I thought - your take on what I have been elucidating is so far from the mark that I promise to try harder - did others get this impression of "gone blank"?

 

I am pointing out what other Westerners have pointed out - the loss of time - being in the Now.

The experience is entirely different than one would think - and amid the great clarity it is confusing in an un-confusing way - it is not scary - fear is pretty much gone - it is not worry some - it takes time to acclimate to intuition on this level. in the mean time - closing ones eyes (or keeping them open) and just sitting is divine - and for some time it is what one will do frequently.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

Somewhere in here I have described how when driving and coming to a stoplight - I need to remember not to close my eyes - because I will invariably be awakened to honking horns. The feelings are so fine and exquisite and sometimes I just close my eyes - my foot has no problem maintaining the brake - but I am in the now and with my eyes close nothing prompts me to open my eyes (time is not passing- the light no longer exists - and when it changes I do not see the change (though sometimes now I am aware of it changing).

 

It is important for Awakened westerners to share these initial experience in terms that will be helpful to those arriving at these stages.

We have plenty of words from the Eastern traditions but they don't include toilet paper and dishes. Every Western Awakened teacher that I have heard recorded tells of this confusion/ transition/timeless - newness period. Echart Tolle, Adyshanti and every well known Awakened teacher out there. A great number are floored by it - and seek counsel - they have no idea what to make of it.

 

On one account the person was certain they were having a heart attack - then they passed out and awoke and everything was aglow with a sort of golden patina - and everything was alive - even the plastic plants. It took 2 years before he could leave the house without bursting into tears because everything was "All" and the beauty was overwhelming. We have all heard the "everything" stuff and we have all hear the "beautiful" stuff - but we have not hear the "couldn't leave the house for two years without bursting into tears" stuff.

 

To many of us become fundamentalists from reading to many eastern accounts, too many books and too little practice. We study so much we have jailed in our minds with a head fist on our studies and we are now Fundamentalists in the worst sense of the word - close minded "this is the only way" types.

 

It is a false teacher or a bad translation that teaches only one way - and it is a fool who places all bets on their interpretation of someone else's words.

 

But we rarely ask questions - we would rather joust.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Spotless

[C T]

I apologize if I have created any confusion with that one line. I had meant Yidam to be broader and only differentiate Dzogchen with the guru part. I obviously mistyped using the small screen of my phone. More broadly, do you see the "going blank" as described by the many examples as the same as awakening into emptiness (or the primordial state)?

I have only been reading bits and pieces so far, therefore cannot ascertain if there were comparisons made between awakening and 'going blank'. If indeed there were, its not unusual. However, i can say for certain than awakening from the Vajrayana perspective is a very dynamic process, as opposed to showing and/or experiencing withdrawal symptoms. The images of Padmasambhava epitomises this, with that 'gaze', eyes wide open, totally alive, and very much present. There is also a clip somewhere on YT which shows Tibetan yogis in various absorption phases, and it shows how their eyes seem to indicate that very 'awakeness' spoken about here.

 

A small but significant sign of accomplished meditation masters from the East is the reduced need to blink. Not sure about their Western counterparts. Apparently this is a natural response to indicate increased non-dual awareness, or in the case of this thread, a byproduct of third-eye sight. 

[Nikolai1]

Hi spotless

 

I neglected to mention that the reason for wanting to just sit - is because of the astounding beauty and stillness. The exquisite feelings and the naturalness of being. The tremendous clarity in Now - even the beautiful sounds and the breath and everything is what you are - even the rug is alive.

Yes, when the mind is given the opportunity to go still it can perceive animation - vitality - in anything.  Last night I was walking back through the village in a very peaceful state of mind. It wasn't quite dark but the car headlights were on and the slightly smoky air (people are burning their leaves a lot) refracted the car light beams, and made them so intricate they were like suns you could look at.  It was mesmerising.  

 

Then one of the cars indicated onto the road I was just crossing.  The slow blink of the orange light seemed ponderous and deliberate.  It was like a old person tapping out the beat of an old slow waltz, fractionally mis-timing the odd flash.  And seeing this made me feel the indicator was adorable and venerable.  Just a flashing orange light! - but it presented itself to me as something animate and alive and doing me a favour and therefore worthy of love.

 

Whether something is conscious and alive, or dead and inert, depends on us and our state of mind.  The liifeless stone is the symbol of our own lack of awareness...actually the stone IS our lack of awareness.  If one thinks a stone is dead and nothing then that means you yourself are dead to the exact same degree!  The corpse itself is alive and kicking!

 

Anyway, I look forward to more of your really enlightening posts.

[Jeff]

"going blank"?

 

Who has referred to this? In what thread - I don't remember anyone speaking of it here.

 

By the way - who do you offer up as a Western example?

 

Hi Spotless,

 

I apologize that I have distracted from your thread and your sharing of your perspective on awakening/enlightening. As stated earlier, I was only trying to point out that some traditions have a different "bar" and we simply seem to disagree on the topic. I do not wish to get into any debate on who I believe is awakened or not. It is not my place to make such judgements.

 

Best,

Jeff

[manitou]

As to going blank - I can really relate to that.  I've gotten to the point of no-thought, even while being out and about.  There is no dialogue going on in the head - no judgment or criticism, as opposed to my prior thought process.  It was very judgmental, and being without judgment of others  is a wonderful freedom.  There is no worrying about any problems in the future.  It is all Now, as you say, Spotless.

 

And in this state can be felt unconditional love for everyone and everything.  We must just take ourselves out of the equation.  Remove time, as you said.  This has taken a lifetime of work for me.

[Jetsun]

I would say the majority of people who talk about awakening don't equate it with traditional definitions of enlightenment from ancient traditions.

 

Yet they call it awakening because the experience of it is like waking up out of a dream. The dream is their life before awakening, which is seen as unreal or imaginary. Eckhart Tolle worked as a psychotherapist but after awakening he couldn't take it seriously because he saw all the complaints people had about their lives weren't real. So there was a definite shift of before and after for people like Tolle and many others who talk about similar experiences.  

[Nikolai1]

 Eckhart Tolle worked as a psychotherapist but after awakening he couldn't take it seriously because he saw all the complaints people had about their lives weren't real.

Are you sure about this? I have never heard that Tolle was a therapist.  Do you have a reference?

 

Interestingly I used to be a therapist and I had to quit for exactly the same reasons.  I saw very clearly that my role was actually reinforcing their belief in their problem, a problem that was nowhere except in their belief.

[dwai]

Somewhere in here I have described how when driving and coming to a stoplight - I need to remember not to close my eyes - because I will invariably be awakened to honking horns. The feelings are so fine and exquisite and sometimes I just close my eyes - my foot has no problem maintaining the brake - but I am in the now and with my eyes close nothing prompts me to open my eyes (time is not passing- the light no longer exists - and when it changes I do not see the change (though sometimes now I am aware of it changing).

 

It is important for Awakened westerners to share these initial experience in terms that will be helpful to those arriving at these stages.

We have plenty of words from the Eastern traditions but they don't include toilet paper and dishes. Every Western Awakened teacher that I have heard recorded tells of this confusion/ transition/timeless - newness period. Echart Tolle, Adyshanti and every well known Awakened teacher out there. A great number are floored by it - and seek counsel - they have no idea what to make of it.

 

On one account the person was certain they were having a heart attack - then they passed out and awoke and everything was aglow with a sort of golden patina - and everything was alive - even the plastic plants. It took 2 years before he could leave the house without bursting into tears because everything was "All" and the beauty was overwhelming. We have all heard the "everything" stuff and we have all hear the "beautiful" stuff - but we have not hear the "couldn't leave the house for two years without bursting into tears" stuff.

 

To many of us become fundamentalists from reading to many eastern accounts, too many books and too little practice. We study so much we have jailed in our minds with a head fist on our studies and we are now Fundamentalists in the worst sense of the word - close minded "this is the only way" types.

 

It is a false teacher or a bad translation that teaches only one way - and it is a fool who places all bets on their interpretation of someone else's words.

 

But we rarely ask questions - we would rather joust.

I think all the signs of "awakening" are in the ancient Eastern literature. Usually Westerners suffer because they can't let go of their entrenched framework of categorization. Or in other words, they want to have their cakes and eat them too

 

Of course I'm not saying that it could not be a shortcoming on part of the teacher. But the DIY culture is so deeply entrenched in the West, and the propensity for "I don't need anyone to show me anything" is so strong, that in my opinion, it becomes a case of self-flagellation in most cases.

 

I will give you an example. One of my friends is a long term Taiji practitioner and a very high level one at that (far more accomplished than myself). He practices taiji every day, meditates every day, several hours a day and is very powerful and connected to energy. But for years he has this "problem" - when he starts practice he starts hearing a strong wind chime like sound going off in his ear and it stays constantly. He told me about this recently. This is called Anahata dhwani in Yogic parlance, or the "unstruck sounds". And is associated with the Anahata chakra (Heart chakra). Since he didn't have access to/didn't know where to look, he lived for years struggling to understand what was happening to him. Once he heard that, he got a sense of resolution that it wasn't an aberration in the way he practiced etc but just a phenomenon along the path of"awakening".

 

All this information is available in the spiritual texts of the Eastern societies. One has to know where to look. Why re-invent the wheel when all you have to do is learn where to look to find it?

[Jetsun]

Are you sure about this? I have never heard that Tolle was a therapist.  Do you have a reference?

 

Interestingly I used to be a therapist and I had to quit for exactly the same reasons.  I saw very clearly that my role was actually reinforcing their belief in their problem, a problem that was nowhere except in their belief.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle

 

"After this period he began working as a counselor "

 

I remember reading about it somewhere else as well though, must be in one of his books

[Nikolai1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckhart_Tolle

 

"After this period he began working as a counselor "

 

I remember reading about it somewhere else as well though, must be in one of his books

Thanks, I always took that to mean spiritual teacher and I also never heard him say that he stopped doing it because he couldn't buy into people's problems.  It interests me because it happened to me.  Thanks anyway!

[Nikolai1]

Dawei,

 

The windchimes thing wouldn't happen to anyone but a Tai Chi student because that is the tradition.  Likewise, the Taichi student wouldn't have the visions of the Passion that we see in Christian teachers like Julian of Norwich.

 

We live in syncretic times, and the serious western student is steeped in all sorts of traditions, and often none exclusively.  One emerging trend is what gets called generically Non-Duality and Tolle, Adyashanti, Parsons are importnant innovators.  We need people like Spotless who are willing to translate direct experience into new and fresh tropes - those who have the ears to hear will hear.

[dwai]

Dawei,

 

The windchimes thing wouldn't happen to anyone but a Tai Chi student because that is the tradition.  Likewise, the Taichi student wouldn't have the visions of the Passion that we see in Christian teachers like Julian of Norwich.

 

We live in syncretic times, and the serious western student is steeped in all sorts of traditions, and often none exclusively.  One emerging trend is what gets called generically Non-Duality and Tolle, Adyashanti, Parsons are importnant innovators.  We need people like Spotless who are willing to translate direct experience into new and fresh tropes - those who have the ears to hear will hear.

Actually wind chimes happen to anyone who's working on the chakras/dan tiens. There is a complete yoga tradition that deals with sounds...and wind chimes, bells, flutes etc can be heard in the inner ear (not the physical ear but the esoteric ear) as part of opening the heart chakra.

 

imho, those who hop from tradition to tradition are usually like scavengers. They cannot commit to one tradition and therefore hop between systems. Typically it involves a need for quick gratification. There might be genuine seekers who cannot resonate with one system so they jump to another. They think they're going for the "short cut", but end up getting confused and disoriented.

 

To use a Daoist quote - "It is better to dig one deep well than a thousand shallow ones"...

 

I'm not saying Spotless is not doing good work. I'm just suggesting that his premise for rejecting the Eastern Texts is flawed, imho. 

 

This attitude gives rise to more charlatans than good teachers. There is a reason why over thousands of years, specific styles and systems of teaching the esoteric have evolved. There is no better laboratory than time. So by all means, express the indescribable in our own words...it is very important. but don't reject the very traditions that have given you the abilities. 

[Nikolai1]

Spotless isn't rejecting eastern teachings, just paraphrasing them!

[Tibetan_Ice]

I wish you well TI - you reached this state once and found it boring - and you appear to fully enjoy what you have regarded as treasure in its place. You see but do not see and hear but do not hear and you quote like no one on earth:)

Spotless,

You may think that you've awakened, or become enlightened in your definition of the matter but I see things differently.

 

For one, recently you wrote that you put me on "ignore". However, I see that you've replied to my post. Were you lying?

 

Further, your assessment that I became bored with my "once" taste of the bliss state is totally inaccurate. Had your assessment been even partially true it might have proven some iota of psychic ability, particularly the one of "knowing the minds of others". But in your case, you have failed.

 

Then you go on to insult me by saying that I see but see not..etc. This a form of malicious intent.

 

So, just in your one post, you have further reinforced my belief that you are in no where near any form of awakening or enlightenment, as an enlightened being possesses certain characteristics; they have overcome the ten fetters and do not demonstrate the type of behavior that you demonstrate.

 

An arahant, having conquered craving, does not go to "burning man" parties, nor does he/she perform forms of asceticism such as fasting. Nor does an arahant lie, mistakenly read the minds of others nor insult or misrepresent the accomplishments of others.

 

According to Buddha's Buddhism, these are the fetters which must be overcome in order to reach the various stages of enlightenment. I just don't see you demonstrating any...

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_enlightenment

 

A Stream-enterer (Sotapanna) is free from:

 

1. Identity view

2. Attachment to rites and rituals

3. Doubt about the teachings

A Once-returner (Sakadagami) has greatly attenuated:

 

4. Sensual desire

5. Ill will

A Non-returner (Anāgāmi) is free from:

 

4. Sensual desire

5. Ill will

An Arahant is free from all of the five lower fetters and the five higher fetters, which are:

 

6. Craving for fine material existence

7. Craving for existence on the level of formlessness

8. Conceit

9. Restlessness

10. Ignorance

 

 

Here is a link which further explains the ten fetters:

 

http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com/vol5/stages-of-the-path.pdf

 

 

The Non-Returner

 

In the figure of the Non-Returner we encounter a being who truly seems to come from another world. In addition to having broken the first three fetters and possessing an unshakeable faith in the Three Jewels, the Non-Returner has attained complete ethical purity. It's not that they don't conceal their unskilfulness, they just don't have any, whether of body, speech or mind. They are almost flawlessly motivated by generosity, love and wisdom.

 

The last five fetters remain of course, but these are exceptionally subtle in comparison to what has been broken in the fourth and fifth fetters. Also, because Non-Returners are not subject to any hindrances, the Eight Jhānas are readily accessible to them (not that ready access to Jhāna necessarily indicates any particular attainment, I should add – it doesn't work the other way round).

 

There are examples of both monastic and lay Non-Returners in the Canon. There is the figure of Gatikāra the Potter12, for example, who remains in the household life in order to care for his ageing parents, but he is an extraordinarily holy man.

 

Within contemporary biography it has struck me that Dipa-ma13 may fit here. I say 'may' because, well, who am I to know for sure? Certainly she claimed to no longer experience unskilful mental states and she could access the Jhānas at will; she also actually claimed certain levels of attainment.

 

Are there Non-Returners in the Western Buddhist Order? I don't know. I'm sure it would be a wonderful and humbling experience to meet one.

 

 

 

 

You probably won't read the whole text because you are more interested in writing than you are in reading (learning), but you can assess your own level of accomplishment based on these levels and see if you even qualify as a stream enterer. (No identity, no ego)

 

Yes, there is a great chasm between the modern western "awake" crowd's definition of awakening and the classical eastern definition of enlightenment. You are free to choose whichever one you wish. For me, your behavior and writings tell us all which definition you have chosen.

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[Nikolai1]

I really think that what you're objecting too is spotless's audacity at calling himself awakened.  If you focus instead on what he says then it's very likely that you'll find parallels in your own experience.

 

The trouble is, many people don't actually have any actual experience of their own, all they have is stored quotes from scriptures.  And when a verbal comparison is made at the merely verbal level, of course what spotless says and what the sriptures say don't add up.

 

I think you know this, but you're so shocked by his brazenness that you want to drag him down.

[bax44]

I dont pretend to be anywhere near as advanced as anyone in this thread nor have I dug too deep into buddhism or taoism except by utilizing some of  the practices, however I have to kind of agree with Nikolai here. When I read someone say that because someone attends burning man they cant be enlightened I cant possibly take them seriously. This is the same type of close minded belief system that made me abandon going to church long ago. This type of judgement speaks volumes. As for spotless, I thoroughly enjoy reading his unique writing style its very authentic and clear he is speaking from his own legit experience instead of just parroting something he read in a sacred text.  

[manitou]

It may also be possible that the suppression of traumatic memories, especially sexual ones, may have caused blockages in the kidneys - which supply the marrow (including brain) with jing. This selective amnesia then eventually becomes full-blown amnesia as time wears on and less and less jing reaches the brain. Also note that some of this trauma may be generationally inherited and not even necessarily from your own lifetime.

By contrast, a true sage is so clearheaded that he is "transparently" empty.

 

 

I was referring to chapter XX, DDJ (Yutang).  

 

 

....."The people of the world are merry-making,

As if eating of the sacrificial offerings,

As if mounting the terrace in spring;

I alone am mild, like one unemployed,

Like a new-born babe that cannot yet smile,

unattached, like one without a home.

 

The people of the world have enough and to spare,

But I am like one left out,

My heart must be that of a fool,

Being muddled, nebulous!

 

The vulgar are knowing, luminous;

I alone am dull, confused.

The vulgar are clever, self-assured;

I alone, depressed.

Patient as the sea,

Adrift, seemingly aimless.

 

The people of the world all have a purpose;

I alone appear stubborn and uncouth.

I alone differ from the other people,

And value drawing sustenance from the Mother."

 

 

 

To me, this 'muddle-ness and nebulous-ness' refer to the fact that the Sage no longer suffers with opinion.  He does not suffer from judgment.  As such, he has no pointed opinions about things that others have - he sees value in every spiritual or religious teaching, realizing that everybody has their own path.  The 'vulgar' have acquired knowledge only (knowing, luminous).

 

I think that the Sage gets into the 'Alzheimer's state' by choice.  The Alzheimer's patient has no choice.  Of course this is not actually the build-up of plaque that the Alzheimer's patient has - it's something altogether different.  It is the position of no-opinion, no-judgment, and the inquisitiveness of the child's mind.

[gendao]

I really think that what you're objecting too is spotless's audacity at calling himself awakened. If you focus instead on what he says then it's very likely that you'll find parallels in your own experience.

Well, I think Spotless's experiences are truly valuable and am glad he is sharing them. However, when someone continually makes "grandiose" claims yet doesn't appear to walk their talk, it does lead others to question all that talk...

i was meditating everyday at one point typically starting at 3am - and at a certain point "my story", that which was identified with the various "me's" or "I's" fell away enmass. Chunks of me day after day - fear fell away as well - my life became more like a past life - no relationship to positions (such as political positions), past anger and resentments nor even current friends and family.

How Bush Jr. Is not in Jail and Obama appears on television shows with the likes of Bill O'liely.

 

Fox calls itself a News Network - and their buildings are not in exploded ruble.

 

We could have sent 80 million Americans to college for 4 years for the price of as John MacCain and Alan Greespan called it: "the Oil War" in Iraq / Afghanistan.

 

The system needs a 12 step program not the rioters. It also needs fish bat therapy - the one where you take a bat to the idiot system of systemic imbalance and godless greed.

 

We need riots - lots of them.

We need fish bat therapy - it is when you take a small fish bat and hit completely ignorant pompous frog heads in the head in order to quickly and abruptly wake them up and re-arrange the mental passages in their head in hopes of starting actual thinking and some form of sobriety from their former stupification. Hopefully they will burn their charts and quotations and start over in trying to assess statistical information.

 

Typically anyone considering Fox "news" as something having to do with anything other than utter fantasy is ripe for Fish Bat Therapy.

 

The buzz is dull but unnecessary suffering abounds and the unknowing Koch supporters need a douse of freedom from their complete deep and conforming sleep.

Hmm, no political positions, anger, or resentments there!

 

Self-proclaimed "Western Enlightenment," in a nutshell?

Edited September 11, 2015 by gendao

[Tibetan_Ice]

I dont pretend to be anywhere near as advanced as anyone in this thread nor have I dug too deep into buddhism or taoism except by utilizing some of  the practices, however I have to kind of agree with Nikolai here. When I read someone say that because someone attends burning man they cant be enlightened I cant possibly take them seriously. This is the same type of close minded belief system that made me abandon going to church long ago. This type of judgement speaks volumes. As for spotless, I thoroughly enjoy reading his unique writing style its very authentic and clear he is speaking from his own legit experience instead of just parroting something he read in a sacred text.  

 

Let me ask you this. If you had vainquished the 10 fetters and were capable of the jhana of infinite consciousness (which you would be), knew all your inumerable past lives, could see through the eyes of any sentient being, could go anywhere, become anything, what interest would physically going to 'Burning Man' provide? You could blink an eye and in that split second, taste all the Burning Man's that ever occured, past present and future. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracles_of_Gautama_Buddha

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iddhi

Edited September 10, 2015 by Tibetan_Ice

[thelerner]

Let me ask you this. If you had vainquished the 10 fetters and were capable of the jhana of infinite consciousness (which you would be), knew all your inumerable past lives, could see through the eyes of any sentient being, could go anywhere, become anything, what interest would physically going to 'Burning Man' provide? You could blink an eye and in that split second, taste all the Burning Man's that ever occured, past present and future.

 I'd go to Burning Man after vanquishing the fetters.  Maybe you could see through others eyes, turning on the TV or surfing the web is no substitute for being there.

 

No matter how enlightened one gets, one hopes you're still a human, interested (though not clingy) in human kinds of things.  If you love opera, would you never see another one again?  The Buddha married, lived, taught, (had a kid) ate, crapped.   It didn't seem to make him an alien. 

[Spotless]

I would say the majority of people who talk about awakening don't equate it with traditional definitions of enlightenment from ancient traditions.

 

Yet they call it awakening because the experience of it is like waking up out of a dream. The dream is their life before awakening, which is seen as unreal or imaginary. Eckhart Tolle worked as a psychotherapist but after awakening he couldn't take it seriously because he saw all the complaints people had about their lives weren't real. So there was a definite shift of before and after for people like Tolle and many others who talk about similar experiences.  

 

I have never heard of him having been a psychotherapist - but the essential shift of self is a clear component of Awakening.