Opening of the third eye and other byproducts along the way

[Spotless]

Actually wind chimes happen to anyone who's working on the chakras/dan tiens. There is a complete yoga tradition that deals with sounds...and wind chimes, bells, flutes etc can be heard in the inner ear (not the physical ear but the esoteric ear) as part of opening the heart chakra.

 

imho, those who hop from tradition to tradition are usually like scavengers. They cannot commit to one tradition and therefore hop between systems. Typically it involves a need for quick gratification. There might be genuine seekers who cannot resonate with one system so they jump to another. They think they're going for the "short cut", but end up getting confused and disoriented.

 

To use a Daoist quote - "It is better to dig one deep well than a thousand shallow ones"...

 

I'm not saying Spotless is not doing good work. I'm just suggesting that his premise for rejecting the Eastern Texts is flawed, imho. 

 

This attitude gives rise to more charlatans than good teachers. There is a reason why over thousands of years, specific styles and systems of teaching the esoteric have evolved. There is no better laboratory than time. So by all means, express the indescribable in our own words...it is very important. but don't reject the very traditions that have given you the abilities. 

 

Please do not put words in my mouth - I do not "reject Eastern Texts" and it certainly has never been a premise.

I have stated that they are often very very hard to get a feeling from for what initially happens in Awakening.

 

Adyshanti, Tolle and many others give an account nearly identical to mine - the initial experience while incredible and wonderful etc.....is also nothing like what we are in any way prepared for (generally) by our study of Eastern Text.

 

My road was tread in Eastern Tradition - pretty much the Single Well approach - then I got lost in myself and once again regained self in another tradition from the East.

 

[Spotless]

Spotless,

You may think that you've awakened, or become enlightened in your definition of the matter but I see things differently.

For one, recently you wrote that you put me on "ignore". However, I see that you've replied to my post. Were you lying?

Further, your assessment that I became bored with my "once" taste of the bliss state is totally inaccurate. Had your assessment been even partially true it might have proven some iota of psychic ability, particularly the one of "knowing the minds of others". But in your case, you have failed.

Then you go on to insult me by saying that I see but see not..etc. This a form of malicious intent.

So, just in your one post, you have further reinforced my belief that you are in no where near any form of awakening or enlightenment, as an enlightened being possesses certain characteristics; they have overcome the ten fetters and do not demonstrate the type of behavior that you demonstrate.

An arahant, having conquered craving, does not go to "burning man" parties, nor does he/she perform forms of asceticism such as fasting. Nor does an arahant lie, mistakenly read the minds of others nor insult or misrepresent the accomplishments of others.

According to Buddha's Buddhism, these are the fetters which must be overcome in order to reach the various stages of enlightenment. I just don't see you demonstrating any...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_stages_of_enlightenment

A Stream-enterer (Sotapanna) is free from:

1. Identity view

2. Attachment to rites and rituals

3. Doubt about the teachings

A Once-returner (Sakadagami) has greatly attenuated:

4. Sensual desire

5. Ill will

A Non-returner (Anāgāmi) is free from:

4. Sensual desire

5. Ill will

An Arahant is free from all of the five lower fetters and the five higher fetters, which are:

6. Craving for fine material existence

7. Craving for existence on the level of formlessness

8. Conceit

9. Restlessness

10. Ignorance

Here is a link which further explains the ten fetters:http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com/vol5/stages-of-the-path.pdf

You probably won't read the whole text because you are more interested in writing than you are in reading (learning), but you can assess your own level of accomplishment based on these levels and see if you even qualify as a stream enterer. (No identity, no ego)

Yes, there is a great chasm between the modern western "awake" crowd's definition of awakening and the classical eastern definition of enlightenment. You are free to choose whichever one you wish. For me, your behavior and writings tell us all which definition you have chosen.

 

The reference to you finding it "boring" was in your own words for a post to Dawg.

The fact that I might open an ignored post does not infer I am lying about having you on my ignore list.

 

I want to commend you for only using 2 quotes and 2 links to quotes in your response.

 

By the way - going to Burning Man as invited to attend for free does not require craving or depravity - continuously reading headline news and haranguing posters with such wonderful questions such as "what gives you the right!?" could be a more accurate description of what you are describing.

 

I do wish you well -

[dwai]

Please do not put words in my mouth - I do not "reject Eastern Texts" and it certainly has never been a premise. I have stated that they are often very very hard to get a feeling from for what initially happens in Awakening. Adyshanti, Tolle and many others give an account nearly identical to mine - the initial experience while incredible and wonderful etc.....is also nothing like what we are in any way prepared for (generally) by our study of Eastern Text. My road was tread in Eastern Tradition - pretty much the Single Well approach - then I got lost in myself and once again regained self in another tradition from the East.

I think the "incredible" nature is very subjective. I had a deep series of conversations around this with a friend who's starting down the path of inquiry. I think some people are naturally conditioned to perceive and experience "supra-mundane" phenomena. When we go from zero to 100 in a blink of an eye, it is incredible. If the progress is gradual and we have progressed steadily from 0 to 100, the experience might not be as "incredible"...

 

Traditional methods of training will help the seeker advance gradually. Then the ignorance slowly falls away, and the "knowing" is revealed naturally...then there is no cognitive dissonance.

[Spotless]

I think the "incredible" nature is very subjective. I had a deep series of conversations around this with a friend who's starting down the path of inquiry. I think some people are naturally conditioned to perceive and experience "supra-mundane" phenomena. When we go from zero to 100 in a blink of an eye, it is incredible. If the progress is gradual and we have progressed steadily from 0 to 100, the experience might not be as "incredible"...

 

Traditional methods of training will help the seeker advance gradually. Then the ignorance slowly falls away, and the "knowing" is revealed naturally...then there is no cognitive dissonance.

This is exactly what sounds logical but is incorrect for the most part. In fact some of the greatest teachers from the East had to be fed by others after their Awakening and well into the life after - even as they became great teachers. My experience was not one in which I was on unfamiliar ground - nor is it for most with a background in this - but quite suddenly while not confused or lacking lucidity - we have no inertia.

 

It is obvious that getting this experience across is nearly impossible - the evidence of this is in your response and that of Jeff.

What I am also trying to get across is that I would be just like you and Jeff if I were hearing myself speak from this experience - it is why I am interested in getting this experience out there as have many now here in the West.

 

It is exciting to have our own stories from our own teachers in our native language and in person on YouTube and other media.

It has also been exciting to learn that many of the best of the high teachers such a Rammana Maharshi experienced the very same difficulties and oddities - these stories are only just now coming to us.

 

Tiny little uncomfortable bits of information that had not come forth before from the devotee's is now coming to light as we unravel the experience as it actually unfolds - aside from the Celestial music and hoopla.

 

It is interesting that no one wants to offer up a Western example of someone who qualifies - certainly Jeff likes Adyshanti considerably - yet Adyshanti had an almost verbatim experience as mine - and the two of us are from very similar practice regimes (marathon meditation). He has helped countless others deal with exactly what I have elucidated so poorly. Yet when he speaks of it he uses nearly the identical words - perhaps like you the words are simply not heard in the way they are meant and so they are skipped over or assumed otherwise.

---

 

Take a close look at Ramana Maharshi in his own words:

 

"It was in 1896, about 6 weeks before I left Madurai for good (to go to Tiruvannamalai - Arunachala) that this great change in my life took place. I was sitting alone in a room on the first floor of my uncle's house. I seldom had any sickness and on that day there was nothing wrong with my health, but a sudden violent fear of death overtook me. There was nothing in my state of health to account for it nor was there any urge in me to find out whether there was any account for the fear. I just felt I was going to die and began thinking what to do about it. It did not occur to me to consult a doctor or any elders or friends. I felt I had to solve the problem myself then and there. The shock of the fear of death drove my mind inwards and I said to myself mentally, without actually framing the words: "Now death has come; what does it mean? What is that is dying? This body dies."

 

And at once I dramatised the occurrence of death. I lay with my limbs stretched out still as though rigor mortis has set in, and imitated a corpse so as to give greater reality to the enquiry. I held my breath and kept my lips tightly closed so that no sound could escape, and that neither the word "I" nor any word could be uttered. "Well then," I said to myself, “this body is dead. It will be carried stiff to the burning ground and there burn and reduced to ashes. But with the death of the body, am I dead? Is the body I? It is silent and inert, but I feel the full force of my personality and even the voice of I within me, apart from it. So I am the Spirit transcending the body. The body dies but the spirit transcending it cannot be touched by death. That means I am the deathless Spirit. All this was not dull thought; it flashed through me vividly as living truths which I perceived directly almost without thought process. "I" was something real, the only real thing about my present state, and all the conscious activity connected with the body was centered on that "I". From that moment onwards, the "I" or Self focussed attention on itself by a powerful fascination. Fear of death vanished once and for all. The ego was lost in the flood of Self-awareness. Absorption in the Self continued unbroken from that time. Other thought might come and go like the various notes of music, but the "I" continued like the fundamental sruti note which underlies and blends with all other notes."

 

A current of awareness in the heart, the “aham sphurana”, led him to the consciousness of the Self, which he called the "I-I" (or the "I AM" prior to the primal I-thought), and which became his constant enigmatic fascination henceforward. He clearly related that a "great power" had taken him over, and that he had done no sadhana, while apparently achieved in one half-hour what it takes most aspirants years or lifetimes to do.

 

After this event, he lost interest in school-studies, friends, and relations. Avoiding company, he preferred to sit alone, absorbed in concentration on the Self, and went daily to the Meenakshi Temple, ecstatically devoted to the images of the Gods, tears flowing profusely from his eyes. This should be kept in mind by those who assume Ramana had permanently and fully realized the non-dual Self by his first dramatic death experience. When questioned in 1946,

 

"With what bhava (feeling) did Bhagavan cry before those images? Did Bhagavan pray he should have no further birth,

or what?", he replied, "What bhava? I only wanted the same grace as was shown to those saints. I prayed I should have

the same bhakti that they had. I knew nothing of freedom from births or bondage." (2)

 

Six weeks later he left his home in Madurai bound for Tiruvannamalai and the sacred mountain, Arunachala, where he would spend the rest of his life. The process that had begun in him continued to have its effects, and he felt a burning sensation in the body, which he said was due to “an inexpressible anguish which I suppressed at the time", until the moment he entered the temple Arunachaleswara in Tiruvannamalai.

 

Ramana had little or no previous knowledge of spiritual traditions; it was only later that he found confirmation of his experience in the scriptures. After this he was for many years absorbed in trance samadhi much of the time, oblivious to the world. Indeed, he spent the years 1899-1916 in Virupaksha Cave, and 1916-1922 in the larger Skandasramam Cave on Arunachala where his mother and others joined him. He said that in the beginning sometimes he would open his eyes and it was day, and other times it would be night. An early disciple Palanaswami tended to most of his needs. Ramana lived with a discipline of extreme tapas, or asceticism, once revealing that he did so to conserve energy, apparently for inner sadhana, which in his case at this time appears to have been a sadhana of identification with the Self-essence, i.e., the fall into jnana samadhi wherein the transcendental Self is experienced by exclusion of the body-mind and the world. He described this “Heart” felt relative to the body as on the “right side”, but in truth the formless, infinite, bodiless consciousness. While, as stated, to outward eyes at this time it appeared like he was perpetually immersed in inner samadhis, nevertheless he also would read scriptures and undoubtedly engaged some form of contemplation or practice of self-inquiry (which he came to teach as “Who Am I?”), thus gradually stabilizing his initial profound glimpse until his identification with “the Self” was complete.

 

It was this tendency to be immersed in absorptive samadhi, however, along with his first descriptions of the Heart as the exclusively inner source of the thought or the feeling of "I", that led some, such as advaitic philosopher V.S. Iyer, and possibly even PB at one point, to consider Ramana a saint or yogi and not a full sage.

 

In 1912, when he was thirty-two, he went through a lesser-known second death experience which seemed to mark his complete return to normal outward activity. He remarked numerous times that the current of the self he had realized at aged sixteen had never changed, but while this new experience may not have upstaged his previous realization it did serve to reintegrate him with his bodily vehicle and with life. This is how he described what happened. While walking back from Virupaksha Cave one day he was suddenly overcome with physical weakness. He lay down and the world disappeared as if a bright white curtain was drawn across his vision. His breathing and circulation stopped and his body turned a livid blue. For fifteen minutes he lay as if in a state of rigor mortis, although still aware of the Self within. The current of awareness that was his daily experience persisted even with the shutdown of all bodily systems. Then suddenly, he explained, he felt a rush from the Heart on the right to the left side of his chest and the re-establishment of life in the body. After this he was more at ease in everyday circumstances, and began to increasingly associate with those seekers who gathered around him.

 

By some accounts he said that there was no discipline, effort, or change in his conscious awareness since the first event in 1896, but it must be kept in mind that he, like other spiritual masters, said different things to different people, as will be explained below. This second death event, however, seemed to initiate his full transition into the stage of sahaj wherein the body-mind and the world are not excluded or seen apart from self-realization.

 

"It was in 1896, about 6 weeks before I left Madurai for good (to go to Tiruvannamalai - Arunachala) that this great change in my life took place. I was sitting alone in a room on the first floor of my uncle's house. I seldom had any sickness and on that day there was nothing wrong with my health, but a sudden violent fear of death overtook me. There was nothing in my state of health to account for it nor was there any urge in me to find out whether there was any account for the fear. I just felt I was going to die and began thinking what to do about it. It did not occur to me to consult a doctor or any elders or friends. I felt I had to solve the problem myself then and there. The shock of the fear of death drove my mind inwards and I said to myself mentally, without actually framing the words: "Now death has come; what does it mean? What is that is dying? This body dies."

 

And at once I dramatised the occurrence of death. I lay with my limbs stretched out still as though rigor mortis has set in, and imitated a corpse so as to give greater reality to the enquiry. I held my breath and kept my lips tightly closed so that no sound could escape, and that neither the word "I" nor any word could be uttered. "Well then," I said to myself, “this body is dead. It will be carried stiff to the burning ground and there burn and reduced to ashes. But with the death of the body, am I dead? Is the body I? It is silent and inert, but I feel the full force of my personality and even the voice of I within me, apart from it. So I am the Spirit transcending the body. The body dies but the spirit transcending it cannot be touched by death. That means I am the deathless Spirit. All this was not dull thought; it flashed through me vividly as living truths which I perceived directly almost without thought process. "I" was something real, the only real thing about my present state, and all the conscious activity connected with the body was centered on that "I". From that moment onwards, the "I" or Self focussed attention on itself by a powerful fascination. Fear of death vanished once and for all. The ego was lost in the flood of Self-awareness. Absorption in the Self continued unbroken from that time. Other thought might come and go like the various notes of music, but the "I" continued like the fundamental sruti note which underlies and blends with all other notes."

 

A current of awareness in the heart, the “aham sphurana”, led him to the consciousness of the Self, which he called the "I-I" (or the "I AM" prior to the primal I-thought), and which became his constant enigmatic fascination henceforward. He clearly related that a "great power" had taken him over, and that he had done no sadhana, while apparently achieved in one half-hour what it takes most aspirants years or lifetimes to do.

 

After this event, he lost interest in school-studies, friends, and relations. Avoiding company, he preferred to sit alone, absorbed in concentration on the Self, and went daily to the Meenakshi Temple, ecstatically devoted to the images of the Gods, tears flowing profusely from his eyes. This should be kept in mind by those who assume Ramana had permanently and fully realized the non-dual Self by his first dramatic death experience. When questioned in 1946,

 

"With what bhava (feeling) did Bhagavan cry before those images? Did Bhagavan pray he should have no further birth,

or what?", he replied, "What bhava? I only wanted the same grace as was shown to those saints. I prayed I should have

the same bhakti that they had. I knew nothing of freedom from births or bondage." (2)

 

Six weeks later he left his home in Madurai bound for Tiruvannamalai and the sacred mountain, Arunachala, where he would spend the rest of his life. The process that had begun in him continued to have its effects, and he felt a burning sensation in the body, which he said was due to “an inexpressible anguish which I suppressed at the time", until the moment he entered the temple Arunachaleswara in Tiruvannamalai.

 

Ramana had little or no previous knowledge of spiritual traditions; it was only later that he found confirmation of his experience in the scriptures. After this he was for many years absorbed in trance samadhi much of the time, oblivious to the world. Indeed, he spent the years 1899-1916 in Virupaksha Cave, and 1916-1922 in the larger Skandasramam Cave on Arunachala where his mother and others joined him. He said that in the beginning sometimes he would open his eyes and it was day, and other times it would be night. An early disciple Palanaswami tended to most of his needs. Ramana lived with a discipline of extreme tapas, or asceticism, once revealing that he did so to conserve energy, apparently for inner sadhana, which in his case at this time appears to have been a sadhana of identification with the Self-essence, i.e., the fall into jnana samadhi wherein the transcendental Self is experienced by exclusion of the body-mind and the world. He described this “Heart” felt relative to the body as on the “right side”, but in truth the formless, infinite, bodiless consciousness. While, as stated, to outward eyes at this time it appeared like he was perpetually immersed in inner samadhis, nevertheless he also would read scriptures and undoubtedly engaged some form of contemplation or practice of self-inquiry (which he came to teach as “Who Am I?”), thus gradually stabilizing his initial profound glimpse until his identification with “the Self” was complete.

 

It was this tendency to be immersed in absorptive samadhi, however, along with his first descriptions of the Heart as the exclusively inner source of the thought or the feeling of "I", that led some, such as advaitic philosopher V.S. Iyer, and possibly even PB at one point, to consider Ramana a saint or yogi and not a full sage.

 

In 1912, when he was thirty-two, he went through a lesser-known second death experience which seemed to mark his complete return to normal outward activity. He remarked numerous times that the current of the self he had realized at aged sixteen had never changed, but while this new experience may not have upstaged his previous realization it did serve to reintegrate him with his bodily vehicle and with life. This is how he described what happened. While walking back from Virupaksha Cave one day he was suddenly overcome with physical weakness. He lay down and the world disappeared as if a bright white curtain was drawn across his vision. His breathing and circulation stopped and his body turned a livid blue. For fifteen minutes he lay as if in a state of rigor mortis, although still aware of the Self within. The current of awareness that was his daily experience persisted even with the shutdown of all bodily systems. Then suddenly, he explained, he felt a rush from the Heart on the right to the left side of his chest and the re-establishment of life in the body. After this he was more at ease in everyday circumstances, and began to increasingly associate with those seekers who gathered around him.

 

By some accounts he said that there was no discipline, effort, or change in his conscious awareness since the first event in 1896, but it must be kept in mind that he, like other spiritual masters, said different things to different people, as will be explained below. This second death event, however, seemed to initiate his full transition into the stage of sahaj wherein the body-mind and the world are not excluded or seen apart from self-realization."

 

End quote

http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/page/page/5213285.htm

Edited September 11, 2015 by Spotless

[Jonesboy]

Spotless,

 

It sounds like you have had a very powerful and wonderful experience. Shared by many spiritual teachers.

 

What you are sharing though is just your experience.

 

Dwai is absolutely correct in saying that for most people. It will be a gradual sinking into. Like the tide coming in and out. You will have experiences of great oneness and then get lost in thought/emotions.

 

Over time the getting lost in thought/emotions become less and less as one removes more and more obstructions.

 

Some few are blessed that they have an experience like yours. A wham, bam kundalini type experience. For most people it truly is a gradual sinking into.

 

Remember there is always more than one road..

[Jeff]

Hi Spotless.

 

Rather than simply disagreeing with Dwai, consider that you may be mapping what you currently experience onto the words of others. As I tried to point out with the specific chakra opening situations that can give rise to the words you (and the batgap group) like to use, the words may not really mean the same level of ongoing realization. Even with those that you personally consider enlightened/awakened, try moving beyond just the intellectual words that they use and just directly feel them in your heart. I am confident that you will easily begin to notice a meaningful difference between comparing people such as even Tolle and Adyashanti.

 

 

Best,

Jeff

Edited September 11, 2015 by Jeff

[Spotless]

Spotless,

 

It sounds like you have had a very powerful and wonderful experience. Shared by many spiritual teachers.

 

What you are sharing though is just your experience.

 

Dwai is absolutely correct in saying that for most people. It will be a gradual sinking into. Like the tide coming in and out. You will have experiences of great oneness and then get lost in thought/emotions.

 

Over time the getting lost in thought/emotions become less and less as one removes more and more obstructions.

 

Some few are blessed that they have an experience like yours. A wham, bam kundalini type experience. For most people it truly is a gradual sinking into.

 

Remember there is always more than one road..

 

It is interesting - I had no wham bam kundalini experience - other than some many years ago. And it has been a gradual sinking into experience on many levels - as I thought I clearly stated.

The most interesting expereience in writing this has been how far off my writing has apparently been.

 

I have enjoyed working with other Awakened teachers - the exchange has been completely different - and I have enjoyed this experience here.

The competition here is remarkable - so few questions - so many rebuffs.

 

I had a clear and sustained shift of self - it was not intellectual - I'm one of those guys who meditates 18 hours straight. I've had many big little moments - this is not a "wham bam" thing - though I appreciate you trying to give me advice - however I seek no advice.

 

To Dwai, Jeff and you Jonesboy - thanks for your input - it has been invaluable in pointing out just how carefully and thoroughly words must be chosen. It has also been a reminder that people generally don't ask finer questions in order to clarify - they assume and bark back - I'm not accusing any of you of that - not interested in a war here.

 

In the interest of getting on with this I would prefer to drop this line of assumption and rebuff and lay this to rest. In your eyes I have apparently had a relatively simple extraordinary experience that does not pass muster in your eyes and that is fine.

 

I will engage no more with these types of comments.

 

 

[dwai]

This is exactly what sounds logical but is incorrect for the most part. In fact some of the greatest teachers from the East had to be fed by others after their Awakening and well into the life after - even as they became great teachers. My experience was not one in which I was on unfamiliar ground - nor is it for most with a background in this - but quite suddenly while not confused or lacking lucidity - we have no inertia.

 

It is obvious that getting this experience across is nearly impossible - the evidence of this is in your response and that of Jeff.

What I am also trying to get across is that I would be just like you and Jeff if I were hearing myself speak from this experience - it is why I am interested in getting this experience out there as have many now here in the West.

 

It is exciting to have our own stories from our own teachers in our native language and in person on YouTube and other media.

It has also been exciting to learn that many of the best of the high teachers such a Rammana Maharshi experienced the very same difficulties and oddities - these stories are only just now coming to us.

 

Tiny little uncomfortable bits of information that had not come forth before from the devotee's is now coming to light as we unravel the experience as it actually unfolds - aside from the Celestial music and hoopla.

 

It is interesting that no one wants to offer up a Western example of someone who qualifies - certainly Jeff likes Adyshanti considerably - yet Adyshanti had an almost verbatim experience as mine - and the two of us are from very similar practice regimes (marathon meditation). He has helped countless others deal with exactly what I have elucidated so poorly. Yet when he speaks of it he uses nearly the identical words - perhaps like you the words are simply not heard in the way they are meant and so they are skipped over or assumed otherwise.

---

 

Take a close look at Ramana Maharshi in his own words:

 

"It was in 1896, about 6 weeks before I left Madurai for good (to go to Tiruvannamalai - Arunachala) that this great change in my life took place. I was sitting alone in a room on the first floor of my uncle's house. I seldom had any sickness and on that day there was nothing wrong with my health, but a sudden violent fear of death overtook me. There was nothing in my state of health to account for it nor was there any urge in me to find out whether there was any account for the fear. I just felt I was going to die and began thinking what to do about it. It did not occur to me to consult a doctor or any elders or friends. I felt I had to solve the problem myself then and there. The shock of the fear of death drove my mind inwards and I said to myself mentally, without actually framing the words: "Now death has come; what does it mean? What is that is dying? This body dies."

 

And at once I dramatised the occurrence of death. I lay with my limbs stretched out still as though rigor mortis has set in, and imitated a corpse so as to give greater reality to the enquiry. I held my breath and kept my lips tightly closed so that no sound could escape, and that neither the word "I" nor any word could be uttered. "Well then," I said to myself, “this body is dead. It will be carried stiff to the burning ground and there burn and reduced to ashes. But with the death of the body, am I dead? Is the body I? It is silent and inert, but I feel the full force of my personality and even the voice of I within me, apart from it. So I am the Spirit transcending the body. The body dies but the spirit transcending it cannot be touched by death. That means I am the deathless Spirit. All this was not dull thought; it flashed through me vividly as living truths which I perceived directly almost without thought process. "I" was something real, the only real thing about my present state, and all the conscious activity connected with the body was centered on that "I". From that moment onwards, the "I" or Self focussed attention on itself by a powerful fascination. Fear of death vanished once and for all. The ego was lost in the flood of Self-awareness. Absorption in the Self continued unbroken from that time. Other thought might come and go like the various notes of music, but the "I" continued like the fundamental sruti note which underlies and blends with all other notes."

 

A current of awareness in the heart, the “aham sphurana”, led him to the consciousness of the Self, which he called the "I-I" (or the "I AM" prior to the primal I-thought), and which became his constant enigmatic fascination henceforward. He clearly related that a "great power" had taken him over, and that he had done no sadhana, while apparently achieved in one half-hour what it takes most aspirants years or lifetimes to do.

 

After this event, he lost interest in school-studies, friends, and relations. Avoiding company, he preferred to sit alone, absorbed in concentration on the Self, and went daily to the Meenakshi Temple, ecstatically devoted to the images of the Gods, tears flowing profusely from his eyes. This should be kept in mind by those who assume Ramana had permanently and fully realized the non-dual Self by his first dramatic death experience. When questioned in 1946,

 

"With what bhava (feeling) did Bhagavan cry before those images? Did Bhagavan pray he should have no further birth,

or what?", he replied, "What bhava? I only wanted the same grace as was shown to those saints. I prayed I should have

the same bhakti that they had. I knew nothing of freedom from births or bondage." (2)

 

Six weeks later he left his home in Madurai bound for Tiruvannamalai and the sacred mountain, Arunachala, where he would spend the rest of his life. The process that had begun in him continued to have its effects, and he felt a burning sensation in the body, which he said was due to “an inexpressible anguish which I suppressed at the time", until the moment he entered the temple Arunachaleswara in Tiruvannamalai.

 

Ramana had little or no previous knowledge of spiritual traditions; it was only later that he found confirmation of his experience in the scriptures. After this he was for many years absorbed in trance samadhi much of the time, oblivious to the world. Indeed, he spent the years 1899-1916 in Virupaksha Cave, and 1916-1922 in the larger Skandasramam Cave on Arunachala where his mother and others joined him. He said that in the beginning sometimes he would open his eyes and it was day, and other times it would be night. An early disciple Palanaswami tended to most of his needs. Ramana lived with a discipline of extreme tapas, or asceticism, once revealing that he did so to conserve energy, apparently for inner sadhana, which in his case at this time appears to have been a sadhana of identification with the Self-essence, i.e., the fall into jnana samadhi wherein the transcendental Self is experienced by exclusion of the body-mind and the world. He described this “Heart” felt relative to the body as on the “right side”, but in truth the formless, infinite, bodiless consciousness. While, as stated, to outward eyes at this time it appeared like he was perpetually immersed in inner samadhis, nevertheless he also would read scriptures and undoubtedly engaged some form of contemplation or practice of self-inquiry (which he came to teach as “Who Am I?”), thus gradually stabilizing his initial profound glimpse until his identification with “the Self” was complete.

 

It was this tendency to be immersed in absorptive samadhi, however, along with his first descriptions of the Heart as the exclusively inner source of the thought or the feeling of "I", that led some, such as advaitic philosopher V.S. Iyer, and possibly even PB at one point, to consider Ramana a saint or yogi and not a full sage.

 

In 1912, when he was thirty-two, he went through a lesser-known second death experience which seemed to mark his complete return to normal outward activity. He remarked numerous times that the current of the self he had realized at aged sixteen had never changed, but while this new experience may not have upstaged his previous realization it did serve to reintegrate him with his bodily vehicle and with life. This is how he described what happened. While walking back from Virupaksha Cave one day he was suddenly overcome with physical weakness. He lay down and the world disappeared as if a bright white curtain was drawn across his vision. His breathing and circulation stopped and his body turned a livid blue. For fifteen minutes he lay as if in a state of rigor mortis, although still aware of the Self within. The current of awareness that was his daily experience persisted even with the shutdown of all bodily systems. Then suddenly, he explained, he felt a rush from the Heart on the right to the left side of his chest and the re-establishment of life in the body. After this he was more at ease in everyday circumstances, and began to increasingly associate with those seekers who gathered around him.

 

By some accounts he said that there was no discipline, effort, or change in his conscious awareness since the first event in 1896, but it must be kept in mind that he, like other spiritual masters, said different things to different people, as will be explained below. This second death event, however, seemed to initiate his full transition into the stage of sahaj wherein the body-mind and the world are not excluded or seen apart from self-realization.

 

"It was in 1896, about 6 weeks before I left Madurai for good (to go to Tiruvannamalai - Arunachala) that this great change in my life took place. I was sitting alone in a room on the first floor of my uncle's house. I seldom had any sickness and on that day there was nothing wrong with my health, but a sudden violent fear of death overtook me. There was nothing in my state of health to account for it nor was there any urge in me to find out whether there was any account for the fear. I just felt I was going to die and began thinking what to do about it. It did not occur to me to consult a doctor or any elders or friends. I felt I had to solve the problem myself then and there. The shock of the fear of death drove my mind inwards and I said to myself mentally, without actually framing the words: "Now death has come; what does it mean? What is that is dying? This body dies."

 

And at once I dramatised the occurrence of death. I lay with my limbs stretched out still as though rigor mortis has set in, and imitated a corpse so as to give greater reality to the enquiry. I held my breath and kept my lips tightly closed so that no sound could escape, and that neither the word "I" nor any word could be uttered. "Well then," I said to myself, “this body is dead. It will be carried stiff to the burning ground and there burn and reduced to ashes. But with the death of the body, am I dead? Is the body I? It is silent and inert, but I feel the full force of my personality and even the voice of I within me, apart from it. So I am the Spirit transcending the body. The body dies but the spirit transcending it cannot be touched by death. That means I am the deathless Spirit. All this was not dull thought; it flashed through me vividly as living truths which I perceived directly almost without thought process. "I" was something real, the only real thing about my present state, and all the conscious activity connected with the body was centered on that "I". From that moment onwards, the "I" or Self focussed attention on itself by a powerful fascination. Fear of death vanished once and for all. The ego was lost in the flood of Self-awareness. Absorption in the Self continued unbroken from that time. Other thought might come and go like the various notes of music, but the "I" continued like the fundamental sruti note which underlies and blends with all other notes."

 

A current of awareness in the heart, the “aham sphurana”, led him to the consciousness of the Self, which he called the "I-I" (or the "I AM" prior to the primal I-thought), and which became his constant enigmatic fascination henceforward. He clearly related that a "great power" had taken him over, and that he had done no sadhana, while apparently achieved in one half-hour what it takes most aspirants years or lifetimes to do.

 

After this event, he lost interest in school-studies, friends, and relations. Avoiding company, he preferred to sit alone, absorbed in concentration on the Self, and went daily to the Meenakshi Temple, ecstatically devoted to the images of the Gods, tears flowing profusely from his eyes. This should be kept in mind by those who assume Ramana had permanently and fully realized the non-dual Self by his first dramatic death experience. When questioned in 1946,

 

"With what bhava (feeling) did Bhagavan cry before those images? Did Bhagavan pray he should have no further birth,

or what?", he replied, "What bhava? I only wanted the same grace as was shown to those saints. I prayed I should have

the same bhakti that they had. I knew nothing of freedom from births or bondage." (2)

 

Six weeks later he left his home in Madurai bound for Tiruvannamalai and the sacred mountain, Arunachala, where he would spend the rest of his life. The process that had begun in him continued to have its effects, and he felt a burning sensation in the body, which he said was due to “an inexpressible anguish which I suppressed at the time", until the moment he entered the temple Arunachaleswara in Tiruvannamalai.

 

Ramana had little or no previous knowledge of spiritual traditions; it was only later that he found confirmation of his experience in the scriptures. After this he was for many years absorbed in trance samadhi much of the time, oblivious to the world. Indeed, he spent the years 1899-1916 in Virupaksha Cave, and 1916-1922 in the larger Skandasramam Cave on Arunachala where his mother and others joined him. He said that in the beginning sometimes he would open his eyes and it was day, and other times it would be night. An early disciple Palanaswami tended to most of his needs. Ramana lived with a discipline of extreme tapas, or asceticism, once revealing that he did so to conserve energy, apparently for inner sadhana, which in his case at this time appears to have been a sadhana of identification with the Self-essence, i.e., the fall into jnana samadhi wherein the transcendental Self is experienced by exclusion of the body-mind and the world. He described this “Heart” felt relative to the body as on the “right side”, but in truth the formless, infinite, bodiless consciousness. While, as stated, to outward eyes at this time it appeared like he was perpetually immersed in inner samadhis, nevertheless he also would read scriptures and undoubtedly engaged some form of contemplation or practice of self-inquiry (which he came to teach as “Who Am I?”), thus gradually stabilizing his initial profound glimpse until his identification with “the Self” was complete.

 

It was this tendency to be immersed in absorptive samadhi, however, along with his first descriptions of the Heart as the exclusively inner source of the thought or the feeling of "I", that led some, such as advaitic philosopher V.S. Iyer, and possibly even PB at one point, to consider Ramana a saint or yogi and not a full sage.

 

In 1912, when he was thirty-two, he went through a lesser-known second death experience which seemed to mark his complete return to normal outward activity. He remarked numerous times that the current of the self he had realized at aged sixteen had never changed, but while this new experience may not have upstaged his previous realization it did serve to reintegrate him with his bodily vehicle and with life. This is how he described what happened. While walking back from Virupaksha Cave one day he was suddenly overcome with physical weakness. He lay down and the world disappeared as if a bright white curtain was drawn across his vision. His breathing and circulation stopped and his body turned a livid blue. For fifteen minutes he lay as if in a state of rigor mortis, although still aware of the Self within. The current of awareness that was his daily experience persisted even with the shutdown of all bodily systems. Then suddenly, he explained, he felt a rush from the Heart on the right to the left side of his chest and the re-establishment of life in the body. After this he was more at ease in everyday circumstances, and began to increasingly associate with those seekers who gathered around him.

 

By some accounts he said that there was no discipline, effort, or change in his conscious awareness since the first event in 1896, but it must be kept in mind that he, like other spiritual masters, said different things to different people, as will be explained below. This second death event, however, seemed to initiate his full transition into the stage of sahaj wherein the body-mind and the world are not excluded or seen apart from self-realization."

 

End quote

http://www.mountainrunnerdoc.com/page/page/5213285.htm

I hear what you're saying and my friend keeps insisting that somehow the "enlightenment" process is an instantaneous process where before you exist and after you don't exist (and various permutations and combinations thereof). 

 

He watches videos by people like Lisa Cairns, Roger Castillo etc. I tried watching them but I don't feel the inspiration he claims to feel in the videos. On the other hand when I watch Ramesh Balasekar's videos I completely resonate with what he's saying. 

 

My friend watches the same videos and comes back with a different understanding of what is being said. 

 

However my friend is a mainly intellect driven person and has chosen the path of direct inquiry. His energetic sensitivity is very dull. When I claim I can feel the energy flowing in my body, the chakras vibrating etc, he cannot understand what I mean. 

 

I think different pre-conditions and predilections dictate our experiences and course of realization. If you read Swami Vivekananda, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa or the Kriya Yoga Gurus, you will find they have a different approach and describe experiences differently.

[Jeff]

It is interesting - I had no wham bam kundalini experience - other than some many years ago. And it has been a gradual sinking into experience on many levels - as I thought I clearly stated.

The most interesting expereience in writing this has been how far off my writing has apparently been.

 

I have enjoyed working with other Awakened teachers - the exchange has been completely different - and I have enjoyed this experience here.

The competition here is remarkable - so few questions - so many rebuffs.

 

I had a clear and sustained shift of self - it was not intellectual - I'm one of those guys who meditates 18 hours straight. I've had many big little moments - this is not a "wham bam" thing - though I appreciate you trying to give me advice - however I seek no advice.

 

To Dwai, Jeff and you Jonesboy - thanks for your input - it has been invaluable in pointing out just how carefully and thoroughly words must be chosen. It has also been a reminder that people generally don't ask finer questions in order to clarify - they assume and bark back - I'm not accusing any of you of that - not interested in a war here.

 

In the interest of getting on with this I would prefer to drop this line of assumption and rebuff and lay this to rest. In your eyes I have apparently had a relatively simple extraordinary experience that does not pass muster in your eyes and that is fine.

 

I will engage no more with these types of comments.

 

Hi Spotless,

 

I apologize if I have offended you in some way. I believe that you have had a real and sustained shift of self. And as I have stated earlier, I agree that what you have experienced (and described) is the definition of awakening in many traditions. Our only disagreement is in your position that it is sort of an universal bar for all traditions. My point is that is not simply a matter of different variations of apples, but rather that there are apples and oranges.

 

Best,

Jeff

[bax44]

Hi Spotless, I apologize if I have offended you in some way. I believe that you have had a real and sustained shift of self. And as I have stated earlier, I agree that what you have experienced (and described) is the definition of awakening in many traditions. Our only disagreement is in your position that it is sort of an universal bar for all traditions. My point is that is not simply a matter of different variations of apples, but rather that there are apples and oranges. Best, Jeff

 

I dont really get the need to even point this out though. Like what was the reason to even post your original point in the thread? Spotless was simply giving his account of what hes experienced in his own words, and it seems to me that this rubbed you and a few others the wrong way because it didnt match exactly what you prescribe to. I dont know perhaps your intentions werent such but reading between the lines it just seems a little petty. Everyone has their own path or so Ive read a million times on this site before so to say that there are apples and oranges is obvious and it seems like you guys were just looking to poke holes in someones experience-for what reason i dont really know but its odd. Obviously spotless doesnt need anyones defense or whatever Im just saying what Ive observed, and its an interesting aspect of human nature that seems to pop up a lot, even in so called spiritual places. .Just my 2 cents.

Edited September 11, 2015 by bax44

[Tibetan_Ice]

The reference to you finding it "boring" was in your own words for a post to Dawg.The fact that I might open an ignored post does not infer I am lying about having you on my ignore list.I want to commend you for only using 2 quotes and 2 links to quotes in your response.By the way - going to Burning Man as invited to attend for free does not require craving or depravity - continuously reading headline news and haranguing posters with such wonderful questions such as "what gives you the right!?" could be a more accurate description of what you are describing.I do wish you well -

I have never called my experience of luminous water "boring". I will re read Dawg's thread to see what you are referring to.

 

I see you performed an gigantic quote yourself, about Ramana. Good for you! Perhaps you are getting over your aversion and grasping on a small scale. The next step is to learn about quote delimiters so that the quote looks like a quote. Also, you should include a link or reference to the source of the quote,

 

It is interesting that you think Adyashanti is awake, or enlightened, or that having the same experience is some form of accomplishment. After reading about his "awakening experience" in one of his books I concluded that he was mistaken because I myself have had that experience many times and I cannot walk through walls, heal the sick or leave my handprints in stone, like the authentic Buddhist masters.

 

I think what happens in the west is that some people realize son clear light and think they've arrived not realizing that they still have to go beyond to reach mother clear light. They quit too soon and rob themselves, and then deceive others...

 

I wish you no ill intent or harm. I hope you do accomplish enlightenment. And then I hope you come back for the rest of us like Ramana and Jesus are doing.

 

[seekingbuddha]

I hear what you're saying and my friend keeps insisting that somehow the "enlightenment" process is an instantaneous process where before you exist and after you don't exist (and various permutations and combinations thereof). 

 

He watches videos by people like Lisa Cairns, Roger Castillo etc. I tried watching them but I don't feel the inspiration he claims to feel in the videos. On the other hand when I watch Ramesh Balasekar's videos I completely resonate with what he's saying. 

 

There has never been an Instantaneous Enlightenment,  even in the case of the  greatest teachers that we know of .....Jesus Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, Ramana Maharishi etc...  all  attained it  only  after a period of struggle alone.

 

I completely resonate with you regarding the videos on internet.  I can watch a batgap video, and immediately feel how deep the  proclaimed  realization  is.   Of course, all of us here can sense a person's  spiritual depth  if  we meet  anyone  in person.

[Spotless]

Their is a technique I have created and been employing for clearing vasanas (patterns of Me's and i's). If you practice Qi Gong or Yoga postures please try this and let me know what you think. It has been surprisingly effective for me and I hope you will find it as useful:

 

Pre-exercise note:

As you do the following - it requires no strong intention - it requires no effort - simply imagine/feel the pattern and then do the exercises as you would do them. Do not introduce "willing" - simple no effort is best.

 

Prior to your exercise - as you are standing in warmup exercises just seconds before starting - think/feel/remember without effort a pattern or patterns that you wish to resolve/dissolute. Then go about your practice. (nothing more than this).

 

To clarify - say you harbor ill feelings toward someone - or you have a propensity that you wish to dissolve - or you have a problem with love of the mind - or you are your positions and wish to be less positioned - you are willful - you .....fill in the blank.

Find your footing on this but really try this with the pre-exercise note in mind/awareness/feeling. These patterns do not take willing to make them resonate - they are all too willing to resonate and so no effort nor exercise of will is required (or helpful to the cause).

 

Let me know if you find this helpful.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

What is happening now is incredible. Awareness is now wholly in a light body that is very light and liquid - it supersedes the physical and yet it is overlayed. Awareness corresponds to the larger vicinity of the base of the spine and up to the overall head area and down to the right of heart.

 

It has been difficult to talk today - this awareness is pervading, encompassing, dazzling and people glow. Qi Gong left no words.

 

The feet are like the hands but it is all liquid - like walking in a fine tea of energy extending out a clearish foot or so - breathing is as though lung and right of heart are joined.

 

Need to sign off before the screen goes blank again.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Spotless

[allinone]

What type of lightbody?

 

in human waking state there is no one body but many. What do you think?

Edited September 15, 2015 by allinone

[manitou]

Spotless - this is quite incredible!  Do stay grounded within the I Am, maintain your connection with the earth.  BE in your body, don't let your head have full sway.  I do think that us human beans are the tip of the spear of consciousness; and that there is a threshold that we are meeting.  Some of us must be the first to experience this changing consciousness, and it sounds like you are one of the lucky ones.  Hopefully some of us will be following right behind you.

 

Hopefully you won't be vaporizing any time soon  

 

Love to you.  Really.

[allinone]

I dont really get the need to even point this out though. Like what was the reason to even post your original point in the thread? Spotless was simply giving his account of what hes experienced in his own words, and it seems to me that this rubbed you and a few others the wrong way because it didnt match exactly what you prescribe to. I dont know perhaps your intentions werent such but reading between the lines it just seems a little petty. Everyone has their own path or so Ive read a million times on this site before so to say that there are apples and oranges is obvious and it seems like you guys were just looking to poke holes in someones experience-for what reason i dont really know but its odd. Obviously spotless doesnt need anyones defense or whatever Im just saying what Ive observed, and its an interesting aspect of human nature that seems to pop up a lot, even in so called spiritual places. .Just my 2 cents.

 

whats wrong with poking holes? i see it like there is lots of poking needed to be done.

 

If you are being poked then you obviously need it and be thankful of it.

[manitou]

Spotless, you'd make an old lady happy if you'd go outside and lay down on the grass once a day, face down, surrendering yourself to the Mother.  Stay there as long as it takes to get all this physical and metaphysical integrated.  Maybe back off the qigong for a day or two, just for balance?

 

Out of curiosity, has your K-activity ever left your crown chakra?  Is that part of what's going on at this time?   You say people are glowing.  If you're familiar with Castaneda, would this not correspond to developing the ability to see the luminous egg that don Juan Mateus speaks of, at the center of all people?  Because you've gotten down to your own luminous egg, the assemblage point of the energy for the human body?  

Edited September 15, 2015 by manitou

[Spotless]

If you look at the posts over the last several months - each new level is sustained.

 

I am very grounded and in my body - I am not experiencing big ups and downs - (no ups and downs) the unfolding is incredible and it is sustained.

 

Today walking was absolutely beyond anything I have read:

 

I am walking in a full body gyroscope - huge energy - all day for days now.

 

No dissipating - like living in full comfortable kundalini.

 

My torso - base to top of head - in complete energy. Arms and legs also but hard to explain - it is like I float when I walk but I am thoroughly in body and present. I am not a trance fan and my work has always been toward in-body.

 

This experience does not relate to normal - extraordinary arising.

 

I have not written about an unsustained high point for a long time. As I write this my entire bone structure is electric - my senses and eyesight are better - the MCO is a large wheel of energy/gyroscope - the legs and arms move within an energy field - this is only increasing in strength and in no-effort. I am not keeping this up or supporting it with breathing technique or otherwise.

 

I have been awake for some time - this is another level unfolding - I cannot equate it with anything I am familiar with but so much that has been written does not equate with the words one might try to describe this with.

 

I am constantly shedding more of what was "me" - it has been a sensation of falling away - or it is just not there.

 

My entire heart area is transforming - but the electrical power is astounding - I have had a large magnetic center in my head since I was in my early 20s - this is like that but 100 fold and full body - a full body glove of electromagnetic gyroscopic light body - sounds zoomy but its not - solidly in my head and ultra serene - body weighs nothing.

 

Many abilities that I have developed over the years are at "a touch of the button".

So many things becoming clear at once now - lost "me" awhile ago but now this clarity and the sheer solid energy - I would never have dreamed one could be so "in" kundalini without being "spent" or burned out - this is not the case - I am familiar with this energy - now I "own" it so to speak - it is not just an explosive arising - it is contained in this body and the body is very solidly not my other physical body - this is an energy light body.

 

Walking is such a great experience - it is like my feet touch about 1 foot above the ground and they bounce off an electrical field.

My hands are completely abuzz and out a foot or so. My eye sockets are large electrical fields. The whole back and front channels are fully alive and integrated in an elongated electrical field.

 

I am lying here typing in bed with my son snoring next to me and I am lit up like a glowing glow stick.

It has been like this for many many months now - but getting stronger recently.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

Spotless, you'd make an old lady happy if you'd go outside and lay down on the grass once a day, face down, surrendering yourself to the Mother. Stay there as long as it takes to get all this physical and metaphysical integrated. Maybe back off the qigong for a day or two, just for balance?

 

Out of curiosity, has your K-activity ever left your crown chakra? Is that part of what's going on at this time? You say people are glowing. If you're familiar with Castaneda, would this not correspond to developing the ability to see the luminous egg that don Juan Mateus speaks of, at the center of all people? Because you've gotten down to your own luminous egg, the assemblage point of the energy for the human body?

The "luminous egg" yes that corresponds - very luminous - I read every book of his! (40+ years ago)

Edited September 16, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

It is interesting - this awareness that is me is in the area of the head - but the "head" is not the head I used to occupy - it is now wholly an energy field - the flesh is something my hand touches - my awareness does not touch that or live in that as it used to.

 

My teeth are implanted in an energy field - the bone - the living bone tissue is an energy field now - all lit up.

 

My mouth is still actively similar to before - in the morning or when brushing.

 

Each time I close my eyes the feeling is just incredible - all day long for months and months and months and years now but it is now fully centered in a non-physical field of light fields - all effort is gone.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

What type of lightbody?

 

in human waking state there is no one body but many. What do you think?

 

I am not inclined to think to much right now - but I will be glad to entertain that soon - though soon could be a long moment.

 

We have many bodies - and I have been aware of them for many years but this is a horse of a different color - not to urgent to label it at this time or perhaps ever.

[manitou]

Are you relating to people okay in general?  Is conversation difficult with so many different things going on?  Has your perspective on things in the world changed?  i.e.  do you have a different outlook on things political?  Can you see things in the world more holistically?  Can you see everyone as the One?  Does it feel that way?

 

Are there things you are connecting that didn't make sense years ago, but make perfect sense now?  Could you please discuss the concept of Castaneda's 'impeccability' re: things you do during the day?  Do you find that your own inner impeccability has anything to do with your recent elevation to a different level?  My guess is that you are a self-tracker, a tracker of your emotions, your perspective, your character elements.  Do you have a guess as to why this is taking place now?  (You may have discussed this previously but I haven't read the entire thread).  What I'm asking is, did you reach a threshold of another type before this activity began?

 

 

P.S.  I read every book of his 40 years ago too, lol.  I recently re-read the whole series with more mature understanding of inner dynamics, and there are some very subtle metaphysical concepts that tap into the workings of the Dao, although told through strange and funny stories.  I just love him.

Edited September 16, 2015 by manitou

[Spotless]

Are you relating to people okay in general? Is conversation difficult with so many different things going on? Has your perspective on things in the world changed? i.e. do you have a different outlook on things political? Can you see things in the world more holistically? Can you see everyone as the One? Does it feel that way?

 

Are there things you are connecting that didn't make sense years ago, but make perfect sense now? Could you please discuss the concept of Castaneda's 'impeccability' re: things you do during the day? Do you find that your own inner impeccability has anything to do with your recent elevation to a different level? My guess is that you are a self-tracker, a tracker of your emotions, your perspective, your character elements. Do you have a guess as to why this is taking place now? (You may have discussed this previously but I haven't read the entire thread). What I'm asking is, did you reach a threshold of another type before this activity began?

 

 

P.S. I read every book of his 40 years ago too, lol. I recently re-read the whole series with more mature understanding of inner dynamics, and there are some very subtle metaphysical concepts that tap into the workings of the Dao, although told through strange and funny stories. I just love him.

Are you relating to people okay in general? Is conversation difficult with so many different things going on? Has your perspective on things in the world changed? i.e. do you have a different outlook on things political? Can you see things in the world more holistically? Can you see everyone as the One? Does it feel that way?

 

Are there things you are connecting that didn't make sense years ago, but make perfect sense now? Could you please discuss the concept of Castaneda's 'impeccability' re: things you do during the day? Do you find that your own inner impeccability has anything to do with your recent elevation to a different level? My guess is that you are a self-tracker, a tracker of your emotions, your perspective, your character elements. Do you have a guess as to why this is taking place now? (You may have discussed this previously but I haven't read the entire thread). What I'm asking is, did you reach a threshold of another type before this activity began?

 

 

P.S. I read every book of his 40 years ago too, lol. I recently re-read the whole series with more mature understanding of inner dynamics, and there are some very subtle metaphysical concepts that tap into the workings of the Dao, although told through strange and funny stories. I just love him.

In your first paragraph you ask questions that I dealt with a few years ago - a few years ago "I" fell away and it took some time to really orient to the new Awareness intuition based living. All the former positions such as political and the "my life", "my business", "my family" , "my story" fell away - it was very different in this sense.

 

I had a business and a family and a story and positions but they were as though from a past life - there was no attachment to them.

Regarding past hates - they were gone. Past rememberances that were disturbing - gone. Old feuds - gone. Any old bad taste in my mouth - all gone. Not released, not surrendered, no doing - they fell away and are now a distant relation - looking closely at them raises no redness.

 

In relation to loved ones - the same applied - for some time "my family" was less close - this was particularly true for my wife.

My son is young and relatively in the moment - I re-connected to him quickly - but with my wife the reconnection has been more of a new relationship. This is also true with my son but our relationship is a continuing emergence since at the time of Awakening he was probably around 4 (I have yet to go back and put dates to all of this).

 

I used to have very strong political positions - all the information is still there but it has no inertia. "I" has no inertia now.

The dealings with my business went to nothing more than fulfilling orders that came in - this cardboard feeling thing that I owned continued but "I" had no relationship to it - it bore my name - a name that was now a label associated with this body - "I" was no longer there identified with the name, the family, the business and the history and the positions taken in that history.

 

It is not a matter of taking new positions - and the inertia of those positions - it is position less - not dumb and uninformed - but the polarity is not there. Since my early 20s I have been more aware of polarity and the lack of it - the mirage of one side being separate from the other - the idea of good and bad. Though I consciously allowed myself to lose myself in it - and I was pretty sucsessful in losing myself - I became extremely identified in many positions and certainly could have murdered if consequences had not been intolerable (and if I was not entirely aware of the consequences).

 

The Awakening pops one out of identification (for the most part) and out of polarity - I have lead a strong double life for many years.

 

On the one hand, my 3rd eye opened at a young age and good and bad become parts of each other - like yin and yan - they require each other and are both. I stabilized in this eye over many years and in this seeing - yet another part of me was "in" life and was allowed to be there - I was conscious of this in my life from a very early age. It was also painful to watch the play unfold with one part of me actively watching - I was living the "strange life of Ivan Osokin" (a short book by P. D. Ouspensky) and learning the fruits of this dilemma.

 

Awakening for this awareness has been into Now and all the active identifications are now gone - some residual reactive patterns remain but identification is gone - many are instinctive and instinctive behaviors are far more prevalent than we would imagine. They are modified by life, work on oneself and also in this experience but still remain to some extent.

 

Regarding Carlos C.

 

It has been many years since I have read him and I have not re-read him as you have recently - but what always resonated about his teaching is that it was so "in the body". Even though he was taking-in plant awareness altering peyote - he was on the ground so to speak - sometimes shitting in his pants. He was also actively taking part in "living intuition" not "afterthought intuition" - the whole being ness in the moment with spirit and naugal (I think the terms were something like that). You could feel the dried sweat and the power.

 

In the last 10 months very definite subtle bodies have been growing not just within my awareness but actually growing and expanding "physically". I have been experiencing exponential unfolding that has sustained in each new level. The energy levels that are sustained one would not think possible in a body - it is both with and beyond body but the energy is seen in the majesty of a sunset - It cannot be comprehended otherwise until it is known.

 

This awareness is rapidly transforming / unfolding. It is measured by what is falling away.

I know nothing and know less than this each day. It is this that allows awareness the peace of being and "happening".

Edited September 16, 2015 by Spotless

[Spotless]

When you are no longer there to be in the way of what is - the perfection and completeness is the "way" of life.

Awareness now participates in elemental form in a vastness that is spontaneous, light and fruitful.