World Peace is near (St. Malachi Prophecy)

[Bubbles]

the evidence for my own existence is the fact that I am thinking.

 

Exactly what Descartes meant.

 

edited to add a precision

Edited February 13, 2013 by bubbles

[Vmarco]

Yeah. No disrespect to Descartes, but a while back I came to the conclusion that it is more appropriate to say, "I am (a functioning human), therefore I am able to think.

 

That is quite profound. An absolute life changer.

[ॐDominicusॐ]

So, considering the Sermon on the Mount, less than 1% can be seen as factual.

So you're basing only 1% being Factual as a result of the word "Father" only being used in Mathew?

 

Religion and its theo-beliefs, for those caught up in that groupthink, are difficult to recognize as something discordant in our lives, let alone as a barrier that obscures the truth of who we are from ourselves and prevents the uncovering of our light.

IF we look around the world, everything operates by group think. Repubs, democrats, nationalism, gender, I'm a Buddhist, I'm a Taoist, I'm a Mystic, I only listen to classic rock ......

 

On the other hand, if we are to take just the supposed words in Red, of what supposedly Jesus spoke in NT, you end up with a systematic process that urges you to go, and look within. In a sense its the path of Bhakti yoga, Loving Christ & God with your whole being and your neighbor as yourself.

 

We can go look at Bhakti in the Hindu/Buddhsit traditions, and what do we find? Surprise, a systematic process of changes that are supposed to lead to Enlightenment.

 

What do we find in various Christian Monasteries? Surprise, a systematic process of changes that are supposed to lead to Enlightenment.

 

Those of religious faith typically cling unquestioningly and tightly to their beliefs, which are usually reinforced through repetition of selected Bible stories, which they come to believe as if they had actually observed them firsthand.

You are describing Westernized Dogmatic Fundamentalist Christianity. This is the Basterdized version, but not the true original form.

 

These believers have bought into a view that humanity is inherently inferior,

Since I was 3-4 years old, since my earliest memories, I have looked around at this earth realm and it has never sat right with me, the wars, rapes, pillage, murders, greed, corruption. If you want, I can post several drawings and documentaries of what goes on in North Korean prison camps, that will make you absolutely sick to your stomach and to life in general.

 

Sure we can all be in Zen monasteries and ignore what's going on out there. But the truth is, this world is a disgusting place

 

yet through religion, their sinful nature can be redeemed if they follow its continually reinterpreted myths.

In Greek semantic works on the Bible, the word "Sin" means to fall away from the Ideal (paraphrased) which means to fall away from the Absolute through wrongful thinking/ignorance. Tell me a child molester isn't sinning or in ignorance using wrongful view and requires some sort of rehabilitation.

 

The reward for supporting their legally protected superstition is a promise of eternal life. However, is that really the truth?

Regardless of what "paths" we are discussing, I myself remember to have pre-existed as a unit of pure consciousness/awareness. I am not the body, and I am not the ego. When this body passes away, I, as pure consciousness/awareness, will continue on for infinity. Even Buddhism has book of the dead describing how to surpass all of the traps and illusions in the afterlife

 

 

If one’s roots or foundations are permeated in falsity, then even common sense suggests that one’s life will be equally as false. For truth is not an invention, and truth is not a consensus reality born from a fixation with self-authenticating holy books devised by our flat-earth ancestors. Truth is not a thing to be discovered, but a reality to be uncovered. There is no liberation until false beliefs are confronted forthrightly and dissolved

There are various ways to uncover that "truth". One way is Bhakti.

 

Like I said, all the huge Religious/Spiritual branches of thought have come about because of One individual. I really don't take anyone serious, or see it as a joke, folks like Carrier, who say that Historic Jesus never existed.

 

Furthermore, regardless of what "book" you think is right or wrong because "Father" wasn't mentioned is a moot point. There are monasteries built around the Teachings of Christ that pump out Enlightened Saints/Beings and have a systematic process to reach Enlightenment through Selfless Love, Grace, Mantra and various other methods, which are just as applicable today, and 1 can even argue even easier to have truth revealed, because there is Grace involved.

 

I wasn't going to ask, but I have a hunch there is an agenda here or a possible bad interaction with a Fundy or a parent or someone which has brought on such fervor to only see one side of the argument?

[Vmarco]

I think that what descartes was saying was that since I cannot necessarily trust what my senses tell me about the world and myself ... it is the fact that I can think that tells me i really exist. I don't think it was an ontological statement as in 'I am my thoughts' but that the evidence for my own existence is the fact that I am thinking. I will await correction on this point

 

If Descartes was only exposed to Buddhism,...and considered, as Buddhists do, that thinking is sentient, arising from the sense organ called the brain.

 

A Buddhist story tells of a student who wished to make an offering to Siddhartha Gautama and so brought a flowering branch to a gathering. As the pupil approached, Siddhartha said to him, "Throw it away." Quickly, thinking he was supposed to discard the branch, the pupil threw it away. Yet Siddhartha again said, "Throw it away." The student could not comprehend what he was supposed to do. Siddhartha then said, "Throw yourself away." And the novice stood there confounded, pondering how he could throw himself away.

 

If the student had his "I am" before his "i think," there would not have been a reason to "throw it away."

[eye_of_the_storm]

humanity is inherently inferior

 

Those of religious faith typically cling unquestioningly and tightly to their beliefs

 

yet through religion, their sinful nature can be redeemed....

 

Can anyone tell me how this is any different to Buddhism?

 

 

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Knowledge is a barrier to Heart-Mind,...Knowledge is all in the head.

Yet knowledge is still inherently necessary to know that it itself is a barrier, to know that knowledge is in the head, to know that there is a heart-mind, to know that going on in life as one always had, like everyone else, wrapped in the head, isn't the Truth.

 

In my case, To "Know Myself" was key to my personal path. To know why I do the things I do, where does Lust arise from, how does the mind label things, If I am not who I think I am, then who Am I. ...All these things along with inquiry and awareness have lead to the Heart-Mind.

 

So in that case, what Jesus would have said, "Know thyself, and then you will know God," would have rang absolutely true in my case and about a handful of others I know

[Vmarco]

There are monasteries built around the Teachings of Christ that pump out Enlightened Saints/Beings and have a systematic process to reach Enlightenment through Selfless Love, Grace, Mantra and various other methods, which are just as applicable today, and 1 can even argue even easier to have truth revealed, because there is Grace involved.

 

With the possible exception of Teresa of Avila, I have seen no evidence of any Christian, Muslim or Jew ever realizing enlightenment,...for one thing, their theism is a barrier to such a threshold. And ALL indications show that Jesus was certainly not enlightened.

 

I once heard:

"So how can you know when a religious/mystical leader has broken through and knows the hoax? Because there are stages of learning a person goes through. You can recognize the stage a person is in. One who has broken through to the final stage of "enlightenment" speaks with authority and self-confidence.

 

When reading a religious book you can tell by the way the author expresses himself/herself if they've broken through, i.e., they realize the hoax but they're still promoting it.

 

Some say that St. Theresa of Avila, who wrote a number of books, broke through to the full realization. It is said that she totally stopped reading religious literature. Her whole adult life was spent constantly reading and writing about the Lord. Suddenly, she completely stopped it.

 

Did she realized her visions, her trances, everything was coming from her inner self. Her priest confessor, who had always heard her confessions, just could not get over why all of a sudden she stopped all religious reading...for that had been her passion in life.

 

Once a person breaks through the hoax of theism to realize there is no higher authority looking out for you, you miss the relationship you thought you had with God. The thought that reality is all there is can seem cold. It takes away the mystery and love that communication with God provided. Reality seems very cold at first.

 

So few finally break through to realize it's all a hoax. Many, many people live their whole life caught up living in a way they shouldn't be living, acting and doing things which go against themselves and their self interests.

It is extremely difficult to make the breakthrough. It is said to have taken St. Theresa fourteen years. "

 

No Christian,...let me repeat,...no Christian can uncover enlightenment,...it would be, as someone said, for a tornado to form a B1 Bomber from a Kansas junkyard. Christianity, like all religion (sets of belief), set between sentient beings and their direct experience.

 

"the only way to understand [the Tao] is to directly experience it." Lao Tzu

 

Experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief.

[eye_of_the_storm]

What evidence is there to say Buddha / Siddhartha ever reached "enlightenment"

Who ever said enlightenment actually exists

haha

May just be chasing another dream?

Edited February 13, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Vmarco]

 

Can anyone tell me how this is any different to Buddhism?

 

 

 

It would be easier if you read The Heart Attack Sutra, by Karl Brunnholzl

[Vmarco]

Yet knowledge is still inherently necessary to know that it itself is a barrier, to know that knowledge is in the head, to know that there is a heart-mind, to know that going on in life as one always had, like everyone else, wrapped in the head, isn't the Truth.

 

In my case, To "Know Myself" was key to my personal path. To know why I do the things I do, where does Lust arise from, how does the mind label things, If I am not who I think I am, then who Am I. ...All these things along with inquiry and awareness have lead to the Heart-Mind.

 

So in that case, what Jesus would have said, "Know thyself, and then you will know God," would have rang absolutely true in my case and about a handful of others I know

 

To "know thyself" is an ego trick to sustain ego.

 

"The ego [sciential consciousness of the 6th sense of thought] uses the body to conspire against your mind [sapiential conscious beyond the 6 senses], and because the ego realizes that its “enemy” [the sapiential mind] can end them both [ego and body] merely by recognizing that they are not part of you [the sapiential mind, your Unborn Awareness]; they join in the attack together. This is perhaps the strangest perception of all, if you consider what it really involves. The ego, which is not real, attempts to persuade the mind, which is real, that the mind is ego’s learning device, and further, that the body is more real than the mind is. No one in [his or her] right mind could possibly believe this, and no one in [his or her] right mind does believe it." A Course In Miracles 6 IV 5.

 

Truth only arises through "Gnow Thyself"....Gnothi Seauton.

 

When the Greeks spoke of the Higher Mind, they pointed to the chest and said thymos,...the thymos is the seat of gnowledge. Gnowledge (Heart Mind) is a direct threat to the faith-based "book religions." Over the portico of theTemple of Delphi it is written "Gnothi Seauton"....Gnow Thyself. But religion has altered this to say Know Thyself,...which is not the same. Knowledge comes from psyche, the sense organ of thinking, the Head Mind.

[eye_of_the_storm]

It would be easier if you read The Heart Attack Sutra, by Karl Brunnholzl

 

So in other words... It is exactly the same as Buddhism.

 

 

[Jetsun]

Apparently quite a few Christian Saint's showed signs of full Kundalini activation including Macarius, Symeon the New Theologian, Theophan the Recluse, Augustine, Bernard of Clairvaux, Hildegard of Bingen, John Tauler, Angela of Foligno, Catherine of Genoa, Francisco de Osuna, Margery Kempe, Marie of the Incarnation, Madame Guyon, George Fox, William Law, and even Blaise Pascal.

 

Bill Bodri writes an interesting article about it here http://www.meditationexpert.com/comparative-religion/c_kundalini_experiences_of_christian_mystics.htm

[Vmarco]

 

So in other words... It is exactly the same as Buddhism.

 

 

 

There are 2 Buddhisms,...a religious Buddhism, and Buddhism. IMO, the real essence of Buddhism can be most quickly be seen through the Prajnaparamita's. The Heart Sutra is a one page summary, or Heart, of the Prajnaparamita's.

 

The Heart Attack Sutra easily presents the difference between the religion of Buddhism, and what Buddhism actually points to.

[Vmarco]

Apparently quite a few Christian Saint's showed signs of full Kundalini activation including Macarius, Symeon the New Theologian, Theophan the Recluse, Augustine, Bernard of Clairvaux, Hildegard of Bingen, John Tauler, Angela of Foligno, Catherine of Genoa, Francisco de Osuna, Margery Kempe, Marie of the Incarnation, Madame Guyon, George Fox, William Law, and even Blaise Pascal.

Those look like a list of Papa Ratzi's book self. None of those names have shown any instance of a breakthrough,...in fact, several should have had an anvil tied around their necks and thrown into an abyss, for the harm they brought to others.

 

Belief is a direct obsticle to the Heart,...no belief can enter the Heart,...enlightenment can only be realized through the Heart. I'm not speaking about the blood pump,...but the Heart Mind. If you want to experience the Unconditional, you must let go of all your conditions,....there is no other way.

 

No Christian or theist has ever, or can ever, experience enlightenment. What they experience is brain induced psychosis:

 

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html

[eye_of_the_storm]

There are 2 Buddhisms,...a religious Buddhism, and Buddhism. IMO, the real essence of Buddhism can be most quickly be seen through the Prajnaparamita's. The Heart Sutra is a one page summary, or Heart, of the Prajnaparamita's.

 

The Heart Attack Sutra easily presents the difference between the religion of Buddhism, and what Buddhism actually points to.

 

This seems very similar to my understanding of Christianity Islam etc and it's mystical aspects.

 

------

 

My true being is unborn and changeless. I am the Lord who dwells in every creature. Through the power of my own maya, I manifest myself in a finite form. - Krishna 4:6

 

As men approach me, so I receive them. All paths, Arjuna, lead to me. - Krishna 4:11

 

Even if you were the most sinful of sinners, Arjuna, you could cross beyond all sin by the raft of spiritual wisdom. As the heat of a fire reduces wood to ashes, the fire of knowledge burns to ashes all karma. - Krishna 4:36-38

 

...with the sword of spiritual wisdom. Arise; take up the path of yoga! - Krishna 4:42

Edited February 13, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[ॐDominicusॐ]

With the possible exception of Teresa of Avila, I have seen no evidence of any Christian, Muslim or Jew ever realizing enlightenment,...

Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, Meister Eckhart, various Desert Fathers, St. Seraphim the Russian Staretz, Elder Paisios of Mt. Athos, Bernadette Roberts, I can give you possibly 3-4 dozen more names, but would have to dig out some old links/bookmarks.

 

for one thing, their theism is a barrier to such a threshold.

We can say, everything is a barrier to such a threshold. In the Christian paths, most of the Monks go through a period called Dark Night of the Soul, where all belief is stripped away, including "theism", leaving only bare/naked Awareness by itself.

 

And ALL indications show that Jesus was certainly not enlightened.

"I and the Father are One" - Jesus

If the "Father" here is the Absolute Supreme State found in the Heart-Mind or Hara(some say is also an access point) ....then what more do you need. A number of Sufis, who realized the Heart-Mind, have also said that they and God are One.

 

It's different words describing the same things that Zen, Tao, Buddhist, Dzogchen all describe. Only difference is Jesus had to dumb everything down.

 

Once a person breaks through the hoax of theism to realize there is no higher authority looking out for you, you miss the relationship you thought you had with God. The thought that reality is all there is can seem cold. It takes away the mystery and love that communication with God provided. Reality seems very cold at first.

So this is merely your take what the Realization does to a Theist?

 

What I see instead is that instead realizing there is no Higher Authority looking out for you, you realize the Authority is Everywhere, in you, a part of you, and Infinite. The relationship becomes a direct experiencing of being merged with the beloved. It is no longer a "thought" that reality is all there is, but a direct experience. The Mystery remains and Love is there as well (Sat, Chit, Ananada)

 

Reality seems cold at first depending on how truth is uncovered. If it's uncovered via Bhakti, then sat, chit ananda remain as well. Hence the Buddhist monks always mention compassion.

 

No Christian,...let me repeat,...no Christian can uncover enlightenment,...it would be, as someone said, for a tornado to form a B1 Bomber from a Kansas junkyard. Christianity, like all religion (sets of belief), set between sentient beings and their direct experience.

This is what you have chosen to believe Christianity is like. But as we all know, the belief and concepts of the thing, is not the same as the reality of the thing. our above quote can most definitely be attributed to Westernized Dogmatic Fundamental Christianity. However your missing out on the extremely Rich Esoteric Mystical Gnostic Christianity that is based on experience, Truth, Enlightenment, Heart-Mind and still exists within various Monasteries and various folks.

"the only way to understand [the Tao] is to directly experience it." Lao Tzu

 

 

Experience born of belief can only be experienced through the condition of that belief.

That's exactly what Esoteric/Mystical Christianity is about. All of a sudden, the Christian has in their heart, a physical yearning and burning want/need to know the Absolute, to experience directly the Truth. Then begins the path which culminates in a direct experience, hence it applies to the Lao Tzu quote.

[Vmarco]

That's exactly what Esoteric/Mystical Christianity is about. All of a sudden, the Christian has in their heart, a physical yearning and burning want/need to know the Absolute, to experience directly the Truth. Then begins the path which culminates in a direct experience, hence it applies to the Lao Tzu quote.

 

No,...Esoteric/Mystical Christianity is about attempting to enter the Unconditional with your conditions,....it's impossible.

 

The direct realization of truth only occurs when all the Esoteric/Mystical Christian nonsense is let go.

 

[ॐDominicusॐ]

To "know thyself" is an ego trick to sustain ego.

Maybe at first, but eventually, Awareness becomes aware that the ego is not who we are. To Know/Gnow thyself, includes seeing knowing that the Ego is not I.

 

 

 

Can anyone tell me how this is any different to Buddhism?

 

It would be easier if you read The Heart Attack Sutra, by Karl Brunnholzl

Not that much different. Just semantics and different methods. The end result is the same:

http://www.meditationexpert.com/comparative-religion/c_christian_cultivation_is_emptiness_meditation.htm

 

http://www.meditationexpert.com/comparative-religion/c_samadhi_meditation_in_christianity_islam_judaism.htm

 

http://www.meditationexpert.com/comparative-religion/c_christian_mysticism.htm

 

There are 2 Buddhisms,...a religious Buddhism, and Buddhism. IMO, the real essence of Buddhism can be most quickly be seen through the Prajnaparamita's. The Heart Sutra is a one page summary, or Heart, of the Prajnaparamita's.

There are 2 Christianities,...a religious Christianity, and Mystical/Esoteric Experiential Christianity. IMO, the real essence of the Latter Version can be most quickly be seen through the writings of all Saints/Mystics/Monks/Hermits with the tradition that specifically discuss Union w/ God.

 

No Christian or theist has ever, or can ever, experience enlightenment. What they experience is brain induced psychosis:

 

http://www.wired.com.../persinger.html

Go look up Bernadette Roberts. Seriously, you have no way of knowing if "No Christian or theist has ever, or can ever, experience enlightenment.". It is a subjective thing. Unless you are able to go back in history, and have access to all people in the world to scan their current states, your above quote is nothing more than speculative & subjective abstractions

 

No,...Esoteric/Mystical Christianity is about attempting to enter the Unconditional with your conditions,....it's impossible.

Hence the reason why the majority in Esoteric Christianity go through the Dark Night of the Soul, a systematic stripping away of all conditions/skahndas.

 

The direct realization of truth only occurs when all the Esoteric/Mystical Christian nonsense is let go.

Hence the reason why the majority in Esoteric Christianity practice Surrender and Letting Go.

Edited February 13, 2013 by ॐDominicusॐ

[Vmarco]

 

-

 

My true being is unborn and changeless. I am the Lord who dwells in every creature. Through the power of my own maya, I manifest myself in a finite form. - Krishna 4:6

 

 

 

 

Buddhists say, Find the Consciousness you had before you were born,...your Unborn Awareness. This is the awareness before beliefs and religious indoctrination. No belief is true. If a belief were true, it would not be a belief.

[Vmarco]

Maybe at first, but eventually, Awareness becomes aware that the ego is not who we are. To Know/Gnow thyself, includes seeing knowing that the Ego is not I.

 

Hence the reason why the majority in Esoteric Christianity practice Surrender and Letting Go.

 

Yes,...the "i think" cannot gnow.

 

The problem with Esoteric Christian practice, is that they don't Surrender or Let Go of their Esoteric Christianity practice.

 

 

Surrender must include letting go all desire and hope for something else. Penetrating the threshold is like stripping off all your clothes.

I once heard a fellow say:

 

"Above and beyond the idea of belief…is simple awareness…which comes from the idea of surrender…letting go. There are many definitions regarding the word "surrender." Many label this as a loss of some sort or a lack of control of some sort…and this is not the case.

 

Surrender is actually the acceptance of your total self. It is not in that sense the forsaking of your total self as many of you have been led to believe through the definitions that your world has provided you with. Definitions such as those only serve to limit you. And this is what we want to share with you and what we suggest you learn to give up…those limitations.

 

Surrender is the letting go of the concept of who you think you're supposed to be and actually being who you are because who you are is unlimited possibilities. When you allow yourself to surrender all ideas, all hopes, then the physical reality which is only a mirror can then reflect those unlimited possibilities back to you."

 

Christians and theists typical say, "let go and let god." That is not surrender,...that's a deluded person pretending to let go.

 

One cannot play pick-n-choose with surrender,...you either surrender, or you don't. No one who has surrendered remains an esoteric Christian or theist. Any Esoteric Christian who talks about surrender, has never themselves surrendered.

[eye_of_the_storm]

Buddhists say, Find the Consciousness you had before you were born,...your Unborn Awareness. This is the awareness before beliefs and religious indoctrination. No belief is true. If a belief were true, it would not be a belief.

 

Every letter typed... is a concept/belief

 

Every word typed is a concept/ belief

 

Without these things the sentence above would be completely meaningless.

 

We all have to start from somewhere.

 

What is unborn awareness?

 

Explain it to me without any concepts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Vmarco]

 

Every letter typed... is a concept/belief

 

Every word typed is a concept/ belief

 

Without these things the sentence above would be completely meaningless.

 

We all have to start from somewhere.

 

What is unborn awareness?

 

Explain it to me without any concepts.

 

 

 

 

 

Like Lao Tzu explained "Do not go about worshipping deities and religious institutions as the source of the subtle truth. To do so is to place intermediaries between yourself and source, and to make youself a beggar who looks outside for a treasure that is hidden inside his own breast. If you want to worship the Tao, first discover it in your own heart."

[eye_of_the_storm]

Yes

Edited February 13, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[RongzomFan]

Hence the reason why the majority in Esoteric Christianity practice Surrender and Letting Go.

 

 

This is esoteric Christianity:

 

http://www.esotericarchives.com/

[ॐDominicusॐ]

The problem with Esoteric Christian practice, is that they don't Surrender or Let Go of their Esoteric Christianity practice.

Do you have a source or factual proof anywhere that this is so?

 

Surrender and letting go in that Tradition, means surrender and letting go of all things, mind, ego, beliefs, the body, Absolutely everything is let go of and Surrendered

 

Surrender must include letting go all desire and hope for something else. Penetrating the threshold is like stripping off all your clothes.

As you mention the above quote, it is described this way also in the Esoteric traditions still in existence. There are volumes of books written by the Mystics and Saints describing the depths of Letting Go/Surrender of all hope, ego, skandhas, thoughts, mind, etc

I once heard a fellow say:

 

"Above and beyond the idea of belief…is simple awareness…which comes from the idea of surrender…letting go. There are many definitions regarding the word "surrender." Many label this as a loss of some sort or a lack of control of some sort…and this is not the case.

 

Surrender is actually the acceptance of your total self. It is not in that sense the forsaking of your total self as many of you have been led to believe through the definitions that your world has provided you with. Definitions such as those only serve to limit you. And this is what we want to share with you and what we suggest you learn to give up…those limitations.

 

Surrender is the letting go of the concept of who you think you're supposed to be and actually being who you are because who you are is unlimited possibilities. When you allow yourself to surrender all ideas, all hopes, then the physical reality which is only a mirror can then reflect those unlimited possibilities back to you."

Just like the above quote, again I can provide one with various volumes discussing the exact same features as this above quote.

 

Christians and theists typical say, "let go and let god." That is not surrender,...that's a deluded person pretending to let go.

This above quote is typically attributed to Westernized Dogmatic Fundamentalist Exoteric Christianity.

 

The true Surrender and Letting Go Attributed to the Esoteric/Mystical/Experiential traditions still in existence, discuss ever deeper and stage like attributes of surrender and letting go that leads to a direct experience of Heart-Mind Absolute reality and there are various thick volumes that describe this, with traps along the way to avoid (one of them being "pretending" to let go, or "letting go from the ego.") It's all covered my friend

 

 

No one who has surrendered remains an esoteric Christian or theist.

It's a paradox. One who has surrendered is beyond all labels such as "esoteric" "taoist" "christian" etc etc. Yet, it is still through those systematic processes/paths that many can attribute coming to this knowledge or realization.

 

So while I myself, am also beyond all labels, there is at the same time a Love, understanding, compassion, and enjoyment of the processes of different paths and areas of study. Do I love and enjoy Buddha and the Buddhist system? Yes. Christ, and the Esoteric/Experiential Christian system? Yes. Lao Tzu, and the Taoist system? Yes.

 

It's all different ways to the same place. Not everyone has attributes and intellect that will allow them to comprehend Zen, Tao, Buddhist thought. There are simpler minds, which for them, Bakhti is more applicable, or mantra, or etc

 

Any Esoteric Christian who talks about surrender, has never themselves surrendered.

O.k. so by the above logic, we can then say, any Buddhist who talks about Enlightenment, is not a Buddhist. Any Taoist, who talks about the Tao, is not a Taoist.

 

Esoteric Christianity, and experiential surrender go hand in hand like Air to Lungs

Edited February 13, 2013 by ॐDominicusॐ