World Peace is near (St. Malachi Prophecy)

[RongzomFan]

Considering that Esoteric Christianity only briefly mentions talk of Nadis/Bindus

 

It does? Where does it do that?

 

Goal of Vairayana:

 

The Buddhist Wikipedia pages are garbage. The goal of Vajrayana is Buddhahood.

[Vmarco]

 

I cannot be content without a soul mate by my side and a clear goal before my feet to pursue, together at times. I could be more content if i had no hopes left to cling to.

I could be more content to fulfill the expectations put on me by others, rather than being unable to function as required by my peers in order to continue to occupy this space.

 

 

I do not own anything in my life. so kindly, fuck you. i mean no offense, but i am quite offended.

If something doesnt give, i'll snap.

 

SOMEthing HAS to GIVE. i've got nothing to fulfill what is expected of me with.

 

According to your post, you own quite alot. Perhaps unweaving all that attachment would be a good direction to pursue. But before that, that which you don't seem to recognize, attempt to write down no more than 6 things you really want. Then refine that list,...see if any could be reduced,...then refine it again. When you feel confident that those (no more than 6) things is what you really want,...walk away from EVERYTHING that doesn't support your getting what you want. That's it,...you can only have those 6 things or less. Burn with a fire of passion,...only focus on those things. If it presents itself that those things must be refined again,...do so quickly,...so you can focus on only what's on the list. Do nothing else. Every distraction,..every diversion,...will lead you away from what you want.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Vmarco

[Vmarco]

 

V,

 

The information you have been presenting in this thread was previously presented in an essay titled "Christianity Uncovered" by (on second thought, I'll omit the author's name since, I'm assuming, it must be you). I couldn't find any indication that it was reviewed, praised, or condemned by any religious studies scholars, but the information has appeared verbatim here and on a number of other forums.

 

I really enjoyed your article. Particularly the information about your personal journey and impetus behind your search for salvation. I question some of your research and would like to see your sources cited, but it seems obvious you have spent some time researching this subject. Although, I think you did most of it with a chip on your shoulder. It seems that you 'hope' to discredit a religion that you don't like. And haven't liked since childhood.

 

 

 

 

It seems that Josephus does corroborate some of the information from the gospels.

 

 

I'm very interested in what you have to say about the foundations of Christianity and the Gnostic thought and mythology that influenced it. I agree that the collected saying of Jesus known as the Gospel of Thomas seems to have many examples of Gnostic thought. And, it is important to note that that book is also probably one of, if not THE earliest recording of the teachings of Jesus. It's not surprising that it would appear as a collection of sayings. The sayings of Jesus were probably transmitted orally in the first few years after his death and for the written recordings to evolve from there first as a collection of sayings is predictable. The narrative accounts came after, and were probably less accurate.

 

 

I couldn't find any information on how the gathering of Biblical scholars you refer to came to the conclusion that only one word from the sermon on the mount was genuinely from Jesus. This seems like something that would be near impossible to verify with any certainty. I would like to see the source.

 

Even if it were true that only 1% of the sermon on the mount was genuine, I don't think you can make the conclusion that the whole religion is based on fabricated lies. By their fruits shall you know them.

 

Obviously, corruption and evil has been perpetrated in the name of Jesus, but I attribute that to people misusing Jesus and twisting his teachings and also using the teachings of the Jewish prophets who came before him as though they were equal with his. I agree that he probably did not intend to create the sort of cult that grew after his death and he would be appalled to discover what a mess has been made in his name.

 

Your fixed beliefs about Jesus and Christianity are impermanent, because they are untrue, and will eventually dissipate, so as to lose their grip on you. Regardless of your current beliefs,...religion, that is, a set of beliefs, is always false. Looking for something good in the false just makes no sense to me.

 

Yes,...many of the historical Christian posts here, were also posted last year in another thread. Because many here don't read last years posts, it seemed appropriate to post them here, where they argue the posts in this thread.

 

Most of the historical Christian content here in this thread, contains over 20 years research, and were part of an International Writing Competition, of which I won first place, by way of several Religious Scholar judges. Nothing in the essay Christianity Uncovered has been, or is likely to be found false.

 

Your Wiki quote on Flavius Josephus is quite surprising, and quite unaccurate, as if planted by an Christian Apologist.

 

I'll repeat: "Sciolistic Christians vaunt that the historian Josephus, in two remarks that have been taken out of context, verifies that Jesus/Yeshua existed. Today, however, even conservative scholars agree that those quotations from chapters 18 and 20 of the Jewish Antiquities, a history of the Jews, were later Christian interpolations. Such conclusions are consistent with Origen, an ante-Nicene father, who in the third century CE indicated that such a declaration from Josephus of a Jesus Christ did not exist in his copy of the Jewish Antiquities. Furthermore, no one else before the fourth century CE ever mentioned such an important reference from this often-cited source." V

 

I'm very disappointed, and very saddened by the Wiki clip.

Seems the truth has been relegated to second hand sites:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm

 

As for only the word Father could attributed to a Jesus, by Religious Scholars, as quoted,...this occurred around 1988, and I first read of it in a Sunday newspaper. These scholars, members of the Westar Institute, have resoundly bullied by the Christian faithful, and thus no need for me to search out their findings, for you would not believe them anyway,...although Jesuit Rev. Edward Beutner certainly does. It makes sense that the Rev was removed,...kind of like Christians discredited Scott Ritter for speaking against the illegal invasion of Iraq.

 

 

When Jesus says, "I and the Father are One." Replace "Father" with "Unconditioned". "I and the Unconditioned are One" All of sudden we have a nondual and Taoist applicable statement.

 

 

Christian BS,..attempting to cling to their faith, is likely the most bizarre maddness, bar none. Their god is not the Tao,...the Tao can NEVER be realized through their god. This has nothing to do with some imagined chip you'd like to see on my shoulder so you faith appears more palatable. If you want to realize the Tao,...you're not beinging your faith with you.

If truth upsets belief, then believers will kill the truth.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Vmarco

[Vmarco]

What is refer to in Esoteric Christianity, is much more than just the "beginning step in Vajrayana". The later stages are also similarly mentioned as well.

 

Goal of Vairayana:

 

Same goal in Esoteric Christianity.

 

Considering that VAirayana also includes Ritual, Upaya, Esoteric transmission, Vows, Tantra Techniques, Purities, Completion Stages, Diety-Guru-Death Yoga's, you would be surprised to find a bunch of similar aspects in Esoteric Christianity.

 

Same thing, different names. Same end goal.

 

 

Vajrayana = "The clear light of [Vajrayana] cannot be revealed, By the canonical scriptures or metaphysical treatises, Of the Mantravada, the Paramitas or the Tripitaka; The clear light is veiled by concepts and ideals."

 

Christianity,...whether Esoteric or Fundamental, does not have the same goal as Vajrayana,...nor could ever realize the goal of Vajrayana, even by sheer luck.

 

The beginning of Vajrayana is letting go of any faith in a god,...so at best, esoteric Christianity is that which is before the beginning of Vajrayana.

[eye_of_the_storm]

In this perceived reality, there is every right to sow, but none to reap what one has sown,...thus no hope and expectation necessary. My enjoyment of interacting on TTB is one of playing with words,...a fully verbal communication, with non-verbal gestures and clues to alter the communication.

 

Regardless of "my view" there simply is no god,...no belief is necessary,...belief is for those who are ignorant of a single truth. Once a single (absolute) truth is realized, beliefs release and fall aside like the layers of a dried onion.

 

Undivided Light is proof that no god exists.

http://thetaobums.com/topic/19803-what-is-light/

 

 

What is it that compels you?

[Vmarco]

 

What is it that compels you?

 

I love this prose, written by a Canadian:

 

"Waking up is not necessarily pleasant; you get to see why all this time, you chose to sleep.

 

When you wake up the first thing you will see is Reality does not exist for you, you exist for it. Shocking as it is when you let it in, there is rest.

 

You do not have to labor anymore to hold together a reality that does not exist; forcing something to be real that is not real.

 

You and this life you have been living are not real ...

 

In letting it in, even through the shock... pain... shattering, there is rest.

 

Reality is when all you want to know is what is true ...just so that you can let it in and be true.

 

Reality is not a safe place for you - the you that you have created.

 

It is the only place where you would die; where there is no room for your hopes, your dreams.

 

Once you have let it in, once you begin to re-awaken; to let Reality wake you up, nothing can get it out. That is the beginning of your end.

 

Waking up can be much more painful than the agony of your dream, but waking up is real."

[JustARandomPanda]

One cannot play pick-n-choose with surrender,...you either surrender, or you don't. No one who has surrendered remains an esoteric Christian or theist. Any Esoteric Christian who talks about surrender, has never themselves surrendered.

 

This is equally true of Buddhists - whether Vajrayana or any other. It's not real but it's not illusion either - to keep asserting one or the other is to still dwell. Even dwelling in emptiness for example is not correct.

 

In the end the expedient means of Buddha Dharma (the raft) must be surrendered too. Anyone who adheres to Buddhism is dwelling and hasn't yet "let go/surrendered" to realize what the Buddha was pointing to.

 

That's why there actually is no Buddha Dharma. There's no Esoteric Christianity either. No Sufism. No Hinduism. They're all things people cling to that eventually will have to be let go of. The real truth is the teaching - all teaching the Buddha did was just expedient means from top to bottom, beginning to end to get people to let go.

 

Once a student 'gets' that then anything could be the thing that leads them to sudden liberation. And they don't necessarily have to be Buddhists to 'get' how to do that or why they should.

 

 

Master Nan Huai-Chin once said something that made me bust up laughing when I read it:

 

 

If you realize the Tao while in Full-Lotus but lose it when you uncross your legs you were only Realizing and Attaining your legs.

 

[Marblehead]

Have I already mentioned that I will never surrender?

[RongzomFan]

This is equally true of Buddhists - whether Vajrayana or any other. It's not real but it's not illusion either - to keep asserting one or the other is to still dwell. Even dwelling in emptiness for example is not correct.

 

Its illusion. Thats why in Madhyamaka there are all these analogies like cities of scent-eaters, dreams, mirages, reflections etc. But you are right, that you don't dwell upon that.

[eye_of_the_storm]

V

Where does your enjoyment come from?

Edited February 16, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[JustARandomPanda]

Its illusion. Thats why in Madhyamaka there are all these analogies like cities of scent-eaters, dreams, mirages, reflections etc. But you are right, that you don't dwell upon that.

 

Yeah.

 

I've come to the conclusion it is unhelpful in the current age to keep harping on whether something is "maya" or "illusion" or not. All it does is keep people bound up in notions and arguing as to who's 'spiritual lineage transmission/teaching' is the correct one. Or whom has Right View and whom is still a deluded worldling.

 

The real point is to not dwell. Since harping constantly about 'illusion' and 'maya' doesn't help the majority of people these days (it was likely different back when Shakyamuni Buddha was still alive) then let both of those teachings go. Don't pour old wine into new skins.

 

 

Get that down cold (not dwelling) and it won't matter in the least whether anything is illusion or not. The point will be moot.

 

 

***edit***

 

I also think it's as easy to cling to Dharmakaya and have 'wrong view' of that as it is to have of "God" or "gods". Simply swapping one word for another or even one tradition for another is no guarantee the student/practicer has let go, etc. It might well be that a 'christian' practicer has 'right view' due to their practice and just uses 'God' or "Gods" as a label of simple convenience only while the Vajrayana student still has the notion of a Dharmakaya "God" lurking around (Vajrahidaya used to say lots of Buddhists have this problem - the reification of something that should not be reified - which is what "God" is).

 

Gurunath Siddhanath does something similar. He just calls Dharmakaya the "godless god" - ie - what his students think a 'god' is really not a God at all - ie. - the Unconditioned and constantly teaches his students they have to let go of their "junky mind" (his words) to see Truth.

Edited February 16, 2013 by SereneBlue

[Vmarco]

In the end the expedient means of Buddha Dharma (the raft) must be surrendered too. Anyone who adheres to Buddhism is dwelling and hasn't yet "let go/surrendered" to realize what the Buddha was pointing to.

 

That's why there actually is no Buddha Dharma. There's no Esoteric Christianity either. No Sufism. No Hinduism.

 

 

Master Nan Huai-Chin once said something that made me bust up laughing when I read it:

 

"If you realize the Tao while in Full-Lotus but lose it when you uncross your legs you were only Realizing and Attaining your legs."

 

 

 

Yep,...that's prudent advice.

 

Nor are there bodhisattva's, or any sentient beings. LOL

[Vmarco]

Have I already mentioned that I will never surrender?

 

 

Well,...there is no surrender,...although, one may not realize that until after one surrenders.

[JustARandomPanda]

Yep,...that's prudent advice.

 

Nor are there bodhisattva's, or any sentient beings. LOL

 

 

I have increasingly come to that conclusion myself.

 

The really weird things is having to practice all these 'yogic' techniques in order to realize there's no you and nothing to attain! Very freaking weird!

[eye_of_the_storm]

Sounds like a tremendous con to me haha

[Vmarco]

 

V

 

Where does your enjoyment come from?

 

 

This will surely invite mischief,...but, I'm always in joy,...at least I don't recall not being so for several years. I haven't a soul-mate,...never had a partner that could engage in conscious love,...don't own a home,...my only vehicle has been in a transmission shop since Nov 27,...haven't lived to work live since 1974,...haven't been bored since 1972,...I find that the absolute bodhicitta lojong are absolutely true.

 

Imagine stepping into someone's dream,...fully understanding that you stepped into someone's dream. No matter what was being drempt, you see it for what itis,...a dream,...and it's very amusing.

 

The key, or what both Taoism and Buddhism are ultimately pointing to, is seeing things as they are. That is the punchline of prajnaparamita. The heart of the prajnaparamita is the Heart Sutra,...the best available commentary on the prajnaparamita is The Heart Attack Sutra. Most people can uncover reality through the Heart Sutra,...although the shortest prajnaparamita Sutra is just a one syllable word.

 

Hui Neng (later to be the 6th Zen Patriarch) supposedly heard one sentence written by Hung Jen, and instantly was said to have realized Enlightenment,...which could translate to a somewhat state of enjoyment. What is enjoyment? Is it nirvana? What's nirvana,...except for the opposite of samsara,...both are impermanent. My impression is that neither Lao Tzu or Sakyamuni wanted people to stop at nirvana,...but go further.

 

As for my response,...my enjoyment comes from observing the false.

[Vmarco]

I have increasingly come to that conclusion myself.

 

The really weird things is having to practice all these 'yogic' techniques in order to realize there's no you and nothing to attain! Very freaking weird!

 

I started with the Yoga of Clear Light when 19,...which was rather easy for my temperment. For some reason, my first motto was that if it doesn't come easy, it's not worth having. The idea of having to learn and earn my way out of here, seemed like a total diversion,...as if I born for the Short Path.

http://wisdomsgoldenrod.org/notebooks/

 

Thus,...always keep an eye out for kindred spirits who have the urge to wake up in this lifetime.

[eye_of_the_storm]

V - As for my response,...my enjoyment comes from observing the false.

How can there be false when there is nothing?

How can there be enjoyment when there is nothing?

You do not like a nice comfy bed? a bowl of warm soup in the winter?

Do you sleep of broken glass? eat ash?

it's all just an illusion anyway... as enjoyment is.

As per my understanding of your posts....

again where does this enjoyment come from?

I didn't ask what makes you enjoy... but where does joy come from?

Edited February 16, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Marblehead]

Well,...there is no surrender,...although, one may not realize that until after one surrenders.

That's more confusing Buddhist stuff, right?

[Marblehead]

... but where does joy come from?

 

It comes from within - the only place it possibly could. It is when we are in harmony with our true essence. It is when everything feels like what happened was the right thing to happen at the time. It is when one has found peace and contentment.

[Apech]

Meanwhile what's happened with da Pope ... when do we get the new one?

[eye_of_the_storm]

It comes from within - the only place it possibly could. It is when we are in harmony with our true essence. It is when everything feels like what happened was the right thing to happen at the time. It is when one has found peace and contentment.

 

To me that seems... a little higher purpose like...?

 

 

[Bubbles]

Meanwhile what's happened with da Pope ... when do we get the new one?

 

Buddhists, both the fundamentalists and the relaxed ones, will never get one.

They can go back counting their beads without worry and find Shambala in their own heart which is the true origin of all myths.

[Marblehead]

 

To me that seems... a little higher purpose like...?

 

 

What? Are you suggesting that I am talking about "higher purposes"? No, No. Not me. What I spoke to can be found at the very roots of being human. Problem is, we get brain-washed when we are growing up and we think that we need all these external thing in order to be happy (experience joy).

[Marblehead]

Meanwhile what's happened with da Pope ... when do we get the new one?

Only after the "Big Boys" have made their decission. And yes, all this is happening behind closed doors.