World Peace is near (St. Malachi Prophecy)

[RongzomFan]

My chair is still real.

 

(Just thought it was time to say that again.)

 

 

I'm sure you tell yourself that in dreams too.

[Marblehead]

I'm sure you tell yourself that in dreams too.

Nope. I don't dream.

 

I wake without worries too.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Marblehead

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

just cuz you dont recall your dreams doesnt mean you DONt dream. even if you simply witness an unconscious state of void and nothingness, it is still part of the dreamstate

[Marblehead]

just cuz you dont recall your dreams doesnt mean you DONt dream. even if you simply witness an unconscious state of void and nothingness, it is still part of the dreamstate

That would be the first step in creating a god - to believe something happened when nothing happened - to believe that something exists where nothing exists.

 

Yes, I understand that neurologists say that everyone dreams. I will go along with "everyone's brain is active while sleeping".

 

If one recognizes no thoughts it cannot be said that that person is thinking.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i guess we merely distingush "dreams" differently sicne i consider every present now-ness moment a dream... maybe?

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Jed McKenna guarentees, that if one followed his one instruction, that anyone could be truth realized in under 2 years.

2 years!!! Wow!!! Why not 2 months, 2 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, or according to my friend, already born as that?

 

First ever Koan I picked up, 15-20 minutes later of contemplation ....BOOM!!!! Inside out, upside down, there is here, here is there, nowehere is everywhere, etc etc. Why not 15-20 minutes?

 

What I can guarentee you, is that no Esoteric Christian, as long as they were an Esoteric Christian, can never uncover Truth Realization,...because all beliefs associated with the Abrahamic memes are barriers to Truth Realization.

There is no possible way I can take that serious, because you are referring to Exoteric Westernized Dogmatic fundamentalism, which you seem to be stuck on pigeonholing the whole, as also being the sum of it's parts. And your flat out wrong on that degree, because the Esoteric aspect is nothing like what you post here.

 

Even though you believe these friends of yours have experienced the Unconditional through Esoteric Christianity, what has it done for you,...except argue with me that your friends experienced the Unconditional.

It's done a lot for me. It has freed me from being like you, a Taoist Fundamentalist (which I have come across a few in my day). It has established the view of no views, the path of no paths and all paths.

 

You are not Truth Realized,...what good is it to hang out with friends who say they are,...and have yet not shared with you a single absolute truth?

Arguing who is and isn't realized is like arguing colors with a blind man. It's pointless.

 

Are you really so naive to believe that you have your truth, and I (not the egoic I) have another truth. All truth compliments all truth. "Contradictions in perspective among those Seeing the profound do not occur" Taranatha

Which is exactly why I am in agreement with esoteric Christians, Sufi's, Kabbalists, Taosits, Buddhists, Advaitists, etc.

 

What I am not in agreement with, is fundamentalism and finger pointing that says, "I'm right, they're wrong, he's enlightened, she's not, this is the only way, those ways will never work." That's where the illusion based contradictions are.

 

I also guarentee you this,...if you cannot have a harmoneous interchange with me, then you have no wish to experience something true.

The interchange is harmonious on my end, because there is Love and Compassion for you here that seems to bubble up from the depths. Everything I own, I would share with you, if you needed.

As for time and energy,...I'm aware of exactly what they are. Truth realization has been my fulltime occupation since 1975,...and was even quite good at it before that.

What does that have to do with anything? There are others who have been in the Unconditioned for the last 40-50 years, or since birth. What's the pointing of posting relative points? I've met various scholars on these subjects on global speaking tours, published books, etc... and they have yet to have the skandhas/vasanas removed/purified or realize the Unconditioned, and yet they talk about as if they know.

 

If there was a PhD on the subject, I'd be 6 times above that,...the only oxymoron here is your belief that Esoteric Christianity leads to Truth Realization.

http://thetaobums.com/topic/19563-oxymorons-that-hinder-awakening/?hl=oxymoron

Congrats!!! Do you want a trophy or some kind of badge for being 6 times above that? You can be a million times above that, and not see your own ego making claims about yourself to make points. The oxymoron is that you "believe" in this whole thread and everything you've tried to back.

 

You are not aware of the various stages that exist in Esoteric Christianity that prepare one for Truth Realization. It's there, as it is with the Sufi's and Kabbalists.

 

I'm willing to bet everything I own, job, truck, home, all of my family members, savings, and the life of this body/mind here, that Esoteric Christianity, Sufism, and Kaballah lead to Truth Realization.

 

Are you willing to bet all the same things that they don't? We can't both be right

[Marblehead]

i guess we merely distingush "dreams" differently sicne i consider every present now-ness moment a dream... maybe?

Yes, we discuss dreams differently.

Edited February 18, 2013 by Marblehead

[Green Tiger]

This horse was dead like . . . 10 pages ago. Still being flogged.

[Vmarco]

 

 

 

 

To V and Owl:

 

You guys are having an internet penis size contest.

 

Impossible,...I'm transgender.

[Owledge]

Let me spell it out for you,...my posts consistantly point to that which is beyond thinking, seeing, and feeling,...my postts consistantly stress that thinking, seeing, and feeling are illusory.

 

My experiences here on TTB are fantastic,...it's a fun place to chat with sleep walkers.

You could be deluding yourself. How would you know?

I could claim I am fully enlightened and just putting up a show here to enlighten others through some elaborate mind-trickery. But how would I know I'm not deluding myself? And how would you know? How would anybody know? All one can do to counter it is to put up the own belief system, and if one is not aware that that's just a belief system, it becomes a nasty trap, not unlike the Advaita Trap video posted earlier.

Thus I consider it an indication of lack of wisdom and realized truth to talk about how great you are and making an authority position out of it. At least it's very unskillful.

[Marblehead]

This horse was dead like . . . 10 pages ago. Still being flogged.

And they even resorted to mouth-to-mouth resuscitation.

[Vmarco]

2 years!!! Wow!!! Why not 2 months, 2 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, or according to my friend, already born as that?

 

First ever Koan I picked up, 15-20 minutes later of contemplation ....BOOM!!!! Inside out, upside down, there is here, here is there, nowehere is everywhere, etc etc. Why not 15-20 minutes?

 

There is no possible way I can take that serious, because you are referring to Exoteric Westernized Dogmatic fundamentalism, which you seem to be stuck on pigeonholing the whole, as also being the sum of it's parts. And your flat out wrong on that degree, because the Esoteric aspect is nothing like what you post here.

 

 

Which is exactly why I am in agreement with esoteric Christians, Sufi's, Kabbalists, Taosits, Buddhists, Advaitists, etc.

 

That's great! The thing is, once you recognize one koan, they're all instantly bustable,...the answer to all koans is the dissolution of the question.

 

As for the Kabbalah,...although there are a few interesting points (if you know where to jump off), the Kabbalah will lead one along a literally infinity of diversionary BS.

http://thetaobums.com/topic/23491-berasith-bara-elohim/?hl=kabbalah

 

Comparing esoteric Christians, Sufi's, and Kabbalists,...with Taoists, Buddhists, and Advaitists,...is like comparing the Aristotelian logic of Oneness with a Tathagata's understanding of Zero.

[JustARandomPanda]

I have to agree with you on this one. They can lead to enlightenment as it is still their goal. It may not have the same terms as Buddhism or Taoism but the fundamentals, concepts, ect. are still in it. I still laugh at how an enlightened being such as Master Nan praises Christianity for keeping people in check. I mean someone can argue with him but you have to admit that you can't really argue with him when he already attained enlightenment and is still cultivating. I mean if you are an enlightened being, go ahead.

 

I wanted to clarify something else about Master Nan's teachings. He teaches his students that only after one has Realized the Tao does one begin to practice cultivation. Master Nan calls it "Highest Worldly Dharma". Realizing the Tao doesn't yet make one a 1st Bhumi Bodhisattva even if one has taken and practices Bodhisattva Vows. That's why the Buddha spent 3 "incalculable eons" practicing as a Bodhisattva. It takes a looooooooooong time to become a "practicing" Bodhisattva and that's only after one has Realized the Tao to start with. Realizing the Tao is actually the easy part!

 

There is no one alive according to some Tibetan Vajrayana Masters - and according to Master Nan who agreed with them - who is an actual 1st Bhumi Bodhisattva today. At least not as the historical Buddha explained about Bodhisattvas. They maintain since the passing of Shakyamuni Buddha only 5 people have realized all 3 kayas and even then it was only the realization, not the manifestation.

 

 

Edit:

 

Note: Not even Master Nan himself claims to be a Bodhisattva even though 4 separate traditions (one of which was Tibetan Vajrayana) have verified his Realizing the Tao was legit.

Edited February 18, 2013 by SereneBlue

[Vmarco]

You could be deluding yourself. How would you know?

 

Because it has nothing to do with the 6 senses. Those who KNOW, do not GNOW.

 

When my posts discuss some object-ive, mundane sensory information (by way of seeing, tasting, touching, hearing, smelling or thinking), it is usually mentioned that way,...that it is merely speculation.

 

If the post very implicity/explicity says,...there is no present in time,...no knowledge or wisdom can experience that.

 

Remember,...wisdom literally means knowledge accumulated through philosophic or scientific learning. In other words, wisdom is built upon, and points to the highest and most lofty ideas of ego consciousness, whose sole purpose is to sustain ego.

[ॐDominicusॐ]

Impossible,...I'm transgender.

I'm a castrated Eunuch, so there is no reason to argue penis size.

 

Are you m2f, or f2m?

That's great! The thing is, once you recognize one koan, they're all instantly bustable,...the answer to all koans is the dissolution of the question.

 

As for the Kabbalah,...although there are a few interesting points (if you know where to jump off), the Kabbalah will lead one along a literally infinity of diversionary BS.

http://thetaobums.com/topic/23491-berasith-bara-elohim/?hl=kabbalah

 

Comparing esoteric Christians, Sufi's, and Kabbalists,...with Taoists, Buddhists, and Advaitists,...is like comparing the Aristotelian logic of Oneness with a Tathagata's understanding of Zero.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Sure it's all apples and oranges, but if you're hungry, both can be used to fill the stomach, depending on what part of the world you live in, and a bunch of other relative facotrs.

 

Off to practice!!!

 

By the way .....(A little off topic) ...that neo-advataita video from youtube posted a few pages ago, ...was posted courtesy of Jeff Foster. I thought Jeff Foster was a Noo-Advaitin.... Funny how things work

[Vmarco]

I wanted to clarify something else about Master Nan's teachings. He teaches his students that only after one has Realized the Tao does one begin to practice cultivation. Master Nan calls it "Highest Worldly Dharma". Realizing the Tao doesn't yet make one a 1st Bhumi Bodhisattva even if one has taken and practices Bodhisattva Vows. That's why the Buddha spent 3 "incalculable eons" practicing as a Bodhisattva. It takes a looooooooooong time to become a "practicing" Bodhisattva and that's only after one has Realized the Tao to start with. Realizing the Tao is actually the easy part!

 

There is no one alive according to some Tibetan Vajrayana Masters - and according to Master Nan who agreed with them - who is an actual 1st Bhumi Bodhisattva today. At least not as the historical Buddha explained about Bodhisattvas. They maintain since the passing of Shakyamuni Buddha only 5 people have realized all 3 kayas and even then it was only the realization, not the manifestation.

 

Survey question,...how many here have actually realized the Tao? That which does not come and go?

 

How many here would like to experience the Tao,...that which does not come and go?

 

Has anyone here realized what does not come and go? Have anyone here realized consciousness beyond the 6 of sentience?

 

Sentient consciousness cannot realize the Tao,...it is IMPOSSIBLE.

[Vmarco]

I'm a castrated Eunuch, so there is no reason to argue penis size.

 

That was already assumed,..."For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." Matthew 19:12

[Vmarco]

Are you m2f, or f2m?

Transgender cannot be sweetly place in a folder as this or that,...although those of binary gender orientation believe it can.

 

All Bodhisattvas are transgender. According to prediction and metaphor, the future Buddha, Maitreya, will be a male born into a Red Hat family, and in one day, become a realized Buddha as a female; like the monk Avalokiteshvara became Kuan Yin. Doesn't matter how this transformation of Avalokiteshvara took place; and although many still view him as male, the natural qualities of a Bodhisattva are feminine. Some suggest that Maitreya will be the final incarnation of Kuan Yin.

[Vmarco]

Sure it's all apples and oranges, but if you're hungry, both can be used to fill the stomach, depending on what part of the world you live in, and a bunch of other relative facotrs.

 

How hungry are you for Truth Realization?

 

[Owledge]

Remember,...wisdom literally means knowledge accumulated through philosophic or scientific learning. In other words, wisdom is built upon, and points to the highest and most lofty ideas of ego consciousness, whose sole purpose is to sustain ego.

Oh my! I'm beginning to understand why you are like you are - if you're operating on profound misconceptions like that. You've built a skyscraper on a cracked foundation.

 

Knowledge is an intellectual good! Wisdom is application!

 

quote Wikipedia:

"Wisdom is the judicious application of knowledge. It is a deep understanding and realization of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to apply perceptions, judgments and actions in keeping with this understanding. It often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions") so that universal principles, reason and knowledge prevail to determine one's actions. Wisdom is also the comprehension of what is true coupled with optimum judgment as to action. Synonyms include: sagacity, discernment, or insight."

[RongzomFan]

I wake without worries too.

 

 

The point is that you cannot claim 'my chair is real' because dream-chairs also seem real.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/26462-being-a-realist-buddhist-definition-is-not-good/

Edited February 18, 2013 by alwayson

[Vmarco]

Knowledge is an intellectual good! Wisdom is application!

 

quote Wikipedia:

"Wisdom is the judicious application of knowledge. It is a deep understanding and realization of people, things, events or situations, resulting in the ability to apply perceptions, judgments and actions in keeping with this understanding. It often requires control of one's emotional reactions (the "passions") so that universal principles, reason and knowledge prevail to determine one's actions. Wisdom is also the comprehension of what is true coupled with optimum judgment as to action. Synonyms include: sagacity, discernment, or insight."

 

Sure,...that's easily agreed upon,...Wisdom is the judicious application of knowledge. However, there is absolutely nothing in that statement that can lead to waking up,...save the understanding that it is dream talk, to sustain the dream.

[JustARandomPanda]

If I understand VMarco's stance correctly he's simply saying one has to break through all the skandas - including alaya-vinyana and until that's done no one will have seen his/her "original" nature (aka tathagata).

 

Any tradition that teaches it's students a belief or set of beliefs is practicing dwelling. Even Buddhism and Taoism! Which is why the Buddha himself always stressed his teachings were only expedient means of the moment and that his students - or anyone really - absolutely must let go of even that if they are to realize Wisdom. That's why there is no actual Buddha "Dharma" (or Taoism or Sufism, etc). They're all just training wheels of the moment. The problem with these training wheels is that they themselves - no matter the tradition - are still a form of dwelling. So eventually they'll dissolve too. If you are busy with prostations, mantra, qigong it's still dwelling.

 

But weirdly enough we use these forms to get to a point where thinking and experiencing dwelling dissolves. That's why Master Nan would say to his students: "My words are poison but without them you will not get well." He knew he was just having his students swap one form of dwelling for another one. But at least the ones he taught had the chance that someday they'd see all of it was unnecessary.

 

That's what VMarco keeps pointing to I think. And if so then Master Nan agreed. But Master Nan also said this was equally true of any spiritual tradition/student. Not just the Abrahamaic ones. Buddhists/Taoists/Confucians/Hindus are equally plagued with this problem because it is a human one.

 

Tathagata never dwells. That's why Tathagata is undivided. There's no Many and there's no One either. It's actually moot. When Many dissolves the "realization" of One also dissolves (which many traditions ascribe to as being a "Divine" Oneness to boot). They aren't denying anything. They've just realized it's moot. Realizing Oneness is an actual realization - but it's not the final one as per the Buddha or Master Nan's teachings.

 

I think that's what VMarco keeps trying to say. I just don't think he does it in a clear manner because he's so busy whacking at things he sees as people's beliefs. Maybe it would help to drop the whole 'smacking at beliefs" biz of his for a while and focus on saying things another way?

 

IMO he should drop the whole specific targeting of Christianity and Beliefs and instead start pointing to the things that Master Nan or the Buddha would point to. Simply repeating "stop believing" like a scratched record doesn't do anything to convince anyone. Sadhguru made the point to a student (when that student asked what it was like to be enlightened) that he could tell him but it wouldn't do any good because there was nothing in that student's own experience by which to relate to it. So long as that was the case it would just be another 'beautiful story' he was telling the student.

 

 

There's another thing here. Since there is no actual Dharma (Tao doesn't place conditions on things) it's silly to say no one who's a Christian or Sufi or Jew can realize tathagata. And that's why I believe Dominicus, et. al. have a point too. As long as they don't dwell it matters not what tradition they use to 'get there'. People will realize it when they realize it...and not a moment before.

 

 

[eye_of_the_storm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWShmRvbv5c

Vatican + Aliens + Prophecy

Edited February 19, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

guess i realize the tow every "moment" between moments... the space between the previous thought and the next... closest to sentient realization i can imagine.


Edit: what's a "red hat family"?

Edited February 19, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant