Bumps on the Cultivation Path

[Maddie]

Oh yeah. I did type them up already. Duh;-)

 

"Solutions for Spacey Meditator or Yogic Syndrome

 

Do many deep squats daily or at least 25-35 times, especially after meditation. This will ground you more. It also activates your base-of-spine centers, anja, navel and sex chakras.

Stomp your feet repeatedly 20-30 times against the ground. Barefoot on soil is better to absorb ground or Earth prana and to establish more of a connection to the physical Earth. Jogging in place is also a good thing to do after meditation, not only to ground, but also for energy circulation

Body squeeze: stand straight and inhale to half your lung capacity. Squeeze your entire body for 5-10 seconds then slowly release your breath. Concentrate on the soles of your feet as you exhale slowly. PRECAUTION: Pregnant women and people with hypertension, heart ailments, glaucoma, bleeding problems, cancer and hernia should not do this. Consult your physician first

Get an advanced healer to activate your base-of-spine center to be slightly bigger than the crown chakra.

Go for more gym work with more muscle building

Take a karate or chigong class to increase your physical skills and concentration. Choose good teachers who are not violent

Go for more protein and minerals, especially if you’re a vegetarian who does yogic fasting

Meditate without closing your eyes by using the half closed eyes method. Stop abstraction or yogic meditation or any spacey type practices until the abnormal conditions are adjusted

Consult a holistic healthcare provider and a good physician and psychologist if you have access to these systems

Stop using the index finger-thumb mudra (gyana mudra) and yogic postures that reverse your feet to face upward. These positions withdraw your material roots further and bring most of the meditation energy upward

Change your hand mudra to the middle finger-thumb mudra

Communicate with grounded people and go back to setting your goals and prioritizing your urgent-important activities. Lessen meditation and yoga time in the meantime. Go back to work with deliberate intention. Push against the spacey habits that are already becoming yogic syndrome"

 

 

It dawned on me that perhaps I sould be more specific because I don't feel that I was getting my point accross perfectly. While yes there are times that I feel spacey, but I guess more specifically the way I'd describe the way I feel lately is very tired, and apathetic. Its just hard to have the energy to motivate myself to do anything. I suppose the reason I began this train of thought with using red is because I figured that since red is the color of the root chakra which is the most physical and down to earth that I was hoping that I'd have more energy and be more useful in the real world. It seems though that red did the exact opposite and made me feel even more tired. Then I tried yellow and was still tired. Just yesterday I tired blue and now I finally seem to be starting to feel less tired and apathetic. I'm not sure why?

[Birch]

From previous post.

 

 

 

So here's what the book says:

 

 

 

"The colors red and orange should not be used on any chakra in the head or on the heart and spleen chakras. Green and violet colors are safe, but light hues only."

 

"If you practice martial arts or a yogic breathing and exercise method that awakens the lower chakras, plus the upper centres are not as active and developed as the lower chakras, there is a danger of lopsided development of the lower nature or attitudes.

 

Red energy is 'grosser'. "Tends to block the meridians and exacerbate these over-heating conditions".

 

"Feeling of Exhaustion and Weakening of the Body

One of the reasons for these symptoms in meditators and yogis is congestion or excess energy that overwhelms the body. After long hours of meditation in a yogic posture, there's a tremendous increase of energy in the different auras. If this excess energy turns into congestion in the whole body for a long time like a day, the practitioner will feel tired or fatigued. Then because of this symptom, s/he will meditate more thinking it will improve the condition. What usually happens is that the more s/he meditates, the worse it gets. Why? Because there's more congestion, especially if a person is eating meat and meditating heavily. S/ he will become even more congested"

 

The blue colour was also a suggestion in this same book.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Thank you for your previous post and then this Great question from above!

 

I did not burn the straw or break it. (they did)

 

I said hello to Patricia as spirit and I said hello to my friends father as spirit - I pointed to the straw containing their combined agreements and energies and said "these are your agreements that you have completed and ones you may or may not wish to continue with - and contained in this is also your intertwined energy" (this was all postulated within a split second) whatever you would like to bring to an end now and complete - shall now be broken and Patricia - your energy will go back to you in neutrality and affinity. And to the Father - your energy will go back to you in neutrality and affinity.

 

Now - each take hold of the straw and break those contracts that you wish to complete here and now - and see the flame as this energy is brought back into the universe in neutrality.

 

I do not do healing without permission and I do not rearrange things without permission.

 

I am able to talk to a spirit with a body - most of the time the healing has to do with just saying hello to the person as a spirit.

It brings them into present time and out of the hold of the moment - what they are identified with.

 

It can also break up all sorts of Guide relationships and release a whole set of contracts - instantaneously.

 

I recently was talking with a women whose mother I have worked on - it was obvious the women was looking for someone more sympathetic - I was sympathetic - but in reality her mother is doing just fine - she just happens to be having some physical difficulties and she is taking care of those just fine as well.

 

Prior to working on someone I look at them and see where in my space I have matching stuck energy (similar stuck patterns or knots). I then work on them right then and there. Then I look at any past lives we have had together and old contracts we may have remaining - I bring those into the present. I look at various things in the persons space to see how it affects me to look at those things. If looking creates a buzz in parts of my space i address that and work to be in a neutral space in relation to those energies that were having an effect on me.

 

It takes about an hour to ready myself on this level if I am not already meditating. So before I work on the person or look at them clairvoyantly - I have already gotten far more out the reading/healing than they will. Physically they will be unaware of most of the work I do - though I generally talk to them about what is taking place within a framework that they can hear.

 

As I am talking to them and or working on them a light show of sorts takes place and new energies reveal themselves or full pictures emerge.I can put them in touch with their Akashic records, move beings out of their space (if they want), open pathways, help them blow through a blockage and much much more.

 

At this point most of what i do is very fast and most of what I just wrote above takes place in seconds though it is very precise.

 

At the close of these encounters I withdraw and check to see if I left any of my energy in their space or if theirs is in mine.

I also remove attention points from concerned friends from my space and mine from theirs. I "end any contracts" I do not want with them and check my space for anything that may have lit up.

 

I don't use my energy when healing - i bring in cosmic energy and alter it as needed.

It is effortless and of no strain what so ever. The last time I did work like this I was surprised at how tremendous the energy flow was - the women I was working on took on a huge amount of energy - far more than I had ever seen before - but it was nothing to me other than completely amazing to watch

 

Hi Spotless,

Thank you for posting all that. That is interesting.

I was going to ask you... If you have the ability to tune into people, what type of impressions do you get from Alan Wallace when you tune into him?

 

TI

[Tibetan_Ice]

Thanks for sharing your experiences TI. :-)

 

I haven't heard of that meditation technique. Perhaps one day it will cross my path (or mind) to take it on.

 

Hope you are well. _/\_

 

Hi Rainbowvein

I first learned about that technique from one of Alan Wallace's books. I think it is "Mind in the Balance". In it he referred to Franklin Merrell-Wolff's book called "Experience and Philosophy". In that book Franklin talks about returning to the source by going backwards, or turning the attention around.

 

It makes sense to me. If we create the world or manifest it from the indestructible drop in the heart, that means that everything is an outward flow. To return to the source, you have to swim against the current.

 

It is a popular method in Hinduism, the 'neti, neti, neti' - not that, not that, not that. But it is not an intellectual game. It is a practice. That's what I believe everyone seems to miss about 'neti, neti'. Turn it into a meditative practice.

 

It is also what I believe that Nisargadatta is saying when he continually repeats "focus on the feeling the "I AM". It will take you there and then go beyond that. The feeling of "I AM" is the bliss of existence for the small light or son light. When you focus on it with determination and sustained attention/absorption, it will eventually dissolve, revealing the 'mother light'.

 

Most all meditations except for the "awareness of awareness" types of meditation are always focusing on the object, whether it be a mantra, the breath, a vision, a deity.. All of these are outer manifestations of forms. After a while, one realizes that there is a subject watching. It makes sense to me to learn more about the subject. It is much harder because the focusing on forms is like swimming with the current, swimming downstream in the river. That's all we've ever done all our lives, swimming with the current. To get back to the source, you have to swim against the current.

 

What I do for the meditation is this:

Sit in a meditative posture and then watch. Whatever you see, feel, think, or hear, turn your attention around and receed into the subject that is watching. When you think you are there, notice what you are aware of, then notice that something is aware of that something. So, again, you turn your attention around or receed back into the subject. As you progress, you find that you are continually aware of something. But, it is not that, not that, not that. So you keep turning your attention around. Gradually what happens is, after continually letting go, you pass through the layers of the etheric, astral, mental and causal bodies and end up closer to the source. Along the way, you experience many of the spiritual experiences that one might get during normal types of meditations.. visions, heat, sounds, bliss, kundalini, insomnia, watching yourself sleep, overabundance of energy.. etc. As you get closer and closer to the source, you start to see golden light, and a golden egg. Then, one time, you break into the egg! In new age terms, you've broken through the causal plane on the way to the source.

 

Now, you may ask, if you keep reversing your point of view to become the subject instead of the object, how is that taking you closer and closer to the source? How can you be inside the golden egg, when you are on the outside looking in?

 

The answer is, the mind is like a mirror. Whatever you see on the outside, is actually on the inside. To get closer to something in a mirror, you don't get closer to the mirror, instead, you back away and receed away from the mirror. You are actually inside the egg looking at your reflection which looks like a golden egg. And then, you must clear and clean your mirror before you can really see a clear vivid reflection. Everything gets in the way, thoughts, feelings, sensations..

 

I have traced thoughts and the "I AM" back down to the heart. It is kind of deceiving because it feels and seems like 'you' are actually somewhere in your head, in your mind. But that is a holographic trick of the psychic network. The real subject is in the heart, using the periscope and other nadis to manifest the body, mind, world and universe.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

Blessings..

 

TI

Edited April 1, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[hydrogen]

Now, to bring the sushumna force into power, listen to both tones

simultaneously. It may take you about five minutes to hear both tones at

the same time. Next, follow both tonal vibrations from the ears into the

center of the cranium, where they will meet and blend into a slightly

different sound, as two notes, say, a "C" and an "E," blend into a

chord. The energy of the nadis is then flowing in a circle, and you will

enter the golden yellow light of the sushumna current. Play with this

light and bask in its radiance, for in it is your bloom. The unfoldment

progresses from a golden yellow to a clear white light. Should you see a

blue light, know that you are in the pingala current. If you see a pink

light, that is the color of the ida. Just disregard them and seek for

the white light in the tone of the combined currents until finally you do

not hear the tone anymore and you burst into the clear white light. Thus

you enter savikalpa samadhi--samadhi with seed, or consciousness, which

is the culmination of this particular practice of contemplation.

 

 

Thank you very much.

 

I've been wondering about this for a while. This answered my question.

 

The "stupid" Chinese yoga book was so vague. It said to fix the inner sun and moon with your ear.

 

Of course, the instruction was meant for both external and internal. It's hard to be specific and general at same time.

[Spotless]

From previous post.

 

 

 

So here's what the book says:

 

 

 

"The colors red and orange should not be used on any chakra in the head or on the heart and spleen chakras. Green and violet colors are safe, but light hues only."

 

"If you practice martial arts or a yogic breathing and exercise method that awakens the lower chakras, plus the upper centres are not as active and developed as the lower chakras, there is a danger of lopsided development of the lower nature or attitudes.

 

Red energy is 'grosser'. "Tends to block the meridians and exacerbate these over-heating conditions".

 

"Feeling of Exhaustion and Weakening of the Body

One of the reasons for these symptoms in meditators and yogis is congestion or excess energy that overwhelms the body. After long hours of meditation in a yogic posture, there's a tremendous increase of energy in the different auras. If this excess energy turns into congestion in the whole body for a long time like a day, the practitioner will feel tired or fatigued. Then because of this symptom, s/he will meditate more thinking it will improve the condition. What usually happens is that the more s/he meditates, the worse it gets. Why? Because there's more congestion, especially if a person is eating meat and meditating heavily. S/ he will become even more congested"

 

The blue colour was also a suggestion in this same book.

I am not sure what book this is coming from but the quotes above are confusing and not really true in the context of just the quote and perhaps altogether incorrect.

 

As you meditate and as you work in other areas it is true that you will increase your energy. We tend to want to maintain these highs and so we open our centers and do not wish to close them - this cannot be sustained.

Then - as we are used to the physical nature - we tend to open up the 3rd chakra more and more in order to continue to feel real in a sense - we also tend to push our adrenals - and then at a certain point - we simply cannot sustain the physical at this higher vibration.

 

As you begin to cultivate - you naturally want validation that something is happening. The tremendous rise in vibration and clarity (at times) is exciting and you do not expect it to fall away.

 

The third chakra can act as a throttle for your physical space - as you become tired physically, your past experience teaches you to open this chakra more and more in order to invigorate yourself. In many cases this auto response is the exact opposite of what you should do:

 

Say you are falling asleep for lack of energy - you douse yourself with cold water - give yourself light slaps and part of you does what can be called Roostering - pumping yourself up (opening the 3rd chakra). It will take the last cup of energy you have and push it out in a short amount of time - it very rarely works - unless you are able to engage the instinctive aspect as in the case of a lover or danger.

 

If you need to stay awake and you only have a fading energy - cool down all the chakras with a "cool blue" (just know it is a cool blue) while allowing the attention area of your head to stay open at a vibration of "attention, wakefulness and clairity" (just know it is at this color spread).

 

Their is so much nonsense about colors - mainly because the writer has no real clue what they are talking about or they have a very poor translator. In most cases when someone is writing about a color - the color is much finer and far more pale than is generally expressed. In most healthy cases the color being spoken about is clearish and very beautiful - it is nothing like paint or crayons - far more - it is straight out of a rainbow.

 

Any one color has millions of meanings - perhaps trillions - none of them can be taken out of context.

 

Any vibration you wish to utilize is better postulated than imagined - you just "know" it into existence as the vibration containing the elements you with it to have and it requires no effort - the more effort you put into it - the less it will resemble your intention.

 

Think of it like this - "God I would like that incredible cake my mom makes!!"

I takes a split second for several portions of your space to be at the exact vibration of that cake and it takes absolutely no effort at all.

 

Try this - I am tired for some reason - hum - I am going to fill my aura with all the right vibrations in order to calm down where I do not need to be awake and I will wake up in the areas I need to be attentive or aware. Then do some breathing "knowing" that this is taking place.

 

Also - know - that you will be fine and that none of the energy vibrations you wish to have in your space will be beyond your capacities to enjoy them (in the context of your present space / situation).

 

With postulating you cannot get it wrong - it is not an experiment - and at some point you can see afterward what the color is that you postulated. Your moms cake may turn out to be at a very bright orange green violet. Thought Forms will be you next step.

 

You can download for free most of the old Theosophical Society books from The Project Gutenburg - Leadbeater has some of the best stuff on auras and thought forms.

 

Unfortunately - and a warning here - ask if you are not trading the illusion that you do not know for the illusion that you know.

 

A final note:

When I say to just "know" something I am not at all asking you to "will it"'

I am not asking you to become the "eye of mordor" forcing your will on those areas in which you wish to manifest something.

 

This is stupid easy and yet it takes some getting used to.

 

Like - "I"m cooking today and I want my crown chakra to vibrate at "moms chocolate cake"

Your crown chakra will know just what to do and it will not require any willing for it to be at that vibration.

 

I can assure you there is a color for Moms chocolate cake

Edited April 5, 2013 by Spotless

[Birch]

Thanks Spotless. Very much what I was looking for. The book is http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Dangers-Meditation-And-Yoga/dp/0971767637 and I also did not pay 500$ (FTW?) for it.

 

 

[Maddie]

Something that I thought I'd share for consideration. Now from what I understand of Buddhism and Kara theory in general all of your actions for good or bad come back to you. For a while now due to many reasons (more than I care to get into at the moment) I have believed that my most recent past life to the best of my understanding was that of a German soldier during the Second World War. Aside from the familiarity of Germany and my obsession with WWII since childhood, I think it explains a lot of what I have experienced during this life. As is commonly known German soldiers were not known in general for treating people particularly well.

 

Now the way I figure this ties into karma is that in this life up until very recently just about everyone I was close to and/or most situations I found myself in, there was always someone significant in my life being extremely cruel to me, and trying to exert a great deal of power and control over me. As I worked on my solar plexus chakra therefore I had great feelings and images of cruelty come up as I worked through that.

 

Most recently I've been working on my sacral chakra. It has been rather overwhelming to the point of feeling ill and feverish. All sorts of varied and random sexual thoughts, feelings and scenarios seem to be going through my mind and body. Some of them very bizarre. Due to my past experience with my solar plexus and issues of power and control, this has caused me to consider that perhaps that past sexual experiences and karma from past lives are being worked out?

 

This thought raised an even more broad question. Is karma very specific in its manifestations in our current life? What I mean is if in a past life, if you are cruel to others, will that karma you generate work itself out by having other people be cruel to you? If in a past life you were a sexual deviant, will that cause you to have to deal with issues like that in this life? I'm just wondering how specific karma is, and how it plays itself out.

 

** Something else I decided to add that I think is noteworthy. When I first began meditation I was primarily working with the meridians and organs using the Taoist healing sounds. My experience from that was that stuff came up but primarily from experiences earlier in this life, as in from childhood. Now that I'm more chakra focused it seems that more of what comes up is from past lives.

Edited April 12, 2013 by dmattwads

[ChiForce]

Something that I thought I'd share for consideration. Now from what I understand of Buddhism and Kara theory in general all of your actions for good or bad come back to you. For a while now due to many reasons (more than I care to get into at the moment) I have believed that my most recent past life to the best of my understanding was that of a German soldier during the Second World War. Aside from the familiarity of Germany and my obsession with WWII since childhood, I think it explains a lot of what I have experienced during this life. As is commonly known German soldiers were not known in general for treating people particularly well.

 

Now the way I figure this ties into karma is that in this life up until very recently just about everyone I was close to and/or most situations I found myself in, there was always someone significant in my life being extremely cruel to me, and trying to exert a great deal of power and control over me. As I worked on my solar plexus chakra therefore I had great feelings and images of cruelty come up as I worked through that.

 

Most recently I've been working on my sacral chakra. It has been rather overwhelming to the point of feeling ill and feverish. All sorts of varied and random sexual thoughts, feelings and scenarios seem to be going through my mind and body. Some of them very bizarre. Due to my past experience with my solar plexus and issues of power and control, this has caused me to consider that perhaps that past sexual experiences and karma from past lives are being worked out?

 

This thought raised an even more broad question. Is karma very specific in its manifestations in our current life? What I mean is if in a past life, if you are cruel to others, will that karma you generate work itself out by having other people be cruel to you? If in a past life you were a sexual deviant, will that cause you to have to deal with issues like that in this life? I'm just wondering how specific karma is, and how it plays itself out.

 

** Something else I decided to add that I think is noteworthy. When I first began meditation I was primarily working with the meridians and organs using the Taoist healing sounds. My experience from that was that stuff came up but primarily from experiences earlier in this life, as in from childhood. Now that I'm more chakra focused it seems that more of what comes up is from past lives.

Hmmm....from what I understand, past life karma isn't all bad if in your past life, the moment of your death, you have a sudden moral realignment. A sudden moral insight into the nature of your previous existence. Then, the negative effect of your past life karma would be lessened. Why do you think your recent past life of a German soldier is exerting the karmic influence on your current life? Do you have dreams and memories about the past, or the German past? Have you witnessed yourself being killed? Perhaps, with your upbringing and people surrounding you, you may have developed certain "attachment" to the past?

 

Sorry to be blunt but if your past life is exerting some form of karmic influence on you, you should realize that being a soldier you have taken lives. You have killed. Maybe even to have engaged in sexual assault on your enemies. You won't be just dealing with sexual deviants. The greatest karmic force is to have taken lives of sentient beings. From what I read, one recurrent symbol you would find in your dreams is seeing blood on your hands. Another is obviously witnessing yourself being killed, the moment you may have a sudden moral insight or realignment. And the moment you refuse to die. And you should have memories of these because they were the reasons why you have been reborn again in this life.

 

Here are some audio lectures from Bhikkhu Bodhi and he talks about karma and rebirth.

http://www.buddhanet.net/audio-lectures.htm

Edited April 12, 2013 by ChiForce

[Jetsun]

If you buy into that karma theory then you have probably been a doctor too who saved many lives and a priest and a charity worker and a mother. If karma theory is correct then statistically it is likely most of us have been soldiers at one time or another, and atrocities were committed by all soldiers from all nations at certain points, just look at what the English did in the British Empire, what the Americans did to the Native Americans, what the Japanese did in China, what the Chinese did to Tibet. Were all the same so if you come across some difficult Karmic stuff it is still the same challenge of having compassion for yourself despite all that. Just look at the story of Milarepa, he was a mass murderer yet went on to become a Saint, so in comparison most of us are not so bad.

[Spotless]

It is possible to be a soldier and kill quite a few people and incur almost no negative karma. It is even possible to walk off the battlefield with a net positive.

 

Awareness and intent have always been the marker for real justice.

 

Most human action is robotic - the level of karma is often far less than assumed. This is not to trivialize karma.

 

We are so willing to suffer and condemn ourselves - fearing shadows in the future and stains upon our souls - aligning ourselves with anything but the present.

 

Yes - definitely look at Milarepa

[Maddie]

I appreciate all the feed back. I think my mentioning my German soldier theory might have distracted though from what I was really trying to get at. What I'm really wanting to understand is.... if you work on a chakra for example and all sorts of "stuff" (mental impressions, emotions, feelings) come up afterwards. If you can not associate any of these feelings from anything in this life, is this past life stuff that you are dealing with that is in your chakras?

[Spotless]

I appreciate all the feed back. I think my mentioning my German soldier theory might have distracted though from what I was really trying to get at. What I'm really wanting to understand is.... if you work on a chakra for example and all sorts of "stuff" (mental impressions, emotions, feelings) come up afterwards. If you can not associate any of these feelings from anything in this life, is this past life stuff that you are dealing with that is in your chakras?

This is a very complex question. Is it important to associate any of the feelings and assorted sensations with anything?

In a great many cases associations are incorrect and enable the ego to "pin things down" often with a group of assumptions that are incorrect or at best partial truths. This then becomes another set of energies glued within a framework.

 

Looking at the overall texture and scent of what is coming out and about is far more the real re-discovery.

 

Most of your past life is outlined in the obvious - What chakras do you tend to operate from?

What is the quality/design of your equipment (body) its proclivities?

What are your physical, mental and spiritual interests - your families interests - your professional interests??

 

None of the information about your past lives is important - interesting perhaps - but unimportant.

 

Your warehouse of tools is always available to you from your akashic Records and will come to you as you need it - are ready for it.

 

Yes - the stuff coming up could be from your past lives - if you suddenly feel the need to read everything about flute manufacturing in the 16th century - it may just be that you were involved in that and for some reason it has been brought to the surface.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Spotless

[Maddie]

Does it happen sometimes that as you meditate a lot that sometimes you can feel kind of sick afterwards?

[Spotless]

Does it happen sometimes that as you meditate a lot that sometimes you can feel kind of sick afterwards?

I do not recall this ever happening after meditation

 

Perhaps the following story would be of benefit:

 

I went to a movie one morning and not long afterward my head was killing me - (I am a person that just does not get headaches) - hurting so much that I was avoiding driving anywhere.

I tried sleeping and in trying I kept seeing worms, maggots and odd things.

 

Luckily at the time I was able to walk over and see a friend that could take a look clairvoyantly and perhaps see what was going on.

 

We had barely sat down for the reading - and though I had only had time to tell him my head was splitting open - he said out of the blue "something lit up a past life from around the time of the Conquistadors - you were looking through a battlefield some days after the event for a friend and when you found him you pushed his helmet to the side and maggots spilled out"

 

Within moments of hearing what he said my pain was gone. I then realized the movie from the day before - a western - had triggered this past life experience - I then affirmed the seeing of maggots and worms to him and was pretty astonished at how fast this "in and out" reading had been!

 

Less than 10 minutes - one minute to the meat of it and 9 minutes to the end of it.

 

Approx: 28 yrs ago

 

Interestingly - the pain went away with no active awareness on my part of having done anything though I was quite capable at the time of dissipating the energy in the picture / memory. And my friend would not have done any healing / energy work without asking me first. The excruciating pain was gone almost as soon as the words came out of his mouth.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Spotless

[Maddie]

I've begun to notice that with mindfulness insight meditation that as I watch thoughts, especially some thoughts (as in the less pleasant ones) that at first its as thought (or at least it feels this way) that the thoughts don't like being watched. Then after watching them for a bit, I usually sort of break out in a clammy hot/cold sweat.

 

1. Do those thoughts that are part of our conditioning have a consciousness of their own? Is that why they don't like being observed. Might that also explain why people sometimes do things that they'd rather not? Because these aspects of our mental conditioning have a consciousness of their own?

 

2. Why might I break out in a hot/cold clammy sweat after observing some of these unpleasant thoughts after a while?

[Maddie]

As far as I'm aware there are generally two basic types of Buddhist meditation. One where you still the mind, and the other where you observe thoughts. I had been trying a little of both of them, but had noticed that the observing thoughts meditation sometimes would make me feel emotional unrest. Should one do the still the mind meditation for a while first before the thought observation one so that they have a nice quite mind, and so thought observation does not bother them?

[Tibetan_Ice]

As far as I'm aware there are generally two basic types of Buddhist meditation. One where you still the mind, and the other where you observe thoughts. I had been trying a little of both of them, but had noticed that the observing thoughts meditation sometimes would make me feel emotional unrest. Should one do the still the mind meditation for a while first before the thought observation one so that they have a nice quite mind, and so thought observation does not bother them?

Hi D,

There are two basic types of Buddhist meditation. One is shamatha, which is stilling the mind. The other is vispassana, which is 'insight meditation'. It is observing some phenomenon in order to gain knowledge or insight. It is the knowledge that liberates.

 

Watching the breath is one form of stilling the mind. Watching your thoughts is also a method of stilling/calming the mind. However, in your case, I think you are focusing on the content of the thought. In many books on watching thoughts, you do not focus on the content of the thought, you focus on its location, its origin, how long it lasts and you watch it dissolve. It dissolves because you aren't interested or putting energy into the content.

 

So, a thought comes up. You notice if it is a strong thought or a weak one. You notice which location in the mind space it exists in. You see how long the thought is (most thoughts appear as streams or ribbons). You keep watching it, ignoring the content, and then the thought dissolves. You notice the space left behind when the thought dissolves. You keep doing that to all thoughts.

 

Eventually what happens is that you stay in the center of your head (or point of attention) and the thoughts come up and dissolve. This process repeats over and over again, faster and faster, until you are bombarded by thousands of thoughts all appearing and dissolving as fast as they appear. Then, after much practice and remaining centered as the observer, the thoughts all disappear and the mind becomes calm. Shamatha.

 

But if you focus on the content, especially for non-pleasant thoughts, you feed the thought, you keep it going. You are risking forming a chain of conceptual continuation and proliferation of the thought's topic. Hence, even bad emotions and effects will grow when you focus on the content and not the container..

 

In a way, thoughts are your friends. After all, you need something to practice on. The whole point is to be able to have thoughts come up, and not be bothered by them. To remain centered as the observer at all times, not reacting to the thoughts, realize the space/consciousness that the events of 'thoughts' is taking place in.

 

Does that help?

 

TI

[Maddie]

Hi D,

There are two basic types of Buddhist meditation. One is shamatha, which is stilling the mind. The other is vispassana, which is 'insight meditation'. It is observing some phenomenon in order to gain knowledge or insight. It is the knowledge that liberates.

 

Watching the breath is one form of stilling the mind. Watching your thoughts is also a method of stilling/calming the mind. However, in your case, I think you are focusing on the content of the thought. In many books on watching thoughts, you do not focus on the content of the thought, you focus on its location, its origin, how long it lasts and you watch it dissolve. It dissolves because you aren't interested or putting energy into the content.

 

So, a thought comes up. You notice if it is a strong thought or a weak one. You notice which location in the mind space it exists in. You see how long the thought is (most thoughts appear as streams or ribbons). You keep watching it, ignoring the content, and then the thought dissolves. You notice the space left behind when the thought dissolves. You keep doing that to all thoughts.

 

Eventually what happens is that you stay in the center of your head (or point of attention) and the thoughts come up and dissolve. This process repeats over and over again, faster and faster, until you are bombarded by thousands of thoughts all appearing and dissolving as fast as they appear. Then, after much practice and remaining centered as the observer, the thoughts all disappear and the mind becomes calm. Shamatha.

 

But if you focus on the content, especially for non-pleasant thoughts, you feed the thought, you keep it going. You are risking forming a chain of conceptual continuation and proliferation of the thought's topic. Hence, even bad emotions and effects will grow when you focus on the content and not the container..

 

In a way, thoughts are your friends. After all, you need something to practice on. The whole point is to be able to have thoughts come up, and not be bothered by them. To remain centered as the observer at all times, not reacting to the thoughts, realize the space/consciousness that the events of 'thoughts' is taking place in.

 

Does that help?

 

TI

 

Yea that helps a whole lot! Actually doing this seem a bit trick, but at least now I understand what your supposed to be doing better anyways. I suppose that explains why I've favored Shamatha because that one I get. Yea as far as Vispassana goes I was focusing too much on the content and it was stressing me out. So are you saying when a thought comes up you see where and how you feel it, but not to pay attention to the content of the thought?

[Simple_Jack]

As far as I'm aware there are generally two basic types of Buddhist meditation. One where you still the mind, and the other where you observe thoughts. I had been trying a little of both of them, but had noticed that the observing thoughts meditation sometimes would make me feel emotional unrest. Should one do the still the mind meditation for a while first before the thought observation one so that they have a nice quite mind, and so thought observation does not bother them?

 

When in doubt, refer to the Satipatthana (or Maha-Satipatthana) Sutta [http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wayof.html.]

 

In reality, this isn't so complicated once the principles are understood. Some good references are on dharmaoverground:

 

http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1286373

 

http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1191517

 

 

 

Hi D,

There are two basic types of Buddhist meditation. One is shamatha, which is stilling the mind. The other is vispassana, which is 'insight meditation'. It is observing some phenomenon in order to gain knowledge or insight. It is the knowledge that liberates.

 

Watching the breath is one form of stilling the mind. Watching your thoughts is also a method of stilling/calming the mind. However, in your case, I think you are focusing on the content of the thought. In many books on watching thoughts, you do not focus on the content of the thought, you focus on its location, its origin, how long it lasts and you watch it dissolve. It dissolves because you aren't interested or putting energy into the content.

 

So, a thought comes up. You notice if it is a strong thought or a weak one. You notice which location in the mind space it exists in. You see how long the thought is (most thoughts appear as streams or ribbons). You keep watching it, ignoring the content, and then the thought dissolves. You notice the space left behind when the thought dissolves. You keep doing that to all thoughts.

 

Eventually what happens is that you stay in the center of your head (or point of attention) and the thoughts come up and dissolve. This process repeats over and over again, faster and faster, until you are bombarded by thousands of thoughts all appearing and dissolving as fast as they appear. Then, after much practice and remaining centered as the observer, the thoughts all disappear and the mind becomes calm. Shamatha.

 

But if you focus on the content, especially for non-pleasant thoughts, you feed the thought, you keep it going. You are risking forming a chain of conceptual continuation and proliferation of the thought's topic. Hence, even bad emotions and effects will grow when you focus on the content and not the container..

 

In a way, thoughts are your friends. After all, you need something to practice on. The whole point is to be able to have thoughts come up, and not be bothered by them. To remain centered as the observer at all times, not reacting to the thoughts, realize the space/consciousness that the events of 'thoughts' is taking place in.

 

Is this inspired by your personal approach to meditation? Or is this influenced by different sources (particularly B. Alan Wallace?) I'm just trying to understand where it is you're coming from: because there are many different approaches to meditation, especially when it comes to the means of applying 'insight meditation.'

 

I want to address the highlighted part, because in the context of Buddhist meditation, this isn't a determining factor of practice and isn't even relevant. Particularly, in the Theravada tradition, vipasanna is based around the 3 marks (anicca, dukkha, anatta.)

 

I haven't read this book on Munindra, but this is a good summary of the mechanics that make up vipasanna in the Theravada tradition:

 

http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/search/label/Munindra

 

"Whatever we see, it is not I, not me, nor a man, not a woman. In the eye, there is just color. It arises and passes away. So who is seeing the object? There is no seer in the object. Then how is the object seen? On account of certain causes. What are the causes? Eyes are one cause; they must be intact, in good order. Second, object or color must come in front of the eyes, must reflect on the retina of the eyes. Third, there must be light. Fourth, there must be attention, a mental factor. If those four causes are present, then there arises a knowing faculty called eye consciousness. If any one of the causes is missing, there will not be any seeing. If eyes are blind, no seeing. If there is no light, no seeing. If there is no attention, no seeing. But none of the causes can claim, "I am the seer." They're just constantly arising and passing.

 

As soon as it passes away, we say, "I am seeing." You are not seeing; you are just thinking, "I am seeing." This is called conditioning. Because our mind is conditioned, when we hear the sound, we say, "I am hearing." But there is no hearer waiting in the car to hear the sound. Sound creates a wave, and, when it strikes against the eardrum, ear consciousness is the effect. Sound is not a man, nor a woman; it is just a sound that arises and passes away. But, according to our conditioning, we say, "That woman is singing and I am hearing." But you're not hearing, you are thinking, "I am hearing." Sound is already heard and gone. There is no "I" who heard the sound; it is the world of concept. Buddha discovered this in the physical level, in the mental level: how everything is happening without an actor, without a doer - empty phenomenon go rolling on."

[joeblast]

Yea that helps a whole lot! Actually doing this seem a bit trick, but at least now I understand what your supposed to be doing better anyways. I suppose that explains why I've favored Shamatha because that one I get. Yea as far as Vispassana goes I was focusing too much on the content and it was stressing me out. So are you saying when a thought comes up you see where and how you feel it, but not to pay attention to the content of the thought?

Focusing too much on the content of the thought gives it energy - positively or negatively - so if you're trying to attenuate a particular thoughtform, best just deny it energy potential,

 

"leave the front door open, leave the rear door open, but do not invite it to stay for tea."

[Maddie]

Thanks to all who have been contributing good advice on this thread, I've found it to be very useful. Ok so on to issue of the day lol. Yesterday afternoon I sat in Shamatha in half-lotus for 2 hours. Thats the longest stretch at one time I've done, as I usually do several hours a day lately but break it up into hour long sessions. Well it seems that since, including this morning I feel kind of out of it and spacey, plus my knees are quite sore. Is this normal?

[Simple_Jack]

So are you saying when a thought comes up you see where and how you feel it, but not to pay attention to the content of the thought?

 

You have to experiment with this, figuring out which approach is more appropriate depending on the conditions of each particular session. Reading some commentaries to get detailed instructions, helps a lot also. Keep in mind, this will differ between those who follow the pure sutta approach, compared to those who follow the Visuddhimagga and Abhidhamma.

 

 

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/soma/wayof.html

 

"To exercise this power, however, mindfulness must be systematically cultivated, and the sutta shows exactly how this is to be done. The key to the practice is to combine energy, mindfulness, and clear comprehension in attending to the phenomena of mind and body summed up in the "four arousings of mindfulness": body, feelings, consciousness, and mental objects. Most contemporary meditation teachers explain Satipatthana meditation as a means for generating insight (vipassana). While this is certainly a valid claim, we should also recognize that satipatthana meditation also generates concentration (samadhi). Unlike the forms of meditation which cultivate concentration and insight sequentially, Satipatthana brings both these faculties into being together, though naturally, in the actual process of development, concentration will have to gain a certain degree of stability before insight can exercise its penetrating function. In Satipatthana, the act of attending to each occasion of experience as it occurs in the moment fixes the mind firmly on the object. The continuous attention to the object, even when the object itself is constantly changing, stabilizes the mind in concentration, while the observation of the object in terms of its qualities and characteristics brings into being the insight knowledges."

 

"To practice Satipatthana successfully a student will generally require a sound theoretical knowledge of the practice along with actual training preferably under the guidance of a qualified teacher. The best source of theoretical knowledge, indeed the indispensable source, is the Satipatthana Sutta itself. However, though the sutta is clear and comprehensible enough as it stands, the instructions it offers are extremely concise, often squeezing into a few simple guidelines directions that might need several pages to explain in a way adequate for successful practice."

 

 

http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/1286373

 

How Practicing the Establishments of Mindfulness Leads to Meaningful Contemplation

 

"Typically beginning meditators generally find that after a few weeks of practicing they run into a roadblock of some kind. "Nothing really happens when I sit. What should I be doing differently?" More often than not, this impression occurs with practitioners who do not have either a plan of practice to follow or a meditation teacher to guide them or both. They read a few books about meditation, become enthusiastic and decide to practice in order to pursue the benefits of practice, and begin with no firm conceptual purpose or guidance in place. This can also be the case when someone decides to take up Buddhist meditation. Because engaging in a practice based on Buddhist techniques can often be confusing and difficult to fully apprehend if one is not being lead by someone experienced in the practice.

 

One of the first things to look for is: do I have a clear idea about what it is that I am to be doing and where it is going to lead me? Am I able to clearly see and verify the plan of approach so that it is distinctly and conspicuously set in the mind as a plan of action that will help me accomplish my goal: the ending of suffering. If a person has chosen the Buddhadhamma as their path to this goal, it becomes incumbent upon them to fully realize the gravity of their choice if success in the effort is what they seek. This means that one is assumed to have arrived at the full realization that the Path which the Buddha recommended is the Noble Eightfold Path, which means the development of Right View, Right Thought (or Intention), Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, and Right Contemplation (or Concentration). Each of these areas need to be attended to from the very beginning of the practice, right through until formal awakening occurs. After awakening occurs, it is assumed that they will continue to be practiced as a matter of mindful contentment.

 

Those who are not clear about this path would do themselves a favor by reading and comprehending Bhikkhu Bodhi's small book The Noble Eightfold Path, The Way to the End of Suffering. But don't just read it and then set it aside, thinking that it is just a nice set of platitudes which are too difficult for you to focus your attention upon. If you are not willing to take the Noble Eightfold Path seriously, then you are not willing to take the practice itself very seriously either. If, however, you are serious about accomplishing this work, then do yourself a favor and become crystal clear and internally convinced about what it is that you wish to accomplish. Because otherwise, you will only end up sabotaging your own efforts and wasting your time.

 

While reading the suttas about meditation can be helpful and used as a general guide for practice, it can often only make matters seem worse if one is unable to obtain further clarification when needed. Discourses like the Anapanasati Sutta or the Satipatthana Sutta, while they are very inspirational and encouraging, seem like they are for advanced practitioners and don't really seem to give the aspiring beginner any kind of practical idea about how to go about pursuing their instruction. One reads, for instance, about the four tetrads of mindfulness of breathing and becomes anxious. "How am I to practice all of this? I can barely remember the first tetrad while meditating, much less all the rest. My mind is too diffuse. What can I do?" This can become frustrating and demoralizing, leading a lesser mind to just give up.

 

Yet, like anything else in life, one needs to realize that if they start out slow and gradually build up speed, that things are bound to get better. If you take each instruction as its own module and endeavor to develop just that one instruction, then eventually you will end up practicing and developing all the instructions like a master. Buddhist meditation challenges us to accomplish seemingly simple tasks, which in the end can turn out to be more difficult to accomplish than we first imagined."

[joeblast]

what exact method are you using to "still the mind?" I mean I go at it by both fixing the spirit at the seat of awareness and also breath protocol entrainment (which after significant enough attenuation takes place it pretty much becomes LDT energy center breathing...)

[Spotless]

I've begun to notice that with mindfulness insight meditation that as I watch thoughts, especially some thoughts (as in the less pleasant ones) that at first its as thought (or at least it feels this way) that the thoughts don't like being watched. Then after watching them for a bit, I usually sort of break out in a clammy hot/cold sweat.

 

1. Do those thoughts that are part of our conditioning have a consciousness of their own? Is that why they don't like being observed. Might that also explain why people sometimes do things that they'd rather not? Because these aspects of our mental conditioning have a consciousness of their own?

 

2. Why might I break out in a hot/cold clammy sweat after observing some of these unpleasant thoughts after a while?

Regarding 2:

 

Typically if you are looking at "thoughts" or what I refer to as "pictures" and in this you "sort of break out in a clammy hot/cold sweat" you are doing pretty much what Tibetian_Ice explained.

For the most part, when you identify with your thoughts you will not have a skin response - these pictures that you are holding that bring this response are typically what I refer to as "core" pictures. Pictures that often have a great deal of life force compressed upon them.

 

Core pictures may be quite difficult to address with neutrality, but viewing them within the context of meditation and cultivation practices such as Qi Gong is exceptionally opportune. During forms of stillness meditation one will occasionally feel a very clear popping sound or sensation from within the physical form - this is a core picture releasing. This type of release is typically associated with a feeling that the meditation was particularly good and energizing.

 

Generally speaking what is eliciting the skin response is a relatively automated / habituated response for dealing with some "issues" in which your physical response typically triggers the 3rd chakra to motivate energetic change to the picture - with that not yielding the desired result (eradication or change of the picture and the energy stored within it) the adrenals become activated and with this also not yielding the desired result as well then your kundalini may also be aroused.

 

Regarding 1:

 

""Do those thoughts that are part of our conditioning have a consciousness of their own? Is that why they don't like being observed. Might that also explain why people sometimes do things that they'd rather not? Because these aspects of our mental conditioning have a consciousness of their own?""

 

Core pictures can appear to have a life of their own - they can foster an entire re-patterning of your natural original energy system. In most cases they are like rocks in a river - they don't divert the river, but they do institute a work-around. That work around may include the later addition of such signs as "avoid this area!" "Danger - submerged object" "Stay Clear". A whole group of mindless chatter regarding this picture can grow up in support of its covering and obliteration or perhaps in support of some victim dialog. (a great deal of illness is supported by this type of festering).

 

The process of diffusing this stuck energy can take time and considerable effort - it has the energetic texture of eggshell or if you know what a Jaw-Breaker is like - that is what they look like - with the picture inside the core.

 

Fasting, Qi Gong, Holotropic breathing, breathwork and meditation all lend to accelerated breakup of very stuck energetic structures. If you find yourself leaving your practice for a time - it may well be that you hit one of these and a good portion of you wants to avoid it altogether. This is another area that shows the great value of being in a group and having a teacher.

 

--

 

One further note:

 

Whether you practice your meditation in a chair or in a comfortable cross legged position or in a half lotus or a full lotus is of little significance. The value of meditating in a full lotus is far less than 1-100,000th of the what it is believe to be. Of tremendous value is sitting in a spine straight comfortable position. It is also a very good thing not to induce a stroke by forcing yourself to sit in uncomfortable blood stopping positions. Allow yourself to adjust - it is not cheating nor is it giving in to the desires of the body or anything of the sort. Having said this - I hope none of you spontaneously combust

Edited April 25, 2013 by Spotless