Difference between being in 'Pure Land' and 'Clear Light'

[林愛偉]

Wonderful comments, beautiful questions! Thank you for your considerate remarks

 

 

Would you be happy to describe the main PL practices from your tradition?

 

Well, generally there is Single-Minded recitation on the Buddha's name while sitting, standing, walking and lying.

 

Visualization methods of Amitabha in and as your body, sitting atop one's crown, sitting in one's dan tian, sitting in one's 3rd eye.

 

Bowing practices of holding the name, but keeping the mind free from false thinking. Its simply single-minded recitation, with the concentration on calming the heart, removing negative influences in the body and mind, and turning one's senses inward.

 

There is also the Thrice Yearning Ceremony used to offer a method for those in the hells who have the chance to come and listen to the Dharma in hopes that they awaken and can leave that realm. Also for those ghosts and demons and whatnots roaming the earth, passing by the way place causing them to suddenly hear the bell at the ceremony and draw them in to hear the Dharma: Also for those in physical bodies here on earth or elsewhere to come and cultivate merit and virtue in speaking the Dharma and offering up the merit and virtue from it to living beings of the 10 directions. (It gets very deeper than this. Maybe one day I will share a few experiences from this ceremony)

 

 

I thought Buddhists normally viewed the heavenly realms of other traditions as being within the samsaric wheel still as they practitioners usually had not let go of grasping...

 

Yes, and the only reason is because those beings seem to still revolve on the wheel of birth and death, so its a designation of observing the outcomes of those other practices. In this sense, we can see that if those who have affinities with their specific traditions can only hear those principles, then why not utilize those principles to have them turn their understanding in a direction that allows them to practice what they will, and at the same time create affinities with a Buddha or Bodhisattva. For example: Amitabha Buddha appeared in the past, as the god Agni (God of Fire) to those who worshiped fire. Once he taught the methods of fire cultivation, etc, those beings were born in the desire heavens where Agni was present, and once they got there he would reveal the previous expedient as just that, and then take the cultivator to another level. Its like, use one thing to get to the next place, and then further steps are taken to go even farther on the path. The religious methods on this planet are indefinite, and thus are expedients to get living beings back to their original ways. Many distort those teachings on this planet, but hey, that's people and their afflictions.

 

 

Very cool... I know Buddhism as a whole is trying to achieve this, but what would you say is Pure lands particular strong point in helping one towards Nirvana?

 

Their strongest point would be that within the Pure Land, there are no afflictions, no negative body, mouth and mind karma, every where is the constant reminder to cultivate, and everywhere radiates the unobstructed virtue and wisdom of the original nature. It will be utterly impossible to not attain complete enlightenment there, become a Buddha and return as a Bodhisattva to anywhere there is an affinity to go.

 

 

-I dont mean that question as trying to start some 'this is better than that' debate, but rather I think every set of teachings have something that they are really particularly good at, at least for the people suited to it, so I was wondering about PL particular areas of excellence

Being a bit of an Alan Wallace fan I also think concentration is supremely important, and almost always overlooked way to quickly by western Buddhists.

 

I like this question

 

In truth, the strongest practices are only as strong as the cultivator, the weakest just the same.

There can be one who attains their goal within only 1 recitation, or one application of single minded investigation of the Buddha's Name. Yet, it may take another 60 yrs to get anywhere in that practice.

 

Buddha Name Recitation is a strong method, not because its reciting a Buddha's Name, only because its function is to allow the cultivator to directly focus only on their original nature: which is just Limitless Light and Limitless Life.

 

 

 

What are the favoured concentration methods Pure Land Buddhism practices?

 

The most common is the Buddha Name Recitation, and or while, Walking the Buddha Circle ( HAHAHAHA) Basically walking around the Buddha while reciting. Different traditions utilize some of the practices I spoke on as an answer to one of the above questions.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[xabir2005]

Posted this a month ago in my facebook group Dharma Connection:

My Grandma and Amitabha Buddha

I had an early reunion dinner today.

My relatives, who are not Buddhists or devout Buddhists to begin with, recounted my grandmother's passing away. At that time, my grandma has passed away and my relatives were all sleeping at the place where my grandmother was being "chao du" by the monks. At the time of 3am my uncle became lucid in his sleep but had trouble breathing and couldn't move, but felt exhilarating bliss and saw an incredible bright light and Amitabha appeared, extremely (mountain-like) tall... and delivered my grandmother from around the coffin area into the western pure land.

At the same time, my other relatives also recounted seeing Amitabha in the sky in bright light, another relative recounted not seeing Amitabha but a great bright light.

My sister (six years older than me) dreamed later that week that my grandmother became a young male looking person in pure land.

As for myself, I was very small only 5 years old... I don't remember much, only remembered incredible peace I felt when I chanted Amitabha besides my grandmother. And also I remembered she had colorful shariras when her body was cremated.

My grandmother did not understand much of Buddhism, but in the last few years she was very sincere and devouted and liked to chant Diamond Sutra and also Amitabha Buddha.

p.s. again, these relatives are not devouted Buddhists at all, they do not attend dharma classes, or frequent any monasteries or dharma centers. Two of them are not really Buddhists to begin with. Yet they have seen the same thing.

Just a sharing... None of my relatives that have spoken are exactly Buddhists, much less Pure Land Buddhist (and as for my family - we are Buddhists but not Pure Land Buddhists), but I think this is a story worth sharing. I'm sure the Pure Land Buddhists will have many other similar instances to share.

....

Sorry, originally wrote this for my Singapore Buddhist forum... forgot clarify, "chao du" means the monks performing the rites like chanting sutra or Amitabha in dedication to my grandmother, shariras are referring to http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/148850 , http://www.relicsofbuddha.com/eng/page8.htm

....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Land_Buddhism

Going to the Pure Land
Two mural panels depicting The Pure Land of Amitabha held at the Birmingham Museum of Art

Practitioners claim there is evidence of dying people going to the pure land, such as:

Knowing the time of death (預知時至): some prepare by bathing and reciting the name of the Buddha Amitabha.
The "Three Saints of the West" (西方三聖): Amitābha Buddha and the two bodhisattvas, Avalokiteśvara on his right and Mahāsthāmaprāpta on his left, appear and welcome the dying person. Visions of other buddhas or bodhisattvas are disregarded as they may be bad spirits disguising themselves, attempting to stop the person from entering the Pure Land.[28]
Records of practicing Pure Land Buddhists who have died have been known to leave śarīrā, or relics, after cremation.

The last part of the body to become cold is the top of the head (posterior fontanelle). In Buddhist teaching, souls who enter the Pure Land leave the body through the fontanelle at the top of the skull. Hence, this part of the body stays warmer longer than the rest of the body. The Verses on the Structure of the Eight Consciousnesses (八識規矩補註),[29] reads: "to birth in saints the last body temperature in top of head, to deva in eyes, to human in heart, to hungry ghosts in belly, to animals in knee cap, to the hells-realm in sole of feet." See also: phowa.

The dying person may demonstrate some, but not necessarily all, of these evidences. For example, his facial expression may be happy, but he may not demonstrate other signs, such as sharira and dreams.

Few buddhists also have practiced the harder Pratyutpanna samadhi.

The practice Fudaraku Tokai (補陀落渡海) in ancient Japan is viewed as religious suicide and is not practiced today.[30][31]

[xabir2005]

To Seth:

The "ordinary level" of Pure Land has similarities to heaven, except 1) it's not a samsaric realm and beings born there don't get lost in samsara again, 2) even though there isn't suffering there and the 'place' is wonderful, it's not meant to be a place to enjoy life but a place to practise, learn the dharma from Amitabha and get enlightened.

Edited March 11, 2013 by xabir2005

[Seth Ananda]

Wow, thanks lin for the reply {sorry i dont know how to type the Chinese characters for yor name} and thanks for sharing about your grandmother Xabir

 

I have been feeling rather uninspired about Buddhism for a while and ceased practising anything apart from non-meditation. This has given me a pep up...

[Seth Ananda]

Well, generally there is Single-Minded recitation on the Buddha's name while sitting, standing, walking and lying.

 

Visualization methods of Amitabha in and as your body, sitting atop one's crown, sitting in one's dan tian, sitting in one's 3rd eye.

 

Bowing practices of holding the name, but keeping the mind free from false thinking. Its simply single-minded recitation, with the concentration on calming the heart, removing negative influences in the body and mind, and turning one's senses inward.

Thanks again

Can you offer any specifics? I am always interested in these type practices. Also are there practices where you visualise the world or ones surroundings as Pure land or transformed?

There is also the Thrice Yearning Ceremony used to offer a method for those in the hells who have the chance to come and listen to the Dharma in hopes that they awaken and can leave that realm. Also for those ghosts and demons and whatnots roaming the earth, passing by the way place causing them to suddenly hear the bell at the ceremony and draw them in to hear the Dharma: Also for those in physical bodies here on earth or elsewhere to come and cultivate merit and virtue in speaking the Dharma and offering up the merit and virtue from it to living beings of the 10 directions. (It gets very deeper than this. Maybe one day I will share a few experiences from this ceremony)

I love these kind of practices...

Yes, and the only reason is because those beings seem to still revolve on the wheel of birth and death, so its a designation of observing the outcomes of those other practices. In this sense, we can see that if those who have affinities with their specific traditions can only hear those principles, then why not utilize those principles to have them turn their understanding in a direction that allows them to practice what they will, and at the same time create affinities with a Buddha or Bodhisattva. For example: Amitabha Buddha appeared in the past, as the god Agni (God of Fire) to those who worshiped fire. Once he taught the methods of fire cultivation, etc, those beings were born in the desire heavens where Agni was present, and once they got there he would reveal the previous expedient as just that, and then take the cultivator to another level. Its like, use one thing to get to the next place, and then further steps are taken to go even farther on the path. The religious methods on this planet are indefinite, and thus are expedients to get living beings back to their original ways. Many distort those teachings on this planet, but hey, that's people and their afflictions.

 

 

 

Their strongest point would be that within the Pure Land, there are no afflictions, no negative body, mouth and mind karma, every where is the constant reminder to cultivate, and everywhere radiates the unobstructed virtue and wisdom of the original nature. It will be utterly impossible to not attain complete enlightenment there, become a Buddha and return as a Bodhisattva to anywhere there is an affinity to go.

 

 

 

I like this question

 

In truth, the strongest practices are only as strong as the cultivator, the weakest just the same.

There can be one who attains their goal within only 1 recitation, or one application of single minded investigation of the Buddha's Name. Yet, it may take another 60 yrs to get anywhere in that practice.

 

Buddha Name Recitation is a strong method, not because its reciting a Buddha's Name, only because its function is to allow the cultivator to directly focus only on their original nature: which is just Limitless Light and Limitless Life.

Which name do you use? Namo Amitabha?

The most common is the Buddha Name Recitation, and or while, Walking the Buddha Circle ( HAHAHAHA) Basically walking around the Buddha while reciting. Different traditions utilize some of the practices I spoke on as an answer to one of the above questions.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

Thanks again _/\_

[Seth Ananda]

As for the Topic. Some people here seem to think that clear light is somehow some astral space, or even an energy?

 

Berzin Archives has this to say about clear light:

 

 

"Now we’ll talk about the clear light mind. The clear light mind is the subtlest level of mind. That’s what actually is continuing moment to moment to moment. It is not a thing. It is like a movie: one moment after another moment. That’s what continues all the way into enlightenment. What are the qualities of this? The clear light mind has the qualities that we would call Buddha-nature. So what are some qualities of it? There are some qualities that are going to abide, remain the same. For instance, the main thing is that it has the ability to understand, to know things. That’s always going to be the same. Because it can understand, because we can know things, we can become a Buddha. If there wasn’t mind, if there wasn’t that aspect of being able to know, how can you become a Buddha? How can you help anybody?

The other thing that remains all the time is the voidness of the mind: it doesn’t exist in some impossible way. Voidness means an absence of impossible ways of existing. It doesn’t exist encapsulated in plastic, as a thing that never will change, that belongs to “me,” “my” clear light mind – this type of thing. It doesn’t exist in some impossible way. Because it doesn’t exist in an impossible way when we are in samsara, it also doesn’t exist in an impossible way when we are in nirvana. It is the same. The voidness is the same. Because it is voidness, it can be developed into a Buddha-mind."

 

 

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/level4_deepening_understanding_path/buddha_nature/buddha_nature_clear_light_mind/transcript.html

 

 

So being in the pure land would help you move towards realising it...

[林愛偉]

Thanks again

Can you offer any specifics? I am always interested in these type practices. Also are there practices where you visualise the world or ones surroundings as Pure land or transformed?

I love these kind of practices...

Which name do you use? Namo Amitabha?

Thanks again _/\_

"Well, generally there is Single-Minded recitation on the Buddha's name while sitting, standing, walking and lying.

 

Visualization methods of Amitabha in and as your body, sitting atop one's crown, sitting in one's dan tian, sitting in one's 3rd eye.

 

Bowing practices of holding the name, but keeping the mind free from false thinking. Its simply single-minded recitation, with the concentration on calming the heart, removing negative influences in the body and mind, and turning one's senses inward."

Some specifics are just method details of the practices. For example: Buddha Name Recitation:

• Recite in mind while Inhaling to the abdomen, keep focus at the dan tian,
• Exhale while sending the vibration from the mouth to the pineal gland (heavenly eye, third eye.
• Keep the mouth slightly opened, eyes slightly closed.

One can send the recitation to the entire body, or specific places like the chakras, dan tians, organs, etc. A whole body practice is putting it all into one zone, so its kind of better. Then there is simply just reciting, letting it come from the abdomen, dan tian, and just letting it do its work.

 

As for imagining one's environment, etc being the Pure Land, I wouldn't suggest it because it will present a false image, and will be difficult to break later on. Let the awareness of the Pure Land being every where permeate your consciousness. Eventually, where you look, things may seem like a Buddha, or may have a more brighter hue of light around them. This isn't the Pure Land coming here, it is us realizing that the Pure Land is a general name to the fundamental way things truly are. When our false thinking begins to subside and gets further along that route, we begin to see this world as it truly is.

 

I recite it in Chinese Amituofo, sometimes in the sanskrit Amitabha. When I first received Guan Yin's name for practice, I received it by the sanskrit Avalokiteshvara. So I go both ways.. hahaha Depends on how I received the names of those Buddhas and Bodhisattvas do I recite their names.

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[xabir2005]

As for the Topic. Some people here seem to think that clear light is somehow some astral space, or even an energy?

 

Berzin Archives has this to say about clear light:

 

 

"Now we’ll talk about the clear light mind. The clear light mind is the subtlest level of mind. That’s what actually is continuing moment to moment to moment. It is not a thing. It is like a movie: one moment after another moment. That’s what continues all the way into enlightenment. What are the qualities of this? The clear light mind has the qualities that we would call Buddha-nature. So what are some qualities of it? There are some qualities that are going to abide, remain the same. For instance, the main thing is that it has the ability to understand, to know things. That’s always going to be the same. Because it can understand, because we can know things, we can become a Buddha. If there wasn’t mind, if there wasn’t that aspect of being able to know, how can you become a Buddha? How can you help anybody?

The other thing that remains all the time is the voidness of the mind: it doesn’t exist in some impossible way. Voidness means an absence of impossible ways of existing. It doesn’t exist encapsulated in plastic, as a thing that never will change, that belongs to “me,” “my” clear light mind – this type of thing. It doesn’t exist in some impossible way. Because it doesn’t exist in an impossible way when we are in samsara, it also doesn’t exist in an impossible way when we are in nirvana. It is the same. The voidness is the same. Because it is voidness, it can be developed into a Buddha-mind."

 

 

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/level4_deepening_understanding_path/buddha_nature/buddha_nature_clear_light_mind/transcript.html

 

 

So being in the pure land would help you move towards realising it...

The mind of clear light has nothing to do with an astral realm (ordinary level of pure land however are considered by some to be bardo visions or astral realms of some sort, but I digress). It is a pure presence of knowingness, even if no conceptual thoughts or any gross mental or sensory experience arises. When gross activities are shut off during sleep or death, the mind of clear light can reveal in that 'void'. It does happen for me consciously in sleep and it can be incredibly intense and blissful. There was also the sense that I was being absorbed into the heart chakra before it happens. I didn't know the significance of this until later I read that in the bardo of clear light, the winds enter the heart chakra. This luminosity in fact has never been lost at any moment, it is an essential or essence aspect of mind or buddha-nature.

 

Perhaps this glossary definition of luminosity/clear light by Lama Tony Duff would help:

 

Luminosity or illumination, Skt. prabhåsvara, Tib. ’od gsal ba: The core of mind has two aspects: an emptiness factor and a knowing factor. The Buddha and many Indian religious teachers used “luminosity” as a metaphor for the knowing quality of the core of mind. If in English we would say “Mind has a knowing quality”, the teachers of ancient India would say, “Mind has an illuminative quality; it is like a source of light which illuminates what it knows”.

 

This term been translated as “clear light” but that is a mistake that comes from not understanding the etymology of the word. It does not refer to a light that has the quality of clearness (something that makes no sense, actually!) but to the illuminative property which is the nature of the empty mind.

 

Note also that in both Sanskrit and Tibetan Buddhist litera- ture, this term is frequently abbreviated just to Skt. “vara” and Tib. “gsal ba” with no change of meaning. Unfortu- nately, this has been thought to be another word and it has then been translated with “clarity”, when in fact it is just this term in abbreviation.

Edited March 11, 2013 by xabir2005

[Tibetan_Ice]

The mind of clear light has nothing to do with an astral realm (ordinary level of pure land however are considered by some to be bardo visions or astral realms of some sort, but I digress). It is a pure presence of knowingness, even if no conceptual thoughts or any gross mental or sensory experience arises. When gross activities are shut off during sleep or death, the mind of clear light can reveal in that 'void'. It does happen for me consciously in sleep and it can be incredibly intense and blissful. There was also the sense that I was being absorbed into the heart chakra before it happens. I didn't know the significance of this until later I read that in the bardo of clear light, the winds enter the heart chakra. This luminosity in fact has never been lost at any moment, it is an essential or essence aspect of mind or buddha-nature.

 

Perhaps this glossary definition of luminosity/clear light by Lama Tony Duff would help:

 

Luminosity or illumination, Skt. prabhåsvara, Tib. ’od gsal ba: The core of mind has two aspects: an emptiness factor and a knowing factor. The Buddha and many Indian religious teachers used “luminosity” as a metaphor for the knowing quality of the core of mind. If in English we would say “Mind has a knowing quality”, the teachers of ancient India would say, “Mind has an illuminative quality; it is like a source of light which illuminates what it knows”.

 

This term been translated as “clear light” but that is a mistake that comes from not understanding the etymology of the word. It does not refer to a light that has the quality of clearness (something that makes no sense, actually!) but to the illuminative property which is the nature of the empty mind.

 

Note also that in both Sanskrit and Tibetan Buddhist litera- ture, this term is frequently abbreviated just to Skt. “vara” and Tib. “gsal ba” with no change of meaning. Unfortu- nately, this has been thought to be another word and it has then been translated with “clarity”, when in fact it is just this term in abbreviation.

Hi Xabir,

Thank you for posting your experience of 'clear light' during sleep.

Specifically " It does happen for me consciously in sleep and it can be incredibly intense and blissful. There was also the sense that I was being absorbed into the heart chakra before it happens".

 

It is not a metaphor.

 

The clear light experience that I am talking about, which comes from the heart, up into the eyes and out of the face sounds like it is the same phenomenon. Intense bliss, being absorbed into the heart chakra..

 

Perhaps you don't notice the clarity or the luminesence because you are sleeping.. It is hard to tell contrasting scenery in the sleep state as there is nothing to compare the quality or luminescence.

 

When this state occurs for me during the normal waking state, there is intense bliss, clarity, peace, joy, love and the feeling that everything is 'me'.

 

Yes, Seth, it looks like a tunnel of brilliant clear light coming out of your face!

 

The first time it happened to me, I was in the park, in the trails. I had been practising Jack Kornfield's "mind like sky" meditation and was walking back to my car. It was spring time and the leaves were coming out on the trees. I stopped, took a deep breath and admired the new leaves, the bright green color and just loved it. Ahhh!

 

Then, this liquid-like water substance came out of my eyes and pushed forward to the visual field of the emerging leaves. It was like looking through a round tunnel of great clarity, the focal point being the branches with the new-forming leaves. The reason I say clarity is because everything outside of the tunnel looked 'normal', but inside the tunnel, it was so clear, crisp and luminous that it made the 'normal' parts of the visual field seem foggy or dull.

 

The second time this phenomenon happened to me I was at a fast food place. I was standing in line. I had been meditating for 1 hour previously.. I was very relaxed, calm and just enoying the moment. I looked at the various machines on the counter and was admiring the colors, they seemed brighter than normal. Then, all of a sudden, the clear light came out of my face and into the whole visual field. I was everything! I was everyone there, the food workers moving about, taking orders and delivering the food items. I was the counter, the walls, the lights, the people, everything. Again, there was great bliss and clarity. It was like looking at the whole scene in High Definition.

 

The third time it happened, I was reading "Experience and Philosophy" by Merrill-Wolff in the park. The sun was shining, there was a cool breeze and I was reading on the park bench. I read a part in the book about "It is so simple. If you start searching for it, you have already missed it." So, I sat up straight, and tried to become very simple.. That is when it happened. The clear light came out of my face into the visual field again. If I had to describe the place it is coming from, I would say that it is in front of the conceptual mind and behind the outer visual field. In the middle. When it happens, you can detect that the thoughts and voice from the conceptual mind come from the back of the inner space. You can also tell that that whole conceptual mind has been pushed aside, pushed back and that it is trying to expand itself back into the center of the inner space. The whole experience was astounding for me. I was once again looking as a waterous clear luminous shiny substance that was pure love, joy, bliss, luminosity and divine presence. It felt like me, or rather, we were the same being.

 

The fourth time it happened, I was soaping my foot during the morning shower. It was again, the same characteristics. Except, I got more of a chance to examine the state. The monkey mind was shut off. There was no more incessant little voice or cloud of thoughts present. There were one or two thoughts and they were very clear, and they were produced by my mental comment.. like "Wow". "It is happening again". "Yes, I feel like I am the tub, the walls, the soap".. Again, great bliss, clarity, brilliant scenery.. I stood up straight and it went away. I bent over to soap my foot again and it came back.. Delicious~!

 

Xabir, I believe you have access to that bliss in your heart. I can tell because it resonates with me. It comes from the heart. I believe it takes the Kati channel from the heart to the eyes when it manifests.

 

If you were to practice meditating in your favorite out-door scene, and close your eyes, but imagine that you are looking at the scene through your heart, by loving the scene, I wonder if that would help you manifest the same kind of experience? Then you could see that it really does look like clear waterous luminous light, filled with bliss, joy, peace and silence.

 

I have had more experiences with this phenomenon. Two days ago, I was meditating and I experienced a sort of heart opening. I had been loving my breath, during breath meditation. I have found that it is easier to stay focused on the breath if you 'love' it. Well, all of a sudden, my heart chakra started to gush out very fine tingles and energy surges, going up and out into the mental visualization of the breath, in front of my nose. I let it go on, it was again pure bliss, joy, and peace. However, I noticed that the whole conceptual mind was behind again. It is back from where the experience was taking place, in the space of the mind. The conceptual mind is such a horrible thing. It screams out things like "oh no, not this again" or "you are imagining this". The conceptual mind is like a screaming demon, or a spoiled child, screaming out "give me some attention!" "Don't look there, look here!"

 

I really have to push hard to subdue it, relax and change the focus of attention more forward.

I did notice that there was nothing that I would describe as great luminosity or clarity in the scene, though, as everything that I was viewing internally was on the same level of intensity and color level. (Not like viewing the inside and the outside of the tunnel with eyes open out-of-doors).

 

The key is the heart. Love from the heart.

 

TI

Edited March 12, 2013 by Tibetan_Ice

[Seth Ananda]

Thanks for sharing that TI, but I just dont think that is clear light. Sure it is 'an experience' but clear light, at least in everything I have ever read about it is not some 'experience' of a substance or energy flowing out of your face...

 

Sure I might be wrong, but show me some traditional teaching that says clear light is an energy that flows out of your face...

 

I thought clear light was more like: How you perceive naturally when obscuration's are less present, as it has to do with the true nature of mind...

 

I have experienced what I think was possibly clear light several times during dreaming. In each case the experience came on after my dream images suddenly dissolved into open aware luminosity.

Each time, my mind and perceptions were suddenly 'open' empty, and full of clarity and luminosity... And i felt in those moments that I was experiencing the actual nature of mind...

 

Also very blissful and heart moving, but so are lots of things. Unless you can show me something traditional that say clear light comes out of your face, I would say enjoy your experiences but dont jump to premature conclusions as to the nature of them...

Edited March 13, 2013 by Seth Ananda

[Tibetan_Ice]

Thanks for sharing that TI, but I just dont think that is clear light. Sure it is 'an experience' but clear light, at least in everything I have ever read about it is not some 'experience' of a substance or energy flowing out of your face...

 

Sure I might be wrong, but show me some traditional teaching that says clear light is an energy that flows out of your face...

 

I thought clear light was more like: How you perceive naturally when obscuration's are less present, as it has to do with the true nature of mind...

 

I have experienced what I think was possibly clear light several times during dreaming. In each case the experience came on after my dream images suddenly dissolved into open aware luminosity.

Each time, my mind and perceptions were suddenly 'open' empty, and full of clarity and luminosity... And i felt in those moments that I was experiencing the actual nature of mind...

 

Also very blissful and heart moving, but so are lots of things. Unless you can show me something traditional that say clear light comes out of your face, I would say enjoy your experiences but dont jump to premature conclusions as to the nature of them...

 

Hi Seth,

Well, I've been trying to find that type of experience and I did find the 3'rd and 4'th lamps.

I posted about them here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/27308-natural-perfection-longchenpas-radical-dzogchen-clear-light/?hl=lamp#entry409891

 

The lamps indicate that there are channels from the heart to the eyes. They just don't say what type of experience it produces, but if you add it up, I think that is what they are and that is the effect that they produce.

 

And, the fourth lamp, also called the lasoo, is the one that let's you view at a distance, or zoom in on things. It looks like you are looking at whatever you are focusing on as if you were looking through a telescope. I have had that experience twice a few years ago. I wrote about it a few times. It is done by closing the eyes and looking with love from the heart.

 

 

The Six Lamps refers to the basis of all as well as five levels of manifest experience. The six divisions are called lamps because each refers to the same light in one of six different contexts.

 

The first lamp (gnas-pa gzhi-yi sgron-ma) The first lamp is the luminosity of the abiding base, the primordial non-dual presence. It is not personal, not individualized, not localized, not dualistic. It is the luminous aspect that, in inseparable unity with emptiness, is the basis of all experience. If the practitioner recognizes the first lamp— not intellectually but by abiding in innate non-dual awareness— then the basis of all is known in every experience and condition and in the other five lamps. The point of the first lamp is to recognize the light of kunzhi.

 

The second lamp (tsi-ta sha-yi sgron-ma) The second lamp is the “lamp of the flesh heart,” the lamp of the self-arising innate awareness, rigpa, in the dimension of the individual. It is personal only in the sense that it is the pure awareness underlying the moving mind and the sense of subjectivity. It is related to the dharmakaya. It is awareness localized as an individual experiencing. But it is not bound by any constricted identity, although through the delusions of the dualistic mind we have come to experience it as being bound. Although rigpa is not actually localized, many practitioners can most easily recognize it through a connection to the heart center. The Six Lamps specifically discusses this in terms of the space inside of the physical heart. Westerners often find this strange, but it’s similar to what we mean when we say that “in” each being is the nature of mind. The nature of mind is not individual and not localized. It is truer to say that we exist in the nature of mind than to say the nature of mind is in us. But in our experience it is easier to recognize the nature of mind if we go “in” to the deepest place in ourselves, the heart. This is why we say that the rigpa resides in the heart, and why the heart is the center of the life-force prana and why love is always connected to the heart. Thus we talk about the “light of the heart”. The point of the second lamp is to recognize the light of innate awareness within.

 

The third lamp (dkar-’ jam tsa-yi sgron-ma) The third lamp is the “lamp of the soft white channel.” It is rigpa and the prana of rigpa as it moves in the channels of the body, particularly the channel that connects the heart to the eyes. It is associated with the sambhogakaya. The third lamp is the rigpa as it pervades, as it seems to move from the heart center throughout experience. Rigpa is not a substance and does not move. Rigpa abides in the heart, unmoving like the dharmakaya, but here it seems to be moving. The movement in the third lamp is actually the liveliness of rigpa. It is the life-force prana. It is the wisdom of rigpa, which pervades everywhere. Although rigpa does not move, there is movement in rigpa and rigpa can be experienced in movement. The practitioner who is distracted from the nature of mind can seem to be far from rigpa but no one can ever be truly separated from his or her own nature. We find ourselves unable to recognize rigpa even though it is the awareness underneath the search, the searcher, and the not finding. Because we seem to lose connection to pure presence, we need to go back into ourselves, into the heart, into the center of experience. If the practitioner recognizes the essence in the first lamp or abides in rigpa in the second lamp, in the apparent movement of the third lamp he or she will continue to abide in pure presence and the movement will be integrated with the nature of mind. The point of the third lamp is to recognize the light of the penetrating wisdom as it moves through the channels.

 

The fourth lamp (rgyang-zhag chu-yi sgron-ma)

The fourth lamp is the “water lamp that lights the distance.” It is the innate awareness experienced through the senses, particularly the eye (the water lamp). The teaching relates the fourth lamp to the nirmanakaya. For the practitioner, this lamp is found in the first moment of sensory experience, before the conceptual mind shapes the raw sense data into apparent entities and things. For most beings identified with the moving mind, this first moment of experience is like a very brief moment of blankness. But for the practitioner who has been introduced to the nature of mind, the first moment of any experience allows direct recognition of the innate non-dual awareness of rigpa. The point of the fourth lamp is to see the light of naked awareness before experience is divided into particular forms or entities.

 

The fifth lamp (zhing khams ngo-sprod sgron-ma) The fifth lamp is the “lamp of introduction to the pure land.” It is the light of rigpa as it manifests as luminous, apparently external objects and visions. When the practitioner abides in the primordial awareness of the first lamp, the objects that arise to the senses remain pure and non-dual. This is known as “cutting doubt in the three bodies (kayas).” One of the symbols used in teaching Dzogchen is the hollow doll, an empty shell with holes in it where the senses would be in a person: eyes, ears, mouth, and nose. In a dark room, a lit candle is placed inside the doll. There is light in the center of the doll, light moving throughout the doll, and light illuminating what is external to the doll— it is all the same light. Like the explanation in The Six Lamps, this points to the luminosity of primordial awareness as it is recognized in different contexts. The light from inside the doll illuminates what is external to it. This is the opposite of the way we think in the West, where it is believed that the world comes into us through the senses. In the Tibetan tradition, it is believed that the awareness experiences through the senses. It is important to remember that what appears to be outside is actually phenomena arising in awareness. Experience is non-dual; subject and object arise together. They are divided into internal self and external object only conceptually— the light is not actually divided within or without. In reality both poles of duality are empty, luminous phenomena arising in the nature of mind. This is the point of the fifth lamp— that the light of naked non-dual awareness lies under the apparent division into subject and object.

 

The sixth lamp (bar-do dus-kyi sgron-ma) The sixth lamp is the lamp of the bardo, the intermediate state after death and before rebirth. The visions and experiences that arise in the bardo are karmically determined manifestations of our own minds, as are the experiences in this life. For the practitioner who recognizes their true nature, there is liberation. For the person who does not recognize the visions as self-arising, one vision eventually dominates and the individual is led to the realm and specific situation of his or her next rebirth in cyclic existence. The point of the sixth lamp is the recognition of the light of samsara and nirvana. The central teaching of The Six Lamps is that everything— every experience, every thought, every identity— is the manifestation of the pure, luminous basis of existence. One must recognize this and abide in the recognition.

 

Though The Six Lamps does not speak of five lights, the luminosity that it is describing is the five pure lights of the elements. This is what is to be understood, recognized, and lived in. The luminosity in the first lamp is unbound pure presence. The succeeding lamps are the fundamental pure presence abiding in the heart, arising as individual experience, operating in the senses, manifesting as phenomenal appearance, and finally appearing as the bardo visions. The light that illuminates and is each of these varied experiences is the same sacred light, the innate non-dual awareness. Dzogchen teachings say that all gross and subtle visions— whether the outer visions of mountains and buildings and so on or the internal visions that arise in meditation and spiritual practice— arise from the five pure lights. One needs support to experience the five pure lights internally, the support of practice and the teachings. Through the grosser external visions, one tries to experience the subtle. Through experience of the subtle vision, one tries to recognize the pure luminosity— the five pure lights— in all external visions.

 

For the practice of Dzogchen, one must learn to abide in the realization of the first lamp through all experience. We can meditate in a shrine room and have experiences of emptiness, clarity, and bliss. And then get up and walk to the store and become involved with someone and lose ourselves in the interaction. But the awareness underlying both the meditative experience and the distractions of our daily lives is what we must recognize and abide in. When we abide in rigpa, what we experience as external is less substantial. Our identities are less substantial. Our problems are less substantial. We experience rigpa everywhere; there is no difference between inside and outside the body. There is no difference between meditation and non-meditation. We experience rigpa through the senses. This is not done with the senses; what is experienced with the senses are the sense objects. Experiencing rigpa through the senses has nothing to do with sense objects; it is about connecting to the inner light— abiding in rigpa— and staying connected during sensual experiences. Dzogchen isn’t really about the personal. It is concerned with space and light, with emptiness and non-dual awareness, more than with the development of qualities. Dzogchen truly begins as a path when the first lamp is recognized, and it isn’t the property of Tibetans or Westerners, of humans or non-humans. What is realized is the nature of every being.

 

 

Rinpoche, Tenzin Wangyal (2002-05-25). Healing with Form, Energy, and Light: The Five Elements in Tibetan Shamanism, Tantra, and Dzogchen (Kindle Locations 2810-2823). Shambhala Publications. Kindle Edition.

 

So, I wouldn't call it a premature conclusion.. I would just like to find someone else who is having the same experiences so that I can compare notes..

 

But, yes, it really is a clear luminous watery substance that comes out of the eyes..

 

TI