Buddhist and Taoist energy cultivation differences

[Shagrath]

As I read over the internet and on this forum, that main differences are that buddhists tend to approach the cultivation from the angle that we should eliminate all inner blockages so the infinite energy can flow through us, while on the other hand taoists tend to strengthen energies inside them in order to eliminate blockages and ultimately connect to infinite energy.

 

Also, as I have understood that buddhists focus more on packaging energy in tendons, ligaments, bone marrow and nervous system (yi jin jing and xi sui jing), while taoists in dan tiens, qi jing ba mai, jing, qi, shen etc. Under 'focus more" I don't mean ignore rest

 

And both have lots of meditations for transcending mind to become one with Tao or to reach Emptiness.

 

It seems to me that all this is ultimately the same just approached through different perspective. What are your thoughts?

 

 

 

 

Please correct me with your deeper understanding, I really want to dive deeper into this.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Shagrath

[hydrogen]

I think the main difference is utilization of sexual energy (leave Tibetan buddhaism out. they're hybrid).

 

Ultimately it's the mind that needs to be tamed. Buddhasm start from mind to purify the rest. It's the top down approach.

 

Taoism start from the low physical level to train the mind at the end.

[Shagrath]

Thanks! But what about in Shaolin they do muscle/tendon changing and marrow/brain washing next to intensive meditations. Those are practices for physical body and they are considered to have alchemical properties.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Shagrath

[skydog]

I could be wrong here, but to me buddhism seems more anti-life than taoism...buddhism seems about escaping samsara and becoming somebody your not (yet) Taoism seems to be more about relaxing into the flow and who/what you are already

[Maddie]

I can only speak from personal experience but in the past I was more Taoist focused and now I'm more Buddhist focused, though I always incoorperate aspects from both. To me the Taoist approach was more "technical". What I mean is that you consciouly manipulate your meridians, qi, ect.. through active conscious effort. While in Buddhism you are less "technical" and tend to "let things happen".

 

Just thought I'd make a comment on Sinansenncer's post about becoming something that your not in Buddhism. It's my understanding that in Buddhism your actually trying to realize your true nature, and become what you really are, and just don't yet realize it. Though I do agree that Buddhism is about escaping samsara.

[Shagrath]

I could be wrong here, but to me buddhism seems more anti-life than taoism...buddhism seems about escaping samsara and becoming somebody your not (yet) Taoism seems to be more about relaxing into the flow and who/what you are already

 

I would not fully agree with you on that. Buddhism tries to free you from illusion through reaching the state of Emptiness while in Taoism you tend to become one with the Tao. Same thing different words.

 

But like I said in first post I am more interested in energy cultivation differences rather in spiritual.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Shagrath

[Maddie]

I would not fully agree with you on that. Buddhism tries to free you from illusion through reaching the state of Emptiness while in Taoism you tend to become one with the Tao. Same thing different words.

 

But like I said in first post I am more interested in energy cultivation differences rather in spiritual.

 

Taoism is quite varied but in a very general sense both Buddhists and Taoists attempt to cultivate essence into qi and then qi into shen and raise that energy to the upper dan tien in order to cultivate spitituallity. The methods used may be different, but the end goal is the same.

[RongzomFan]

I think the main difference is utilization of sexual energy (leave Tibetan buddhaism out. they're hybrid).

 

 

Hybrid?

[RongzomFan]

Please correct me with your deeper understanding, I really want to dive deeper into this.

 

 

In Vajrayana, winds and mind are the same thing, so if the winds move subtlety that is considered "subtle mind".

 

Thus we have stuff like trul khor, tummo and karmamudra which are considered superior to contrived meditation. All this stuff was invented by the Indian Mahasiddhas (Buddhas in their own right).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasiddha

Edited February 15, 2013 by alwayson

[RongzomFan]

I could be wrong here, but to me buddhism seems more anti-life than taoism...buddhism seems about escaping samsara and becoming somebody your not (yet) Taoism seems to be more about relaxing into the flow and who/what you are already

 

First of all, taoism merely seems to be a Chinese rip off of Buddhism.

 

Every taoist text, including early ones, are full of Buddhist concepts.

 

 

Second of all, in Vajrayana you bang chicks, drink booze and eat good food. Doesn't seem anti-life.

Edited February 15, 2013 by alwayson

[konchog uma]

@sinancenser

escaping a cycle of suffering and being anti-life don't really fit together. Seems pro-life to liberate oneself. also, the idea is to become what you actually are (and always were) not what you aren't yet.

 

@alwayson

Jolan Chang writes that within Tibetan vajrayana, the physical practices of highest yoga tantra, like semen retention, internal orgasm for men, etc, were called "the chinese practices". He was a daoist of course, and everyone seems to like to write about how their tradition is completely awesome, but nonetheless, its possible that vajrayana incorporated elements of daoism and chinese thought. ultimately both daoism and buddhism have roots that are lost in prehistory, so its immaterial to engage in speculation about whether one sprung from the other. Oral tradition traces both to great antiquity.

Edited February 15, 2013 by konchog uma

[RongzomFan]

@alwayson Jolan Chang writes that within Tibetan vajrayana, the physical practices of highest yoga tantra, like semen retention, internal orgasm for men, etc, were called "the chinese practices". He was a daoist of course, and everyone seems to like to write about how right their tradition is, but nonetheless, its possible that vajrayana incorporated elements of daoism and chinese thought. ultimately both daoism and buddhism have roots that are lost in prehistory, so its immaterial to engage in speculation about whether one sprung from the other. Oral tradition traces both to great antiquity.

 

This is just utter crap. We have all the roots of Vajrayana. Its pretty clear.

 

Read:

 

"Indian Esoteric Buddhism" by Davidson

"Tantric Body" by Flood

"Cakrasamvara Tantra" by Gray

Edited February 15, 2013 by alwayson

[三江源]

First of all, taoism merely seems to be a Chinese rip off of Buddhism.

 

Every taoist text, including early ones, are full of Buddhist concepts.

 

 

Second of all, in Vajrayana you bang chicks, drink booze and eat good food. Doesn't seem anti-life.

 

 

I thought of leaving the cultural naievete of 'rip off' to sit quietly in the corner...

 

but what ho, here we have 'bang chicks' as well... I'm unsure as to what drove you to choose this phrase. It's a phrase derived from a certain mind set that misses subtleties of any kind.

 

Are you saying 'rip off' and 'bang chicks' out of crassness,perhaps you are in a derisive mood - or are you making a point about something by using such aggressive and reductive language?

[RongzomFan]

This scholar uses the word "plagiarism"

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=2HS1DOZ35EgC&pg=PA280&dq=Taoism+copy+of+buddhism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=THYeUay1BLOt0AH2o4DoDQ&ved=0CF4Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=Taoism%20copy%20of%20buddhism&f=false

[三江源]

This scholar uses the word "plagiarism"

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=2HS1DOZ35EgC&pg=PA280&dq=Taoism+copy+of+buddhism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=THYeUay1BLOt0AH2o4DoDQ&ved=0CF4Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=Taoism%20copy%20of%20buddhism&f=false

The word for plagiarism is plagiarism, yes.

 

The scholar would explicate clearly to substantiate use of that term.

[RongzomFan]

you are losing me

 

He also uses the phrase "direct imitation"

Edited February 15, 2013 by alwayson

[三江源]

you are losing me

 

He also uses the phrase "direct imitation"

 

ac·cul·tur·a·tion (-klch-rshn)

n.

1. The modification of the culture of a group or individual as a result of contact with a different culture.

[RongzomFan]

He doesn't use that word.

 

 

So Taoism is a "direct imitation" and "plagiarism" of Buddhism.

[三江源]

He doesn't use that word.

 

 

So Taoism is a "direct imitation" and "plagiarism" of Buddhism.

"HE"... is this the bloke in the corner shop?

 

or what?

[RongzomFan]

"He" is the author of the book I cited.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=2HS1DOZ35EgC&pg=PA280&dq=Taoism+copy+of+buddhism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=THYeUay1BLOt0AH2o4DoDQ&ved=0CF4Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=Taoism%20copy%20of%20buddhism&f=false

Edited February 15, 2013 by alwayson

[三江源]

"He" is the author of the book I cited.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=2HS1DOZ35EgC&pg=PA280&dq=Taoism+copy+of+buddhism&hl=en&sa=X&ei=THYeUay1BLOt0AH2o4DoDQ&ved=0CF4Q6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=Taoism%20copy%20of%20buddhism&f=false

ah, thankyou. And what others have you read in order to give you a balanced overview and meaningful voice on this topic?

[Shagrath]

So...

 

In many books on Shaolin practice (they are Buddhists) I have found that they are talking just about Ba Duan Jin, Yi Jin Jing and Xi Sui JIng. That they focus on clearing energy blockages from body and packaging energy to tendons, ligaments and bone marrow and lower dan tien so they become better "conductors" of energy.

 

While in Taoist practices there are much more detailed "energetic anatomy". They focus on strengthening all 3 dan tiens, central channel, 8 extraordinary channels, nourish heaven (stars, sun, moon), earth (soil, water, wind), man (jing, qi, shen), fire-water, whole Mantak Chia program, etc.

 

Are these correct information? Do you have something to add to this? Is there anything else that I should consider for understanding better these practices?

[RongzomFan]

Forget about Chinese Buddhism. Follow what scholars call Indo-Tibetan Buddhism.

[konchog uma]

This is just utter crap. We have all the roots of Vajrayana. Its pretty clear.

 

Read:

 

"Indian Esoteric Buddhism" by Davidson

"Tantric Body" by Flood

"Cakrasamvara Tantra" by Gray

 

lol i said the roots of buddhism not vajrayana. the bon oral tradition according to lopon tenzin namdak lists the previous buddhas of 20 or so world ages gone back.. thats prehistory. Shakyamuni wasn't the originator of buddhism or the first buddha. Thats what im talking about lol

Edited February 16, 2013 by konchog uma

[RongzomFan]

This is the nonsense I was responding to:

 

"@alwayson Jolan Chang writes that within Tibetan vajrayana, the physical practices of highest yoga tantra, like semen retention, internal orgasm for men, etc, were called "the chinese practices". He was a daoist of course, and everyone seems to like to write about how right their tradition is, but nonetheless, its possible that vajrayana incorporated elements of daoism and chinese thought."

Edited February 16, 2013 by alwayson