Is there such thing as a "life purpose" outside of the one we create for ourselves?

[Unseen_Abilities]

Do you believe each human is "put on this Earth" to fulfil some role as part of a "Divine Plan"? Do you believe that there is in fact no purpose to any of this, and that our existence is meaningless outside of whatever meaning we may create for ourselves? Maybe you believe that our purpose is to reach the highest level of spiritual development possible, become one with God, and help others do the same? Or maybe you don't believe God exists? Maybe you simply view our species as nothing more than a chance occurrence, a tiny speck in an infinite nothingness, and maybe you find peace in that...It seems part of our nature to seek purpose in life, to feel like there's some point to all of this - Is there or isn't there?

 

I'm yet to come reach an answer to this question, but if you have any ideas I'd love to hear them.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2013 by T.S

[C T]

"Gazing into the ancient mirror,

form and reflection see each other.

You are clearly it,

but it is not you." -- Dogen

 

 

Good wishes on your reflections.

[GrandmasterP]

Possibly.

Who knows?

;-)

[suninmyeyes]

Yes there is puropse .

We all exist becouse of each other , we are interdependant and life is as it is becouse of us . Us - as in whole universe .

Also , no there is no purpose .

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

in addition to suninmyeyes' post: the "us" is [a] 1-D.


The pleonasm of a self perpetuating experiential amalgamation...

Edited February 16, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[GreytoWhite]

“Plato says that the unexamined life is not worth living. But what if the examined life turns out to be a clunker as well?”
― Kurt Vonnegut, Wampeters, Foma and Granfalloons

[Birch]

Where do we get the idea that a purpose of any kind is necessary? I was often told to make myself useful, but it was to someone else's benefit.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i wish only to be useful unto myself and those that i care about.


To that end, in and of itself, i do require intrinsic purpose... fulfilling this chosen purpose proves short the realm of possibility...

Might be shifting toward success here in recent days... but i am reading "hopefulness" as "gullibility" as well at this point, yet still cant help but be full of hope that it works out favorably.


Hope is not an expectation in this case but an acknowledged desire for a specific outcome, however without expectation or foreknowledge... just... wantfulness.

[Flolfolil]

i think the whole purpose/divine plan thing just leads people to delusionary justification of the things they already wanted to do

[zanshin]

yes, fight, flight, food and another f-word. Deeply hardwired imperatives for all living creatures. I don't know that our species is special. Maybe if we were created on purpose, it's a negative purpose. We seem to be pretty good at hacking up things for other species and the planet in general.

[3bob]

Symbolism of Nataraja, The Lord Of The Universal Dance

by Jayaram V

 

"The symbolism of Siva Nataraja is religion, art and science merged as one. In God's endless dance of creation, preservation, destruction and paired graces is hidden a deep understanding of our universe. Aum Namah Sivaya. - Dancing with Siva

Else where we have discussed the meaning and symbolism of the dance of Nataraja. In this article we will try to cover a few more aspects. Nataraja is Siva in the form of the Lord of the Dance. He represents the combined might of the dynamic universal energy and the awakened Brahman or Saguna Brahman. He is the source of all life, activity (chetana) and vibration (spandana). His dance is the dance of creation. The circle of fire that surrounds Him is His primal energy that flows out of Him and again into Him. The being lying at His feet is the jiva or the deluded soul whom he shapes through a painful process of karma and suffering and liberates Him in the end from bondage. His dance is rhythmic, regular and perfect. It is the Rtam (rhythm) of divine perfection, which is hidden in the entire universe as an underlying current or subtle vibration. It manifests itself in many things, in the regularity of the seasons, the movement of the planets, the cyclical nature of creation, the physical, chemical and biological laws of our universe, the biorhythms of our bodies and the constitution of our cells, molecules and atoms.

The duality or multiplicity of objects in the image is for the beholder but in truth it is one complete image of the supreme Siva. Whatever that may appear to us as separate parts of one image is but an illusion that arises because of our experience of duality. The energy or shakti that manifests out of Him as a ring of fire is not separate from Him because it cannot hold itself or survive without Him. So is the apasmaramurthy under His feet. If you look carefully, the being is not separate from Siva. It is connected with Him as well as with the rest of the creation. The idea that he is suffering being crushed by the feet of Siva is an illusion of our minds, a projection of our thought and an idea that exists in our minds because when we look at the image of Nataraja we, as limited beings, identify ourselves with the apasmaramurthy lying at His feet, but not with Siva, the dancer. The circle of His energy starts from there and also ends there. There in lies the mystery. The whole of the image is an assurance to us that creation is not a chaotic and accidental phenomena but a guided and rhythmic movement under the mastery and control of the eternal self and that we too can become masters of our own movements and action by liberating ourselves from the limitations of smallness (anava) and delusion (apasmara)."

 

(from http://www.saivism.net/articles/nataraja.asp )

 

Om

Edited February 16, 2013 by 3bob

[三江源]

Love that, 3bob, thankyou.

 

Reading that makes the forum list of topics look like a dance of creation and destruction play.

 

The duality or multiplicity of objects in the image is for the beholder but in truth it is one complete image ....

[skydog]

I watched these videos in my friends house about psychologists who do past/future life regression/progression, and how they all have extremely similar experiences and in between lifes they meet with their soul group and light beings, and review their lifes and mistakes etc and for example some people spend many lives trying to get over jealousy for example

 

Perhaps the meaning of life can only ever be now, because in a way life is only here, now.

 

Perhaps its whatever you want it to mean

 

But if your feeling down/lost as I have felt in the past and I dont maybe it will come again know its just a blockage of energy, right now is heaven if there is some kind of blockage you will start to feel anxious about "some issue" feel meaningless, feel this way, that way, in a way thats a blockage of some kind, yuen method can be good for that or you can just be with it, pain is not pain in the present moment.

 

Just my thoughts

[Unseen_Abilities]

Hey sinan, those videos you saw sound interesting - any of that stuff on YouTube?

 

Yeah, everything has been a little confuzzling for me lately, dealing with some stuff. A lot of people here mention Yuen Method but I don't know anything about it, could you go into some more detail? Can you learn it from DVD's etc? How does it work?

[dawei]

The purpose is in the varied arising. The meaning is that source and self are one.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

"what is the purpose?"

What is the purpose of 10,000 identical two sided "things" that do little more than exist and change "face" or side.

2^10,000 experiences. that is the purpose.


Edit: calculator broke nevermind

Edited February 21, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[skydog]

Hey sinan, those videos you saw sound interesting - any of that stuff on YouTube?

 

Yeah, everything has been a little confuzzling for me lately, dealing with some stuff. A lot of people here mention Yuen Method but I don't know anything about it, could you go into some more detail? Can you learn it from DVD's etc? How does it work?

 

 

Hi T.S

 

Yeh here is some, plus extra ones unrelated you may enjoy got me pretty shocked, sorry to go slightly offtopic but man they were cool lol

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkfioB6kRss&playnext=1&list=PLF5DB94A402AFB494&feature=results_main

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A5EFFZ-W7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A5EFFZ-W7s

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=medium+lisa+williams&oq=medium+lisa&gs_l=youtube-reduced.1.0.0l4.12821.15721.0.17009.11.9.0.2.2.0.81.527.9.9.0...0.0...1ac.1.R6fO43HtSd0

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=The+psychic+twins&oq=The+psychic+twins&gs_l=youtube.3..0l10.22912.28270.0.28560.19.12.1.6.6.0.87.740.12.12.0...0.0...1ac.1.lrRqdAWdrks

 

I see, fair enough, that will clear up now, also thats lower chakra stuff, Im feeling your like me, youve got the upper chakras developed sort of needing balance of lower chakras. So that yoga video will help too, doing spontaneous movements will help as well because you will probably start doing a lot of grounding stuff like squats, lunges, etc.

 

 

This is pretty good for lower chakras the exercise 15 minutes hopping and 15 minutes still.

 

Spend time in nature/sun. Walking etc

 

The Yuen Method is about the midline going up and down the front/back between the perineum and the collar bone, and noticing the areas blocked when you focus on a specific issue/weakness or you can set the intent and focus on issue. It is very difficult for me to describe. The book is here though well worth buying and I also find this one extremely powerful. Clarity and Chris D seem to be pretty good with the Yuen Method, you may want to PM them, I am just starting out with it have noticed a lot of effects.

 

http://yuenmethod.com/products/basic-level-1-course-manual

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Healing-Code-Minutes-Success-Relationship/dp/1444727710

 

Peace man, Im off for now

[NormalGuy]

I came across a book called 'Journey of Souls' written by a psychologist who did past life regression on his patients and he mentions that the purpose is to grow our soul and living a life on earth is one of the ways in which we do this. From what I understood from his book it seems that we are all trying to remember the truth and by over coming obstacles here on earth we grow our soul and become a more enlighted being. We may need several lifetimes to get over anger or some other negative emotion. The conditions in the soul realm are not so conducive for this because everything is seems so wonderful. The motivation is greater on earth.

 

The book seems similar to the videos that Sinan saw and the funning thing is, is that all the people interviewed say the same things. Sinan it would be great if you post a link to the videos.

 

Personally though I can't remember ever having being a light being in the astral world.

[9th]

The ways are opposed to everyday life, based upon other principles and subject to other laws. In this consists their power and their significance. In everyday life, even in a life filled with scientific, philosophical, religious, or social interests, there is nothing, and there can be nothing, which could give the possibilities which are contained in the ways. The ways lead, or should lead, man to immortality. Everyday life, even at its best, leads man to death and can lead to nothing else. The idea of the ways cannot be understood if the possibility of man's evolution without their help is admitted.

"How should evolution be understood?"

"The evolution of man," G. replied, "can be taken as the development in him of those powers and possibilities which never develop by themselves, that is, mechanically. Only this kind of development, only this kind of growth, marks the real evolution of man. There is, and there can be, no other kind of evolution whatever.

"In order to understand the law of man's evolution it is necessary to grasp that, beyond a certain point, this evolution is not at all necessary, that is to say, it is not necessary for nature at a given moment in its own development. To speak more precisely: the evolution of mankind corresponds to the evolution of the planets, but the evolution of the planets proceeds, for us, in infinitely prolonged cycles of time. Throughout the stretch of time that human thought can embrace, no essential changes can take place in the life of the planets, and, consequently, no essential changes can take place in the life of mankind.

"Humanity neither progresses nor evolves. What seems to us to be progress or evolution is a partial modification which can be immediately counterbalanced by a corresponding modification in an opposite direction.

"Humanity, like the rest of organic life, exists on earth for the needs and purposes of the earth. And it is exactly as it should be for the earth's requirements at the present time.

"Only thought as theoretical and as far removed from fact as modem European thought could have conceived the evolution of man to be possible apart from surrounding nature, or have regarded the evolution of man as a gradual conquest of nature. This is quite impossible. In living, in dying, in evolving, in degenerating, man equally serves the purposes of nature — or, rather, nature makes equal use, though perhaps for different purposes, of the products of both evolution and degeneration. And, at the same time, humanity as a whole can never escape from nature, for, even in struggling against nature man acts in conformity with her purposes.

The evolution of large masses of humanity is opposed to nature's purposes. The evolution of a certain small percentage may be in accord with nature's purposes. Man contains within him the possibility of evolution. But the evolution of humanity as a whole, that is, the development of these possibilities in all men, or in most of them, or even in a large number of them, is not necessary for the purposes of the earth or of the planetary world in general, and it might, in fact, be injurious or fatal. There exist, therefore, special forces (of a planetary character) which oppose the evolution of large masses of humanity and keep it at the level it ought to be.

"But, at the same time, possibilities of evolution exist, and they may be developed in separate individuals with the help of appropriate knowledge and methods. Such development can take place only in the interests of the man himself against, so to speak, the interests and forces of the planetary world. The man must understand this: his evolution is necessary only to himself. No one else is interested in it. And no one is obliged or intends to help him. On the contrary, the forces which oppose the evolution of large masses of humanity also oppose the evolution of individual men. A man must outwit them. And one man can outwit them, humanity cannot. You will understand later on that all these obstacles are very useful to a man; if they did not exist they would have to be created intentionally, because it is by overcoming obstacles that man develops those qualities he needs.

"The advantage of the separate individual is that he is very small and that, in the economy of nature, it makes no difference whether there is one mechanical man more or less. We can easily understand this correlation of magnitudes if we imagine the correlation between a microscopic cell and our own body. The presence or absence of one cell will change nothing in the life of the body. We cannot be conscious of it, and it can have no influence on the life and functions of the organism. In exactly the same way a separate individual is too small to influence the life of the cosmic organism to which he stands in the same relation (with regard to size) as a cell stands to our own organism. And this is precisely what makes his 'evolution' possible; on this are based his 'possibilities.'

"In speaking of evolution it is necessary to understand from the outset that no mechanical evolution is possible. The evolution of man is the evolution of his consciousness. And 'consciousness' cannot evolve unconsciously. The evolution of man is the evolution of his will, and 'will' cannot evolve involuntarily. The evolution of man is the evolution of his power of doing, and 'doing' cannot be the result of things which 'happen.'

[NormalGuy]

Hi Sinan,

 

Sorry I've just seen you have posted the videos..

[skydog]

Just to add even yesterday someone gave me the advice of hugging a tree for grounding, I havent used it yet, but it may be helpful for you.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

9th posted a great one there... i like it.


Sadly, ialso hate it. i hate the truth, i hate the experience, i hate the suffering, so full of hate am i toward the shituation; desiring only 0 and receiving only plus or minus infinity [away] from my objective.

[RiverSnake]

The intellectual mind is only one small part of our existence....so yes, i would say there is a meaning outside of what are mind creates. Just look at the mind itself....it will give you a hundred different "purposes" for living and for dying in one day.

 

I endeavor to receive and live in harmony with Spirit.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited February 21, 2013 by OldGreen

[9th]

If people can be firm in decision and flexible in gradual application, neither hurrying nor lagging, neither aggressive nor weak, then hardness and softness balance each other; achieving balance and harmony, they will benefit wherever they go. If they study the Tao in this way, eventually they will surely understand the Tao; if they practice the Tao in this way, eventually they will surely realize the Tao.

 

If one is weak and not firm, and one's perception of principle is not yet true, one gets only the surface skin and does not yet get the deep gristle. If one is in a hurry to practice principles that are not truly understood, this will not only fail to help one's inner state, it will also harm one externally. This is like biting skin and cutting off the nose. The nose is that by which fragrance and odor are distinguished. When the mouth eats something, the nose smells it first: As the mouth does not know the flavor, though the nose can discern it, it is still of no use. It is fortunate if when one is weak, one is still balanced, and does not presume to practice as long as perception of principle is not yet true. Then one may be without blame. This is investigating principle without yet penetrating it.

 

Strong without balance, progress going too high, is like geese proceeding on a plateau. A plateau is a mountain with a flat top: Proceeding on a plateau means losing the order of climbing from low to high. In a hurry to succeed, yin and yang are not in harmony; getting involved in artificiality, one damages the real. This is like the husband going on an expedition and not returning, falling in love with another woman, while the wife gets pregnant but does not raise the child, having a secret affair with a lover. This can lead only to misfortune. The misfortune comes about because in the use of strength it is important to stop in the proper place and defend against brigands, not to act arbitrarily and become a brigand oneself. This is gradual progress in which one is strong but loses control.

 

If you can reverse obedience from acquired conditioning back to the primordial, gradually progressing, without hurrying or lagging, stopping falsehood and preserving truthfulness, mastering yourself and returning to appropriate order, that which is scattered can be assembled, that which is disorderly can be ordered, so that you can return to your original being. First dispersed, ending up not dispersed, there is thus paradoxically a way of development in dispersal.

 

Dispersing defilement, that is a great directive. The dispersing king remains impeccable.

 

 

- Taoist I-Ching

[Astral Monk]

'Purpose' is for tools, for artifacts constructed by specific beings to fulfill specific ends. It is a utilitarian concept. Purpose refers to means that achieve ends outside of themselves.

 

Living beings do not have purpose. They are ends in themselves.

 

SInce human beings are free, we are free to make ourselves tools if we want. If being an instrument of an exterior end is your thing, then by all means become an existential chisel.

 

8)