Advantages and Disadvantages of staying in the Lower Dan Tien

[joeblast]

heh...4b, that's like saying the equation to launch a projectile will somehow change. the raw form will not. its application is what changes, each time some parameter makes it a new situation.

 

reminds me of the futility closet bit about how (copying) a painting can be a forgery, but a musical performance, never. (as in cover song or performing beethoven, for example.)

 

every time one performs lower dt breathing - it is a musical performance, not a painting. it is a living changing dynamic.

 

which is why I resonate more with 'creator' instead of 'observer' - that which sees, directs, and experience/change/karma happen and unfold like the written musical score performed - get a whole orchestra together...and are you guys the local high school band or the london symphony?

 

everything has duration and extent....the cautions on organs are prescient because the organs are delicate; the intestines, not even close to liver or spleen, for example.

 

so, advantages, disadvantages or "staying in the lower dt" - well, consider duration and extent, and what is the goal? train one kick 10,000 times and all but of course, being able to dynamically express one's body in a fighting situation requires much more than having trained but one kick, even if it was 10,000 times.

Edited March 26, 2014 by joeblast

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited May 15, 2014 by chris d

[Rara]

 

Bullshit. Same as people saying marathons are lethal. They are not, like with EVERYTHING stuff is detrimental when you approach it with the WRONG MIND SET. That is the key here and with everything.

 

What happens when I want to clean out my system and I am agitated and continue to do so? Simple Qigong practices #1 advice to relax yourself? If I continue in this agitated state I will draw in energy and form this energy in an agitated way and ultimately bring agitation in all parts of my body. Which I have personally done and thankfully rapidly understood.

 

Yes, something I have come to realised. Very difficult to train out...I am still in the process.

 

Thanks for posting...those in need take note!

[Mark Foote]

There is an inherent undercurrent of "going somewhere" with the practice. I am definitely not saying personal practice is pointless. I am saying that as the "practice" progresses, perhaps the "idea" of "going somewhere" is forgotten along the way.

 

This morning over on Brad Warner's "Hardcore Zen" site, I wrote this:

 

"If I learn to relax into the activity of stretch, and I learn to free the mind in the discernment of the senses (including the ones nobody knows the names of, proprioception, equalibrioception, and gravity), then I have a certain mastery which is really nothing more than being who I am.

 

Now I would say all the world’s great religious traditions have this in common, and each has its own “body-position challenge” or challenges that are employed in teaching and in starting and ending the day, usually."

 

...Gautama (later called the Buddha) taught a particular body-posture challenge, and he taught that the habitual activities of speech, body, and mind cease in the absorptions that come naturally in that particular body-posture challenge. What made him unique, was that he understood a relationship between ignorance, habitual activity, consciousness, and grasping after a sense of self."

 

The four truths, which is how he expressed that relationship, begin with the truth "suffering exists". My understanding would be that when the first "truth" applies, when suffering exists, then the remaining three truths also apply. Apart from a moment when suffering is experienced, the four truths don't apply. Sort of like when you're in space near a large mass, the rules of geometries other than Euclidean geometry may appy, otherwise not.

 

Is it still the case that "if I learn to relax into the activity of stretch, and I learn to free the mind in the discernment of the senses, then I have a certain mastery which is really nothing more than being who I am"? In a sermon entitled "The Great Six-Fold Sense Sphere", Gautama said this:

 

"(Anyone)…knowing and seeing eye as it really is, knowing and seeing material shapes… visual consciousness… impact on the eye as it really is, and knowing, seeing as it really is the experience, whether pleasant, painful, or neither painful nor pleasant, that arises conditioned by impact on the eye, is not attached to the eye nor to material shapes nor to visual consciousness nor to impact on the eye; and that experience, whether pleasant, painful, or neither painful nor pleasant, that arises conditioned by impact on the eye—neither to that is (such a one) attached. …(Such a one’s) physical anxieties decrease, and mental anxieties decrease, and bodily torments… and mental torments… and bodily fevers decrease, and mental fevers decrease. (Such a one) experiences happiness of body and happiness of mind. (repeated for ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind).

 

Whatever is the view of what really is, that for (such a one) is right view; whatever is aspiration for what really is, that for (such a one) is right aspiration; whatever is endeavour for what really is, that is for (such a one) right endeavour; whatever is mindfulness of what really is, that is for (such a one) right mindfulness; whatever is concentration on what really is, that is for (such a one) right concentration. And (such a one’s) past acts of body, acts of speech, and mode of livelihood have been well purified.

 

(Majjhima-Nikaya, Pali Text Society volume 3 pg 337-338, ©Pali Text Society)

 

 

That last paragraph is a reference to the fourth truth, the eight-fold path that leads to the cessation of suffering.

 

In my experience, the mind or the heart-mind that sinks to the lower tan-tien is not a matter of force, but the freedom of the sense of location in space to move as the relaxed movement of breath precipitates a state between waking and sleeping. Anyone can experience this, but usually it's while falling asleep (especially while falling back to sleep after waking up at 4am). The sense of location can shift around in the body as the proprioceptive/kinesthetic/tactile sense enters into the sense of location and balance. If the eyes are open, the relaxed movement of breath still incorporates the proprioceptive/kinesthetic/tactile sense and the sense of gravity into the sense of location, but with the eyes open the sense of location may end up moving in a narrow range in the lower abdomen, between the place where the external/internal/transverse muscle ligaments have equal-length attachments at the rectus (2 inches below the navel?) and a point approximately opposite that in the lower back.

 

That's been my experience, in the last couple of years.

 

Here's a better description of how the state between waking up and falling asleep takes place:

 

Waking Up and Falling Asleep

Edited March 26, 2014 by Mark Foote

[Ginseng]

Nice to meet everyone,

 

If anyone would be kind to answer, I need help about what is said in this topic, “sink” the Dan Tian.

I have had chi coming out of my hands and chest, long ago was scary but now I can deal with it and even use it.

While reading this topic, (google brought this page  to me during an unrelated search), it came to my attention that I had no chi activity happening around my navel, so I followed the advices of “sinking” , which I understood as to relax and focus there.

I made the exercise a couple of days and a tiny amount of chi gathered around the navel during the exercise, but I got puzzled.

The reason is because the chi in the Dan Tian is entering my body instead of been expelled like in the hands and chest.

The other reason is because the chi is entering in spirals instead of waves, as has always happened in the hands and chest.

Is this right? I mean about the chi entering the body instead of going out, and moving in spirals instead of waves?

Thank you so much for reading, and I would really be grateful about any insight on this, at least if this is a good thing to happen. 

 

 

[beingnature]

I have the experience that when you let go of the feeling of being above your head it naturally settles in the ldt.

[Michael Sternbach]

Hi Ginseng,

 

I suppose that your LDT simply spontaneously started filling itself with chi. That's awesome. Try not to resist or tense up, just allow yourself to flow with the experience.

 

As to the energy spirals you are sensing, well, a chakra is often considered to be some kind of vortex. There are many ways that chi can move and can be felt, and different people have different perceptions which may also change over time. It's all good, there is no right and wrong. And there is no need that your experience would conform to what system X or master Y says.

 

It's natural that we seek confirmation and guidance when we are making new experiences. But your own living experience is more important than what somebody else may have said once. As long as you don't experience any real discomfort, things are going the right way.

[Ginseng]

Hi Star-Lord,

 

Thank you so much. I feel safer now to continue the exercise. I guess I need confirmation, I am not quite the bold type of person, rather more careful than maybe I should. Thank you for taking the time to reply, I could not decide whether I would continue the experience but I am excited to do it now, see what the little spiral will make me feel ( it is too tiny right now to cause a reaction that I can perceive, but perhaps it might grow).

 

I wish a nice weekend to you and everyone.

[RiverSnake]

Spirals are quite lovely.

[RiverSnake]

[Spotless]

I am familiar with methods that ask one to stay centered in the Lower Dan Tien.

 

The theory behind this is that one powers up the whole body by accessing the specific energy of the Lower Dan Tien. It is also considered to be the physical energy center and to be one that grounds people.

 

However the theory is that it will open other "chakras" naturally. Such as the crown/third eye, connecting one to "home"

 

I currently have the opinion that keeping awareness on the lower dan tien is by no means natural and by no means wuwei, sure some people can dress it up as somehow being natural but for me it feels very forced and makes me tense and start thinking a lot.

 

If I let go of being aware of the lower dan tien, all the energy goes to my crown/above my head/third eye and I get very high easily. Instant enlightenment, If I start thinking of my lower dan tien, I become agitated and feel forced and start overthinking, this is annoying to me, as apparantely this means something is wrong with me when I am already there in a way.

 

However often I get too high and need to be grounded so things like being aware of the lower dan tien would help. Also sometimes my physical/sexual energy is out of whack.

 

No matter how much people try to convince me trying to be in the lower dan tien however phrased just seems like trying and effort taking me out of wuwei.

 

I see some advantages and some disadvantages.

 

I am interested in hearing some views/advice on this that are unbiased and undogmatic.

 

Thanks.

-------------–

 

Being in the lower dan tian is not to "get us out of our heads", it is to find the roots of our tree.

 

It is not to heal one in need of grounding, though that may be in part what it does.

 

In Qi Gong the foundation of the practice is building up the steamer - the lower dan tian and from there filling and refining and expanding. It is absolutely astonishing what will follow with diligent practice. And like your lungs, which we think have little to do with our brains - take a minute without them and you will have only about 30 seconds left to reminisce on life with them.

 

In the unfoldment of your crown chakra and the opening of the upper dan tian to the height of some twelve feet and more - you will find the base root of each breath in the lower dan tian.

 

If you Awaken and begin the Awakened/Awakening life you will find that embodiment comes strikingly fast and all shred of prior personality invested in what your false personality had vested in its ideas of Awakening and the Enlighteneing processes gone - completely disintegrated - not one inkling of prior scent was correct - the mind was so far from nearness - so completely the problem.

 

Becoming "high" is nothing - high in the head is the norm and those who have difficulty - real difficulty even trying to remove themselves from the high are often at the mercy of beings that would like to keep the party and higher out-of-control vibrations going.

 

You may be a natural as a Medium and / or it may be that the practices involving the LDT are not something for you to pursue, but if and when you happen upon Awakenening - you will be utterly grounded - and so - that is why in the teachings of so many that have Awakened - the teaching of the practices of embodiment are included.

 

Some teachers teach the top down approach - in general it has not proved to be very effective - the sly man approach as one who co-opted many teachings called it. Also Direct transmission teaching can do wonders but they also have their drawbacks, and even in these teachings the student is expected / require to work on ones fires and imbalances and prepare for acceptance of the transmission.

 

Obviously it is for each one of us to find our way - but the problem is more complicated - we tend to discard what we don't like - often because it is what we resist and also often because we have joined in camaraderie with others who resist as we do.

 

I once really disliked a particular Qi Gong movement - it was simple but I was always completely out of breath from it and sweating and uncomfortable. I asked the master what this movement was for using a translator - on his phone in the translation was the word "sciatica".

I was currently at the time suffering from sciatica - I no longer suffer from it as I did then and that Qi Gong movement is no longer a problem at all.

 

We dodge many helpful "movements" if left to the mind and mind loops and a body that may resist what the mind is ready to forgo.

And if what we resists joins with like minded friends and podcasts - our mind loops grow and insulate us from all sorts of things.

 

Most people are dead by 50 - possessed by their proclivities and positions and mind loops.

 

The great paths all teach balance and ways to temper oneself - ways to approach what we resist, move beyond fear and embrace change. I lived my early adult life in mind - a fine mind - but spiritual studies led me to one conclusion - the only way to truely test what ALL the masters were pointing to - was to do due diligence to meditation and diet and a yoga of life - several years of it. If it did not bare fruit than so be it. What made the test palatable was the clarity that rang through everything that I had read and based my journey upon - it was a journey not based on what I liked and did not like - though some things attracted me and others did not - as an example - I have never cared for chanting and any trance practices - yet for many this is a great practice - for me something in it was not right - perhaps because for me it was extremely easy to find those highs and I would be easily lost in them.

 

After several years of living the life I decided it did not bare fruit of the high sorts I was lead to believe and so I decided to quit - it was that week that everything changed and a great many abilities unfolded.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Spotless

[Golden Dragon Shining]

What is the recommended diet?

[Spotless]

What is the recommended diet?

 

Less noise

[blue eyed snake]

Less noise

 

[Golden Dragon Shining]

yes, virtue in simplicity 

[blue eyed snake]

what an interesting post

 

-------------–

Being in the lower dan tian is not to "get us out of our heads", it is to find the roots of our tree.

It is not to heal one in need of grounding, though that may be in part what it does.

 

it does 

 

In Qi Gong the foundation of the practice is building up the steamer - the lower dan tian and from there filling and refining and expanding. It is absolutely astonishing what will follow with diligent practice. And like your lungs, which we think have little to do with our brains - take a minute without them and you will have only about 30 seconds left to reminisce on life with them.

In the unfoldment of your crown chakra and the opening of the upper dan tian to the height of some twelve feet and more - you will find the base root of each breath in the lower dan tian.

If you Awaken and begin the Awakened/Awakening life you will find that embodiment comes strikingly fast and all shred of prior personality invested in what your false personality had vested in its ideas of Awakening and the Enlighteneing processes gone - completely disintegrated - not one inkling of prior scent was correct - the mind was so far from nearness - so completely the problem.

Becoming "high" is nothing - high in the head is the norm and those who have difficulty - real difficulty even trying to remove themselves from the high are often at the mercy of beings that would like to keep the party and higher out-of-control vibrations going.

You may be a natural as a Medium and / or it may be that the practices involving the LDT are not something for you to pursue, but if and when you happen upon Awakenening - you will be utterly grounded - and so - that is why in the teachings of so many that have Awakened - the teaching of the practices of embodiment are included.

-

Some teachers teach the top down approach - in general it has not proved to be very effective - the sly man approach as one who co-opted many teachings called it. Also Direct transmission teaching can do wonders but they also have their drawbacks, and even in these teachings the student is expected / require to work on ones fires and imbalances and prepare for acceptance of the transmission.

 

would you indulge me and tell more about this? I do not plan to follow such an approach, i follow teachers my instructions with building up the steamer as basics, no idea what comes next, ill just go on. But I'm interested in all that is about the top-down flow.

 

Obviously it is for each one of us to find our way - but the problem is more complicated - we tend to discard what we don't like - often because it is what we resist and also often because we have joined in camaraderie with others who resist as we do.

I once really disliked a particular Qi Gong movement - it was simple but I was always completely out of breath from it and sweating and uncomfortable. I asked the master what this movement was for using a translator - on his phone in the translation was the word "sciatica".
I was currently at the time suffering from sciatica - I no longer suffer from it as I did then and that Qi Gong movement is no longer a problem at all.

We dodge many helpful "movements" if left to the mind and mind loops and a body that may resist what the mind is ready to forgo.
And if what we resists joins with like minded friends and podcasts - our mind loops grow and insulate us from all sorts of things.

 

so true, i've endlessly done an awful movement that i really disliked. but...it should help me get loose a severely frozen shoulder, well, it did   still some work there to be done but I can move that arm again.

 

Most people are dead by 50 - possessed by their proclivities and positions and mind loops.

The great paths all teach balance and ways to temper oneself - ways to approach what we resist, move beyond fear and embrace change. I lived my early adult life in mind - a fine mind - but spiritual studies led me to one conclusion - the only way to truely test what ALL the masters were pointing to - was to do due diligence to meditation and diet and a yoga of life - several years of it. If it did not bare fruit than so be it. What made the test palatable was the clarity that rang through everything that I had read and based my journey upon - it was a journey not based on what I liked and did not like - though some things attracted me and others did not - as an example - I have never cared for chanting and any trance practices - yet for many this is a great practice - for me something in it was not right - perhaps because for me it was extremely easy to find those highs and I would be easily lost in them.

 

Thank you for explaining your (well-known) aversion against trance(like states). I fall easily in a trance and it has born fruit to me. It gave me sort of direct insight in eh...how will i call it. i think it gives me visions that explain some emotional/energetic/ karmic knots. it's helpful and i feel it has made me go quickly on cleaning old stuff up. Still a long way to go but this feels already so much better.

It's just, you need tot to become entangled in these visions, stay 'neutral/observant' to it ( afterwards I mean)

 

After several years of living the life I decided it did not bare fruit of the high sorts I was lead to believe and so I decided to quit - it was that week that everything changed and a great many abilities unfolded.

 

thanks for sharing,

 

BES

[Spotless]

By "top down" I was referring to some teachings being primarily concept and head related vs practice. In other words - very intellectual in the Western sense of the word (not the Indian Yoga sense of the word).

 

In this general vein, teachings in general - when they go nuts on details that are very specific on things like "the seven rays" or the origin of mankind before Atlantis and things like this - do nothing for the student. They reinforce the idea that the student now knows something "esoteric" but it is complete babble to the students comprehension - this is also the case with the many bibles in circulation - they scramble ones head with amazingly strange thoughts and readers come up with bizarre conclusions based on holy ground thinking and not foundational self knowledge and established inner truth/knowing/unfoldment.

 

Regarding my reference to trance states and chanting as such - it is easy for nearly anyone to get results with trance - and so it is highly addictive and falls miles short of states reached not in trance. Yet for some that practice can be helpful because of low energy and or low vibration and also high resistance to "letting go". Also, some people are so floaty that under good guidance this approach has some merit - teachings that are very heavy into this form often need a close culture to support each other as these teachings are a bit like being half drunk on a regular basis.

 

In general trance is a big detour, addictive and a part of the rabbits way.

 

I do not have an aversion to it - it is a tool and a very useful tool - and it is also a drug - a very potent addictive drug. Unlike most very potent addictive drugs - few understand this - partly because they are already so under its influence. Trance is sprinkled throughout our daily life - most are largely asleep in it - our positions and mind loops are trance for the most part.

 

Awakening is basically awakening from trance.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Spotless

[blue eyed snake]

By "top down" I was referring to some teachings being primarily concept and head related vs practice. In other words - very intellectual in the Western sense of the word (not the Indian Yoga sense of the word).

 

In this general vein, teachings in general - when they go nuts on details that are very specific on things like "the seven rays" or the origin of mankind before Atlantis and things like this - do nothing for the student. They reinforce the idea that the student now knows something "esoteric" but it is complete babble to the students comprehension - this is also the case with the many bibles in circulation - they scramble ones head with amazingly strange thoughts and readers come up with bizarre conclusions based on holy ground thinking and not foundational self knowledge and established inner truth/knowing/unfoldment.

 

I get it, I was more looking for energetic approaches starting from the crown and the getting down instead of the usual way of starting with the lower dantien

 

Regarding my reference to trance states and chanting as such - it is easy for nearly anyone to get results with trance - and so it is highly addictive and falls miles short of states reached not in trance.

 

I wonder whether we're talking the same thing. I cannot very well imagine my trances to become addictive. The first times it frightened me out, Now I accept it as something that needs to be done. What happens is that i sort of relive repressed fear, anger and to a lesser degree sadness. The emotions I feel are real (and very scary, there's a good reason i blocked these out), the visuals that accompany the emotions are sometimes ( rarely though) flashes of real memories ( think here for example  a visual of a place where i was raped) but mostly they are strange and bewildering episodes that somehow convey the emotion at hand very well.

 

Obviously, since I have been ill for a long time it's sometime ago and I will not endeavor that path again until I'm healthy and strong again. but, it has ridden me of blockages that have been sitting there for most of my life. Blocks that no therapy before has ever been able to really help me with. So i'm grateful and regard it as not only important, but in this stage as a sort of corebusiness.

 

In so many ways i recognize the voice of my teacher in your posts, yet on this particular thing you seem to be far apart, therefore I thought I ask you about it more.

 

Yet for some that practice can be helpful because of low energy and or low vibration and also high resistance to "letting go".

 

well, i probably have a high resistance to letting go. also low energy and vibration. But I'm one of the  few who gets this effect so strong and looking around to my fellow student I'm definitely not the only one with these issues.

 

I'm doing something that's dubbed something like : qigong to become healthy and vigorous. Workshops are together with people from his class of , well, lets call them senior students... One of his senior students has the same visions happening as I have, he was the one that told me not to get attached to it. but i know from him that he still has aversion to this visions. 

 

so, i wonder whether you would call this trance in the meaning you are using the word.

 

Also, some people are so floaty that under good guidance this approach has some merit

 

sorry, i don't get what you mean here.

 

- teachings that are very heavy into this form often need a close culture to support each other as these teachings are a bit like being half drunk on a regular basis.

 

In general trance is a big detour, addictive and a part of the rabbits way.

 

I once, long ago, have been to a sort of ' spiritual' groupthing, once...

I felt like: you're just getting high on your chanting and incense and you're emotion of " look how nice and  spiritual we are" I take it that's an example of what you mean?

 

I do not have an aversion to it - it is a tool and a very useful tool - and it is also a drug - a very potent addictive drug. Unlike most very potent addictive drugs - few understand this - partly because they are already so under its influence.

 

well, i can readily imagine that when nicer visions should come, that it could be addictive and not the way to go, then you would drown yourself in yet another illusion.

 

Trance is sprinkled throughout our daily life - most are largely asleep in it - our positions and mind loops are trance for the most part.

 

slowly I begin to get what you mean by that

 

Awakening is basically awakening from trance.

 

thank you,

BES

Edited April 21, 2016 by blue eyed snake

[Spotless]

Regarding:

 

"Some people are so floaty that under good guidance this approach has some merit"

 

In other words - some people are so in trance all the time that a teaching working with trance can be very helpful to them.

 

From this point I mentioned groups and a culture of support.

 

In the point I was making above regarding the culture of support is that in very trance based teachings their is often a pretty good following and they tend to be somewhat tighter and far more in each other's space - it tends to be more of a group collective.

(groups can be and often are great - large teachings can have Hugh benefits - I mention this because so many people have an aversion to groups)

Also some religious sects are nearly completely trance based and it is obvious if you have the eyes to see it - go to an old time Christian service with a shouting pastor and a congregation shouting back and you will be as high as a kite when you walk out of that. If you ever want to feel/see every type of spirit and entity assembled in one spot - this is the type of place to go - it is a full fledged trance show about one fraction of an inch away from heads spinning 360 degrees.

 

None of this is inherently bad nor is it in poor taste or a bad decision - it is what it is.

 

People come from all walks of life and with all sorts of assets and with all sorts of mind-sets and baggage. Trance tends to take one out of oneself and this can be a helpful thing and a not so helpful thing.

 

The habit of taking one out of oneself is typically the point of concern.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Spotless

[ralis]

Regarding:

 

"Some people are so floaty that under good guidance this approach has some merit"

 

In other words - some people are so in trance all the time that a teaching working with trance can be very helpful to them.

 

From this point I mentioned groups and a culture of support.

 

In the point I was making above regarding the culture of support is that in very trance based teachings their is often a pretty good following and they tend to be somewhat tighter and far more in each other's space - it tends to be more of a group collective.

(groups can be and often are great - large teachings can have Hugh benefits - I mention this because so many people have an aversion to groups)

Also some religious sects are nearly completely trance based and it is obvious if you have the eyes to see it - go to an old time Christian service with a shouting pastor and a congregation shouting back and you will be as high as a kite when you walk out of that. If you ever want to feel/see every type of spirit and entity assembled in one spot - this is the type of place to go - it is a full fledged trance show about one fraction of an inch away from heads spinning 360 degrees.

 

None of this is inherently bad nor is it in poor taste or a bad decision - it is what it is.

 

People come from all walks of life and with all sorts of assets and with all sorts of mind-sets and baggage. Trance tends to take one out of oneself and this can be a helpful thing and a not so helpful thing.

 

The habit of taking one out of oneself is typically the point of concern.

 

 

Here in Santa Fe the Advaita trance has been hugely popular. From Gangaji to Moojiji and myriad others coming through here being all the rage. Never been to one of their Satsangs, but just hearing any of them speak, I can feel the trance coming on which for me, does nothing.

[idquest]

So what would be the difference between trance and deep meditation that does not engage the mind? Because when we engage the mind, this is 'to do' meditation that is good in the beginning but is not a desirable state. We aim at a state in the meditation where we don't engage the mind, pre-heaven. How do we know this is indeed the pre-heaven state rather than trance?

[Spotless]

So what would be the difference between trance and deep meditation that does not engage the mind? Because when we engage the mind, this is 'to do' meditation that is good in the beginning but is not a desirable state. We aim at a state in the meditation where we don't engage the mind, pre-heaven. How do we know this is indeed the pre-heaven state rather than trance?

I am not familiar with the term pre-heaven and mind is a term that is all over the place though I get your

gist above.

 

That said here are some basics from my practice:

 

Breath - nothing special - no big techniques - but stay awake and alive and in your body (at least the center of your head) until you have moved into a good communion with sitting as spirit in your body and really being with it - not leaving it.

 

At this point my breathing naturally centers from my lower dan Tien and my awareness is still often in the center of my head but it is more of a very wide swath throughout "my" space - but this was not always the case - early on I spent many many hours in meditation in the center of my head.

It became my practice to breath regularly (still into my abdomen but more robustly) if I was becoming unconscious and or floating. However in the earlier times I muddled through as best I could - but from the start meditation was regular and lengthy.

 

In the beginning despite all the colorful technology talked about and states talked about - what you are doing is spending time with your body - a precious jewel that is beyond words and I am not being gooey here - particularly here in the West it is nearly impossible to get people to value this absolutely incredible vehicle that we have attained - some of our religious sects look down upon it and consider it un-godlike and base - they are base and twisted.

 

In the beginning your body is given the opportunity to clean cycle energy while you reside with it and attempt not to clutter the vibration with the normally ever looping head stuff. You try to reside in your head without allowing the constant noise babbling from your analyzer.

 

This progresses - if done regularly and at a regular time - your body and other energies begin to setup in advance for the meditation.

The body begins to clear out natural pathways and so certain blockages create wads of unconsciousness that hit your awareness like a brick of sleep - it is much better to breath through this than to assume you are reaching the highly treasured "no breath state".

The "no breath state" is not one of unconsciousness but rather one of stillness.

 

You can breath through your different nostrils and sit in different positions and hold different finger positions and all of those incredible esoteric things that everyone plays around with and they are all well and good - but time with the body in the body is really what this is all about - if you wish to make solid ground.

 

As this progresses - you will begin to meditate regularly for 40 minutes or more - and some of you will go for hours. You begin to understand the unconsciousness when it hits and a few deep breaths or several shallow quick breaths and you can stay revived though the 2-5 minutes of very thick sluggish tired energy blowing through at a snails pace.

 

Around 45-50 minutes into it after you have become fairly well acclimated to meditation you begin to build confidence as a level of clarity sets in and all issues with your legs and breath and temperature fall away.

 

The energy becomes finer and finer and the nadis lighten and energy begins to permeate and the natural pathways grow and the chakras blossom. The head will fill with light, the tunnel will begin its strobe of moving sides, yet you are right there with your body breathing - sometimes not breathing - but the residence is clarity of awareness - and a trust is developing with your body - you have not left it when pain pictures and other compressions de-compressed and peeled away - you stayed with it through the unconscious energy and did not leave it to fall asleep with uncleared road tar in its system - you hung in there and cleared it with the body - you bit the bullet that the body bites all day long with what you put it through - bravo to you!!!

 

This is the best of meditation - it is what the two of you are steaming up - the body is going through total transformation because of your relationship with it and willingness to be with it - in a sense you are listening to it and unity - being with it while together you enjoy - endure vast vibrational transformation.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Spotless

[Phoenixrising]

Spotless >> Becoming "high" is nothing - high in the head is the norm and those who have difficulty - real difficulty even trying to remove themselves from the high are often at the mercy of beings that would like to keep the party and higher out-of-control vibrations going....

 

Wow. Really hit the spot there, Spotless. And in a good way. I was there, high in that place. And the 'party' was starting to spiral..... Somebody came by, sensed the imbalance in my practice, then gave me a verbal smack. And set me on LDT work + Taiji. Not supposed to focus on higher chakras only. Thank God for the good people who cross my path. I stay grounded now. Tqvm.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Phoenixrising

[blue eyed snake]

....

 

 - but time with the body in the body is really what this is all about -

........

- and a trust is developing with your body - you have not left it when pain pictures and other compressions de-compressed and peeled away -

 

you stayed with it through the unconscious energy and did not leave it to fall asleep with uncleared road tar in its system - you hung in there and cleared it with the body - you bit the bullet that the body bites all day long with what you put it through - bravo to you!!!This is the best of meditation - it is what the two of you are steaming up - the body is going through total transformation because of your relationship with it and willingness to be with it - in a sense you are listening to it and unity - being with it while together you enjoy - endure vast vibrational transformation.

 

thanks, i think i get it better now

[z00se]

Advantages and disadvantages....

 

For me, advantages of LDT is playing with power or energy that can cause physical changes in the body and control of those physical changes through this power. Sudden physical changes, fast and strong.

 

Disadvantage.... lack of insight. Perhaps having the power of a rocketship to boost into the sky, yet lacking the insight of knowing there were pockets of hot air rising that i could sit in and boost into the sky without ever needing to use much power at all. (Upper dantien)

 

Lack of feeling or satisfaction beyond having achieved a goal. Power to get things done, but feeling only satisfaction within of having accomplished that goal. Not having the emotional connection with others that can increase the intensity and quality and sensation of achievement that comes with connections with others and relationships. (Middle dantien)

 

To give examples, a warrior can win the battle (LDT power), but perhaps loses friends or family because of a lack of honour during the battle, perhaps 'cheating' or not having mercy (Middle dantien), and not having the insight to realise there may not have needed to be a battle in the first place (upper dantien.

 

Everybody has their own personality and way of doing things, through meditation we can either boost our strengths and become even more powerful (as we percieve) and more unbalanced, or slowly build on our weaknesses to become more balanced and rounded people, without the special powers, but in balance not needing them because we already have everything we need - what we thought we needed wasn't what we needed/wanted.

 

But it's not all about advantages and disadvantages, it's about having fun. That is what it all boils down to for me. Furfill my desires, live my dreams, tick off my life bucket lists so to speak. Balance is whats best, but balance becomes boring. Balance through constant change is the best for me. Living with the seasons seems to help, using the outer to lead the inner.

 

If there is one thing that i wished i had have realised earlier in over a decade of practice is use what you learn within without, and vice versa.

 

Meditation / NeiGong is very inner, outer growth is just as important as inner growth. Dantiens and techniques and styles, this way and that way. All the answers are there, but I don't know if I don't ask myself or look. There is a time to watch, a time to lead, and a time to feel, and other times too.

 

Whats right for one person isn't always right for another, advise from another is often engineering advice to follow the same path as another person. This is often wrong for the individual, we all have our own path. Understand nature, understand tao, then use that understanding to walk the path one seeks. This is why the old books often talk in poems. There is no clear cut answer because nobody else knows where you are (especially over the internet) or where you're going. Poems just help describe the environment, the terrain so one can choose for themselves.