Taoists and relationships

[Taoistik stylez]

I got a question for all my fellow Tao lovers. Lao tzu spoke frequently of detachment and not wanting or desiring. Based on that, do you think it's wise for a Taoist or anyone for that matter to fal

In love or get married? It seems to me that relationships of intamacy always end in heartbreak one way or the other.

[JohnC]

Take with a grain of salt, interpretations of a language that has many different meanings, from people based in a completely different culture, that we no longer have any access to.

 

The 'desire' may mean more clinging, or obsession or attachments.

 

Then decide for yourself.

There is a lot of shame, guilt and judgement around sexuality in our culture... when sex and relationships just are.

 

Personally, I think there is nothing more in line with the tao than love.

Relationships though are like... challenge mode for serious practitioners. It's easy to go to a cave and meditate. Interacting with your psychology and the psychology of others in an artful way is challenging.

 

John

Edited February 16, 2013 by JohnC

[RiverSnake]

I have always found this video quite insightful in regards to relationships.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27102-taoists-and-relationships/

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[dawei]

Oh no, don't fall in love! STAND in love.

 

Just LOVE

[madMUHHH]

Take with a grain of salt, interpretations of a language that has many different meanings, from people based in a completely different culture, that we no longer have any access to.

 

The 'desire' may mean more clinging, or obsession or attachments.

 

Then decide for yourself.

 

There is a lot of shame, guilt and judgement around sexuality in our culture... when sex and relationships just are.

 

Personally, I think there is nothing more in line with the tao than love.

Relationships though are like... challenge mode for serious practitioners. It's easy to go to a cave and meditate. Interacting with your psychology and the psychology of others in an artful way is challenging.

 

John

 

I want to second every bit of that. Except for that "John" part. I find that to be kinda questionable.

 

Also, I think "challenge mode" is a very apt expression here. The way I see it, relationships have a tendency to expose you to your own bullshit in a way and intensity you wouldn't get outside a relationship. Which may be hard at times, but at the same time bears a lot of potential for personal growth. I really find it astonishing how women especially seem to possess some kind of hyper sensitive bullshit-detection-system and I think that when you open up to it, a lot of the "odd" behaviour of a partner is just or also a means of confronting you with parts of you, you might not so readily deal with when cultivating alone.

 

This all comes from my admittedly very limited experience with relationships and this is only my opinion, nothing more. But as this thread just so happened to pop up at the exact time, that I feel like I personally resolved some relationship-related issues, I thought I'd add some input here.

[RiverSnake]

I have always found this video quite insightful in regards to relationships.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27102-taoists-and-relationships/

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Wrong link :

[safi]

I got a question for all my fellow Tao lovers. Lao tzu spoke frequently of detachment and not wanting or desiring. Based on that, do you think it's wise for a Taoist or anyone for that matter to fal

In love or get married? It seems to me that relationships of intamacy always end in heartbreak one way or the other.

 

Yes, if you were to read all these ancient religious texts carefully you would come to the conclusion that what they're really advocating is dispassion.

Edited February 23, 2013 by safi

[Taoistik stylez]

Wow, thank you guys for your input! Maybe I'm just scared and I sometimes use Tao as an excuse not to get involved. But yes personal growth def comes out of relationships.

[JohnC]

Wow, thank you guys for your input! Maybe I'm just scared and I sometimes use Tao as an excuse not to get involved. But yes personal growth def comes out of relationships.

 

That sounds like an awesome inquiry to me.

 

John

[LCH]

I have never been one to be in a relationship for very long, even long before I consciously pursued "Taoism". Someone mentioned that relationships are difficult because other people often represent and express aspects of ourselves that we rather not face. I can attest to this, and have realized until I can fully love myself, I cannot fully love "another".

 

I will also say that I am the product of a marriage that has been void of genuine love for as long as I can remember. This realization has been a tough one to deal with since I cannot make my parents love one another no mater how hard the innocent 6 year old in me fights to make it happen through layers of hurt and frustration.

 

I do also recognize that I pull my self-worth, or lack thereof, by default from my progenitors. This, to me is part of the "conditioning" that I have striven to understand. I have wrestled with the idea of breaking this energetic bond with my parents at the risk of severing other emotional ties. Obviously, it does not have to be "all or nothing", but no one ever said personal work was easy.

 

More generally...

 

I have observed that much of the society's idea of "relationships" is driven by an inherent "lack" in both people, this will manifest in the idea of finding someone with qualities you do not have. At the basic level, one could even say anatomically. :-) Thus, a co-dependency will begin. I do not say this as a "bad" thing, but for someone who is pursuing the "yin/yang" balance internally, it can be difficult to be with someone who inherently feels they are not "whole" unless they can find it in "another". If society promoted the mantra "know thyself" from an early age, I would wager that the collective views of the whole would be rather different than the externally driven views promoted today.

 

I will admit my "Taoist" and "spiritual" pursuits were driven by the emotional hurt I have experienced in my life. I, like humanity as a whole, have guilt and inferiority complexes that I have recognized in myself and have determined to nurture back to "center". I do not perceive these as "faults", more so energetic imbalances worthy of attention.

 

Concepts of monogamy and life-long vows are viable, but knowing how much I have altered my own perception, I cannot expect another to commit themselves to me in that way. I do not desire to "own" the love of anyone else, but merely to cultivate a love with another based on the ever-present understanding that the engagement is 100% voluntary and there is never anything keeping someone in the relationship. The gift of a completely 100% voluntary relationship, or as clostto it as possible, is a tremendous form of graciousness and gratitude.

 

Having said all that :-)....

 

To me, the idea of a "successful" relationship is completely relative and does not necessarily mean it will result in children, years of shared "love", joint tax returns, or anything else in our modern world that symbolizes that an encounter with someone actually "means something".

 

In fact, to the contrary, I often seek the innocent excitement that I felt the first time I began to feel genuine amorous "love" for another. A time were my mind had yet to have been "corrupted" by adulthood. An "adulthood" where innocence is looked upon as foolishness and weakness by society.

 

What I feel is changing societally now is the idea of what a relationship really represents. Much like everything else, it is never black or white.

 

Thank you for posing the question, Taoistik.

 

I apologize if my form of expression is a bit choppy, it can be difficult to convert the interwoven complexity of these energies into coherent and linearly perceived prose.

 

Lad

[Phi92]

Regardless what Lao Zi said or what he meant, a Daoist doens't have to agree with everything written in the ancient scripts. Otherwise, it would be a dogmatic religion and there would be less personal value and progress.

 

So - no, I don't think love is a bad thing and falling in love. In fact, I think it's the most important thing in life, actually.

 

Everything is better when you love someone and one should develop love for as much things as possible, for your girlfriend/wife or boyfried/husband, for family and friends, for forests and seas, for animals and those small things