kuji kiri

[Sifu ReL]

This topic is in no way asking for links to articles or videos our anything like that, what I wanna know is if any of you use this and for what, like all your experience with kuji kiri

[konchog uma]

i have used it for cleansing, blessing, empowering, protecting, that sort of thing. Like most arts of its nature, there is no concrete way to quantify the results or to describe what my experiences have been. Some would challenge me to prove that they were anything more than placebo, but I would say that based on what i know about magic and energy, that the system has the potential to produce results when practiced correctly.

[Aetherous]

I use kuji kiri as well as kuji-in to help make things right. I never really planned to have this as a practice...it just feels very natural to do at times. If I were to be asked, "what do you practice?" I usually wouldn't answer "kuji"...but the truth is that I tend to do it a lot at random times.

The first hand seal, for Rin, is especially useful for being more confident and natural in social situations...when otherwise you sort of feel your personal strength isn't there, and you're over-sensitive and susceptible. I do it with the middle fingers extended, and the other fingers folded over the outside of the hand. Or sometimes including the indexes extended, but I feel like the indexes folded over has a better effect usually. Increases personal energy.

 

For centering myself and calming down, I like to do the extra hand seal. Two sword fingers, the right hand thumb over the pinky and ring....left hand thumb touching pinky and ring tips. The right sword is inside of the left pinky/ring/thumb circle. Very effective. Perhaps it helps to clear things away.

 

The 9th seal, zen, when done in the Dragon Gate Sanctuary way, tends to be like a way of feeling the entire aura at once. It is somewhat calming.

When cutting as in kuji kiri, I think it helps to develop a decisive demeanor. It benefits the practice if you get really into it...like a warrior. I imagine that I'm cutting away all problems in life, and bringing order to the chaos with force.

I like to say the syllables, either whispered or loud, even though I'm not sure they actually mean anything now. The original language was apparently Taoist, and was pronounced quite differently, in Chinese. It meant something in Chinese. These days, I think it simply helps to connect the energy of each hand seal to each cut...so for that, it's useful. I feel like the energy of each hand seal is enough to discover the meaning on a personal level.

Dragon Gate Sanctuary has a version that is quite unique, which I think was from a ninjitsu lineage. It is very interesting and has additional effects (related to the energy field and chakras) from simply doing the seals in the normal way. But I tend to prefer doing them just in front of me. I think going through them somewhat quickly, over and over, tends to develop kundalini.

 

Edit: Also, this isn't exactly hermetic or occult. I'd keep it in the general section.

Edited February 17, 2013 by turtle shell

[Zhongyongdaoist]

There have been interesting discussions of this topic elsewhere on The Tao Bums, but to rescue this thread and keep it in line with Western traditions, a little cross cultural comparison may be in order. The following is from Chapter XVI of Agrippa's Second Book of Occult Philosophy:

 

Chapter xvi. Of the notes of numbers, placed in certain gesturings.

 

I have often read in the books of Magicians, and their works, and experiments certain, wonderful, & as they seemed to me ridiculous gesturings, and I did think they were certain occult agreements of the divels, by reason of which I did reject them: but after I did more seriously examine the matter, then I did presently understand that they were not the compacts of divels [devils]; but that there lay in them the reason of numbers, by which the ancients did by the various bending forward, and backward, their hands, and fingers represent numbers, by whose gesturings the Magiciand did silently signifie words unknown by sound, various with numbers, yet of great vertue, by their fingers joyned together, and sometimes changed, and did with sacred silence worship the Gods that rule over the world. The rites whereof Martianus also makes mention of in his Arithmetick, saying, The fingers of the Virgin were moved all manner of wayes, who after she went in, did by expressing seven hundred and seventeen numbers with her bended fingers call upon Jupiter. But, that these things may be the better understood, I shall bring something out of the sayings of Beda who saith, When thou sayest one, bend in the litle [little] finger on thy left hand, and set it in the middle of the Palme; when thou sayest two, place the next finger to the litle finger in the same place; when three, the middle finger after the same manner; when four, thou shalt lift up thy little finger; when five, the next to it after the same manner; when six, the middle, that finger alone which is called the ring finger, being fixt on the middle of the Palme: when thou sayest seve, thou shaly put only thy little finger above the root of thy Palm, tthe rest in the mean time being lifted up; and by it when thou sayest eight, thy ring finger; when thou sayest nine, thou shalt set thy middle finger contrary to them; when thou sayest ten, thou shall set the naile of thy fore-finger, or the middle joynt [joint] of thy thumb. When thou sayest twenty, thou shalt put the top of thy middle finger close betwixt the joynts of thy thumb, and forefinger. When thou sayest thirty, thou shalt joyn the naile of thy thumb, and fore-finger lightly together. When thou sayest fourty [forty], thou shalt bring the inside of thy thumb to the outside of thy fore-finger, both being lifted up. When thou sayest fifty, thou shalt bend thy thumb with the outward joynt like to the Greek Gamma to the Palme. When thou sayest sixty, compass about thy thumb being bended as before, with thy fore-finger bowed over it. When thou sayest seventy, thou shalt supply thy fore-finger being bowed about as before, with thy thumb stretched at length, the naile thereof being lifted up before the middle joynt of thy fore-finger. When thou sayest eighty, thou shalt supply thy fore-finger bowed about as before, with thy thumb stretched forth at length, the naile thereof being set upon the middle joynt of the fore-finger. When thou sayest ninty, thou shall set the naile of thy fore-finger bent into the root of thy thumb stretched out. Thus much for the left hand. Now thou shalt make 100^. on thy right hand, as thou sisdt ten of thy left; and 200^. on thy right, as thou didst twenty on thy left; 2000^. on thy right, as thou didst two on thy left, and so to 9000. Moreover when thou sayest 10000^. thou shalt put thy left hand upward on thy brest, thy fingers only being lifted towards Heaven. When thou sayest 20000^. thou shalt put the same spread forth upon thy breast. When thou sayest 30000^. thou shalt put thy thumb on the same hand downwards, on the cartilage of the middle of thy brest. When thou sayest 40000^. thou shalt lay the same upright, and stretched forth on thy navell. When thou sayest 50000^. thou shalt lay thy thumb of the same hand downard [downward] on thy navell. When thou sayest 60000^. thou shalt hold thy left thigh with the same, being downards [downwards]. When thou sayest 70000^. the same shalt put upon thy thumb upright. When thou sayest 80000^. thou shalt put the same downward on thy thigh. When thou sayest 90000^. thou shalt hold thy loyns [loins] with the same, thy thumb being turned downwards. But when thou sayest 100000^. or 200000^. and so unto to 900000^. thou shalt in the same order as we have spoken, fill them up on the right part of thy body. But when thou sayest 1000000^. thou shall joyn thy hands together, and clasp thy fingers one within the other. Let these suffice which have been observed out of Beda; Thou shalt finde more of these in Brother Luke of Saint Sepulchers, in his great Arithmetick. (http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/agripp2b.htm#chap16)

 

There is a tendency to think of hand gestures as being something unique to Eastern esoteric practices, this text should make clear that there is warrant for such practices within the Western Tradition.

 

At the beginning Agrippa first mentions one explanation for the use of gestures:

 

"as they seemed to me ridiculous gesturings, and I did think they were certain occult agreements of the divels"

 

This would have been a devastating criticism of them at the time, since this would mean an explicit or implicit pact had been entered into with these "divels" and would have made them something which could not be advocated publicly. In modern times we are not subject to this limitation and may more freely examine the possibility of a connection with spiritual beings of one sort or another. Agrippa then starts his defense of the practice:

 

"after I did more seriously examine the matter, then I did presently understand that they were not the compacts of divels"

 

Agrippa rejects this explanation, but then he puts forward a very interesting explanation for them which ties them in with Qabalah and spell magic by maintaining that they really represent numbers, for in Qabalah letters and thus words have numbers:

 

"there lay in them the reason of numbers, by which the ancients did by the various bending forward, and backward, their hands, and fingers represent numbers, by whose gesturings the Magiciand did silently signifie words unknown by sound, various with numbers, yet of great vertue"

 

This is an interesting perspective in itself, but when you combine it with the idea of numbering and then spelling through these hand gestures the names of spirits and the Gods:

"and did with sacred silence worship the Gods that rule over the world"

 

The hand positions become a representation of the numbers and by reason of that correspondence to letters and names can resonate with divine powers. Thus one can unify the two perspectives and free that practice of the diabolical taint ascribed to it by its critics.

 

I hope people find these ideas interesting and suggestive.

[Sifu ReL]

Thanks for your replies , I enjoyed reading them. I use kuji in when training in martial arts, I practice the kuji kiri cuts, buy ever time I get done, I forget what I wanted to put in the matrix, almost like after I do the cuts, anything that I wanted to do didn't matter, I since left kuji kiri alone to cultivate my Qi, now I feel like I have enough Qi , I wanna finish on that path to Being a majutsusi mage, but I don't have any ideas, to develop a technique use ing kuji kiri,.....p.m. The technique that I will develope will be for combat. And another one for healing even though the healing technique I know is fine