Chi Weightlifting

[thaddeus]

All,

Hate to think about bringing this topic up again, but the more I learn the more I'm starting to see some value in this practice for health and longevity. Anyone know any sources of information besides Chia and Master Tu?

Thanks,

T

[Yoda]

Steve Justa in Rock, Iron, Steel makes a case for isometric training having incredible carryover to other areas of life and being an amazing way to train to gain great strength. I would think that the contract and hold method (no weights) would work nicely in this application with an extremely low risk factor. With Xenolith and Trunk mentioning it favorably recently plus Witch and Cat talking about pelvic floor contraction training does put the issue in the spotlight.

 

At least for me, just doing regular pelvic floor contractions as part of a spinal breathing/mco and asana type practice is adequate for my current needs. I've only been doing so on a daily basis for a few months, so I'm very much the beginner on this important subject.

[Trunk]

Anyone know any sources of information besides Chia and Master Tu?

James McNeil.

[thaddeus]

James McNeil.

Do you know which one has the weightlifting info in it? I'm assuming the s*x dvd, which seems a bit prurient to me, but it doesn't mention it per se..

T

[Trunk]

Do you know which one has the weightlifting info in it? I'm assuming the s*x dvd, which seems a bit prurient to me, but it doesn't mention it per se..

I'm not sure - I really don't know what parts are/aren't in the dvd. I met someone who studied with McNeil; I haven't. The portion of his site that deals with it is Sex for Health. Click on the six little tabs that display numbers for different parts of it. They refer to the weight lifting practices as "shih shui". Beyond that, you'd have to contact him (hover cursor over "contact").

[thelerner]

I admire the McNeil site for listing the lineage so completely. One thing that struck me about the site is that the Masters he lists aren't particularly long lived. I think one or two older men 89 and 80, one was 75, the others were 50 and 40 something. Its not to denegrate the art but its always nice to have old wizened men in your lineage.

 

Ofcourse for all I know a truck got the 40 year old, and jealous husbands did away with the 50 and 89 year old. And who knows how short there lives might have been without the training?

 

Michael

[thaddeus]

One thing that struck me about the site is that the Masters he lists aren't particularly long lived. I think one or two older men 89 and 80, one was 75, the others were 50 and 40 something. Its not to denegrate the art but its always nice to have old wizened men in your lineage.

I remember reading somewhere about someone calculating the ages of the 'masters' and noting that most, if not all, were not particularly long lived.

 

Also totally anecdotally, but it seems whenever i read an obit in one of the magazines it's usually a hard stylist

by heart attack or aneyurism fairly young.

 

I heard from a pretty high level internal teacher that in china Yi Chuan is falling into disfavor because many of the master are dying early from strokes. Pretty interesting.

 

Anyway, if you click on the articles section, in 1987 there's an article with his taiji teacher. Look at the photos, the guy is in his 80s. Looks pretty darn fit to me!

T

[thaddeus]

I'm not sure - I really don't know what parts are/aren't in the dvd. I met someone who studied with McNeil; I haven't. The portion of his site that deals with it is Sex for Health. Click on the six little tabs that display numbers for different parts of it. They refer to the weight lifting practices as "shih shui". Beyond that, you'd have to contact him (hover cursor over "contact").

Wow..I had to kill that page quickly. That kind of explicit stuff raises all kinds of red flags for me--that's messed up. Anyway, called the number and it's disconnected...

T

[mYTHmAKER]

The portion of his site that deals with it is Sex for Health.

The name of one of the instructors is Dagmar Wanke

[xenolith]

There's this, which refers to chi weightlifting as an advanced form of iron shirt kung fu which employs straining of the scrotum for marrow cleansing.

 

I've practiced chi weightlifting in the Tu Jin-Sheng method which employs straining of the penis (and all that it connects to) for many years. Should you choose to ask questions regarding my experience with it, I'll happily answer them.

 

Love.

 

xeno

Edited February 2, 2007 by xenolith

[thaddeus]

I've practiced chi weightlifting in the Tu Jin-Sheng method which employs straining of the penis (and all that it connects to) for many years. Should you choose to ask questions regarding my experience with it, I'll happily answer them.

Most definitely! Did you learn from the video? What do you think of the video? Any thoughts you have on the practice would be welcome..

Thanks,

T

[xenolith]

I've not seen the video. I'd rather respond to specific questions than make general comments, but I will say that the practice has facilitated much spiritual evolution. I consider it essential to my practice. This post explains much of why.

 

Love.

 

xeno

Edited February 3, 2007 by xenolith

[thaddeus]

I've not seen the video. I'd rather respond to specific questions than make general comments..

Gotcha..i backburnered the CCO stuff, so I didn't get to read your endorsement of the weightlifting. Seems to me there are several different approaches to lifting. For example, you could just 'deadlift' using the whole pelvic floor. You can lift and hold. I think the holding may strengthen the body's fascia network and improve mula bandha related work. I think regarding swinging, it would be best to maintain a neutral pelvis and allow the pelvic floor to do the work..any comments on those comments? Obviously it's great to draw on your experience, so I appreciate any insight you can offer. Tu mentions a 'chi gong' exercise to build up enough chi before you start the weightlifting, can you briefly describe what that is? I'm very curious about it. Did you learn at his school or through a student? How do you recommend starting this practice?

Thanks,

T

[Yoda]

He's got cool exercise gear:

 

http://www.99estore.com/Html/newtrainingmachine.htm

[thelerner]

I wouldn't want to try this particular style of weightlifting without instructor supervision and feed back. I also would want to have had a few kids before hand, just in case.

 

There's always the story of the young practioner who tried it once, looked down and said 'Wow, great practice, My penis has grown 3 feet!" Unfortunately he was staring at his intestine.

 

Thus, be careful.

 

 

Michael

[thaddeus]

I wouldn't want to try this particular style of weightlifting without instructor supervision and feed back. I also would want to have had a few kids before hand, just in case.

 

There's always the story of the young practioner who tried it once, looked down and said 'Wow, great practice, My penis has grown 3 feet!" Unfortunately he was staring at his intestine.

 

Thus, be careful.

Michael

One needs to be careful with any practice. Even reverse breathing and other pressure related breathing can cause problems. It's really not that complicated. Chia's video goes into enough detail related to the safe way of doing the practice. To be honest, there's not much difference between this and certain positions in s*x that put the same if not more stress on the pelvic floor in the same way--also the age old towel hanging trick is similar. The only real difference is the stress on the seminal ducts and those structures. One just needs to exhibit common sense. I see alot of people in the gym doing really stupid things, so the admonition is true of all practices.

I'm getting information from alot of sources that indicate this practice may have far reaching benefits that outweigh any risks. I think the key would be tread slowly on any weight increase. Even just 1 lb will be better than doing a bare kegel and look at the benefits of that practice..

What do you think?

T

[xenolith]

Hi T. Good questions. I agree with your supositions regarding holding and a neutral pelvis. Chi gong exercise is an important precursor to chi weightlifting for at least two reasons, it warms up the the muscles that will be strained, most importantly the BS, and develops the jing energy that will be distilled into chi during the weightlifting training. Simple overhand jelqing is probably the best method of achieving these objectives. Which brings up two important points, training should include roughly equal portions of time spent kegeling against an unliftable (by kegel flexing) training weight and kegeling against a liftable (by kegel flexing) training weight. Liftable training weight is typically about half of one's unliftable training weight. One's deadlift weight is typically about twice one's uniftable training weight. Point two: chi weightlifting is not a end unto itself. It is a means to an end. That end being achievement of CCOs (and of course, the mastery of MCO manipulation that is implicit in CCO cultivation). One can get there without chi weightlifting, but the getting there is accelerated by means of chi weightlifting. It's much like having a bike instead of just your feet when getting to the other end of the county is your goal. Just makes the achievement easier. Suffice it to say, I suggest that you bring the 'CCO stuff' to the front burner.

 

I've learned chi weightlifting from Life. Sorry if that sounds corny, but it's as accurate a response to your questions as there is.

 

With regard to starting, the essential information is simply start. An apparatus to hang weights from is required. A silk scarf works very well. Starting from a dorsal position at the base, simply wrap it forward in a crossing pattern (like a chinese finger toy) until the the tag ends are positioned either at the ventral or dorsal portion of the shaft just behind the coronal ridge of the glans. I prefer a ventral position. Others may prefer a dorsal position. Then tie the tag ends together and attach your weight(s) and you're ready to go! After a jing generating training session of course. Use a low weight at first, 1 lb. or so. Increase weight as your intuition guides you.

 

Once very heavy weights are being used one will likely need to use a different attachment apparatus. Let your intuition guide you in this instance too. And in all instances.

 

Love.

 

xeno

 

p.s. It seems that my link above ("This post") links to post #1 of the CCO thread, not post #14 which I had intended. Not sure why. Anyhoo, now you know.

Edited February 3, 2007 by xenolith

[Spectrum]

Someone explain this photo please? Looks interesting. Anyone got any video of this guy moving around? I'd like to see some of these exercises he's doing. I assume "tai chi ball" or something to that nature. (photo title) What's the ball made of what's it weight? That's an amazing amount of lumber he's got in his kwon.

 

 

Spectrum

[thaddeus]

I've learned chi weightlifting from Life. Sorry if that sounds corny, but it's as accurate a response to your questions as there is.

 

Thanks for all the tips! But you did say you studied under the Master Tu method, so I thought you were representing his technique. If so, can you please outline the qigong method he uses to build up chi? I am aware of a few 'back to youth' techniques and they all have the same general idea of absorbing energy via points in the head and traveling downwards, slightly different angles on what to do beforehand but generally heating up the mingmen, huyin area. I'm just really curious if it's something like that. If it's 'secret' then I'll just wait until I can take a lesson on that somehow. Using this qigong, one of his students said that if his wife wants to do it and he's tired, he does this qigong and he's ready to go in a few minutes. so what guy wouldn't want to learn that!

Anyway, I've seen Tu in specials on TV and he seems like a real genuine and nice person. So anything else you can share on the training is really appreciated. BTW, on my own, it figures a reverse breath is useful on the lift. What do you think?

Thanks buddy,

T

 

Someone explain this photo please?

Spectrum

Not sure about this photo, but moving balls and bricks on a table is a common traditional training method for the dantian.

T

[xenolith]

...you did say you studied under the Master Tu method...

Yes I did. The truth of the matter is that I found chi weightlifting through intuition in the course of my SKF training. Many years later I learned of Tu Jin-Sheng's methods which correlated very closely to those that I'd developed. For the sake of simplicity, ease of communication and out of humility, I referred to what I practice as Tu Jin-Sheng's method instead of as xeno's. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. It was borne out of my interest in helping you without engaging my ego. In order to help me in this regard I'll appreciate it if you'll not ask further questions regarding how I came to understand chi weightlifting. Thank you in advance. Please understand that I'm happy to help you with technique if you'd like. I'm equally happy to be not asked to help. But no more questions about me please.

I am aware of a few 'back to youth' techniques and they all have the same general idea of absorbing energy via points in the head and traveling downwards, slightly different angles on what to do beforehand but generally heating up the mingmen, huyin area.

I know nothing about this. I use traditional Taoist semen kung to generate jing which is distilled to chi during the weight training and is then mobilized through the MCO for purposes of healing or spiritual evolution.

Using this qigong, one of his students said that if his wife wants to do it and he's tired, he does this qigong and he's ready to go in a few minutes. so what guy wouldn't want to learn that!

Indeed.

Anyway, I've seen Tu in specials on TV and he seems like a real genuine and nice person. So anything else you can share on the training is really appreciated.

I think he is too. If something comes to mind that I think you'd benefit from, I'll make sure to mention it. I think I've shared the seminal info at this point though.

...on my own, it figures a reverse breath is useful on the lift. What do you think?

I breathe in during the lift and breathe out during the hold.

Thanks buddy,

You're very welcome. Thank you for your politeness. Best regards and

 

Love.

 

xeno

[thaddeus]

In order to help me in this regard I'll appreciate it if you'll not ask further questions regarding how I came to understand chi weightlifting.

I think I understand. I very much appreciate all your insights. I guess the rest is all academic at this point.

Btw, I think it's just a matter of time before a urologist picks up on the value of this training and markets a device that is acceptable for the masses.

I'll write more later, just wanted to thank you..

T

[mantis]

thaddeus, have you had any progress with this type of training?

[gendao]

[mantis]

broken capillaries are no big deal as long as they're small, you sometimes get them from going to extremes while jelqing. i'm curious too as if to you are lifting weights from your sack or your tool ?

[xenolith]

'bout 50 lbs.

 

My apologies to those offended by my skin.

 

Offered to inspire. Few words will further be. Photos not.

 

Hints only will I show. Your intent is all.

 

Love.

 

xeno

Edited October 19, 2009 by xenolith