Difference between Qigong and Neigong?

[templetao]

Ill break down what i meant in my earlier post on this thread.

 

Kung Fu roughly means the skill attained thru hard work and time.

Nei Kung means the inner skill that is developed over time.

 

You can have inner power with qigong now developing this power as to build skill in it is neikung.

 

So the methods of taichi bagua and xingyi their energy sets are mostly considered neikung because they teach you how to use your inner power to thus build up skill with it.

[Friend]

Edited March 29, 2013 by Friend

[templetao]

To further highlight my points in this thread.

 

Given what i said earlier that neikung is inner skill then the ablility to transmit energy from one person to another for healing so that it builds skill in time is neikung as well. So when you hear or read about a neikung system know that it wil leave you with some inner skill either for healing or martial purposes.

 

To spell out my point even further. Any qigong that you lean that is valid in time will lead to internal power but it most likely wont lead to internal skill there is most likely another type of training for that.

[宁]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/24011-old-neigong-manual/

 

One of the best definitions, by one of the best contributors on this subject IMO:

 

 

The term qigong has been widely used to cover all "energetic" practices, including in most cases "athletic-only" ones, since the 50s but it is not a new terms.
I have a few manuals dealing with "qigong" (in the title) from Republican era and many others which discuss "qigong" in their content, long before the 50s then.

Historically speaking, as everything else in Daoism and in the Chinese Tradition in general, there is not ONE single interpretation of a subject or a term but different schools see and believe in different ideas often at the exact opposite side of the spectrum. This does not mean that "everything works" or that everything is true, of course, but schools with a history of accomplished masters can practically testify to the goodness of their theories/believes/practices.

Nowadays, for as much as it is my experience, most schools and traditions labelled as "qigong" transmit either a void kind of gymnastic or at best a form of 'tuna' which is meant to balance the flow of "qi" already existing in the pratictioners' body. No matter what the advertisement say, this is used at best to produce balance of the body functions and therefore health.

The term "neigong" has now been used in place of "qigong" in many schools because it sells better, but in the vast majority of cases they still teach some kind of qigong.
This practice should allow for the absorption of "qi" from outside and the usage of it to strengthen the body, the mind or to be used for any purpose the pratictioner has as its goal.

Needless to says there is some little overlapping between the two practices but in general they are very different. A typical "neigong" usually looks like the practice you can see on the documentary "secrets of the yogis" or whatever it is called (I think there is a thread open here on Thetaobums).

Finally, for what concerns your question about the possibility for qigong and neigong to complement each other, it very much depends on the specific practice but in general I would say no, they don't. As a matter of fact many or most (actual) qigong can be practiced together since they work energies already existing in the body. Neigong, on the other side, creates, builds and generate a new kind of energy from the outside. The energy thus created has a "frequency" and characteristics peculiar to the system (the way it is created) so mixing this system with another would create huge problems as you would be mixing TWO different kind of energies.

Best

YM

[Thunder_Gooch]

If it doesn't involve profoundly deep states of seated meditation to gather chi/qi I personally don't consider it to be neigong, but rather a more tai chi like practice.

[Ya Mu]

"...Neigong, on the other side, creates, builds and generate a new kind of energy from the outside. The energy thus created has a "frequency" and characteristics peculiar to the system (the way it is created) so mixing this system with another would create huge problems as you would be mixing TWO different kind of energies.
...
YM"

 

And this, is a very good point.

 

Another good point about most qigong which is why I said the majority would not even recognize neigong:

"Nowadays, for as much as it is my experience, most schools and traditions labelled as "qigong" transmit either a void kind of gymnastic or at best a form of 'tuna' which is meant to balance the flow of "qi" already existing in the pratictioners' body. No matter what the advertisement say, this is used at best to produce balance of the body functions and therefore health."

[Truth Seeker]

The fact that there are so many divergent opinions here and acknowledged areas of overlap between qigong and neigong suggests how little difference there can be between the two in terms of qi development. Neigong often refers to a martial purpose, such as in taijiquan or baguazhang, while we usually see qigong being used to develop, circulate and even transmit qi for health. However, some people use qigong exercises to develop their qi for martial arts, and some neigong practitioners use their qi for healing. So as long as the result of the training is limited to the development of qi - regardless of its later use - there seems to be small difference in whether you call it qigong or neigong, and small difference whether you're starting with the MCO or harmonizing organs, or whether you're focusing on the breath or the qi itself. There are qigong AND neigong forms that increase qi, store qi, move qi, and transmit qi. So honestly, if one practice gets similar results as another practice, then how much value can be placed in calling one system neigong vs. qigong, or vice versa?

 

And yet there IS an area in which qigong and neigong differ greatly. Unless I missed it, no one has brought up the "A" word yet - alchemy. Since there are few alchemical masters teaching publicly, we mostly have to go by ancient texts. Reading them, we see that non-martial ancient neigong was not simply about developing qi but using all three treasures (jing, qi and shen) to transform ourselves on the energetic, physical and spiritual levels. Qigong has much more modest goals. Hence the fascination with modern neigong master John "Chang." Many people see him light a paper on fire and say, "Cool!" But the real attainment is the physical/energetic transformation he achieved by developing and combining yin and yang centers, as well as his accompanying spiritual pursuits that led to visions and spirit communications. This is conscious transformation through training, and is fundamentally broader and different than qigong.

[gendao]

Many talk of the neigong and or the inner alchemy (neidan) process as being about transforming jing-qi-shen-wu, which is the movement of the natural cycel from unmanifest to manifest. But this is the post-heaven orientation. Daoist meditation is about returning the shen, not sending it outwards. Neigong follows the reversed process of wu-shen-qi-jing, returning from the manifest to the unmanifest. It is this that enabled the remarkable accomplishments of the sages. Both approaches talk of dantian and various things, but the methods are different.

I'm a bit confused by these correlations? Doesn't jing-->wu = manifest-->unmanifest & wu-->jing = unmanifest-->manifest?

 

I mean, jing = manifest & wu = unmanifest, right?

[ChiDragon]

Chi Kung(氣功) is to learn how to breathe properly for the body to function most effectively. When one can learn to breathe until the breath has "sunken to the low dan tian(氣沈丹田)" or abdominal breathing, it was considered to be that one has been reached the goal of the ultimate method of breathing. Once the goal of Chi Kung was accomplished, one can start the Neigong(內功) practice. Neigong is to increase the internal body strength. Hence, Chi Kung is the prerequisite for Neigong. One cannot go to the Neigong stage without the know how of Chi Kung.

Edited March 7, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Starjumper]

Maybe this can clarify it a little bit: http://www.tienshan.net/description.html

[ChiDragon]

Maybe this can clarify it a little bit: http://www.tienshan.net/description.html

 

It didn't make it any clearer but worse....!!! No wonder it was so confusing because people are believing anything online is true and thought it was gospel.

Edited March 7, 2014 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

It didn't make it any clearer but worse....!!! No wonder it was so confusing because people are believing anything online is true and thought it was gospel.

 

FYI: He didn't just read it online and thought it was gospel... he wrote this gospel

 

If you want to criticize someone's work the maybe offer to clear up what is worse and what is better. Otherwise it's just being critical for no productive reason to the author.

[ChiDragon]

Chi Kung(氣功) is to learn how to breathe properly for the body to function most effectively. When one can learn to breathe until the breath has "sunken to the low dan tian(氣沈丹田)" or abdominal breathing, it was considered to be that one has been reached the goal of the ultimate method of breathing. Once the goal of Chi Kung was accomplished, one can start the Neigong(內功) practice. Neigong is to increase the internal body strength. Hence, Chi Kung is the prerequisite for Neigong. One cannot go to the Neigong stage without the know how of Chi Kung.

 

Based on this definition, Chi Kung is all internal and there is nothing external about it.

Edited March 7, 2014 by ChiDragon

[dwai]

Chi kung is all internal and there is nothing external about it. Chi is internal, the gong fu is internal so why force the outside on the inside?

[ChiDragon]

.......... the gong fu is internal so why force the outside on the inside?

What is that mean.......???

[dwai]

What is that mean.......???

It means don't look for something outside when it's on the inside

[dawei]

I tend to view the association of inner and outer as classifications. But in reality, there is no separating them on some level. I cannot just make my body an enclosed system without any external interaction....

 

One might say: I inhale, therefore I am internal; I exhale, therefore I am external.

 

But to me, that is backwards: To inhale means I am external; to exhale means I am internal.

 

But if we break it down, cut it up, and dice and slice it up... we can make some distinctions as to their source and goal.

[ChiDragon]

One might say: I inhale, therefore I am internal; I exhale, therefore I am external.

 

But to me, that is backwards: To inhale means I am external; to exhale means I am internal.

 

But if we break it down, cut it up, and dice and slice it up... we can make some distinctions as to their source and goal.

 

The inhale/exhale aspect is only about breathing. It is only part of the Chi Kung process. It seems that someone only has a minute or no knowledge about the cultivation of Chi Kung and its purpose. Perhaps there were too much misleading information out there. The notion of "internal" is really not emphasized on inhalation. The main idea is really about the cultivation of the "internal" of the body rather than breathing. Indeed, breathing is only an aiding process to get to the final result "inside" the body. The "inside" is the real thought for the "internal" of the body.

Edited March 8, 2014 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

The inhale/exhale aspect is only about breathing. It is only part of the Chi Kung process. It seems that someone only has a minute or no knowledge about the cultivation of Chi Kung and its purpose. Perhaps there were too much misleading information out there. The notion of "internal" is really not emphasized on inhalation. The main idea is really about the cultivation of the "internal" of the body rather than breathing. Indeed, breathing is only an aiding process to get to the final result "inside" the body. The "inside" is the real thought for the "internal" of the body.

 

Yes, I am talking in metaphor

 

And I think your further comments are "on point" to clarify it.

 

Nice post.

[ChiDragon]

When the terms were used such as "internal" or external" in martial arts, the implication was actually referred or emphasized to the inside or outside the body. In this case, the purpose of Chi Kung is to enhance the function and physical structure of the body without any external instrument. Therefore, it was classified as internal practice(內功, Neigong). However, if the practitioner use something to pound on any part of the body or vice versa, then it would be classified as external practice(外功, Weigong).


Edited to add:
PS....
Kung Fu is classified as external because of the fast movement techniques which cause fatigue due to the exhaustion after practice.

Edited March 9, 2014 by ChiDragon

[spatha]

Can someone give an explanation of what the differences between these two are?

 

Qigong is Neigong.

[ChiDragon]

Can someone give an explanation of what the differences between these two are?

[spatha]

give an explanation of what the differences

No difference, in general.

[ChiDragon]

 

No difference, in general.

Which comes first between Chi Kung(氣功) and Neigong(內功)......???

 

Edited March 13, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Starjumper]

Qigong is Neigong.

 

I think the most proper way to express this idea, which is close, is to say:

 

Chi Kung forms are subsets of Nei Kung systems. Systems vs. forms.

 

Chi Kung: small sets of exercises taken from Nei Kung systems.

 

Nei Kung: huge holistic systems with many thousands of techniques.

 

Therefore every single one of those people who claim to be selling Nei Kung in things like weekend seminars or simple exercise sets are liars.

 

Also, it should be noted that there are rather large segments of Nei kung cultivation that are unknown in Chi Kung, and we Nei Kung masters aim to keep it that way.

 

and once again, if some Bozo sells a secret technique out of Nei Kung rest assured that it is both out of context, it's missing it's 'companion' practices, and it's missing all the foundational chi kung parts needed to make it work well. It's also missing the other 9000 techniques, so sorry fellas, it's STILL not Nei Kung you are buying.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Starjumper