Difference between Qigong and Neigong?

[JustARandomPanda]

Can someone give an explanation of what the differences between these two are?

[Wells]

Can someone give an explanation of what the differences between these two are?

 

Search function:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/12458-the-difference-between-chi-kung-and-nei-kung/

 

And as far as I understand it: In China, Nei Kung describes the internal exercises of a Taichi system, where the outer body movement is reduced and the chi is moved internally more directly with the mind. A complete Nei Kung system includes all of the internal exercises of a Taichi system. A Chi Kung system describes a smaller subset of all of the Nei Kung exercises of a taichi system.

[liminal_luke]

I don't have a definitive answer to this question but I'd like to put forward my understanding for now, and perhaps others will chime in with a more authoritive answer later.

 

Qigong: Exercises and systems, usually moving, to strengthen the chi. Thus you could do a set of moving exercises to strengthen the kidney chi, for instance. Working with post-heaven energies.

 

Neigung: More meditative techniques to alchemically change the elements. Kan and Li...manipulating (cooking) the yin and yang energies in the body (and cosmos) to refine them into something else, something deeper.

[hydrogen]

Qigong is a general term, which includes Neigong (internal art) and Waigong (external art).

 

However, since the Waigong is well known and demonstratable (break a stack of stones with your bare hand), whenever Qigong is mentioned, it's usually referred to Waigong. Most martial arts are Waigong.

 

If you break a stack of stone with a lion roar (your sound), it's considered Neigong. Most of the alchemy stuff are Neigong.

 

In simplistic view, the Waigong only cultivates the LDT and channels connecting external parts to the LDT. The Neigon trains all the internal organs.

 

Of course, theare are over laps. And most Neigong practioners do a bit of Waigong. Some Waigong practioners don't anything about Neigong. Of course, there are systems that claim to be excellent in both.

[Wells]

I guess there are many different opinions about that.

As far as I remember from Jim McMillans book, he considers Mo Pai Nei Kung as such, because it brings energy into tantien and strictly keeps it there. But Chi Kung would circle the energy through the meridians!

 

The definition in my first post is the definition of Gary Clyman and it applies to his Chi Kung and Nei Kung systems in regard to Temple Style Taichi.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

I should also add that what many people consider as "Chi Kung" is in reality "Taichi moving meditation" and not really "internal" exercise in the sense of the word!

I guess that makes the confusion perfect!

[hydrogen]

I guess there are many different opinions about that.

As far as I remember from Jim McMillans book, he considers Mo Pai Nei Kung as such, because it keeps or brings energy into tantien and keeps it there. But Chi Kung would circle the energy through the meridians!

 

The definition in my first post is the definition of Gary Clyman and it applies to his Chi Kung and Nei Kung systems in regard to Temple Style Taichi.

 

They're direct translation from Chinese. It's not an opinion. There are clearly defined as "Nei" (inner) and "Wai" (outer).

 

Since every one wants to be "in", nobody wants to be "out". I'm in the inner circle is a lot cooler than I'm an outsider. Nei" sounds secretive, mysterious and deep. Some Waigong system slap the lable "Nei" to boost its image.

[Wells]

They're direct translation from Chinese. It's not an opinion. There are clearly defined as "Nei" (inner) and "Wai" (outer).

 

Since every one wants to be "in", nobody wants to be "out". I'm in the inner circle is a lot cooler than I'm an outsider. Nei" sounds secretive, mysterious and deep. Some Waigong system slap the lable "Nei" to boost its image.

 

I was talking about the difference between Nei Kung and Chi Kung. And if I analyze the opinions of Gary, Jim and Bruce Frantzis (see the thread I linked to!), there are surely different opinions.

 

And concerning "Nei" and "Wai" Kung, we are talking about chinese language, therefore there is no direct translation that allows only one single interpretation!

 

"Waigong" can simply mean that you train the physical strength of your muscles, tendons, ligaments and bones, as you do it in all the external martial arts. From that pov, "Waigong" doesn't suggest any connection to chi, tantien or similar subtle conceptes at all.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

In simplistic view, the Waigong only cultivates the LDT and channels connecting external parts to the LDT.

 

BTW, this is the definition of Jim McMillan for NEI Kung!

[Wells]

 

Gary Clyman about the difference between his Chi Kung & his Nei Kung system.

[hydrogen]

Gary Clyman can call his double W "mansion" or "palace" if he likes. But it won't change the definition of "mansion".

[Wells]

Gary Clyman can call his double W "mansion" or "palace" if he likes. But it won't change the definition of "mansion".

 

Dude, chinese words ALWAYS have to be interpreted according to the context.

There is no single definition, if you want it to be or not.

[templetao]

Qigong means chi work. So this encompasses the whole thing. Nei Kung means inner work which can be referred to as inner skill for this inner skill is a power in and of itself.

 

to build and amplify the original power of the LDT(storing chi in the real dantian) is what chi work is about. To train this power and to make it into a fist or palm is an inner skill aka neikung. So this is why neikung is mostly attributed to internal styles. Their is hardly a neikung set that is not attached to a fist or fighting style i mean.

 

To build the electrical energy in the body and to learn how to use it is neichiaquan.

 

Energy sets from powerful to mild outside of the fighting arts are referred to as qigong simply because they do not train your inner power.

 

I can take it deeper. There are many many types of jing even burning palm is a type of jing expression emitting light is a type of jing expression. and this is not including the 108 jing powers from classical internal martial arts.

 

Here is the easiest way to tell the difference between a neikung master and a chikung master.

 

A chikung master can be very very powerful but has very little internal skill.

 

A neikung master can be very very powerful but the neikung master has inner skill and can express his inner power in various ways.

 

When it comes down to the energy training its all about what inner skill does your art leave you with?

 

So lets take a bit deeper the energy you work with and the vibration you develop varies. The vibration you cultivate can be very destructive in nature or healing. You can say the vibration is the manifestation of the energy you are cultivating and this accounts for various skills like burning palm and so on.

[Ya Mu]

Can someone give an explanation of what the differences between these two are?

Neigong is Qigong but Qigong is not necessarily Neigong.

 

The Term "Qigong" was coined by my teacher's teacher Hu Yao Zhen and his contemporaries as an "umbrella" term to cover all the practices. These days mostly external movements including calisthenics are usually referred to as Qigong while internal cultivation practices are usually referred to as Neigong.

 

One problem with these category descriptions is that a person can LOOK at an external movement and think it only Qigong when it is actually Neigong, so a lot of it has to do with intent and energy vibration, and system. Also, one can read about a system that some call neigong but when they practice it find that it is not.

 

Another way of explaining would be that a person versed in Qigong may not even recognize Neigong, although a person versed in authentic Neigong should be able to tell the difference and tell if a qigong form has "qi cultivation" or if it is only calisthenics and has no more ability to cultivate qi than rebounding or other exercise.

 

I know when I first started teaching in the USA the term "Neigong" was barely known. But to be fair (HA HA) the term "Qigong" was more widely known but still only around 1 in a 1000 had heard the term. "Is that some type of yoga?" "Yeah, that's kung fu, right?"

 

And then of course we get into the term "Medical Qigong" which has been bastardized to seven hells. It should mean "wai qi liao fa" which means "healing with external energy" but many who can't do wai qi liao fa wish to also have the term in their marketing, so they say medical qigong when referring to exercises they prescribe. While I have no problem with doctors prescribing qigong, one could easily take that train of thought and term all qigong "medical qigong". It is not.

 

Now, why did I mention medical qigong? Cause now I am going to say that mostly neigong is what develops/cultivates the type/quality of qi that is used/highest efficacy in medical qigong whereas a person could do many of the exercises called "qigong" for 20 years and never be able to project qi. Authentic neigong time to be able to project qi? In as little as 2 days of practice, working in clinic in as little as 3 months, proficiency in as little as 3 years. Mastery in as little as 3-5 years.

 

Confusing, isn't it? Cause now someone is going to come along, disagree, and say the REAL definition is ....

[Sloppy Zhang]

^ What Ya Mu said.

 

Bruce Frantzis writes a bit about this distinction as well.

 

Qigoing- the gong of qi, energy. Works a lot of the channels. Usually movement, sometimes stillness (as others have said, you can produce a lot of qi movement while physically moving little with the right development). Qi energy. Developing all that. Building the dantian. Use it for health, use it for martial power. Maybe use it to heal the emotions. Maybe.

 

Nei gong- the gong of nei, internal stuff. Usually stillness, sometimes movement (in things like meditative Bagua/Tai Chi from the right lineage, a lot of movement! so like Ya Mu said, no hard and fast rule with this one if you have real internal development) You can use neigong to feel and develop the physical body and qi, sure, the principles will work. But where it REALLY has its oomph is where it touches the emotions, mind, psychic energies, karma, essence of humanity, body of the Tao, etc. It is far further/deeper/wider reaching than qigong is.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Sloppy Zhang

[Sifu ReL]

Simply put...

 

Qi gong is only Yang Qi (internal power)

 

Nei gong is both Yang & Yin Qi which can be use seperate or together.

 

Yin Qi (primordial Power)

Yin & Yang Qi (Magical Qi)

[寒月 Hanyue]

Confusing, isn't it? Cause now someone is going to come along, disagree, and say the REAL definition is ....

 

Yup!! Cos the real definition is.....

 

Oh wait, er.

 

Some people try to go on about the word qigong having existed hundreds of years ago, which it did. However, and it is a rather big however. The definition, use and understanding of the term is a modern one, and that understanding is usually projected back in time (same with most of these terms), and then those old texts are used to justify the modern view of whoever.

 

The modern definition and use of the word qigong comes from Ya Mu's grandteachers and the rest of the small group tasked with the responsibility of getting the myriad cultivation methods out to a more public audience for their health and benefit. Ironically it seems that even within that small group, just what was implied by the word varied a little.

 

So ultimately, technically, it can mean whatever you were taught it means, that is the beauty of the Chinese language. But ignoring the view of the term by those who proposed it's use in the first place is kinda disrespectful in my view.

 

The separation of things into two, wai (outer) and nei (inner) is a yin-yang organisational polarity model used by the Chinese for a very long time. The use of the word 'gong' (work: time & effort) is also very very common. This has led to the uses of words like neigong in different disciplines or arts, and it does not automatically imply that they are all talking about the same thing!! It is simply a way to differentiate aspects of the art. So even "neijiaquan" (internal martial art, if you beleive in such a thing) has waigong (outer work) AND neigong (inner work).

 

Daoist neigong is also NOT the same thing as martial neigong, although there are also plenty of lineages that have added Daoist neigong into their martial art, so it has BOTH martial and Daoist neigong combined together. It all gets very confusing, until you simply accept there never has been, and never will be a singular definition of ANY of these terms.

 

When you mix martial and Daoist views you get a different perspective to Daoism or martial art alone.

 

Learn to differentiate, and to appreciate what the teacher of that lineage is actually saying and look beyond the words they use! Never assume you know what they mean because you have A definition for a word they used!

 

All the best,

Edited February 21, 2013 by snowmonki

[Thunder_Gooch]

Neigong is more focused on deep states of meditation, absorbing and storing energy from the environment into the body while in these deep states.

 

Qigong is more active focused on tai chi like movements.

 

Neigong stores energy, qigong circulates it.

Edited February 21, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[ralis]

Which is the best form of Neigong? I am not interested in spending megabucks to learn it.

[JohnC]

Which is the best form of Neigong? I am not interested in spending megabucks to learn it.

Burning light explosions power inter-galactical planetary super nei gong.

 

Whatever nei gong pulls you. For me it's just like an internal interest. When I go looking, I find what I'm looking for.

 

But it also sounds like your not interested in investing(money or effort) and with that you probably wont get very far.

 

John

[Wells]

Which is the best form of Neigong? I am not interested in spending megabucks to learn it.

 

You know MY answer...

 

But it also sounds like your not interested in investing(money or effort) and with that you probably wont get very far.

 

Sounds true!

 

 

 

 

ralis, I guess it's best you wait if Stig will really visit Gary and if so, wait for his testimonial...and for the corresponding Fajin video!!!

You can decide after that!

Edited February 22, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Ya Mu]

Which is the best form of Neigong? I am not interested in spending megabucks to learn it.

 

Cost. The minimum cost, with any teacher, for 10 years of study is $ 163,800.

Assumptions are made to figure this: Assumption is that you value your time at $15 an hour. If more then the figure is higher. Assuming 3 hrs of practice per day. Bump that up to 5 hrs per day and of course the cost is higher.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Longmen Pai would be my vote at the moment, I am eagerly looking forward to the neigong teachings of the Zheng Yi sect by Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson.

 

http://www.laoziacademy.us/ (longmen pai website)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ling-Bao-Tong-Neng-Gong/dp/1470174545/ ($28.00 introductory longmen pai text)

 

http://www.daoistmagic.com/catalog.php?act=view_prod_info&id_prod=35915&i=&l=&sid=3bc5a026e3e74cd36b29e0a3d72e3636

 

(soon to be released text on the neigong teachings of the Zheng Yi sect.

[lifeforce]

Which is the best form of Neigong? I am not interested in spending megabucks to learn it.

 

I also think you know what my answer would be.

[lifeforce]

I think a lot of people on here equate neigong as being a higher form of qigong, as in the talk of powers etc.

Neigong simply means inner work, nothing else.