Plato and Diogenes

[9th]

Plato was discoursing on his theory of ideas and, pointing to the cups on the table before him, said while there are many cups in the world, there is only one `idea' of a cup, and this cupness precedes the existence of all particular cups.

"I can see the cup on the table," interupted Diogenes, "but I can't see the `cupness'".

"That's because you have the eyes to see the cup," said Plato, "but", tapping his head with his forefinger, "you don't have the intellect with which to comprehend `cupness'."

Diogenes walked up to the table, examined a cup and, looking inside, asked, "Is it empty?"

Plato nodded.

"Where is the `emptiness' which procedes this empty cup?" asked Diogenes.

Plato allowed himself a few moments to collect his thoughts, but Diogenes reached over and, tapping Plato's head with his finger, said "I think you will find here is the `emptiness'."

[manitou]

Interesting post.

 

Diogenes' response can be taken two ways when he tapped Plato's head. He might have been making a joke.

 

Or...he could have realized that the emptiness truly was in Plato's head because Plato was capable of seeing the idea of the cup. As it says in (some translations of) the DDJ, 'the utility of the cup is in its emptiness'.

 

So is our utility our emptiness. Emptiness of thought, without judgment, without criticism, without attachment. Perhaps Diogenes was paying Plato a supreme compliment.

[9th]

Perhaps there is something beyond either/or

[manitou]

Agreed.

[9th]

Diogenes was knee deep in a stream, washing vegetables.

 

Coming up to him, Plato said, "My good Diogenes, if you knew how to pay court to kings, you wouldn't have to wash vegetables."

 

"And," replied Diogenes, "If you knew how to wash vegetables, you wouldn't have to pay court to kings."

[Phi92]

Are we talking about Diogenes of Sinope? The Dog?

 

That was one crazy mot... man! It's hard to say what he meant.

 

Maybe he wanted to warn Plato that he didn't see all aspects of the cup. Maybe it was a joke.

[9th]

Plato considered Diogenes' stray-dog behavior unbecoming to one calling himself a philosopher.

 

"You really do live up to your name" he said to him disapprovingly one day.

 

"By the Gods, you are right for once Plato," replied Diogenes, and then baring his teeth, he added, "But at least I've sunk my teeth into philosophy."