Zhan zhuang pertaining to tai chi chuan

[phore]

Hello,

I am aware of the practice of zhan zhuang within taichi chuan.

In books I have encountered references to wu chi stance, great circle stance (taichi stance, hugging the tree), and on guard stances( cat stance.).

I have also seen a description of using the individual positions in the forms as stances (such as white crane spreads wings or single whip).

 

I have read "Chi Kung the Way of Power" by Lam Kam Chuen and it describes a standing stakes routine for Da Cheng Chuan. This seems effective, however I would appreciate some resources or advice on the practice of Zhan Zhuang within tai-chi.

Lovelight

[Astral Monk]

Standing posts are the foundation of all martial arts practice. Before you learn to sit, you need to learn to stand. Zhan Zhuang, however, is more akin to qigong than tai chi because motion is not required. Any type of Zhan Zhuang will improve your tai chi practice because it will help you improve your balance and rootedness and patience.

 

You can use any pose as a standing post, but I'm not sure of the energy impacts of using random postures. An excellent posture to practice for tai chi is this: feet, knee, and legs together, sit with legs bent, weight over the center of the feet, tailbone slightly tucked, head straight with chin slightly tucked, arms relaxed at sides, fingers naturally open.

 

This posture is like a high-horse stance but with the legs together. My sifu called it wuji, but as wuji is usually standing straight, I'm not sure if she was referring to just standing poses in general. I don't know if this posture has a common name, but once you do it, you'll see how it is found in virtually every tai chi movement as a starting point.

 

Only difference is for this posture you place your weight evenly on both feet, rather than on one side or the other.

 

 

If your balance and sit is weighing correctly, you should feel it in the inner thigh towards the knees.

 

You'll see a similar transition posture in Sun style tai chi, although the weight, as in most movements, is more toward one foot.

 

8)

[dwai]

http://www.amazon.com/Restoring-Your-Life-Energy-Well-Being/dp/1590309960/ref=la_B001K8IR56_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1361559316&sr=1-6

 

Master liao covers some very important standing meditations of temple style tai chi. Temple style has single form practice which incorporates holding specific forms like taichi stance, raise hands stance, etc. they are all zhang zuang

[phore]

Thank you.

I am familiar with the wuchi stance.

I will have to look into these books.

I am particularly interested in waysun Liaos book. I have read the taichi classics but have lost my copy.

Does he have any additional material pertaining to standing meditation in tai chi chuan. I notice he has some seminars on DVD available through his website.

[dwai]

Thank you.

I am familiar with the wuchi stance.

I will have to look into these books.

I am particularly interested in waysun Liaos book. I have read the taichi classics but have lost my copy.

Does he have any additional material pertaining to standing meditation in tai chi chuan. I notice he has some seminars on DVD available through his website.

 

There is a huge set of material on DVDs at the taichitaocenter.com

 

Depending on how much background you already have, you can choose the material.

 

I personally own 10 titles - all were gold standard stuff

 

 

 

[phore]

There is a huge set of material on DVDs at the taichitaocenter.comDepending on how much background you already have, you can choose the material. I personally own 10 titles - all were gold standard stuff

Could you point me to some of the titles with extensive Zhan Zhuang material.

Thank you

Lovelight

[dwai]

Could you point me to some of the titles with extensive Zhan Zhuang material.

Thank you

Lovelight

 

https://taichitaocenter.com/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=6

 

This has the basics...you might want to start here.

[Wisdom Seeker]

Could you point me to some of the titles with extensive Zhan Zhuang material.

Thank you

Loveligh

 

Hello,

I am aware of the practice of zhan zhuang within taichi chuan.

In books I have encountered references to wu chi stance, great circle stance (taichi stance, hugging the tree), and on guard stances( cat stance.).

I have also seen a description of using the individual positions in the forms as stances (such as white crane spreads wings or single whip).

 

I have read "Chi Kung the Way of Power" by Lam Kam Chuen and it describes a standing stakes routine for Da Cheng Chuan. This seems effective, however I would appreciate some resources or advice on the practice of Zhan Zhuang within tai-chi.

Lovelight

Hello. I am new to learning tai chi myself (2 years), but in my own experience, it has proven effective to hold the postures for a length of time. Instead of flowing from one posture in to the next, hold each posture for several minutes. Not just the postures, but you can stop at any point along the path of the transition. Learn to explore every piece of the movement by not moving. It will help to advance your practice quickly. You may hear some disagree in this group, but this advice I am giving is only based off of my own personal experiences. If you are still set on learning Zhan Zhuang, http://www.Powerstanding.com has a great course on it. I have searched the internet and have not found too many video courses besides this one. It cover and repeats many basic principals (20+) and teaches a 7 posture form. (Of course, you can use the principals with your tai chi and other postures as well...it is what I do) It develops a terrific foundation. Many of the principals are used in other internal arts as well. Learning this method, you'll arm yourself with tools that you will be able to apply to almost any arts you choose. If you just want to focus on tai chi, use the holding posture methods I described earlier. Either option should do you some justice. I hope this helps!

Edited February 23, 2013 by Wisdom Seeker

[phore]

Thanks all.

I have encountered the concept of holding taichi postures before.

In "pathnotes of an American ninja master" Glenn Morris recommends static taichi postures held like yoga poses.

Lovelight

[GreytoWhite]

Aye, there wasn't much zhan zhuang in taijiquan until it left Chen village. Ding shi on the other hand has been a big part of deeper understanding of the body.

[RiverSnake]

My understanding is that standing meditation can be one of the best things for Tai Chi because it not only enables chi flow but allows us to sort through the spine and personal posture, unravel knots and continue to edit and refine are posture, weight distribution....etc Best of luck phore.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[phore]

http://www.yangfamilytaichi.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=437

 

Here is a link to a forum discussing this.

Apparently the yang family has students hold static taichi postures.

 

Also in regards to Wong Kiew Kit. He recommends a basic posture called the three circle stance, unless the student wants to pesue a deeper practice. Then he recommends the deeper horse stance and other postures.

 

I have ordered Waysun Liaos book.

 

Lovelight

[Friend]

Edited March 29, 2013 by Friend

[phore]

Thank you for clarifying the point concerning Wong Kiew Kits training methods.

In training in wongkks method after wuchi should one hold the taichi stance then horse stance?

In lam kam chuens book it recommends beginning with a high circle stance and slowly lower as ones training progresses. "Lower and longer"

On the subject of ding shi, is it used to build fajing? I have seen descriptions of the different stances transmitting different types of fajing in the "taichi classics" by Waysun Liao

[dwai]

Thank you for clarifying the point concerning Wong Kiew Kits training methods.

In training in wongkks method after wuchi should one hold the taichi stance then horse stance?

In lam kam chuens book it recommends beginning with a high circle stance and slowly lower as ones training progresses. "Lower and longer"

On the subject of ding shi, is it used to build fajing? I have seen descriptions of the different stances transmitting different types of fajing in the "taichi classics" by Waysun Liao

In the various single forms, we feel the energy flowing. For example in the Push form, we feel a wave rising from the ground up while one wave sinks down to the dan tien. It is simultaneous. The wave from the ground climbs up the legs, the back, splitting at the middle of the back and flows through the arms, into the fingers and palm and out.

 

Each form of tai chi has either one of the 8 energies (ie ward-off, roll-back, etc) or a combination of these thereof. And yes, my teacher's explanation of doing single form practice is that we break down the flow into it's basic framework and get it going first. Then we weave separate forms into one flowing long form. The true test is whether we can continue energy flow in the transitions between the single forms.

[phore]

Thank you dwai

I have tried the ding shi the past few days. It seems to have a positive effect.

I have been choosing a posture for its basic stance ( bow, weighted on one leg, or balanced on one leg). I will then hold the posture on one side then invert it, from right to left, and hold on the other side. (With exceptions, for example: instead of inverting ward off left, I will switch to ward off right.)

This seems effective standing exercises. I have also been holding them low for the purposes of Zhan zhuang training.

I am still using the great circle in a low horse stance, as well as wuchi and cross hands.

Love light

Tony

[dwai]

Thank you dwai

I have tried the ding shi the past few days. It seems to have a positive effect.

I have been choosing a posture for its basic stance ( bow, weighted on one leg, or balanced on one leg). I will then hold the posture on one side then invert it, from right to left, and hold on the other side. (With exceptions, for example: instead of inverting ward off left, I will switch to ward off right.)

This seems effective standing exercises. I have also been holding them low for the purposes of Zhan zhuang training.

I am still using the great circle in a low horse stance, as well as wuchi and cross hands.

Love light

Tony

 

Tony

 

It's best if you start with a medium frame and as you start getting more sung you will drop into lower stance/larger frame.

 

Progression in Taichi practice is medium to large to small frame. It might be counter productive to go to low stance at the start (I you've been doing this for a long time and you are already sung then it's okay).

 

My two cents worth...

 

Best

 

Dwai

[Mal]

For what it's worth as YMMV -

 

Juru 1 is "faster/more time efficient" than ZZ (as is Gtumo)

 

Allow orbit and 5 point breathing (especially the head) to happen/arise, the sensations should naturally strengthen over time.

 

The static posture used must be relaxed ie sung. A more difficult / demanding posture (as long as you can still while relax doing it) is more time efficient than a simple posture.

 

I enjoy short standing sessions (5~15 min, often after Juru 1) Static postures are not for me, my Sifu did not recommend them for me. BUT what you are drawn to is often what you need.

Good to see you around T.

<3

[PLB]

I have been doing the ding shi at least once a week for a while now. I don't have time for that as a daily practice.

I find that keeping a focus on the intent to open and close makes the transitions take the same time as the completed postures so I end up just doing the form very very slow.

Not a constant speed though. The rythym thing becomes more elusive.

This is just a personal observation. I should make it clear that this comes from experimentation. My teacher hasn't shown me ding shi.

But I don't think ding shi is the same sort of standing practice as taking a posture like single whip and hanging out there as long as one can support it by the principles.

That is good too.

[phore]

Thanks guys.

I was holding a medium horse stance for over 20minutes without too much difficulty.

I began practicing the lower horse stance and then added some additional postures. For the most part I practice remaining relaxed but firm(sung).

 

Thank you Mal

I begin by practicing the KAP qigong 1&2. Then the first jury.

I open with wuchi then the stances& ding shi. I also use the lifting water and snake creeps through grass as moving qigong.

I will then proceed with with KAP qigong 3&4 (orbits).

Then I will do my taichi form.

Afterwards I will close down.

I have been doing gtummo during seated meditation.

 

After about a week of this combination I feel phenomonal.

I have noticed significant improvements in my taichi forms.

 

Love light

Tony

[Mal]

Sounds like a great combination, keep having fun

 

[Alchemistgeorge]

OK this is humor, when I saw it I thought of Zhan Zhuang and this discussion.

 

Dilbert's take on Zhan Zhuang <joke>

 

"The topic isn't as complicated as you might think" seems sort of Taoist, don't you think?

[phore]

Actually Dilberts author Scott Adams book " the Dilbert Future" was what first introduced metaphysics to me when I was 11. He has a chapter which discusses some basic components of quantum theory (Venetian bind pattern experiment, and Schrödinger's cat). It also discusses affirmations and the law of attraction.

 

Is anyone familiar with Dr. Yang Jwing-Mings books concerning taichi chuan. I've read a few of his other books and found them very accurate and detailed.

 

Love light

Tony

Edited March 2, 2013 by phore

[dwai]

Actually Dilberts author Scott Adams book " the Dilbert Future" was what first introduced metaphysics to me when I was 11. He has a chapter which discusses some basic components of quantum theory (Venetian bind pattern experiment, and Schrödinger's cat). It also discusses affirmations and the law of attraction.

 

Is anyone familiar with Dr. Yang Jwing-Mings books concerning taichi chuan. I've read a few of his other books and found them very accurate and detailed.

 

Love light

Tony

I have read one book by Dr. Yang and I'm not very impressed. There is a lot of theory but not much of practical value. I prefer Master Liao's book "The Tai Chi Classics" for practical advice on both theory as well esoterica in Tai Chi practice, BK Frantzis' books "Opening the Energy Gates and the two-volume series on Outer and inner dissolving" for working with channels etc.

 

But this is my personal opinion. If you ask me nothing can replace a good teacher, asking questions and getting answers from someone who has already walked the path.

[taijistudent]

Thanks guys.

I was holding a medium horse stance for over 20minutes without too much difficulty.

I began practicing the lower horse stance and then added some additional postures. For the most part I practice remaining relaxed but firm(sung).

 

Thank you Mal

I begin by practicing the KAP qigong 1&2. Then the first jury.

I open with wuchi then the stances& ding shi. I also use the lifting water and snake creeps through grass as moving qigong.

I will then proceed with with KAP qigong 3&4 (orbits).

Then I will do my taichi form.

Afterwards I will close down.

I have been doing gtummo during seated meditation.

 

After about a week of this combination I feel phenomonal.

I have noticed significant improvements in my taichi forms.

 

Love light

Tony

With practice such as yours one learns to be very rooted. Each posture can develop a different type of rooted feeling while at the same time providing some variety. When I practice, I imagine my whole body breathing through every pore thereby filling myself like a balloon.