What is the point

[WillingToListen]

What point is there to not harming others?

 

Why not kill whomever you'd like?

 

What is the point of doing good acts?

 

 

 

What is the point of finding emptiness or reaching nirvana if you're still trapped in a mortal shell and are forced to live amongst suffering/unhappiness until death does you part?

 

 

 

[Mal]

While I don't think the "point" = the "goal"

none the less

What is the point of finding emptiness or reaching nirvana

 

Having that sort of experience tends to change peoples perspective, often quite drastically.

vs

Trying to understand that sort of experience, without having had the experience.

 

 

exercise: try loving kindness meditation for 21 days (or perhaps even just 7) and IME you will/should "discover" the point

[Flolfolil]

you are crossing into territory i think about a lot

 

i don't believe in absolute morality. If killing someone doesn't make you feel regret or remorse at all then it is morally okay for you. i accept that there are some people in the world that this is their reality.

 

i don't believe you need to do good acts to redeem yourself. i don't believe in karma.

 

Add this to your list of questions - Why not just kill yourself right now for liberation? Other than assuming that an afterlife or reincarnation exists and fearing consequences. All of my current evidence points to suicide being the end of ones suffering

 

But somehow i don't want to do it, i want to continue suffering

 

i think people like suffering.

[WillingToListen]

I guess suicide isn't so bad, it's something im slowly working up to. I think with a month or two I should be able to just let go of life

[Flolfolil]

i support your decision, and not in some morbid or troll like way. If that is what you want to do then that is your path. Be happy

[WillingToListen]

Ive already spoken to one. He gave me a bunch of free seroquel and ambien and that closed up my crown pretty well. I know why i feel this way and i cant do anything to change my situation for a long time. My family is poor i cant afford to keep making them shell out money like this for help. ive been thinking of suicide off and on its nice to hear someone elses perspective on it.

 

the path has no place in american society.

[idiot_stimpy]

Ive already spoken to one. He gave me a bunch of free seroquel and ambien and that closed up my crown pretty well. I know why i feel this way and i cant do anything to change my situation for a long time. My family is poor i cant afford to keep making them shell out money like this for help. ive been thinking of suicide off and on its nice to hear someone elses perspective on it.

 

the path has no place in american society.

 

You have found a deep and dark place, and the reason you're there is due to believing in the thoughts that you think.

 

The point of finding emptiness or reaching nirvana is to cut off the root of suffering.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to not suffer anymore?

 

What is worth more to you, not suffering or being happy?

 

To seek happiness in material things is bound to create suffering for you.

[Jetsun]

What point is there to not harming others?

 

Why not kill whomever you'd like?

 

What is the point of doing good acts?

 

 

 

What is the point of finding emptiness or reaching nirvana if you're still trapped in a mortal shell and are forced to live amongst suffering/unhappiness until death does you part?

 

 

Whatever you do to others at some place deep in your psyche you will expect it to come back to you, which is why so many violent dictators become insecure and paranoid. So you don't harm others because you don't want your mind to enter into hell, because you want to be happy and not to suffer.

 

The point of doing good acts and being compassionate is that it makes you happy, so it is a form of intelligent selfishness. The point of finding nirvana is apparently to get off the circle of suffering.

[RiverSnake]

If reincarnation is correct then if you commit suicide you'll just be right back where you started in a similar situation having to learn the same lessons/teachings/problems. It's better to try and manifest a way out of our situation....why do you feel you can't do anything to change your situation?

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited February 23, 2013 by OldGreen

[C T]

Many years ago, i was also in a dark place. Very dark. Details are not important. What is, though, is how the situation resolved.

 

Prayer.

 

I am Buddhist by birth. Yet, the turning point for me was walking into a deserted old church one afternoon, not on purpose, i was just passing while out walking, aimlessly that time.

 

At once, the serenity held me, and i found myself kneeling, if anything, just due to mental exhaustion.

 

And boy, did i pray. Tears were streaming down my face, and i was sobbing like never before.

 

Suffice to say, when i emerged from that very transforming (longish) moment, it felt good. Reinvigorated would be the right description.

 

Of course, things were still pretty much the same, but what changed was the space inside of me. A self-induced transformation, one which arose due to a willingness to let in grace which dissolved every last bit of tormenting resistance inside.

 

This has nothing to do with beliefs. Its got everything to do with one's values, not moral values, but selfless ones. Selfless because one's focus can take on greater clarity when one is willing to measure one's intent in light of how one's actions can impact on others, especially one's family, and to a degree, one's friends and so on.

 

I am saying this based on a recent experience where a friend chose to end her life under quite tragic circumstances.

 

I strongly urge you to review your options, OP. There are never dead-ends in life -- only pathways which sometimes only require one to switch on one's inner light to see in the dimness of the moment.

 

Pain and joy are transient.

 

Look for that which lies beyond both. Trust me, that which transcends both is not found in premature ending of one's life.

 

I deeply wish you peace and equanimity, my friend.

[Birch]

The kundalini stuff is not all fun and flowers. The 'dark night' comes with. It's relatively well-documented.

It also passes. As well as physicians, there are volunteer organizations dealing with suicidal risk. Also community meetups and online support groups. I wouldn't say TTB'S is specialized in that issue, although there are a lot of members that have (in the time I've been here at least) dealt with similar feelings 'on path'. I'd encourage you to talk about this and for people who don't know what the feelings etc are to not speculate on any 'spiritual' rationale for doing it or not doing it.

 

As for society, none is set up for undoing conditioning. The irony (to me at least) is that some of our traditions in the West are supposed to offer an environment that fosters path, but we're not doing well with that at all.

[Fū Yue]

In your meditations, if you are determined, you will eventually be able to go wherever you feel like, fly through the air, et cetera. The buddha was not trapped in his 'mortal shell'. He could multiply himself, divide himself, transform, subdue gods and demons, control the elements, and was functionally immortal because he found and actualized nirvana. We can all cultivate to this level.

 

There is an antidote to all suffering. From the suffering of limitation to the suffering of mental anguish. Don't give up, there's a world of untold wonder out there that most have barely scratched the surface of.

[Vmarco]

What point is there to not harming others?

 

Why not kill whomever you'd like?

 

What is the point of doing good acts?

 

 

 

What is the point of finding emptiness or reaching nirvana if you're still trapped in a mortal shell and are forced to live amongst suffering/unhappiness until death does you part?

 

Question 1, 2, 3,....Lao Tzu said, "Who can enjoy enlightenment and remain indifferent to suffering in the world? This is not keeping with the Way?"

 

Question 4,...It is impossible to uncover a realization of Emptiness, if one feels trapped and forced to forced to live amongst unhappiness.

 

Keep in mind, as you struggle with the simplicity of waking up,...Nirvana is merely the flip-side of Samsara,...and just as impermanent. Buddha was Buddha, because he popped the whole alaya.

http://www.chronicleproject.com/stories_88.html

[Flolfolil]

for the record everyone, i don't think about suicide at all. It is a thought i -used- to have. i am merely offering my view on the topic

 

Noone can convince someone life is worth living but themself

[Vmarco]

guess suicide isn't so bad, it's something im slowly working up to. I think with a month or two I should be able to just let go of life

 

Before suicide,...I would concider this:

http://www.lobsangrampa.org/ebooks/I_Believe_-_T.Lobsang_Rampa.pdf

 

It may help with the shock after death. Nice story,...hate the title.

 

[Flolfolil]

what i read from the tibetan book of the dead kinda sounds like the whole "well if you kill yourself you will just be punished for it" type thing...

[Jetsun]

In my experience if I have very violent thoughts and images in my mind before I go to sleep I am likely to have a rough night, nightmares and wake up in a really bad mood. Similarly if I think pleasant things before going to sleep I have a better night and wake up in a good mood. The momentum or intention of my thoughts before going to sleep is the key factor, so it stands to reason that the momentum of my thoughts when I die may determine the experience I have when I die or even where I end up, which is why Buddhists advise doing all you can to avoid hatred and anger because if you die with that in mind it's momentum might take you straight to the hell realms.

 

So by that reasoning killing yourself is not likely to bring an end to your suffering, rather it is likely to make you suffer a great deal more if the intention behind it is violent and angry then that intention is going to determine the nature of your latter experience, as without the human body you may no longer have much will directing your consciousness, unless you have done a lot of spiritual work to be able to navigate these realms and remain calm in the face of them.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Jetsun

[Rishi Das]

There is no point.

 

Who are you?

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

personally, after reading a few posts, i just want to say:


I hate people who fear suicide, death, or think that life is so scared that death, especially self inflicted, is somehow "wrong" "amoral" or "sinful".



Okay, hate is a strong word... but not strong enough...

[Vmarco]

personally, after reading a few posts, i just want to say:

 

 

I hate people who fear suicide, death, or think that life is so scared that death, especially self inflicted, is somehow "wrong" "amoral" or "sinful".

 

 

 

Okay, hate is a strong word... but not strong enough...

 

Some people like jumping into lake,...others prefer to wade in. Some feel they have no choice by to jump,...letting their sentience drive the situation.

 

About 800 years ago, Naropa said, According to the Tantric tradition, everyone experiences the Clear Light of the Void shortly after death. Its brilliance, however, is so overwhelming that the departing consciousness usually recoils in fear and is drawn instead into another samsaric rebirth. By learning to recognize the transcendent Light during his lifetime, an adept may return to it without difficulty when the shock of death threatens to disorient him. That would be a good example of sizing up the lake before going in.

 

If one has a honest understanding that their suicide could take them to a better place,...good decision. If not,...and they submit to samsara's neurosis, best of luck,...as in the story of Algernon above (and here), best wishes on your journey:

 

http://www.lobsangrampa.org/ebooks/I_Believe_-_T.Lobsang_Rampa.pdf

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

i much prefer knowing what i am getting myself into BEFORE i jump in, instead of finding out AFTERWARD that it's actually highly acidic or of sub-zero temperatures...


Sadly, the united states is apparently designed to prevent fore-knowledge and fore-knowing... thus i fight.

[SEEKER OF TRUTH]

Ok, if you really, really, really want the solution, then you will have to reach for it. But until that time comes, then nothing will ever change. You have to be willing to change, then you have to move in that direction quickly - seize the moment of change and flow with it. Moving in a direction, really cuts into your sitting around, thinking time, but there will be lots of time for that later, so don't worry.

 

Being self supporting through your own contributions, is an integral part of existing in our society today and is essential to self worth. If you live a simple, uncomplicated life, then you don't need much to get by, any old minimum wage job will do, to start, then figure out a way to be of service, which will give you more purpose in life. There is something magic that happens when you help others, so don't miss out on that.

 

I wrote this many years ago, when I was stuck:

 

There is this person, that I'm supposed to be and this person that I've always been and a thousand miles of distance stands in between them.

 

With such a daunting distance, it's no wonder that I've never begun, but it's clear to me now, that the fear of the how, or maybe just the not knowing, has kept me stuck, deep in this rut, and not let me go, where I'm going.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

*unlike* on the "jump in without caution" suggestion that i am distilling from your post. perhaps im doing it wrong and you dont mean to say that. but i dont like it.


Being self supporting may seem integral, but all opportunities leading up to a collective whole of "self supporters" is combatted by the societal expectations of compliance toward co-dependency instead of interdependent cooperation.


I will continue being the change i want to see in the world; as much as i try to make the right example, i will continue to be ignored by society.

[SEEKER OF TRUTH]

*unlike* on the "jump in without caution" suggestion that i am distilling from your post. perhaps im doing it wrong and you dont mean to say that. but i dont like it.

 

 

Being self supporting may seem integral, but all opportunities leading up to a collective whole of "self supporters" is combatted by the societal expectations of compliance toward co-dependency instead of interdependent cooperation.

 

 

I will continue being the change i want to see in the world; as much as i try to make the right example, i will continue to be ignored by society.

Lofty words and esoteric principals are better contemplated on, a full stomach, someplace warm and dry.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Can't tell if your statement is ironic...


Or


If you are full, and in someplace warm and dry.