What is the point

[SEEKER OF TRUTH]

Can't tell if your statement is ironic...

 

 

Or

 

 

If you are full, and in someplace warm and dry.

Food and shelter are our first concerns. You can't eat words and principals won't keep the rain out.

 

Being self supporting not only takes care of the the first two concerns, but also takes care of self worth, which mooching off of others does not do.

 

Being of service, not only increases self worth, but builds character and self confidence. Then, one can start to contemplate the cosmos and not have to worry about where the next meal is coming from and whether or not they should kill themselves, or others, because of low or no self-worth.

[oildrops]

You are a human being. Contemplate that, accept it, and let it sink in.

 

Whether you realize it or not, or whether you want to admit it or not, there is love energy in this world for you. Embrace it. Only selfishness can overshadow that.

 

As far as being an American, you can do whatever you want here. The society is very sick, but you'll learn to create your own communities.

Edited February 23, 2013 by oildrops

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Food and shelter are our first concerns. You can't eat words and principals won't keep the rain out.

 

Being self supporting not only takes care of the the first two concerns, but also takes care of self worth, which mooching off of others does not do.

 

Being of service, not only increases self worth, but builds character and self confidence. Then, one can start to contemplate the cosmos and not have to worry about where the next meal is coming from and whether or not they should kill themselves, or others, because of low or no self-worth.

 

 

IT IS LITERALLY, LITERALLY, IMPOSSIBLE TO BE SELF SUPPORTING IN A COUNTRY THAT BELIEVES IT "OWNS" LAND AREAS!!!

 

 

I could establish my self-sufficiency anywhere in this country and be attacked by its government or businesses for doing so if i ever got caught, which is in direct opposition of interdependency and relatedness.

 

If i knew an action i could take that would successfully eradicate my obstacles, why would i be here contemplating an answer?

 

 

 

Edit: added "or businesses"

Edited February 23, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[SEEKER OF TRUTH]

 

 

IT IS LITERALLY, LITERALLY, IMPOSSIBLE TO BE SELF SUPPORTING IN A COUNTRY THAT BELIEVES IT "OWNS" LAND AREAS!!!

 

 

I could establish my self-sufficiency anywhere in this country and be attacked by its government or businesses for doing so if i ever got caught, which is in direct opposition of interdependency and relatedness.

 

If i knew an action i could take that would successfully eradicate my obstacles, why would i be here contemplating an answer?

 

 

 

Edit: added "or businesses"

What I mean by self supporting is earning your own money from a job and paying your own bills. Most of the world isn't like ancient China anymore, where you could go beg a bowl of rice and still be respected for being a monk and having all your lofty principals to live by.

 

Fighting a broken system is easier to do, when you have food, shelter and a little money in your pocket. Lot's of people have gone before you, done and spoke what you speak of, but the ones that survived to fight another day, ended up getting a job. The rest are either trust fund babies, homeless, dead, or in institutions. The wisest one, is the one that can learn from other peoples mistakes.

Edited February 23, 2013 by SEEKER OF TRUTH

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Success in fighting a broken system means the willingness to die for your fight... to never give in and conform.


Everyone who has a job, pays taxes, or in any form contributes to the established control is guilty, regardless of weather they agree with it or seek to combat it.


If your efforts are to combat a broken system, then getting a job, paying your bills and taxes, and generally participating in the system means you have already failed.

You cant beat the system from within the system.

And so far, i cannot discern a route "out" of the system, least of all as a singular person.


Thus i seek like-minded people through which we can organize an established place for a proper example of life, society, civilization, and technology.

Civilization, society, and nationality exist expressly to prevent individuals from setting the correct example for others to learn from.

Without the proper example, there can be no hope for the human species.

[SEEKER OF TRUTH]

Is that so? I'm routing for you.

Edited February 23, 2013 by SEEKER OF TRUTH

[WillingToListen]

SEEKER OF TRUTH and oildrops, thank you very much for your contributions- you both have an idea of where I'm coming from.

 

I'm not seeking to combat any system that's in place, it simply goes against what i feel in my heart.

 

 

Being as isolated as I am currently I do need to establish community. And I'm also unemployed so getting a job is also a priority.

 

 

It's extremely overwhelming on this path sometimes, not having a guru or "elder" to look to for advice. There are users on this forum who have seen me through very dark times, thank you all.

 

Just when I thought I was "done" with my k experience harhar

[Mal]

Just when I thought I was "done" with my k experience harhar

 

Life is constant change

 

Loving kindness

1. Start with by directing love and kindness towards yourself

2. Next direct love and kindness towards towards someone you feel thankful for or someone who has helped you.

3. Now direct love and kindness towards someone you feel neutral about.

4. Direct love and kindness towards people you don't like or who you are having a hard time with.

5. Finally direct love and kindness towards towards everyone universally.

 

 

Loving-kindness meditation does far more than produce momentary good feelings. Over a nine week period, research showed that this type of meditation increased people's experiences of positive emotions. (If you are working on improving your ratio of positive to negative emotions, start with metta!) The research shows compellingly that it actually puts people on "trajectories of growth," leaving them better able to ward off depression and "become ever more satisfied with life." This is probably because it increases a wide range of those resources that make for a meaningful and successful life, like having an increased sense of purpose, stronger social support, and less illness. Research even shows that loving-kindness meditation "changes the way people approach life" for the better.

 

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/raising_happiness/post/better_than_sex_and_appropriate_for_kids

 

When I feel issues are more "K related" I find the 4 chi sets from KAP highly effective in earthing/rooting excessive energetics ... but loving kindness is "free" and EXTREMELY beneficial

(as the link said "better than sex and appropriate for kids")

[oildrops]

Sorry to hear you are having a rough time. I have gone down the existential pipe a few times before, it's not very much fun, but you will grow from it. Try doing some volunteer work if you are not getting out of the house enough.

[Sanzon]

Hey WillingToListen, chin up mate, this will pass. Flolfolil & Northern Avid Judo Ant, you might try offering a fellow Bum a hand and ask him what troubles him so much that he would be in suicide ideation, and see if there is anything you may do to or say to lift his spirits before jumping in and saying you support his "decision", don’t you think?

 

For what it is worth, I will share my experiences of death and suicide from my journey with you, if it is pertinent. I am not anything but an average guy, no Master here. I get up out of bed grumpy and have bad breath until I brush my teeth & freshen up. I hope you may gain a bit of insight from me, if that’s not the case, just know I am wishing you well to get through this hard time.

 

I have lost two friends to suicide. Both were due to the effects of various drugs and the destabilising effect they had on their lives. I have an extended family member who put a shotgun in his mouth and blew half his face off, lived, mended his life, got married, had a few wonderful children. The first guy had a family already. The second didn’t get to experience that. The third was a testament that no matter how dark things get, there can be a future you may not have been able to envisage while suffering.

 

I have previously shared my own experiences with facing my own perceived death via precognition with you. What I didn’t share was what came out of that experience. As I surrendered myself fully to my perceived fate, my perception shifted to allow me into a deeper state of awareness of the world around me. Life’s preoccupations fell by the wayside, and I started witnessing things of immense beauty. Personally, I was grief stricken and withdrawn, but I started noticing the magnificence of how the sun reflected & shimmered off each & every leaf on every tree, they each had their own radiance, life-force and vibration. Each of them could talk to me, & I to them. The trees themselves hummed with energy and intelligence. I felt like I was living in a magical musical, to be humorous about it, but no one else was aware that each living thing was singing. It filled me. It was joyous. I was not connecting to them from my world, I was living in their world now. I will talk more in person about this if you care to. The end of the story was that I bargained my way out of that predicament. I wanted to live, I pleaded my case, and things changed for the better for me.

 

I married a radiant woman, though we are now separated. She is a well accomplished yogi & shaman, respected by a lot of respectable people. She earnt her power from facing death and trauma, taking up responsibility, from softening & strengthening her heart, and coming out the other side of her experiences of facing death with compassion for herself and for others. She is mostly thoughtful, calm, open & receptive, but she also has the energy of a dragonslayer. She is very motivated in social justice issues and uses that energy to defend women who need it. She has a history of being the subject of violence, and has had ideations of suicide since she was 16, and had to come to terms with their relevance to her. It has been hard for her not to act on them at times, and thus she has had to suffer them, and learn detachment to then witness them from an emotional distance, in order to gain insight & understanding. What is necessary for her to remain grounded, is to be interested in other people and their plights, have close meaningful friendships, to be engaged and active in the community at the level she wishes to contribute towards, and to have a supportive environment around her. They are a simple check list of what contributes to mostly everybody’s sense of wellbeing. Nothing extravagant, just simple & effective. She also needs a sense of duty and purpose, challenges, and accomplishment which lead to her own sense of fulfilment. Again, nothing groundbreaking.

 

These are the basics that seem relevent to you, and right now you are going through a turbulent and transformative period in your life. My thoughts are with you. Do your best to address these with short term goals for the moment, practice patience, and develop a commitment to journeying to better times, and longer term goals as your direction gets re-established. May I suggest you write down some points on a few of these areas that you would like to make ground on, and start developing a strategy. Again, I say if this doesn’t resonate with you, take it all with a pinch of salt ok.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Sanzon

[3bob]

The blunt and basic math :

 

One can not feed a demon without also becoming its meal. Btw, its a very difficult, horrific and painful crawl out of the demons belly to get back to what could be called a workable and wonderful "normal" state in comparison... even for those who don't believe in such non-sense.

 

Sorry, but not really since there is no way to make such fuzzy or palatable.

 

I do see something like advanced & terminal cancer as the only reason for taking a non-violent (as possible) and above-board-course to get one's personal affairs and responsibilities in as much order as one's ability allows before saying goodbye, otherwise one is one breaking with the laws of the lifeforce.

Edited February 24, 2013 by 3bob

[Flolfolil]

No sanzon, i don't think that. You think that

 

Just keeping the balance here

 

i'm not saying that they should do it, i am merely saying that it doesn't matter if they die, or i die, or you die, or anybody dies. It is just death. World aint gunna stop turning

 

For the record i have said the same thing to my partner when he wanted to kill himself, and me not grasping was the one thing that made him not want to do it in the end. He stopped saying he wanted to kill himself after that.

[WillingToListen]

For the record i have said the same thing to my partner when he wanted to kill himself

but

 

[Seth Ananda]

Feeling bad now doesn't mean feeling bad for the rest of ones life - unless you kill yourself

[Flolfolil]

okay, well i guess i'll just leave you alone.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Flolfolil

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

but

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm just here to relate when and where i can, and hope that others can relate to me from time to time.

 

 

 

I can relate to those who have felt suicidal, and i know what it is like. not something that has a correct "answer", so i will let it run its course for others as i had done for myself.

 

 

Yes, one time i needed someone to remind me not to hurt myself, but i was also looking for them, at that time.

 

 

 

 

Edit: added "at that time"

Edited February 24, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[Sanzon]

[Vmarco]

 

Caterpillars often philosophize about Butterflies. "... but at the end of the day you're either a caterpillar or a butterfly, and the only way anyone will ever have even the slightest sense of what it means to be a butterfly is to become one. There are no butterfly experts among the caterpillars, despite innumerable claims to the contrary" Jed McKenna

 

You will find though that if you meet a butterfly, they will not fit any of the preconceptions that many people have about them.

　

To become a butterfly,...all that is a caterpillar,...all beliefs, hopes, dreams,...must die.

 

It is amazing how caterpillars attempt to define what a butterfly is,...as if one can become the other,...or even imagine such. But yet, we live in a world where butterflies are defined by caterpillars. The truth of butterflies is this,...they are awake,...and do not untransform back to caterpillars.

For many, real butterflies are caterpillars arch enemy,...for the butterfly exists beyond the dream of beliefs. To be a butterfly, everything caterpillar must die. You cannot bring your caterpillarness along,...just as one cannot bring beliefs into the heart of essence.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Vmarco

[timelessness]

About a year ago, I was looking for 'easy' methods to commit suicide on the internet. I was in a desperate situation, went through humiliating and embarrassing situations, lost my job and most of the friends. I didn't know what I was doing, what I had done, and what I should do. I was suicidal and I wanted to kill myself and get away from the situation. But I am here... alive. Had I killed myself, I wouldn't have been here typing this. Think about it. If you kill yourself, you won't BE.

 

Think about it man... your mother, father, brothers, and sisters would be devastated to hear that YOU committed suicide.

 

Try to do things that make you think that you are useful. Clean your house, do something for your family members, tell them you are looking for a job, they will help you. Its all good dawg... time will pass, live to see another day... sun will shine tomorrow, clouds will slowly move away.

Edited February 26, 2013 by timelessness

[timelessness]

By the way, the United States of America is one of most beautiful countries in the world. I wish I was a citizen. One of the most freest as well. You can basically do anything you want. Almost, within some limits.

[Vmarco]

By the way, the United States of America is one of most beautiful countries in the world. I wish I was a citizen. One of the most freest as well. You can basically do anything you want. Almost, within some limits.

 

 

Beauty is in subjectiveness of the beholder.

 

"My government is the world's leading purveyor of violence." Martin Luther King

 

The USA has the largest prison system in the world.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

 

More than half of all U.S. prisoners have been incarcerated for nonviolent offenses. Most are first-time offenders, usually people who possessed small quantities of marijuana or conscious altering psychotropic substances. Many get "punked out" and sold into slavery as sex partners for the duration of their often lengthy imprisonments. What kind of hateful society does such a thing to people for minor, victimless crimes?

 

　

"As long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free." Eugene V. Debs

 

Ponder on this,....Although polls, such as the American Religious Identification Survey, suggest that 14% of the American population are Atheist/Freethinkers, US prisons house only 0.2% Atheists. 91.1% of US prisoners are Judeo-Islamo-Christians, of which 79.76% Christians. That leaves only 8.7% for all other religions (Hindi's, Buddhists, Wiccans, Scientologists, Rasta, American Indian, Sikhs, etc

[hydrogen]

For many, real butterflies are caterpillars arch enemy,...for the butterfly exists beyond the dream of beliefs. To be a butterfly, everything caterpillar must die. You cannot bring your caterpillarness along,...just as one cannot bring beliefs into the heart of essence.

 

I should have known better than engaging a mindless conversation. But I just couldn't resist the faulty logic anymore.

 

If a caterpillar has no faith and kills himself, he can't become a butterfly.

 

If a caterpillar has no fatih and thinks nothing he does matters, he doesn't store enough energy, he'd die in the cocoon. He can't become a butterfly.

 

To be a beautiful butterfly, a caterpillar must have faith and try to be the best caterpillar as he can.

 

Without caterpillarness, there is no butterfly.

 

Why do you constantly repeating Jed McKenna? Because you believe him. That's called belief.

[Vmarco]

I should have known better than engaging a mindless conversation. But I just couldn't resist the faulty logic anymore.

 

If a caterpillar has no faith and kills himself, he can't become a butterfly.

 

If a caterpillar has no fatih and thinks nothing he does matters, he doesn't store enough energy, he'd die in the cocoon. He can't become a butterfly.

 

To be a beautiful butterfly, a caterpillar must have faith and try to be the best caterpillar as he can.

 

Without caterpillarness, there is no butterfly.

 

Why do you constantly repeating Jed McKenna? Because you believe him. That's called belief.

 

Maybe mindless to you,...but a most important dialogue for those with a serious penchant for truth.

 

In Eastern Thought (so to keep in impersonal, as my posts often attempt to do), one must be a caterpiller to realize the butterfly. Not all caterpillars become butterflies,...and is especially doubtful if suicide caterpillers ever become butterflies.

 

In Eastern Thought, the awakened state is only by way of the phenomenal being,...which is to say, that no one wakes up while dead, or while attached to phenomenal beingness.

 

If Buddha, instead of being the Buddha, became the best Siddhartha he could be, he would have never become the Buddha.

 

Out of courtesy, I typically use the names of people quoted. I very much enjoy using quotes,...most because they irritate non-serious seekers. When a quote is used, it nearly always, has absolutely nothing to do with the people who is credited with the quote. For example, IMO, T. S. Eliot was an abomination upon humanity,...however, I'll use his quotes if they apply to the context of my post.

 

"Human kind cannot bear very much reality" T. S. Eliot

[Mokona]

Beauty is in subjectiveness of the beholder.

 

"My government is the world's leading purveyor of violence." Martin Luther King

 

The USA has the largest prison system in the world.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

 

More than half of all U.S. prisoners have been incarcerated for nonviolent offenses. Most are first-time offenders, usually people who possessed small quantities of marijuana or conscious altering psychotropic substances. Many get "punked out" and sold into slavery as sex partners for the duration of their often lengthy imprisonments. What kind of hateful society does such a thing to people for minor, victimless crimes?

 

　

"As long as there is a soul in prison, I am not free." Eugene V. Debs

 

Ponder on this,....Although polls, such as the American Religious Identification Survey, suggest that 14% of the American population are Atheist/Freethinkers, US prisons house only 0.2% Atheists. 91.1% of US prisoners are Judeo-Islamo-Christians, of which 79.76% Christians. That leaves only 8.7% for all other religions (Hindi's, Buddhists, Wiccans, Scientologists, Rasta, American Indian, Sikhs, etc

Hehe,

 

Your such a downer, V! :-D

[Vmarco]

Hehe,

 

Your such a downer, V! :-D

 

On the contrary,...it's an upper! It's seeing the false as the false,...which is the stepping stone to waking up.

 

"we need to draw our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for that is how the false perpetuates itself" Eckhart Tolle