Horse stance

[Wizz]

Anatomy may not be an issue for a powerful monk because he already know how to manipulate with power, he can use the power of his chi to perform extraordinary feats as standing on one finger alone with the help of his chi - not his physical strength, he can heal with his chi any part of his body with rapid speed etc. But to be able to handle power you need to do things correctly be disciplined and this takes time, it doesn't happen overnight and every shaolin monk has a teacher that corrects their postures in the beginning of their practice. A powerful shaolin monk can stand all day in horse stance with the power of his chi. I personally love horse stance and I feel great afterwards because my legs are so energized but I don't have the healing power of physical like chi that a powerful shaolin monk has and nobody corrected my posture so its very easy to make a mistake and ruin your knees. This counts for lotus as monks do lotus as well but for people that can only do 10 minutes postures well guys you can have as many chidragons as you want congratulating you on your big success but that just means you are still a beginner and beginner can harm themselves if they don't have someone to tell them how one should perform the stance. Checking the anatomy is a reasonable thing because you can't just trust everyone either.

 

Important thing about horse stance is how you hold your feet because this determines on which part of your knee the pressure is exerted and if its just on one side of the meniscus it will get damaged. On this angle on the photo feet seem straight forward and this is wrong. People that have problems with patela and knee cartilage and do horse stance they will most likely position their feet that promotes meniscus tear because this way they don't feel cartilage pain. Also whats important is to be able to do splits because every shaolin monk learns to do splits as well so they totally have open hips and this again works together with the feet and relates with the knee and pressure there. So anatomy is important if you get me. If you just do horse stance without practicing splits and you think the key of success is going lower and lower you are just copying someone you saw do something and are doing things half way. Horse stance is all about energy, opening all channels so you can work with real chi and not some physical exercise where you can measure yourself up with others.

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I've been doing 7 mins daily at around 100°, that 12 mins 90° was a real anomaly. I should have made clearer that normally I don't go that low or long. It'll be a while before I can do that sort of thing regularly.

 

Anyway, hand/arm position alteration. Now I'm doing it like this:

Apparently has more whole body effect than the dan tien focus of having fists by dan tien.

[ChiDragon]

Apparently has more whole body effect than the dan tien focus of having fists by dan tien.

I would say that is only a misconception. You have to focus on the dan tien, in order, to have the whole body effect. Otherwise, they wouldn't say "Chi sink to the dan tien(氣沉丹田)" for nothing. The phrase is above all; no one can defy it.

[silent thunder]

I'm starting to love horse stance.

Or more honestly, I'm loving the effects in the moments right after standing up out of horse stance when I'm done. Ha!

 

Horse stance is used in the second Wu Dang form I use daily.

 

About 2/3 through the form, we choose a target in the room, drop into horse stance and aim sword fingers at the target.

Dragon fire is then channeled to the target along the yang lines until tired. Briefly stand up, relieving the tension, take a breath and then go back into horse and channel the fire. This is repeated once more and after the cycle, stand back up in neutral stance and relax for one minute.

 

I find the energy circulation that takes place in the calm after horse to be extraordinary.

Generally these days, my MDT lights up on and off during practice and hums with a magnetic pulse.

But not every day, nor every form elicits this, except for horse.

Within moments of engaging the fire in horse stance, my mdt charges up and resonates.

[allinone]

im sure that anyone has said it before but.

 

After you are very tired from running or walking, horse stance is usually taken naturally(not perfect). It feels good. After a while it loses its effect, so i can just stand or sit and then continue walking.

This is same with when i am cold then i take baby position or whatever its called, naturally.

 

Thinking why its good to stay in horse stance when its not feeling good anymore, also i don't understand why its so important to be able to sit fulllotus?

 

Its like listening to music, it does not make me a singer. Samely i can do neikung for years but if i do it like listening music nothing will happen even if doing it fifty years.

 

Im sure that sitting motionless is for realizing the mind wanting to move here and there and thats it, after that my focus is on that mind and position is not important anymore.

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

Hm.. yes... yesm, hmm. my horse stance needs work, but is getting better!

[soaring crane]

Just flipped through the thread and saw ppl asking about balls (yongchuan) vs heels. Yongchuan is the springboard for motion. When you stand with more weight on the balls of the feet, you find yourself in a permanent yang ready state.

 

Test it by monitoring how you breathe. Stand weighted on the heels for a while a then shift weight to the balls. You'll feel yourself rise and your breathing impulse will move higher, too.

 

Not a good situation for almost all of us, and only good some of the time for serious martial arts practitioners.

[Marblehead]

I'm glad you clarified which balls we were standing on. I wouldn't be able to stand on my other ones and I surely wouldn't want anyone else standing on them.

 

When one does the "kimchi squat" nearly all the weight is on the heels. The rest of the foot is only for balance.

 

And yes, I agree with the yin (heels) yang (balls) idea.

[joeblast]

 

funny how the horse stance makes for a jacked tensor fasciae latae, mine are like twice the size or more as when I first started doing horse stance.

 

keep that lumbosacral junction at right angles to the ground....and make a breathing exercise out of this...

[soaring crane]

Was thinking about this last night ... what I thought was that, for most people, Wuji stance with a small variety of standard hand positions would result in more positive development and quicker. I suspect people are naturally attracted to the most outwardly impressive-appearing and challenging practices and then they jump over a whole host of base-building work, leaving them less than optimally prepared for the big one, so to speak.

 

Wuxing:

 

 

Dragon:

 

 

Mabu:

 

Edited June 6, 2014 by soaring crane

[joeblast]

absolutely, wuji stance is a prereq!

[niveQ]

As I research, I find many different instructions for horse stance. Is there a simple way of explaining the posture?

 

If my thighs are parallel, my feet are parallel and my back is straight, am I doing this correctly?

Edited September 6, 2014 by niveQ

[Daeluin]

I'd avoid letting the knees go past the toes. Feet parallel to each other, thighs approaching parallel to the earth, feet approximately shoulder width apart but proportional to body as well - I'm fairly tall and need to go wider.

 

The feet and knees are relaxed, receptive like hexagram 2, the balls of the feet are hooked into the earth and the heel is relaxed, allowing the qi to travel up the achilles tendon and allowing the posture to support itself by this up-flow of energy rather than forcing it with strength - it will take time - learn to relax into the posture.

 

From Nei Gong: The Authentic Classic:

 

 

The Head Must be Straight and Uplifted, the Shoulders Level and Aligned, the Chest Issued Out Yet Restrained.

 

Uplifting the head strengthens the spirit which manifests in the face, while leveling and aligning the shoulders enlivens the force in the shoulder blades. Issuing out the chest increases the power of the whole body. These are the upper body patterns. For the head to be upright the nape and neck must be lifted. The shoulders must be held upright and smooth in all dimensions and cannot be askew or angled. Although the chest is pushed forth, the intention must be that it is constrained or pulled in. These patterns are the true key and must be ascertained.

 

...

 

Pressing Down the Shoulders Refines the Stance-Steps, Squeezing the Kua Firms the Knees; Rounding the Groin Firms the Kua; Uplifting the Chest Lowers the Yao.

 

This is the true key to lowering the stance-steps. Everyone knows to refine the steps but they do not know that the key to doing so is to press down the shoulders. To do so means to gather Jin (internal power/strength) from Jianjing (GB 21) and make it sink down to Yongquan (KID 1). They know to strengthen the knees, but they do not know that the key to doing so is to squeeze the Kua and hold the two buttocks as tightly as possible. Everyone knows to strengthen the Kua but they are unaware of keeping the groin round while striving to keep the force moving outward horizontally. Everyone knows to lower the Yao (lumbus, the small of the back) but not that the key to doing so is to strongly life the chest.

 

This book is full of stuff like this. Excellent resource on stance posture.

[soaring crane]

As I research, I find many different instructions for horse stance. Is there a simple way of explaining the posture?

 

If my thighs are parallel, my feet are parallel and my back is straight, am I doing this correctly?

 

 

Not even close, I'm afraid. There's a lot more to doing it correctly than assuming a strenuous stance and gritting your teeth till you collapse (not saying that this is what you're doing, but it's what many, many practitioners think of as Ma Bu).

 

Can you stand in Wuji now? Wuji is actually a Ma Bu (horse stance), too. It's just a skinny horse. The deep mabu (fat horse version) is a progression of the higher stance. The Wuji stance gets overlooked in forums (because it looks like boring old-people qigong?) but it's far, far more effective for most of us, imo.

 

edit: good post by Daeluin up there ^^

[PLB]

Lots of interesting points being made here.

One aspect that hasn't been touched upon specifically is the matter of taking steps.

A wide horse stance is great for opening up the kwa, relaxing the knees (if done properly) and revealing all the subtle angles of feet and ankles.

But you are trapped in that position if you cannot shift your weight to one leg or another. The moment you try to escape the trap, you are doing tai chi chuan; Or using a prop or cane to help you stand up again.

The first method is better.

[juliank]

I started doing the horse stance, and I agree with everyone's posts.

Amazing effects both internal and external. I can get used to this

 

Are there any videos from the web that are good for a beginner. 

I have been using this one for my main reference. Thoughts ?

 

[soaring crane]

I started doing the horse stance, and I agree with everyone's posts.

Amazing effects both internal and external. I can get used to this

 

Are there any videos from the web that are good for a beginner. 

I have been using this one for my main reference. Thoughts ?

 

Can you do those exercises? That's wushu, baby.

 

I have never seen a good "beginner" video for wide horse stance, possibly because it isn't a beginner practice?

[Marblehead]

I can't even do a decent horse stance any more.  I can go down into the position fine but then I just keep on going down, and down, and down until my butt is on the floor.  And it's not fun getting back up.

[soaring crane]

Keeping the butt up is one of the challenges yes

[voidisyinyang]

My qigong friend here said that Gary Clyman said to just go lower if you can't hold the stance and that's fine. It makes sense since when you raise up again that is what works the glute muscles.

 

Also the Dr. Lin Taoist sex dude says the glute flexing is the secret to get the energy up the spine.

 

So - as long as you go until the legs are shaking and that will kick your nervous system to the opposite extreme of parasympathetic relaxation - the serotonin burst - clears out the bowels but also is the kundalini energy up the spine.

[soaring crane]

My qigong friend here said that Gary Clyman said to just go lower if you can't hold the stance and that's fine.

 

that's a good way to test the condition of your knees, and about the worst possible advice anyone could give regarding ma bu.

 

Don't let the butt sink below knee level. Anyone can go into a wide-stance, butt on the ground posture and stay there all day. Aside from stretching the groin, it provides no benefit, physically or energetically. Keeping the butt at knee level, or above, provides an automatic limiter to the exercise; it's virtually impossible to overdo because your thighs will give out long before your knees are in the danger zone. If you then compensate by allowing the butt to sink, you'll acheive the illusion of perfoming the exercise on a higher level than you really are, and your knees won't take much of that.

 

If this link works you'll a bunch of thumbnails of images of horse stance. There are a lot of variations but you won't see any butts below the knees.

[Nungali]

Why all the punching to the front when in a horse stance ?

 

Unless its just 'exercise' and has no 'application' value ?

 

 

 

 

Here is one way to keep the butt higher than the knees ! 

 

 

speaking of application value ..... I like this article ... its quiet close to what I think about applications (at least in karate ) . 

 

http://www.karatebyjesse.com/7-reasons-why-your-bunkai-probably-sucks/

Edited April 4, 2015 by Nungali

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.shaolin.org/general-2/horse-stance.html

[voidisyinyang]

that link has amazing advice!

 

the internal force section is great.

[juliank]

I can get as low as the woman in the video and with my knees at 90 degrees but the issue I have is my torso sinks forward. I cant have a fully straight back. Inflexible hips maybe ?