"Society's" general opinion on the occult?

[Unseen_Abilities]

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Edited April 7, 2014 by Unseen_Abilities

[Shagrath]

Hi T.S, it is very interesting topic you started. Just what I have been thinking about for few days. I will just start with little background.

 

I have two people influenced my life the most. Each of them in their own particular way. One guy has its background in yoga and later taijiquan and another guy in magic. Those two guys know each other really well and they speak about the same things, they come to the same conclusions but through different paths. And although they speak about the same thing they use different metaphors, different words but ultimately/essentially it is the same.

 

So this "magic guy" has history in O.T.O., A∴A∴, Golden Down, qabalah, tarot, astrology, worked with Gudjieff system, buddhism, learned aramaic/hebrew/chinese/helen language so he could read original old and new testament and chinese literature, etc. Really amazing guy. In the past he did practice a lot of magic and practical qabalistic alchemy, vibrational qabalah,...untill he became one of the few people in the world with the deepest understanding of those sciences. I have met and chated with few O.T.O. and A∴A∴ members that went to see this guy for some clearing out the foundation of qabalah and magic, to help them better understand, etc. He said that he never was official member of any of those schools rather he went really deep into understanding these philosophies, practiced them diligently for many many hours a day until he understood them completely and the he move forward to another field. He said that he never liked to have label on himself of some system, he was just curious to understand the essence of all things. Once he said that magic can be divided into two paths. Black magic and white magic. Black magic is when your practice is driven by Ego and lust for power while white magic is for consciousness development. And for example if you heal someone, and that deed was just to make you a GREAT HEALER and to earn you respect that was black magic. Also that you never must interfere with free will. You must not make things happen, because price is too high. Had a lot of experience and different stories which were really let just say interesting how can your own work bounce back to you. Never the less, now he only focuses on qabalah (and says that is the greatest system ever created in the world), tarot (extension on qabalah) and he focuses on pure spirituality (bible, buddhism, etc). His advice to me was that magic can be really dangerous and it is not a child play. Worst thing is about magic that 99% of headmasters or teachers are just people with fetishes toward magic that do not understand it's core and because of that they cannot warn you or guide you in proper direction, so this can lead to MAJOR consequences and spiritual degradation. His ultimate advice was dive in magic and try to understand the philosophy of it, because it is the same as any other religion. Ipsissimus is the same thing as Buddha, it is the person with highest state of consciousness and True Will is the concept as Dao, God or call it as you like.

So, many years now I diligently practiced meditation and understanding indian philosophy for most time (meher baba, nisargadatta, ramana maharshi,...) and few days ago I come to realization that I need to dive into magic for better understanding of some processes. So now I will take his advice and start reading Israel Regardie, Helena Blavatsky, Rudolf Steiner, Aleister Crowley, Papus, etc.

I think it is really constructive to go into magic and occult parallel to something else. Like christianity, taoism, hinduism, thelema etc. Only because it will give you more objective perspective to the same thing, The Truth. If you focus on only one perspective it will be extremely subjective and you will lose Truth from your eyesight because you will be caught into the paradigm of some path. It doesn't you will, it's just my way of looking to those things.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Shagrath

[Unseen_Abilities]

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Edited April 7, 2014 by Unseen_Abilities

[Shagrath]

Yes, of course. You make a point with your statement that you should improve the world that you experience. That is true, but not on the cost of influencing other peoples free will. You will get bad karma points for that

 

I do not have personal experience in magic so this will be only saying what I have been told and I will give examples that are not mine. For example, you can use magic powerful rituals for somebody to fall in love with you, to pass the exam etc. Years ago one friend of mine used the magic rituals to make money by making the people who give him money to pass any exam at university But there was a catch. It was working really nice every single time and one time the professor got expelled from school due to sexual harassment. The ritual made such a strong energy surrounding that one girl who wanted to pass the very hard exam and professor was also under influence of ritual that he was so charmed with her that he let her pass although she did't know enough for passing that subject. Later on that implanted sexual tension boiled inside him that he could barely control him self when in her presence and he wanted to have sex with her etc and he got expelled. He was the collateral damage of her wants. That is the thing with magic rituals, you set a goal and focus on it and do the ritual to make it happen. BUT there is the price to be payed, you cannot chose how it is going to be fulfilled or who will get injured, you will have your result no matter what. In that case of professor, he was innocent, it wasn't his fault that he felt that strong attraction towards that girl. When that occurred my friend left magic practices for good and he never looked back, he was really sad that he made that come true, and innocent guy lost his job just because some stupid girl didn't want to study regularly.

 

One of my friend roommate fell in love in some random guy she saw in club. To make long story short, she (that girl not my friend) with her mom and granny cast a very powerful spell over that poor guy to fell in love with her. He literally could not think about his wife and his two daughters, he couldn't have erection and that selfish girl was always in his mind. He started to lose his mind and cry all day long because he didn't know how come his entire life collapsing over night. One day my frind took him to see guy mentioned in previous post to take away that curse. And after 7 hours of taking curse away he vomited for half an hour and vomitet blood also (they say that when you vomit after taking down some curse it's a sign that is was successful), he was relieved and he could return to normal life like nothing happened. The guy that take away his curse told him that all this will break down on that girl. And few days after my friend witnessed her roommate to go crazy, wanted to make suicide and she was taken to psychiatry and she stayed there.

 

That process is call in magic THE SON THAT RETURNS TO KILL HIS FATHER. That was mine translation I don't know how it is called in english. So the point is that "the son" refers to curse, and "father" is the creator of that curse. And when somebody cleans the curse it returns and I can strike your children, grandchildren or you. You never know.

 

That is why you must be careful not to influence other people rather just yourself. You should work towards your own maturation of consciousness, clean your karma and karmic debt and good thing will happen to you and you will enjoy your life fully.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Shagrath

[Seth Ananda]

I'm just curious about this, and if anyone has any ideas...To me, Spirituality and my interest in the Occult has become very normal in my mind - It's no big deal to me any more that I believe in Magic and have witnessed it working. But, and I speak generally here, it seems that the (vast) majority of people simply aren't interested in magic, or (usually if they're religious - again, I'm generalising) are actually vehemently opposed to anything that even hints at it.

I think that people have to feel opposed to it, as to seriously question if it is real would be to seriously question the foundations of ones entire world view. Most do not want to do that.

Others that have a more magical model of the world, often have a set of beliefs that stop them exploring the subject in any meaningful manner. like 'Karma', or 'its all evil manipulation' or 'Mages don't really know what those beings really want'....

 

I want to know, if it's possible (which it might not be), how most people genuinely feel about this stuff...What areas of the world is magic more accepted in? If you yourself have an interest in, or practice magic, do you keep it to yourself? Only socialise with people who have similar interests? If you have a romantic partner, do they share your interests, and if not, are they accepting of it?

Well i love it. I don't actively try to hide it or talk about it, as far as outsiders are concerned, usually. Sometimes I like to bring it up if I become interested in how someone would react to the subject, or If i think they may find it genuinely Interesting. I hear Bali, and many similar places accept Magick far more readily than the west. I tend to associate myself mostly with people with similar interests to me, as i like conversation about topics that are dear to me.

I'm starting to think that aspiring to achieve in these areas may have consequences that are more far-reaching than I may have previously realised, but now that I know what I do, I'm not sure I can turn back. Haha, that sounds a little dramatic, and may not be a bad thing at all...I've just been extremely hesitant in mentioning my interest in these things to the people I know up to this point.

 

Hopefully this will make for some interesting discussion.

 

Thanks.

Does it matter what others think? Well it did have consequences for Galileo, but no one is going to burn you at the stake.

And who wants to be surrounded by muggles 24.7? Find the people who like what you are in to... They tend to be far more Interesting anyway.

[WillingToListen]

It's hard for some to believe in magic, because it's right in their face everyday.

 

I think it'd be similar to asking a fish if he believes in water

[Seth Ananda]

It's hard for some to believe in magic, because it's right in their face everyday.

 

I think it'd be similar to asking a fish if he believes in water

I'm not sure how you mean this?

Are you referring to some general 'miraculousness' of life that is always present and slides past unappreciated or something else?

I would like to add that what I call Magick has nothing in common with the normal life of a 'mundane'...

[RiverSnake]

A insightful article on this very topic: http://www.headforred.blogspot.com/2010/12/sorcerys-dangerous-game.html

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[DragonsNectar69k]

Hrmmm. There is nothing wrong with "magick" or the occult per say. One does need to study the occult and become learned to study the 'mysteries' of God and develop their subtle body, third eye, etc. But there is no free lunch. I have read countless stories of conjuring and spell castings gone wrong due to lack of self-awareness and inner development. If you cause one force to move, you will surely off set another. All you can truly move is yourself, the I AM. Not others. There are plenty of people out there who have 'powers' and 'siddhis' but only use them when they are in accordance with higher beings. Which is a matter of wisdom, because ultimately one will be responsible for whatever the outcome maybe with such workings.

 

In my opinion, to truly get a grasp of magick is to study alchemy and the manipulation and use of forces. There is alchemy all over and in the bible, but most do not study or perceive such a holy book in that manor. There is plenty of alchemy in the vedatas and sutras as well. In almost every holy book. Rosicrucian and Hermetic-ism can make for a fascinating read.

 

Unfortunately people do use magick and alchemy for selfish purposes never truly acknowledge their own responsibility or integrity in the manor and it eventually leads to more darkness, self-deficit, and utter blindness. If you ever get the chance to experience a exorcism, it usually involves the reversal of some kind of weaving or possesion of an entity that does not want have it's truth be known or brought to the light, as abstract as that seems. It something is deceitful it is usually dark in nature, if is benign it can be of light. Hence the reason to study alchemy. Too much Light can cause one to ascend here on earth and become a celestial being, immortal, saint, buddha, God, etc. Others will feel or be put off by one's presence or glory. This is why we rarely see the God's, but rather demons, as the God's can easily kill a mortal being just by being in one's presence. (personal experience)

 

If there is anything that I have truly learned that is beneficial and has helped me the most is the use of Holy Fire to purify my aura/energy field and allow me to cleanse myself from the influence and dominion of others. For most magick is a game of power, control, vanity, and identity. There are plenty of covens and 'energy healers' out there who can easily take you for a ride. A true student could give a sh*t less for the material gains involved with the craft, but the science and philosophy it self. It is like learning how to fix your own car, rather than relying on the perception of a mechanic. Who can know you more than yourself? This is what is known as worshiping the Creator, not the creation. Study the art if you are truly interested, many Catholic priests and people who live celibate lives are secret alchemist. haha.

[DragonsNectar69k]

Also there are SEVERAL forms of magick that can be studied. It requires tools, the development of the subtle body, or an 'awakened' state. Some forms of magick have there pros and cons. Some lineages require a pact or devotion to those who came before you who usually act as guides. One eventually takes their place when one dies or passes over it seems.

 

The way I study magick, is how I study mechanics. I need to know all the possibilities of what this mechanism can do and how it can be worked before I have truly mastered the subject. Learning to acknowledge one's energy body is a good start, learning to purify one's energy body is another great skill to have, learning to ascend and have access to infinite wisdom through purity is another invaluable tool. Most of the time 'healers' end up getting caught up in other people's BS and half-truths which can drag them down a dark path to 'help' others.

[stefos]

Hi T.S....

 

Society has a "mixed grab bag" understanding of the latin word "occultus" meaning "hidden."

 

So, technically ANYTHING "hidden" is occult, to begin with.

 

Secondly, IF by occult you mean New Age.....most of society sees this as flukey & flakey.

 

Lastly, IF by occult you mean "an esoteric body of knowledge/understanding/perceptions" then very little of society even knows about let alone cares about THIS definition of the word "occult." I for one would be very careful when moving into THIS body of understanding/perception. Without a teacher, one gets involved with stuff which can be perceived but not understood. To me understanding matters in what I perceive.

 

For me, I've perceived various things which I can talk about but which must be perceived to be understood ultimately.

 

Sorry for being academic! ahahahaha....

But what I've said is true.

 

Take care

Stefos

Edited June 19, 2013 by stefos

[DragonsNectar69k]

Hi T.S....

 

Society has a "mixed grab bag" understand of the latin word "occultus" meaning "hidden."

 

So, technically ANYTHING "hidden" is occult, to begin with.

 

Secondly, IF by occult you mean New Age.....most of society sees this as flukey & flakey.

 

Lastly, IF by occult you mean "an esoteric body of knowledge/understanding/perceptions" then very little of society even knows about let alone cares about THIS definition of the word "occult." I for one would be very careful when moving into THIS body of understanding/perception. Without a teacher, one gets involved with stuff which can be perceived but not understood. To me understanding matters in what I perceive.

 

For me, I've perceived various things which I can talk about but which must be perceived to be understood ultimately.

 

Sorry for being academic! ahahahaha....

But what I've said is true.

 

Take care

Stefos

 

If you play with enough magick, you will begin to see plenty of parallels and constructs. You begin to see the forces behind the words. The TAO itself, The Great Architect, The Creator, if you will. The only difference in black and white magick, is one's intention. Inner-tention.

[stefos]

If you play with enough magick, you will begin to see plenty of parallels and constructs. You begin to see the forces behind the words. The TAO itself, The Great Architect, The Creator, if you will. The only difference in black and white magick, is one's intention. Inner-tention.

Say whaaat?

 

Play with magick? Who can give an accurate description of this magick? Who can give an accurate description & understanding of nature spirits IN CONTEXT of the greater world & the Why of it?

 

Sir, forgive my ignorance but, WHO in the world today knows anything about real magick?

 

The Order of the Golden Dawn purported to claim such knowledge but they were defunct.

Now, The order has been revived per se under a certain gentleman.

 

Who to believe?

 

Comments?

Thanks

[DragonsNectar69k]

Say whaaat?

 

Play with magick? Who can give an accurate description of this magick? Who can give an accurate description & understanding of nature spirits IN CONTEXT of the greater world & the Why of it?

 

Sir, forgive my ignorance but, WHO in the world today knows anything about real magick?

 

The Order of the Golden Dawn purported to claim such knowledge but they were defunct.

Now, The order has been revived per se under a certain gentleman.

 

Who to believe?

 

Comments?

Thanks

 

Magick can not be defined directly, it has direct correlation to being a Creator in a sense, that is innumerable and infinite in essence. When you speak of covens, you will be studying rituals and crafts that require a certain degree of Order. A certain process, but even then the results are not always the same. Most of the work should be concerned with developing a 'inwardness' of completion.

 

To say that one's craft is superior to another is FALSE. This is why I spent time studying satanic covens, their constructs, and perceptions. There defintely are demons and beings who are heartless and ruthless, I paid the price from a while but realized that most of this magick enimates from utter hate, covetness, and greed. So I found that it was not HOW the magick was working but WHY and WHAT FOR. I already had experience in Christian circles, but I did not understand the relevance of witchcraft, voodoo, dark shamanism, and satanism. Mind you, I wasn't even aware of Bodhivistas and the Hinduistic Pantheon concerning yoga as well. The universe is vast, and I learned that we all don't view it in the same manor. Some feel that God or higher beings hate them and so they seek to oppose through joining dark circles and crafts, due to the cards one may have been dealt in life. Others are just plain greedy or have been exposed to some craft of power that worships creation rather than Creator.

 

But in my honest opinion it comes down to intention. Even Aleister Crowley, revered as crazy and out of this world most of the time, understood this relevance of magick...

 

"Black magic is not a myth. It is a totally unscientific and emotional form of magic, but it does get results — of an extremely temporary nature. The recoil upon those who practice it is terrific.

It is like looking for an escape of gas with a lighted candle. As far as the search goes, there is little fear of failure!

To practice black magic you have to violate every principle of science, decency, and intelligence. You must be obsessed with an insane idea of the importance of the petty object of your wretched and selfish desires.

I have been accused of being a "black magician." No more foolish statement was ever made about me. I despise the thing to such an extent that I can hardly believe in the existence of people so debased and idiotic as to practice it."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

 

But ultimately I seek to view magick from a supreme point of view, Brahmin as this state is called in the East. The Lord as this higher being is called in the Bible. The heavens are full of highly astute beings while hell rages with the inferno of indignation.

 

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

Edited June 28, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[stefos]

Magick can not be defined directly, it has direct correlation to being a Creator in a sense, that is innumerable and infinite in essence. When you speak of covens, you will be studying rituals and crafts that require a certain degree of Order. A certain process, but even then the results are not always the same. Most of the work should be concerned with developing a 'inwardness' of completion.

 

To say that one's craft is superior to another is FALSE. This is why I spent time studying satanic covens, their constructs, and perceptions. There defintely are demons and beings who are heartless and ruthless, I paid the price from a while but realized that most of this magick enimates from utter hate, covetness, and greed. So I found that it was not HOW the magick was working but WHY and WHAT FOR. I already had experience in Christian circles, but I did not understand the relevance of witchcraft, voodoo, dark shamanism, and satanism. Mind you, I wasn't even aware of Bodhivistas and the Hinduistic Pantheon concerning yoga as well. The universe is vast, and I learned that we all don't view it in the same manor. Some feel that God or higher beings hate them and so they seek to oppose through joining dark circles and crafts, due to the cards one may have been dealt in life. Others are just plain greedy or have been exposed to some craft of power that worships creation rather than Creator.

 

But in my honest opinion it comes down to intention. Even Aleister Crowley, revered as crazy and out of this world most of the time, understood this relevance of magick...

 

"Black magic is not a myth. It is a totally unscientific and emotional form of magic, but it does get results — of an extremely temporary nature. The recoil upon those who practice it is terrific.

It is like looking for an escape of gas with a lighted candle. As far as the search goes, there is little fear of failure!

To practice black magic you have to violate every principle of science, decency, and intelligence. You must be obsessed with an insane idea of the importance of the petty object of your wretched and selfish desires.

I have been accused of being a "black magician." No more foolish statement was ever made about me. I despise the thing to such an extent that I can hardly believe in the existence of people so debased and idiotic as to practice it."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

 

But ultimately I seek to view magick from a supreme point of view, Brahmin as this state is called in the East. The Lord as this higher being is called in the Bible. The heavens are full of highly astute beings while hell rages with the inferno of indignation.

 

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

 

Well....that was insightful.

 

Thank you for sharing your personal life with us here.

I appreciate your candidness.

 

So a few questions:

 

1. Can you define magick for me?

 

2. Why is magick polarized to "white" & "black"?

Is there such magick as "grey"?

 

Technically, White & Black are polar opposites and are of time or "in the mode of becoming" to use a Buddhist phrase.

I see the terms "White" & "Black" as being interdependent.

 

Can you speak to that which is beyond time?

Does such a concept "fit" into the world of magick?

 

3. Magick seems to be associated with the will.

We all have a will.

Eating, sleeping, drinking water, clothing & shelter are basic needs but we use the will to "meet the need" as it were.

 

Rudolph Steiner mentioned "Feeling/Thinking/Willing"

Is this how YOU function in/with magick?

 

Thank you kindly,

Stefos

[DragonsNectar69k]

Well....that was insightful.

 

Thank you for sharing your personal life with us here.

I appreciate your candidness.

 

So a few questions:

 

1. Can you define magick for me?

 

2. Why is magick polarized to "white" & "black"?

Is there such magick as "grey"?

 

Technically, White & Black are polar opposites and are of time or "in the mode of becoming" to use a Buddhist phrase.

I see the terms "White" & "Black" as being interdependent.

 

Can you speak to that which is beyond time?

Does such a concept "fit" into the world of magick?

 

3. Magick seems to be associated with the will.

We all have a will.

Eating, sleeping, drinking water, clothing & shelter are basic needs but we use the will to "meet the need" as it were.

 

Rudolph Steiner mentioned "Feeling/Thinking/Willing"

Is this how YOU function in/with magick?

 

Thank you kindly,

Stefos

 

1) No. WHY? WHAT FOR?

 

2) In the mode of becoming.. Yes.

 

3) Feel - Think - Will. SO MOTE IT BE!

[stefos]

1) No. WHY? WHAT FOR?

 

2) In the mode of becoming.. Yes.

 

3) Feel - Think - Will. SO MOTE IT BE!

 

1. Why define magick & what for?

 

This is obvious man: Knowledge sake.....Defending myself against kooks & malignant people & forces...perhaps????

Riiiigght??

 

2. O.K.

 

3. O.K.

 

The bottom line is that the duality "Good vs. Evil" is not "good." It keeps a person stuck in duality.

 

I'm of the persuasion that we must go beyond "Good vs. Evil" by examining our motives & means & ends.

Ultimately, there is only ONE reality, not 5 billion different flavorings of it. No matter how the expressions may be presented.

 

So, I don't like the White, Black, Grey magick schema. Magick is magick....I even question the motives of so-called "White magick" practicioners: Who taught them? Why were they taught? What is the moral fiber/character of these magickcians?

 

Dubious business indeed.

 

Stefos

[DragonsNectar69k]

1. Why define magick & what for?

 

This is obvious man: Knowledge sake.....Defending myself against kooks & malignant people & forces...perhaps????

Riiiigght??

 

2. O.K.

 

3. O.K.

 

The bottom line is that the duality "Good vs. Evil" is not "good." It keeps a person stuck in duality.

 

I'm of the persuasion that we must go beyond "Good vs. Evil" by examining our motives & means & ends.

Ultimately, there is only ONE reality, not 5 billion different flavorings of it. No matter how the expressions may be presented.

 

So, I don't like the White, Black, Grey magick schema. Magick is magick....I even question the motives of so-called "White magick" practicioners: Who taught them? Why were they taught? What is the moral fiber/character of these magickcians?

 

Dubious business indeed.

 

Stefos

 

1) Open palm or closed fist? To defend yourself is to hinder growth and the opportunity to grow. There isn't a right or wrong answer here. If you believe that there are evil forces out in the universe, you have already found them in your belief. If your seeking ONE reality, this also means you will have to see past the vices and ills of others. Drug dealers, murderers, rapist, etc. The reason people abhorred such relations because of the treachery and agony that is inherit in said individuals. They are experiencing hell within.

[stefos]

1) Open palm or closed fist? To defend yourself is to hinder growth and the opportunity to grow. There isn't a right or wrong answer here. If you believe that there are evil forces out in the universe, you have already found them in your belief. If your seeking ONE reality, this also means you will have to see past the vices and ills of others. Drug dealers, murderers, rapist, etc. The reason people abhorred such relations because of the treachery and agony that is inherit in said individuals. They are experiencing hell within.

 

I beg to differ:

 

Ultimate reality vs. Relative reality is what I refer to.

 

It seems that magick has one standing a twixt the chasm of the two, not seriously committed toward Ultimate reality.

 

I have know drug dealers, drug users, alcoholics. Suffice to say that selfishness is their God.

Their selfishness contorts them as it did me & you.

Every person has either allowed or not allowed themselves to be molded by upbringing &/or life events & other forms of conditioning. So be it.

 

Suffice to say that selflessness is qualitatively different & not a "path" sought after by many.

 

OM Shanti, Shanti, Shanti

Edited July 17, 2013 by stefos

[Apech]

I beg to differ:

 

Ultimate reality vs. Relative reality is what I refer to.

 

It seems that magick has one standing a twixt the chasm of the two, not seriously committed toward Ultimate reality.

 

I have know drug dealers, drug users, alcoholics. Suffice to say that selfishness is their God.

Their selfishness contorts them as it did me & you.

Every person has either allowed or not allowed themselves to be molded by upbringing &/or life events & other forms of conditioning. So be it.

 

Suffice to say that selflessness is qualitatively different & not a "path" sought after by many.

 

OM Shanti, Shanti, Shanti

 

 

Thank you for the OM Shanti at the end which is very pleasing. I can see you have had a varied social life amongst addicts and heavy drinkers, moulded as they are by circumstance and conditioning. What tales you could tell I am sure.

 

That you distinguish selfishness from selflessness is admirable and also perspicacious indeed. Well done I say. To have a self or not to have a self is a choice we all must make. I personally find that I am less selfish at the weekends. Perhaps weekdays are more taxing, I am not sure. Perhaps I will never know.

 

Peace, pax, many, many times over.

[DragonsNectar69k]

I beg to differ:

 

Ultimate reality vs. Relative reality is what I refer to.

 

It seems that magick has one standing a twixt the chasm of the two, not seriously committed toward Ultimate reality.

 

I have know drug dealers, drug users, alcoholics. Suffice to say that selfishness is their God.

Their selfishness contorts them as it did me & you.

Every person has either allowed or not allowed themselves to be molded by upbringing &/or life events & other forms of conditioning. So be it.

 

Suffice to say that selflessness is qualitatively different & not a "path" sought after by many.

 

OM Shanti, Shanti, Shanti

 

Hrmm. What is selfish? Is it selfish to live?

 

It has been said that hell is locked from within. To be selfless, I must rely on the ability of others to sustain me. It all goes back to.. Why am I alive? Why am I here? What shall I do with this life?