$1.5million Fajin Challenge

[Jeff]

Is it dependent on a person being sensitive to qi? I think, for the majority of practitioners this is a fair assumption as the people I knocked over, even if they were not my students and had never met me before, ended up studying with me due to that very sensitivity. As I said earlier I have learned, through control, not to throw qi in that manner so as to insure it doesn't happen, as I am only interested in the healing/transformation aspect of the qi projection. The general population runs from 0 to 100 in terms of qi sensitivity.

 

 

Hi Ya Mu (and all),

 

I think this is an excellent point. In my (very limited) experienments with friends, for a person to consciously aware of it they must be already sensitive to qi (or subtle body). A local holistic practitioner (also has a Ph.D) has a machine which she claims can measure changes of state in the energy body along with normal body energy flows. I will check and see if there is a set "frequency" to measure independently. From past discussions, the issue is that the machine seems to need a "driver", as the theory is sort of an advanced bio/machine muscle testing.

 

Best, Jeff

[Friend]

Edited March 29, 2013 by Friend

[Wells]

Stig,

 

may I ask how the $ 1.5 million are financed and how the master can be sure to get the money if he demonstrates Jing successfully?

Is there a contract?

Is in the contract also the point defined that the random test subjects won't sue the master if they suffer bodily harm because of the transfer of power?

 

Only an idiot would take your test if these points are not exactly defined and guaranteed!

[Jeff]

Hey Jeff,

they dont need to be Qi Sensitive as. In the past I had try aim at such sort of power. I wear a scarf around mouth and nose and stand 3meters andI had a blue feather around 3 cm broad 8 cm long and I accidently push the feather which was dangeling from

a thread against the bottom it hangs. The room was closed, doors and windows was closed. The negative was: I was feeling 2 days really bad, a sort of tiredness which can not be described from overwork or from illness. So I stop this practise.

I can not say a feather is Qi Sensitive.

 

Q

Hi Friend,

 

I completely agree that it is possible to have "material effects" on existence. Also, Qi does definitely effect people even if they don't notice it. My point was only that for conscious awareness of external energy "contact", i have found that the person needs to be Qi sensitive. I have noticed that the "contact" is often registered on a subconscious basis (even if they are not sensitive) and it sometimes shows up in a vivid dream.

 

Best, Jeff

[voidisyinyang]

The whole qi sensitivity deal depends on the depth of energy blockage of the person receiving the energy and then the amplitude of the qi energy being transmitted.

 

So yeah if a person has a real deep blockage then they need to have the intention of wanting to heal -- and this means asking forgiveness to let go of emotional blockages so that the heart energy will open up.

 

But I think just to move a person's body -- that should not require a person to be qi sensitive -- even if Bruce Frantzis claims this is required.

 

For example there's a great story shared by Paul Dong in his Empty Force book about Yan Xin facing off against Japan's most powerful martial arts master. Yan Xin never had to touch the guy. haha. It was on some physics forum but I think it got removed.

 

Anyway oh I think it's actually in Dong's China's Super Psychics book which is not searchable....

 

I agree that finding a qigong master who can "amp up" the energy to move someone's body against their will is going to be difficult.

 

I think if a qigong master has that ability they may not do it willingly because to have that kind of power requires great virtue using heart loving energy.

 

The heart on its own does not know good versus bad and the heart energy can be dangerous so the brain is required to guide the energy properly using intention.

 

So if the wrong intention is used then the pain caused externally will be felt internally also.

 

So I think this is why qigong masters focus on healing people because to create the chi energy requires first creating the love bliss energy based on good intentions.

 

Certainly there are instances of anger -- for example Chunyi Lin mentioned when he gets angry then light bulbs explode. haha.

 

It sounds like $1.5 million is a trick -- as if "no one can achieve this so our money is safe" kind of amount.

[ralis]

If one's world view is small and anthropocentric then that is what one will receive. Nothing more, nothing less.

[voidisyinyang]

If one's world view is small and anthropocentric then that is what one will receive. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Well for example I have moved bodies at a distance through the "O at a D" -- causing females to arch their backs and to shudder. haha. So then the debate arises -- did they "want" that to happen? My experience is the chi energy is an instinctive reaction -- the vagus nerve is activated and then the prefrontal cortex of desire naturally follows from that. This has been proven by the way with the Libet tests -- it's limited to motion reactions - how there is a three second delay -- the motion part of the brain instinctively reacts and only three seconds later does the person consciously decide to move.

 

But anyway I remembered another Chunyi Lin story of him demonstrating "qissage" which is touching -- and the person collapsed and Chunyi had to hold his body up and the person was almost fainting and then sweating profusely and his skin changed color. Afterwards the person said his life had been changed. It was some particular point on the spine across from the heart I think. But the person volunteered for that yet obviously was very surprised at what happened.

[Wells]

Stig,

I skyped with Gary and he told me that he basically doesn't care for your scientific testing because he doesn't believe you that you can and will pay him the $ 1.5 million if he proves his Jing to you!

I guess his scepticism is legitimate!

 

Anyways, Gary received Jeff's email and agreed that Jeff can make an appointment for testing his Jing!

Gary will film it and the video will be uploaded in this thread!

[chi 2012]

Anyways, Gary received Jeff's email and agreed that Jeff can make an appointment for testing his Jing!

Gary will film it and the video will be uploaded in this thread!

 

Awesome! You're the man Jeff. If you can Jeff - try and do Emotional Lipo while you are there.

[Friend]

Edited March 29, 2013 by Friend

[Jeff]

Stig,

I skyped with Gary and he told me that he basically doesn't care for your scientific testing because he doesn't believe you that you can and will pay him the $ 1.5 million if he proves his Jing to you!

I guess his scepticism is legitimate!

 

Anyways, Gary received Jeff's email and agreed that Jeff can make an appointment for testing his Jing!

Gary will film it and the video will be uploaded in this thread!

Gary's response to my email has not confirmed his interest in the test. I have responded with some follow up questions.

 

Best, Jeff

[Jeff]

Dont let him touch you Jeff. Just let him project.

Hi Friend,

 

I have asked him if he needs physical contact. Otherwise, it could just be a very fast punch.

 

Thanks, Jeff

[Stigweard]

Stig,

I skyped with Gary and he told me that he basically doesn't care for your scientific testing because he doesn't believe you that you can and will pay him the $ 1.5 million if he proves his Jing to you!

I guess his scepticism is legitimate!

 

Anyways, Gary received Jeff's email and agreed that Jeff can make an appointment for testing his Jing!

Gary will film it and the video will be uploaded in this thread!

 

Hahhahah ... and here come the "Exit Clauses" ... so very predictable ... and rather pathetic !!!

 

[Wells]

Dont let him touch you Jeff. Just let him project.

 

Hi Friend,

 

I have asked him if he needs physical contact. Otherwise, it could just be a very fast punch.

 

Thanks, Jeff

 

Gary told me that Jing is a vibration that flows from tantien over the bone structure into the opponent. Physical contact is needed for that. That's how Ron Hoffman did it to thetaobums member h.uriahr (as he described it to me!) and as Waysun Liao did it to that guy in the book I posted before!

[Wells]

Hahhahah ... and here come the "Exit Clauses" ... so very predictable ... and rather pathetic !!!

 

 

It seems more pathetic to me to claim to be able to pay $ 1.5 million but ignoring the questions which ask for backing that claim up.

[Stigweard]

It seems more pathetic to me to claim to be able to pay $ 1.5 million but ignoring the questions which ask for backing that claim up.

 

LOL ... perhaps you ignored the fact that I have given complete links to where the project is being hosted. All details, including where the money is located, is provided. I know some bums have gone across to verify. I also know with 100% certainty that Gary has a Facebook account.

 

You will just have to accept that I am deliberately wanting to keep any involvement with the "Challenge" contained to one location.

 

[Wells]

Stig,

 

it seems to me that you are such a sceptic that you are simply convinced to never have to pay that money anyway.

Therefore it doesn't bother you that you couldn't pay it and don't even bother with backing your claims up!

 

Already from the beginning I have the strong suspicion this whole thing is just a set-up from you to advertise and to approve the Taichi that you are teaching that is completely devoid of Jing!

 

I mean: What would be the worth of the taichi that you are selling/teaching if it would be proven that taichi styles exist that have real Jing/Fajin?!

Edited February 24, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Friend]

Edited March 29, 2013 by Friend

[Jeff]

 

Gary told me that Jing is a vibration that flows from tantien over the bone structure into the opponent. Physical contact is needed for that. That's how Ron Hoffman did it to thetaobums member h.uriahr (as he described it to me!) and as Waysun Liao did it to that guy in the book I posted before!

 

Gary also just emailed that he needs physical contact. That for distance work he needs someone who is responsive to his Nei Kung.

 

I have followed up with a question to see if the contact needs to be in a specific location or could be something like finger tip to finger tip.

 

Jeff

[voidisyinyang]

how much do we have to pay Stig to copy and paste his facebook material to thetaobums? haha.

 

i don't have facebook and I don't plan on it.

 

If anyone on ttb can c/p that info -- then just do it -- it's free!!

 

Yeah but know it has to be some "secret" information. haha.

 

Science is based on open protocols - that anyone can access -- sure sometimes you might have to go to a University library to access a journal.

 

For example I could find no academic library in the Twin Cities that had Dr. David Palmer's article on Falun Gong - so I mailed a letter to Dr. Palmer and then he mailed me a copy of the article.

 

So it's just considered academic protocol to make the information publically available upon request -- be it interlibrary loan or whatever.

 

Ummm this whole thing is starting to smell of the James Randi "challenge" test which has been exposed as fake:

 

http://dailygrail.com/features/the-myth-of-james-randis-million-dollar-challenge

 

Oh yeah James Randi attacked Chunyi Lin without knowing anything about him! haha.

 

Someone complained to James Randi because Chunyi Lin was teaching qigong to the employees at the person's place of work - based on the reference of Chunyi Lin having taught the Mayo Clinic doctors qigong.

 

So anyway it's kind of like arch-skeptic PZ Myers, a Minnesota professor, who has attacked Spring Forest Qigong yet Myers refuses to go "test" Chunyi Lin even though they live in the same state. haha. The skeptics just hide while Chunyi Lin is openly healing people etc.

 

O.K. Stig what about Effie P. Chow's youtube vid of pushing a whole group of people using her chi energy?

 

I know Effie P. Chow is a real qigong master - -when I saw her in 1995 a University security guard wandered in when everyone was leaving - she said she wondered what was going in as the fuse in the room behind Effie P. Chow was blown. haha.

 

Oh yeah I know you want "scientific protocol" but I doubt anyone could establish a "double blind" standard for any qigong test since no one knows what qi energy is -- so no one could rule out telepathy or precognition or some kind of spirit communication, etc. In other words anyone involved with the test could somehow be affecting the results.

 

So that's why Chunyi Lin's scientific test was "gold standard" which is randomized, controlled but that is not double blind.

Edited February 24, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[chi 2012]

Haha PZ Myers. Drew brings out anger blockages in PZ Myers.

[Stigweard]

Gary's response to my email has not confirmed his interest in the test. I have responded with some follow up questions.

 

Best, Jeff

 

Heya Jeff ... I think it is awesome that you are going to go to Gary. I really want to emphasize though, as mentioned previously, that anecdotal evidence is not credible proof of anything. It provides no baseline data that can be quantified. Also your visit will not meet the requirements of being a "controlled environment", it will be in Gary's "space" where he has control. The purpose of a double-blind experiment is to remove any chance that the demonstrator or the subject can influence the results. Only then can we have confidence in the outcome.

 

Let me perhaps add a few "requests" to the format:

• Have the camera set up side-on to the "test",
• Do 2 test formats, one where Gary is standing in "embrace the tree" position (i.e. arms in front palms facing back to him), and one where you are standing in "embrace the tree",
• Make sure you are a in a comfortable and well structured stance, a bow and arrow stance is preferable with one foot a shoulder width forward of the other. Do not stand with feet parallel, it is too easy to break your balance. Again stand with one foot in front of the other in a well structured, well balanced stance,
• When Gary is in "embrace the tree" you lightly touch his forearms with only your fingers (I acknowledge that contact is required),
• When you are standing in "embrace the tree" Gary lightly touches your forearms with only his fingers,
• Any more contact than this and the test is invalid. We are looking for a legitimate transfer of "Jin" therefore, whilst contact is required, you should be able to do it just through finger contact. As soon as you allow the full palm to come into contact you are immediately allowing a conventional push to happen.
• Under no circumstance should you "lock your structure", this is called "the bronze man" technique and it is a trick with these demonstrations that create the "bounce back" effect. With a locked frame the subject has no choice but to bounce back. Keep your body relaxed and make sure there is plenty of "give" in your arms. Stay relaxed and do not tense up or lock your structure,
• With the video we will see whether Gary can truly "project Jin" by seeing if there is any sign of a push being made; if he moves his body mass toward the target (i.e. you), if he extends his arms at you and if his arms follow the target then it is just a push/shove. Granted it may be a good push because I would be confident in saying that Gary has developed some good internal connections, but a push is still a push. [For example the earlier clip of Gary pushing the guy into the fence is just that, a push, a good push but still just a push].

If this format is followed than I also would be very interested in seeing the video. But once again, success of failure, even this video (just like every other damn video being spammed about) is not the sort of credible evidence required to establish a body of base-line data. Only in a proper double-blind, controlled environment can we have a degree of confidence in the results.

 

[Wells]

I mean: What would be the worth of the taichi that you are selling/teaching if it would be proven that taichi styles exist that have real Jing/Fajin?!

 

[Wells]

 

• [For example the earlier clip of Gary pushing the guy into the fence is just that, a push, a good push but still just a push].

 

No, it isn't! It's Jing and you really have absolutely no idea how it works! Therefore I wonder how you want to define the rules for a Jing test!

I wonder that your rule #1 is not that Gary has to Jing Jeff via remote projection over his iphone!

 

You better had downloaded and studied extensively the videos of Michael Phillips as I did before he took them off youtube, then you would know how it works!

 

Because I did that and for that reason I'm 100% sure, that Phillips has real Jing and I'm also sure, that it was THE OTHER WAY AROUND: Phillips took his videos off the net because he was retirering from teaching and then you had the ingenious idea to make up your fairy tale about him and that this was the reason for him to take down the vids!

Bad move!

 

Stig, why don't YOU fly to Gary and test him? Now I'd really LOVE to see that on video!

[Wells]

It should also be pointed out now, that I was the guy who pointed you years ago towards Mike Phillips!

Why? Because I studied his vids extentively and therefore knew that he was the real deal!