Owledge Posted February 27, 2013 It is your right to see Clyman as a guru god or whatever you choose. I think he sees him as a teacher. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 27, 2013 Especially egotistical teachers who display themselves on youtube. Â It is your right to see Clyman as a guru god or whatever you choose. I don't care. I do care about spiritual fraud in the marketplace and overpriced stuff in the name of a so called higher and better teaching! Â Very amusing! Gary isn't egoistical at all! In fact, he is the exact contrary of it! If he would be egoistical, he wouldn't share the complete wisdom of the Nei Kung part of Temple Style Taichi for such an affordable price...in fact, if he would be egoistical, he wouldn't share that stuff with us at all and use it only for himself! But in fact, he gives everyone the honest chance to become a great Nei Kung master! He's a great guy and deserves your utmost respect! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted February 27, 2013 If someone is unable to understand that something very precious is not available for a low price seems closeminded to me...and I am not the only one with this opinion in this thread! Â In fact, this is "businessman basics", dude! Â Â Don't lecture me on business. If it is precious to you for now that is your opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted February 27, 2013 Very amusing! Gary isn't egoistical at all! In fact, he is the exact contrary of it! If he would be egoistical, he wouldn't share the complete wisdom of the Nei Kung part of Temple Style Taichi for such an affordable price...in fact, if he would be egoistical, he wouldn't share that stuff with us at all and use it only for himself! But in fact, he gives everyone the honest chance to become a great Nei Kung master! He's a great guy and deserves your utmost respect! Â I give respect to no one that doesn't earn it. Respect is earned and not given! What an inflated view of Clyman! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 27, 2013 I do care about spiritual fraud in the marketplace and overpriced stuff in the name of a so called higher and better teaching! Â A fraud? Why don't you visit him and test his powers to see if he is a fraud or not! But please make sure to film and upload your experience for our collective amusement, I mean instruction! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted February 27, 2013 A fraud? Why don't you visit him and test his powers to see if he is a fraud or not! But please make sure to film and upload your experience for our collective amusement, I mean instruction! Â I didn't accuse Clyman of fraud. Reread my posts. Stop twisting what I wrote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted February 27, 2013 Gary isn't egoistical at all! In fact, he is the exact contrary of it! If he would be egoistical, he wouldn't share the complete wisdom of the Nei Kung part of Temple Style Taichi for such an affordable price...in fact, if he would be egoistical, he wouldn't share that stuff with us at all and use it only for himself! But in fact, he gives everyone the honest chance to become a great Nei Kung master! He's a great guy and deserves your utmost respect! Come on, he's running a business with it and doing well. That's common self-interest. He has nothing to gain from not sharing his knowledge and ability for monetary compensation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 27, 2013 I didn't accuse Clyman of fraud. Reread my posts. Stop twisting what I wrote. Â ok then. Â Come on, he's running a business with it and doing well. That's common self-interest. Â He surely has a healthy ego, and that is a good thing! Â He has nothing to gain from not sharing his knowledge and ability for monetary compensation. Â Other Nei Kung masters who have the juice don't share their knowledge at all or sell only incomplete systems that will keep their students dependant to them all of their live! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Friend Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Edited August 17, 2013 by Friend 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan Posted February 27, 2013 I would appreciate a little respect for what I stated. I happen to be a successful businessman and to tell me to get a job is insane! I happen to employ persons! Get a life! Â i seriously literally need a job, are you hiring? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigweard Posted February 27, 2013 Why don't you quote the best parts of it here (including links)?  Well let me lead by example and provide proof to my claims:   19 February  Ray Abeyta: When doing Chan si "properly" this yin/yang bow, whipping kind of energy can be felt...no big secret....  Michael Phillips: Nothing's a "big secret" once someone tells you how to do it, you BS artist - and it took you personally about 15 tries to do it even "acceptably" when I taught you how to do the "Whipping Branch" exercise, never mind talking about doing it "properly"!  Next time you try and BS your way through about something like this Ray, try and stretch your tiny supply of brain cells far enough to remember that I have video of me teaching you everything you know about TCC that's even vaguely worthwhile.  Unless you would prefer that I put the footage up on Youtube, so that everyone here can watch you bumbling your way thru the learning process in your own uniquely inept way.  Ray Abeyta (speaking directly to MP): Speaking of cartoons, what about the "Elephant" in the room or should I say the "Mastadon", whatever happened in... Orlando was it??? May big Daddy Don can enlighten us... and before I met any "bronx gnome" or down under kid, I was an Int. Tai Chi Champ and multi tcc champ here in the good ol USA....and to be very honest as opposed to some, I'd rather remain ignorant then have to put up with a scared little germaphobic, paranoid, greedy used car salesmen...not worth the price of admission, just wanna warn those who have not had the "pleasure" of their arrogance & know it all attitudes, too bad really.  These are excerpts from a rather lengthy diatribe between these two esteemed characters held here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheKwoon/  A shame Michael took his rather lengthy formal denouncement of Ray down, was an "interesting" read.  In Ray's last comment, the Mastadon reference was about Don Miller fronting up to Michael at the previously mentioned seminar with Michael completely failing to produce anything remotely resembling his "fajin". This comment was directly made from Ray at Michael: "I'd rather remain ignorant then have to put up with a scared little germaphobic, paranoid, greedy used car salesmen"  https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheKwoon/permalink/508104055894540/  Now you can understand what I am laughing so damn hard that Ray continues to promote Michael on his site !!!   OK Dorian ... your turn to share. Please show me one singe scrap of credible evidence that Gary can produce fajin.  1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kasuku Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Â I would also advise you to buy the book "Taichi Classics" of Gary's teacher Waysun Liao, to learn all the theoretical background of Gary's Nei Kung system! Oh yes i got that book first actually, its amazing and very clear... you know all that talk of filling the dantian taking 4 years is crap... You can do it much faster if you just use your yi and breathe 'internally'.. i mean feeling dantian vibrating/ bubbling is the 2nd sign right? did you feel this?.. Gary told me in his neikung it takes only days to do fill it! It makes sense that a foundational practice need not take a whole lifetime! Â Edited February 27, 2013 by Jascha 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 27, 2013 (edited)  Well let me lead by example and provide proof to my claims:     These are excerpts from a rather lengthy diatribe between these two esteemed characters held here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheKwoon/  A shame Michael took his rather lengthy formal denouncement of Ray down, was an "interesting" read.  In Ray's last comment, the Mastadon reference was about Don Miller fronting up to Michael at the previously mentioned seminar with Michael completely failing to produce anything remotely resembling his "fajin". This comment was directly made from Ray at Michael: "I'd rather remain ignorant then have to put up with a scared little germaphobic, paranoid, greedy used car salesmen"  https://www.facebook.com/groups/TheKwoon/permalink/508104055894540/  Now you can understand what I am laughing so damn hard that Ray continues to promote Michael on his site !!!   They both soud pretty butt-hurt!   OK Dorian ... your turn to share. Please show me one singe scrap of credible evidence that Gary can produce fajin.     Quotes of interest:   http://wongkiewkit.c...read.php?t=8776  23rd September 2009, 08:25 PM KungPow Registered User  Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Roseville,CA Posts: 2 Misinformed  There seems to be some confusion over Gary's statement and that's understandable. Gary isnt saying that the Chinese character for "chi" is what's in the characters of tai chi. He's saying that the actual manifestation of chi, the way he describes it, is what is involved in tai chi, or supposed to be anyway.  Gary will happily demonstrate on anyone who wants to doubt his training. His training isnt something to be overlooked or mocked. Hands down his system is the best system I've ever seen or trained in. Keep in mind that his teacher is Waysun Liao who is top notch. I cant really speak for him. I have an opinion though, if it matters lol.  It's my understanding that when people actually project what they call "chi" that it's a more refined chi substance, jing. You can feel your own chi flow as I can feel my own chi flow but the vibration of my/your chi is on too high a level for me/you to project to me/you, unless it's been condensed through some sort of qigong, meditation, etc. That's Gary's say on it, I may have misquoted him or just completely fabricated that from poor memory but if I recall correctly that's how he sees it.  Personally I agree completely with Clyman. I also think that most qigong masters say what he says but maybe in a different way. Another way to view it (poor example warning) is like a big river or lake or whatever. The water source is great and all but if you build a dam then you can really use the source. Very poor example choice.   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  5th August 2011, 03:04 PM Neikung36 Banned  Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: France Posts: 5 Quote: Originally Posted by mwolf I guess when I see statements like that, it makes me question whether individuals like this truly know what they are talking about. These types of people then go on writing books on subjects as fascinating as Qigong and really don't understand what it is, teaching nonsense to students to make a quick buck.  I was able to get through about a third of the article as I do find it interesting reading. On a similar note, there was also a thread on this forum with Sifu Doucherty talking about Qi as if it was irrelevant.  Just makes me a bit sad to see people make comments of this sort as it truly discredits their expertise. Of course he knows what hes talking about.His master was waysun liao, you can go and see him, punch him and kick him in the torso to test his iron shirt and ask him to discharge his jing into you.Have fun with your insides bouncing around and collapsing to the floor once he does it.He also has an interesting story to tell you about sifu wong kiew kit if you ask him.Im not going to say anything or go into details, but lets just say Mr clyman is not impressed with his level of expertise.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5th August 2011, 05:59 PM Neikung36 Banned  Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: France Posts: 5 Ok let me clear some things up , ive read all of wong kiew kits books and i got bad deviations from his practices back in 2002. They lasted for years but i kept on practicing and practicing because i thought that the bad feelings were the chi clearing things out, not only that but i am aware that there are many others suffering deviations also. I did not insult him i stated that clyman did , but in reality he deserves my insults. He doesnt explain things clearly enough in his books and people have suffered.On to Gary now .I went to see Gary Clyman in person, he is everything he says he is and much more.I weigh 84 kilos(not fat) and punched him and his other top guys as hard as i could, ive trained with pro boxers and i can deliver a punch that will knock any man down.I delivered powerfull(liver and spleen) shots and they didnt tense up.When i punched Gary it felt like my wrist bent and could have snapped(he told me he could have snapped it if he wanted to) Not only that but his fa jing demonstrations were very impressive as was his emotional liposuction, he sent me flying with a light slap and i felt my insides bouncing around.Not only that but he said that he hadnt really hit me yet, I refused to test the next level off power.I have his entire system and he is superior to wong kiew kit by a 1000 lifetimes.That is my opinion and if it gets me kicked off then boo hoo hoo.I dont really care! Gary Clyman knows exactly what he is talking about and his stuff works way better than wongs.There are no insults just facts.GET OVER IT  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  http://www.bullshido...php/t-5002.html  Peacedog 8/05/2003 10:59pm, Yeah, I know Gary. He is a very good martial tai chi guy in Chicago. I've played with him a few times and he always wins very easily. He is big on meditation, but he also has the goods. He was orginally trained in martial tai chi, Temple Style I believe, and also knows shia chiao (I know I can't spell).  He is also one of the few practitioners I know who will demonstrate to anyone. He will gladly take anyone's punch to demonstrate the Golden Bell/Iron Shirt stuff. He also has very strong fa jing. Particularly for the non-believers out there if you want proof that this stuff work go to Chicago and ask him to discharge on you. I've never known any non-believer to ask twice.  Equally impressive his students can all also do the Golden Bell stuff. His good students can also discharge.  Hell, he sent me flying into a brick wall with only four fingers and I weighted almost 100kg at the time.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Peacedog 8/05/2003 11:19pm, Very funny. Ask him to punch you using the jing. The sensation is quite amazing and depends on the the typle of jing used. You will go flying.  While there are many frauds among the tai chi guys. Gary is one of the few who actually has it.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Peacedog 8/05/2003 11:40pm, Yeah both Gary and his students fight in tournaments occasionally. Sometimes they win and sometimes they don't. They always do well however. Just like the rest of us and any real fighters. He is very honest about the performance of both himself and his students. Hell I even watched him fight in a boxing match match once. He did that for his 50th birthday just for fun. He won.  His school is very small maybe half a dozen to a dozen people are there at any time. He is very picky about only promoting people who know what they are doing. I think only one person has every completed the system. Also the promotion to green sash requires the person testing to go out and fight someone from another system who is widely known as very good. If memory served a young gold sash was told he would have to fight Nick Fury to get his green sash. This was not an exaggeration. Gary meant it. The training is fairly demanding from a personal practice standpoint and posers leave. Basically you learn the form and then practice the techniques on your own. So if you are not really interested you quit. The two classes I've seen of his were for corrections to form and to practice two person fighting techniques.  He fought Vince Black a number of years ago and lost. Although Vince said Gary did the best of anyone who ever challenged him. Gary gives full respect to the good players out there. He will also tell you if someone is full of ****. Basically he is a standup guy.   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Peacedog 8/05/2003 11:56pm, Yes I've seen Gary do this to a variety of people all of whom had fighting experience. He has done it to me (judo, budotaijitsu, shotokan, boxing and alot of military unarmed combat stuff). I watched him do it to a 5th dan Jeet Kun Do guy who was about 215 lbs and a tad over six feet tall, and an experience boxer in the middle of a match, as well as a few other guys.  To answer the other person, jing is a chinese medical and meditative term that means something like cultivated essense. In fa jing this cultivated essense, which takes years to get apparently, is disharged out of the fighter into the target. It feels like you are getting hit with a brick.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Peacedog 8/06/2003 11:41pm, Sorry it took so long to get back to you guys but I'm about 10 hours ahead out here.  Nick Fury is some local grappling guy in the Chicago area. I've never met him personally but I've seen video of him fighting in tournaments a few times. His techniques look solid.  As for the JKD person you would have to talk to Gary himself. I only met him, the JKD person, over a two day seminar and those were his own words. In any event he was a big solid guy who knew how to move.  Gary has his opinions on the meditative side of the art, but he can back it up on the street. One of the nice things is that he is willing to demonstrate this on anyone who shows up.  I would suggest you call or go visit him in Chicago if you want to see a tai chi guy who has it. He is outspoken, but very friendly. And not in the weird ass cult/I am the master of the universe way that many of the frauds in this form present themselves.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Peacedog 8/07/2003 2:46am, Sam, Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the sincerity. Gary is also a very skilled meditator and accupuncturist with about 30 years of experience. I've spent a few days, on a couple of different occaisions, following him around his accupuncture practice and he is very impressive in his treatment of patients. I can't speak to AIDS patients, but based off of his record in treating other people I don't think it is unreasonable that he can help with an immune system dysfunction or health in general.  I got interested in the healing modalities after breaking my back in a skydiving accident about 2 1/2 years ago. After one treatment Gary took me from 50% to about 80 to 85% despite having done all the other rehabilitative/drug thearapies offered by conventional medicine. I have also seen him help people with circulatory and respiratory problems dramatically. As well as treating people who were suffering from mental and psychological problems as well with good results using the emotional liposuction techniqes.  In a world of frauds in the meditative/martial arts communities he is one of the few I have seen who had credibility in person. He is very honest about his abilities and will be the first to tell you if he cannot do something. Addtionally all of his stuff is solidly built off of technique and practice. No mythical nonsense. Everything is you do A and you get B. He is also open about the fact that his ability to do any of this is based off of lots of experimentation, good teachers, and years of spending several hours a day working on all of this. People out there can do some of this stuff, but the amount of effort required to do so is extreme and built over time. His techniques and training timelines closely mirror what I have seen among the few other credible practitioners I have met over the years and correspond to my own experiences which came from outside their systems.  Thanks for the message,  Tom Skarda  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  http://www.emptyflower.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1899  Posted 28 January 2008 - 12:37 AM To all,  I know Gary Clyman quite well. While his personality sets alot of people off he has some of the best martial tai chi I've ever seen. If you are in Chicago and want to see what real tai chi looks like go see Clyman. I never met anyone half as good while in living in Beijing.  BTW, Waysun Liao is no longer teaching the material he taught to Gary. As often happens as teachers age they find a new focus for their efforts. If you want to get the martial side of tai chi from Waysun's lineage you'll need to see Gary. Gary is very honest about what he is and is not capable of doing and I've never met anyone who doubted his skills who actually met him. Many people do not like Gary because of his personality. Too bad for them. I've often seen Gary repair the damage caused by other less concerned teachers and I've never seen him permanently hurt anyone either.  Out of a handful of teachers I've met who "had the goods" he is one of the most giving and certainly more concerned with his students' well being than most. He is quite intense. That is the reason why he is good at what he does. That said he is neither crazy or dangerous to the people around him. He just despises time wasters and chases them off. That cannot be said of all of the people I have studied with.  We all like to think that our teachers should be paradigms of virtue, have the wisdom of warrior sages and an angelic outward appearance. Reality rarely comes across that way. Several of my teachers completely terrified me and I often wondered if I would survive their training. Gary for example has never beaten me unconscious. The same cannot be said of a female teacher of mine who sits just over five feet tall and weights in at under 100 pounds. Likewise, the closest I ever came to death during training happened while going through a particularly intense series of trials at the hands of an angelic senior citizen that primarily practiced a school whose focus is out of body projection. It always surprises me when others meet these folks and are completely freaked out.  Best of luck with your search for a teacher, Peacedog  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67552&page=16  I have met at least a dozen or more of Liaos's students including those who have been practicing for over 30 years. It looks like this to me:  20 years ago or more he was teaching good stuff. I haven't seen any students who have been with him for less than 10-15 years who have in significant skill. Some of the older guys are really good and really nice. I know the training is very different than it used to be, because the older guys told me so.  The newer students seem to be way way off in some fantasy land. The older ones seem to have some base in reality. I don't think Liao actually teaches any Taichi anymore. If he does, just barely. It's all student teaching.  I think anyone with a solid six months of Jiujitsu could take out virtually any of the students who have less than ten years of taichi practice under there belts.  Even the guys who have been with him for over 20 years still say he hasn't given them everything which is very interesting since Liao himself was in training for less than 10.  I have touched hands in a teaching environment with Liao about half a dozen times. He is really really good! And, yes soft like a willow. Truely amazing. Very powerful.  To Liao, from his mouth, as I understood him say it, the purpose of taichi is to purify and return to the Mother, the Dao itself. I believe that is true.  It is also a nice excuse for students who don't want to face reality. They can just pretend that their taichi is good because they are "returning to the Dao." When someone puts them on the ground or into the wall they can respond with "That was really physical," or "Taichi is not a martial art," or any other nonsense that will help them justify the fact that they don't have anything to show for their training. I feel really sad for them. Especially because Liao is so good.   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  Quote: Dorian Black My friend and Thetaobums-member LittlePie took part in Gary Clyman's „Personal Power Training“ and tested Gary's Jing: Gary touched him slightly on the shoulder and LittlePie went down like "hit by a sledge-hammer". Gary told him that he only used ONE vibration and that he could have used HUNDREDS if he wanted to.  It seems I have to adopt MPG's tactic with skeptics and simply post these quotes with great proof again and again!    Oh yes i got that book first actually, its amazing and very clear... you know all that talk of filling the dantian taking 4 years is crap... You can do it much faster if you just use your yi and breathing 'internally'.. i mean feeling dantian vibrating/ bubbling is the 2nd sign right?  Are you in Jim's forum?  did you feel this?  Yes!  .. Gary told me in his neikung it takes only days to do fill it!  Well, it took me around 3 years...  Maybe Gary said "to feel it"! That is true if you are working very hard with his system! It brings results more quickly than any other system I've ever trained with! Edited February 27, 2013 by Dorian Black Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 27, 2013 In Ray's last comment, the Mastadon reference was about Don Miller fronting up to Michael at the previously mentioned seminar with Michael completely failing to produce anything remotely resembling his "fajin". Â Well, Mike obviously was able to produce his powerful Fajin all the time, including in the impressive video I already posted! Â http://youtu.be/FZf5efMQqwY Â I have no idea why he supposedly couldn't produce it in the seminar mentioned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chi 2012 Posted February 27, 2013 How many hours do you sleep at night Dorian? It's 5:53 AM Germany time LOL. I emailed Gary a question once at around 2AM and he responded right back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted February 27, 2013 Gary once said he sleeps very little. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 27, 2013 How many hours do you sleep at night Dorian? It's 5:53 AM Germany time LOL. Â Who needs sleep with a full tantien? Â I emailed Gary a question once at around 2AM and he responded right back. Â Yes, he always replied to my questions extremely fast...sometimes in only a minute! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 27, 2013 Gary once said he sleeps very little. Â Full tantien... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kasuku Posted February 27, 2013 (edited)      Are you in Jim's forum? No haha, but i did check jims book to compare my feelings to his... here let me quote - "I have to admit I enjoy this vibrating sensation even though it only lasted several weeks. I actually looked forward to the comforting feeling it gives me during my daily training. It is most encouraging because this sensation substantiates my development after all these years. I learned that this vibration is an accumulation of your yang energy around your dan tien. As it builds up, it begins to move faster and faster and then instantly jumps out from the dan tien area and bounces around different parts of your body, if you can imagine. I could feel it in my ankles, and then it bounced up to my shoulders, then down to my calves, then arms, on and on. Later, I was able to, at times, control it somewhat."  today I decided to practice small universe for the first time since i could already feel it along the small universe! and often the buzzing qi goes around to the feet and arms... Yes!   Well, it took me around 3 years... 3 years training in Gary's neikung? or 3 years doing other stuff as well as Gary's neikungMaybe Gary said "to feel it"! That is true if you are working very hard with his system! It brings results more quickly than any other system I've ever trained with! maybe i miss heard, but i remember when i mentioned the 4 - 5 year thing to gary he told me thats "absolute crap" LOL... i burst out laughing... i think its maybe its not best to intellectualize about time frames in the end... just make sure ones practicing is effecient!.. its easy to practice this stuff all day, walking, siting, waiting - yes plus i mean the dantian can never really be filled, u just pack more and more in it until the field goes outside of your body right?... i guess vibration just lets you know you are on your way... was yours really jerky at first? it only happens if i breathe directly into the dantien, and i can kinda control the speed based on how much pressure i use on the dantien But more on this happenings of this thread topic... whats the deal with the so called 'test'... is it happening.. people seems to busy arguing and not actually doing! Edited February 27, 2013 by Jascha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigweard Posted February 27, 2013 It seems I have to adopt MPG's tactic with skeptics and simply post these quotes with great proof again and again! Â You can spam your posts all you want ... but the bottom line is that anecdotal evidence is not credible evidence. Â You have managed to fill up a great amount of content, but you have still been unable to answer this question: Â "Why is there not a single scrap of credible evidence that this Subtle Jin works for real (i.e. in real combat or at the very least in a controlled scientific environment)?" Â Your "stories", your videos of MP, Gary or whoever are not credible evidence. Period. Â Again, there is a testing protocol that I have provided on Facebook for any "master" with the testicular fortitude to prove their "schtick". Why haven't I heard from Gary yet seeing he does have a FB account ?? Â https://www.facebook.com/groups/thefajinproject/doc/421119777927083/ Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Full tantien... That might help with physical regeneration, but as far as I understand there also has to be a brain-based or maybe even crown chakra based regeneration. Low brainwave frequencies, meditative waking state, those regenerate the psyche I think. Maybe someone knows more about this. Could probably be worth a separate thread even. Edited February 27, 2013 by Owledge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigweard Posted February 27, 2013 Well, Mike obviously was able to produce his powerful Fajin all the time, including in the impressive video I already posted! Â http://youtu.be/FZf5efMQqwY Â I have no idea why he supposedly couldn't produce it in the seminar mentioned. Â Accept that it has been revealed that this "powerful fajin" requires compliance from the student for it to work. They are pre-conditioned to use whats called the "sparrow hop", they are also preconditioned to lock their frame up in whats called "the bronze man". Add in the fact that they are so desperate to believe in "super powers" and you have the recipe for every "fajin demo" being spammed about on Youtube. Â Show me a video of Michael, Gary, Adam, Huang, Chu, Wang, or any other "fajin master" performing this on someone other than their students and I just might give your verbosity some credence. Â Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kasuku Posted February 27, 2013 john chang... its still jing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 27, 2013 No haha, but i did check jims book to compare my feelings to his... here let me quote -  "I have to admit I enjoy this vibrating sensation even though it only lasted several weeks. I actually looked forward to the comforting feeling it gives me during my daily training. It is most encouraging because this sensation substantiates my development after all these years. I learned that this vibration is an accumulation of your yang energy around your dan tien. As it builds up, it begins to move faster and faster and then instantly jumps out from the dan tien area and bounces around different parts of your body, if you can imagine. I could feel it in my ankles, and then it bounced up to my shoulders, then down to my calves, then arms, on and on. Later, I was able to, at times, control it somewhat."  today I decided to practice small universe for the first time since i could already feel it along the small universe! and often the buzzing qi goes around to the feet and arms... 3 years training in Gary's neikung? or 3 years doing other stuff as well as Gary's neikung  3 years doing Gary's system ONLY! In between I tried shortly Mo Pai lv1 meditation because I had the opportunity, but Gary's forceful and violent training approach resonates much more with me and seemed to produce results much faster, so I returned quickly to it. His training is pretty tough if you want to do it right.  maybe i miss heard - yes plus i mean the dantian can never really be filled, u just pack more and more in it until the field goes outside of your body right?  I hope so, yes!  ... i guess vibration just lets you know you are on your way... was yours really jerky at first? it only happens if i breathe directly into the dantien, and i can kinda control the speed based on how much pressure i use on the dantien  I don't know. From one point in time, it was simply there.  But more on this happenings of this thread topic... whats the deal with the so called 'test'... is it happening.. people seems to busy arguing and not actually doing!  Well observed...  You can spam your posts all you want ... but the bottom line is that anecdotal evidence is not credible evidence.  You have managed to fill up a great amount of content, but you have still been unable to answer this question:  "Why is there not a single scrap of credible evidence that this Subtle Jin works for real (i.e. in real combat or at the very least in a controlled scientific environment)?"  Your "stories", your videos of MP, Gary or whoever are not credible evidence. Period.  How you define "credible evidence" interests nobody except yourself and your skeptic-buddies! If "anecdotal" evidence piles up, it's believable enough for me!  To say it once more: I know your ulterior motif, it's pretty obvious! All the "scientific" drama is only made up to justify the existence of your empty Jing-devoid Taichi style that you are selling!  Again, there is a testing protocol that I have provided on Facebook for any "master" with the testicular fortitude to prove their "schtick".  I really wonder why John Chang, Waysun Liao and Gary Clyman don't already fajin-duel over the question who of them will have the honor to take your outstanding test first!  Why haven't I heard from Gary yet seeing he does have a FB account ??  Because he doesn't care at all about you and your test. If you want the honor to test him personally, you have to make an appointment and visit him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wells Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Accept that it has been revealed that this "powerful fajin" requires compliance from the student for it to work. They are pre-conditioned to use whats called the "sparrow hop", they are also preconditioned to lock their frame up in whats called "the bronze man". Â Sure! In a real threatening situation they would fajin the opponent directly into the torso, which would result in serious internal damage! I guess it's obvious why most masters want to avoid any risk that this happens and only channel the Jing through the stiffed bone structure of their students during those demonstrations. Â Gary has obviously enormous confidence in his ability to dose the amplitude of his Fajin, otherwise he hadn't Jinged the fat guy into his torso in the video I posted! Â Show me a video of Michael, Gary, Adam, Huang, Chu, Wang, or any other "fajin master" performing this on someone other than their students and I just might give your verbosity some credence. Â Â I already did! Â john chang... its still jing! Â Exactly! Edited February 27, 2013 by Dorian Black Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
