Taoist Third Eye Training?

[silas]

I am researching the topic of 3rd eye. The few sources I've read speak of Buddhist 3rd eye. What is the Taoist equivalent?

[teknix]

Some may most simply say it is the Upper dan tien or UDT, amongst other things.

 

Edited March 5, 2013 by teknix

[taijistudent]

My experiences is that it is located in the approximate region of the thalamus, though it is usually described as being between the eyes above the bridge of the nose.

[寒月 Hanyue]

I am researching the topic of 3rd eye. The few sources I've read speak of Buddhist 3rd eye. What is the Taoist equivalent?

 

What do you want to know?

Which Daoist lineage? They'll approach things differently.

 

Within "Daoist" energy anatomy there are many locations within the 'energy' body, in and around the area of the forehead, and then deeper into the brain. I have seen most of them described, rather erroneously, as being the '3rd eye' by different pop qigong authors. Can they ALL be? Personally I don't warrant such gross universality. But then we have the same issues with nearly all other cavities too, so!?

 

Since you seem to want names, i'll be academic about it;

 

yintang

zuqiao

niwan

tianmen

yuan shenshi

fengfu

xuandan

mingtang

dongfang

tiantinggong

zhizhenggong

taihuang

liuzhugong

yuhuanggong

 

These are all related to the shangdantian. So look them up, but such information really doesn't help understand this very much. Yintang, is the location that most closely 'maps' the location of the 'third eye' from Buddhism as it is often depicted. However it is considered an external location in Daoism. And is not an important point in the lines of neidan I am familiar with.

 

The real development of shangdantian in Daoism is considered shengong, and there are VERY few who I would trust to give much of an opinion on that!

 

My lineages say, get on with the work and such things will happen on their own. There is no '3rd eye' "training" beyond that which naturally occurs as a part of the daily practice.

 

Best,

[silas]

Thanks everyone. I am specifically interested in "3rd Eye" as described in the PersonalTao website. It says: "The Third Eye is a very clever bit of natural evolution: a meta organ designed to sense, connect to patterns and then relay that data back in overlays of information on top of your other senses... It’s possible to use the Third Eye to learn how to sense and visually interpret energy around us."

 

In that site, Casey Kochmer also calls it "patterning". He says that Third Eye is an sense related to intuition, but he is very, very vague about how to train for it. He says that how one chooses to visualize that intuition is very important, but again does not give any examples. I cannot find any other reference to Taoist patterning. Is there a chinese term for this "patterning"?

 

Now, what I am asking is this: is 3rd Eye/patterning similar to the skill that the character Neo in the Matrix movies uses? When Neo looks at people inside the matrix,he sees them as lines of falling computer code and is able to read that code, which means he can read who they are. Casey Kochmer suggests that it's possible to read the world around us in general,

 

So, here's my question: in any religious Taoist tradition, is there training to develop such skills? In classical Taoism, Wu-wei training, entering a persistent meditative state, would be one way to proceed. Would a religious system only talk about qigong exercises? How would you test 3rd eye?

 

In the movie, The Scorpion King, Kelly Wu's character - a sorcerer - is able to find a snake hidden in 1 of 6 identical vases simply by sensing the snake. Is this an example of 3rd Eye? This would be a real-world skill. Are there secret Taoist enclaves where they would be teaching third eye and testing the skill in a similar manner?

 

Here's a clip from the Scorpion King:

. Edited March 5, 2013 by silas

[voidisyinyang]

Just find a qigong master who can charge up your third eye. You will have to meet them half way or else your brain won't be able to take it -- or your mind.

 

The middle of your brain will be on fire from the qigong master. In the Level 3 retreat Chunyi Lin puts his index finger to your forehead and the middle of your brain gets blasted with laser bliss light energy.

 

You should be able to "flex" your pineal gland and always feel a magnetic bliss in the middle of the brain.

 

But the third eye fully opened means being able to see inside other people's bodies and also being able to do long distance healing - reality will be holographic.

 

This is a very rare ability among qigong masters.

 

http://springforestqigong.com has three qigong masters -- I know that two of them can see inside bodies and do long distance healing that makes the brain go on fire as I had them do this to me -- Jim Nance and Chunyi Lin. Otherwise there have been probably hundreds of thousands of qigong students practicing that training.

 

You would need to train six hours a day for about ten years and then have your energy training personally supervised by a master who can see you long distance. Chunyi Lin had this done by Master Yau at Shaolin and then Master Zhang of http://qigongmaster.com for the month long cave meditation in full lotus with next to no food and no water. Oh yeah but Chunyi Lin first had his third eye opened by qigong master Yan Xin as one of Yan Xin's seven hour qi-emitting healing lectures for thousands of people in a dirt field soccer stadium.

 

http://www.qigongmaster.com/events/2013/03/17/medical-qigong-healing-treatments-in-nyc/index.php

 

Wow Master Zhang is in NYC for a couple weeks right now -- doing medical qigong treatments!

Edited March 5, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[taijistudent]

The link provided has been labeled as Malware by Google. It should be avoided at all cost.

[silas]

>>The link provided has been labeled as Malware by Google. It should be avoided at all cost.

 

I removed the link to the PersonalTao site. The YouTube link of the clip from the Scorpion King should be ok.

[Mokona]

I am researching the topic of 3rd eye. The few sources I've read speak of Buddhist 3rd eye. What is the Taoist equivalent?

 

Really, what method you use depends on the body of the person who mapped the area before you using internal sensing, sort of meditation or further guidance from someone who mapped it before him or her. Either wise you can use any method that has created success for the students who've tried it, and if you get really into a technique and start experiementing further, you may map out more of the energy structures in your head than the person whom you've been studying.

 

Taoist, buddhist - it doesn't matter.

 

I've seen a correlation between NEW(Robert Bruce and methods) and chi kung breating along the body and limbs - many practices overlap each other becuase the energy body doesn't seem to change too very much from person to person.

[ralis]

I have seen a reference to the 'mud ball palace'. Same as the third eye?

[bamboo]

Master Wang explains that there is a horizontal line running through the third eye/celestial eye front to back (xing xian/line of essence) and on this line are located several key points.

 

The first point is between the eyebrows known as the heaven eye point/tian mu xue

 

The next point is three fingers in along the line, this is known as heavens eye/tian mu or upper field/shang tian

 

Further back along the line into the brain is the heavenly mirror, this is set at a 45 degree angle which is used to look down into the body for internal veiwing.

 

hope this is useful

[hydrogen]

The classic taoist book "the secret of golden flower" talks in great details about the "third eye" thought it didn't mention it name directly. Because the "third eye" is more than just an "eye". The book also lists a few confirmation signposts of the development.

 

The samual sagan (sp?) book about third eye is probably more accessible for beginners. The signs in this book are easier to obtain and verify. It advices to taste food through the "third eye", listen to music through the "third eye" and smell through the "third eye".

 

The activation point is between the eye brows. Some taoist book to advice practioners to look through the nose tip all the time.

 

There are some well known excercises to train third eye like candle gazing, star gazing and brow gazing.

 

What you can "see" through the "third eye" depending on your own vibration rate and your karma/virtue. If you have a pure heart, you're more like to see heavenly scene and you're surrounded by angels. If you have a dart heart like the joker, you might see hell. Everyone around you is some sort of demon. You may also see the entity inside you if you subscribe to that belief.

 

IMHO, your meditation can't go too far without a functional "third eye". "watch" your thoughts, "watch" your breath and "see" the illumination are common phrase in meditation books. Without "third eye", how do you "watch" or "see"?

[joeblast]

I have seen a reference to the 'mud ball palace'. Same as the third eye?

that translates as niwan, according to dr yang's ymaa material.

 

as I understand, correlating more strongly with the upper dantien.

 

bones are a semiconductor, so they insulate below a certain threshold of energy. above which, the nature changes and conductivity increases.

 

so, one should focus on the fundamentals and achieve superlative stillness before having any hope of such advancements. investigate, regulate breath mechanics, tame the cranial nerves, focus the spirit at the seat of awareness (drew's find the source of the I-thought) and those couple things alone will convey wonderful benefits.

[silas]

>>The activation point is between the eye brows. Some taoist book to advice practioners to look through the nose tip all the time. There are some well known excercises to train third eye like candle gazing, star gazing and brow gazing.

 

These are all techniques for entering a trance state. Interesting, yes? Although TaoCurrents promotes trance-state meditation, I am not very good at it.

 

>>bones are a semiconductor, so they insulate below a certain threshold of energy. above which, the nature changes and conductivity increases. so, one should focus on the fundamentals and achieve superlative stillness before having any hope of such advancements.

 

A very interesting description too and suggests an alternate to "superlative stillness" by increasing the conductivity of chi channels.

[joeblast]

A very interesting description too and suggests an alternate to "superlative stillness" by increasing the conductivity of chi channels.

apply ohm's law, tension=resistance=lower energy output. superlative stillness is half the equation of increasing the conductivity of chi channels

Edited March 6, 2013 by joeblast

[Shagrath]

I have been doing a lot of third eye training but not in Daoist fashion.

 

 

"The third eye

 

The third eye is a term that’s often used in yogic literature as well as literature that deals with various meditation techniques. It is situated slightly above the eyebrow line, in the funnel of the sixth chakra [5] , however third eye and sixth chakra are not the same. In the case of unsynchronised sixth chakra its colour varies from red, then blue and finally grey colour of Energy, which like rings surround the third eye’s white centre.

Third eye is a milky white radiant ellipsoid structure, positioned within a funnel like structure of the sixth chakra. Viewed from the side, one half of this ellipsoid is on the inside of the forehead while the other half is protruding on the outer side.

Third eye is an energetic structure which, with the help of the brain as a sense of the mind, is created by Consciousness. It is not constantly active, but rather it exists as a potential and as such it is activated on one’s conscious, although more often on an unconscious concentration. Many describe the third eye as a brain tissue. However, it is not situated in the brain itself, and so it can not be that, but it is formed partly through the help of brain.

Meditating for maturing the third eye, the brain wave activity is mildly lowered and evened out compared to a usual level, which is directly in the function of an easier maturing of the mind. Through maturing of the third eye the conscious and the sub-conscious mind are also being harmonised, as well as the thinking and the working ones, and thus it enables for the development of mental vision.

The channel of the third eye

The channel of the third eye is an energetic structure, which constitutes as an extension of the third eye, starting from the forehead and ending in back of the head.

The channel of the third eye is somewhat wider than the sixth chakra, that is the sixth chakra is situated inside of it. It is activated on one’s conscious, although more often on an unconscious concentration; it is mostly milky white or grey in colour, radiating in either case. The channel is not one of the brain’s structures, but it is formed through it.

When meditating for maturing the channel of the third eye, the brain wave activity lowers and harmonises slightly, compared to its usual level. This eases the connection between the neocortex and the limbic part of the brain, which is also an important precondition for an accurate mental vision."

Edited March 6, 2013 by Shagrath

[dawei]

I have been doing a lot of third eye training but not in Daoist fashion.

 

Do/Did you ever get third eye pain? And if so, did you find something which tends to help or avoid it?

[Shagrath]

I have never experienced pain in that area but pressure and heat yes. I did training in this method http://illumina.co.rs/EN/Mental_vision.html Teacher told me that there are two ways of initiate energetic processes: 1) with your mind and 2) with your consciousness. Majority of approaches rely on mental strength and developed focus and with those visualization you force some process while on the other hand if you initiate some process e.g. development of third eye with your consciousness your third eye development won't be forced, there will be any negative sensations or consequence and because the development with go along your inner development and all the different processes will be harmonized.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Shagrath

[dawei]

I have never experienced pain in that area but pressure and heat yes.

 

Does the pressure ever get too high or strong or move about? Just wondering if you ever do anything about it to relieve it.

 

Great link... I'll give it again as your link has a period (.) tacked on and it won't open: http://illumina.co.rs/EN/Mental_vision.html

[林愛偉]

 

 

The real development of shangdantian in Daoism is considered shengong, and there are VERY few who I would trust to give much of an opinion on that!

 

Best,

 

 

Very true, very true.

 

With that practice, things just come naturally.

[Spotless]

My 3rd eye opened when I was 22.

 

I had been practicing Yoga intensely for several years - initially Hatha and then Raja.

I was also involved with a Gurdieff / Ouspensky group.

 

This and many other things happened along the way.

 

I would say that other than meditation and mindfulness in general - one of the most important factors is working on neutrality.

 

Certainly as one begins really working with the clairvoyance and knowing, neutrality becomes increasingly helpful.

 

I was not doing any particular 3rd eye meditation or training when this happened.

 

It is true - you can go inside someone - outside and around - you can easily peer into a distant room. It is not usually crystal clear but you typically see what is useful. You can also see futures and you can change them if you learn to trust them. The more you trust them, the more you see them - and they are very clear images for me.

 

Recently I was asked to look in on a friends father in a coma in Brazil. I could not understand why the three people i saw in the room were wearing gloves and coats (in Brazil) but I clearly saw a young girl and two adults in coats and gloves.

I asked my friend the next day if it was winter in the area of Brazil where the hospital was and he said "no - why do you ask?"

I told him and he said his father had an infection and everyone was required to wear coats and gloves.

 

The 3rd eye is not the experience that you may think it is - it takes time to adjust to it - time to trust it - time to put it together so to speak. Much of it is "knowing" in addition to the seeing. Some things are very clear and vivid but they are not always that way.

 

Do not believe in any set idea regarding how long it will take - if you do - then for you it will be true.

I do not believe in shortcuts and have never sought to use them - do not force any of this.

 

If you begin to see a sort of tunnel that fluxuates on the sides as you meditate - you are closer than you think.

 

I am taking Qi Gong now with a Shaolin Master and it is really great to have a teacher who also has his 3rd eye open.

He is the second teacher that I have had that also had this. (It makes for a whole different conversation).

He does not need to say much because I can see and feel the energy - I got into Qi Gong because I realized I was "doing" Qi Gong but did not know what I was doing exactly. Once I found out what I was doing I wanted to take classes.

Then I found this Shaolin Master that just "happened" to be starting a teaching about 3 minutes from my house just when i started looking for a teacher. For some time I was his only student.

 

Starting Qi Gong after 40 yrs of practice is exciting - and with so many enlightened teachers emerging it is about as good as it gets!

Edited March 7, 2013 by Spotless

[Shagrath]

Does the pressure ever get too high or strong or move about? Just wondering if you ever do anything about it to relieve it.

 

Great link... I'll give it again as your link has a period (.) tacked on and it won't open: http://illumina.co.rs/EN/Mental_vision.html

 

No, it was just normal not alarming pressure. And as my third eye grew stronger the less pressure I felt. Now I feel only some tingling sensation when I activate it.

 

I would suggest that you start with some of those meditations mentioned in link I gave you. And it will balance every process in your third eye development, and plus through that approach you cannot force any energetic structure (third eye, third eye channel, upper dan tien, etc) to function above some limit that you can handle. And I you can see third eye is only one element to more complete picture and mental development. I really trust the author of that text because I worked with him for years and I know that his mental vision is really really precise, and he always verify his vision with ultrasound, x-ray, newly discoveries in field of physics etc., so his findings are not just his view but they are also product of many years researching, teaching other people to produce the same result (mental vision) and comparing his findings with science.

 

His philosophy is "do not believe nor disbelieve but always verify".

Edited March 7, 2013 by Shagrath

[宁]

My 3rd eye opened when I was 22.

 

I had been practicing Yoga intensely for several years - initially Hatha and then Raja.

I was also involved with a Gurdieff / Ouspensky group.

 

This and many other things happened along the way.

 

I would say that other than meditation and mindfulness in general - one of the most important factors is working on neutrality.

 

Certainly as one begins really working with the clairvoyance and knowing, neutrality becomes increasingly helpful.

 

I was not doing any particular 3rd eye meditation or training when this happened.

 

It is true - you can go inside someone - outside and around - you can easily peer into a distant room. It is not usually crystal clear but you typically see what is useful. You can also see futures and you can change them if you learn to trust them. The more you trust them, the more you see them - and they are very clear images for me.

 

Recently I was asked to look in on a friends father in a coma in Brazil. I could not understand why the three people i saw in the room were wearing gloves and coats (in Brazil) but I clearly saw a young girl and two adults in coats and gloves.

I asked my friend the next day if it was winter in the area of Brazil where the hospital was and he said "no - why do you ask?"

I told him and he said his father had an infection and everyone was required to wear coats and gloves.

 

The 3rd eye is not the experience that you may think it is - it takes time to adjust to it - time to trust it - time to put it together so to speak. Much of it is "knowing" in addition to the seeing. Some things are very clear and vivid but they are not always that way.

 

Do not believe in any set idea regarding how long it will take - if you do - then for you it will be true.

I do not believe in shortcuts and have never sought to use them - do not force any of this.

 

If you begin to see a sort of tunnel that fluxuates on the sides as you meditate - you are closer than you think.

 

I am taking Qi Gong now with a Shaolin Master and it is really great to have a teacher who also has his 3rd eye open.

He is the second teacher that I have had that also had this. (It makes for a whole different conversation).

He does not need to say much because I can see and feel the energy - I got into Qi Gong because I realized I was "doing" Qi Gong but did not know what I was doing exactly. Once I found out what I was doing I wanted to take classes.

Then I found this Shaolin Master that just "happened" to be starting a teaching about 3 minutes from my house just when i started looking for a teacher. For some time I was his only student.

 

Starting Qi Gong after 40 yrs of practice is exciting - and with so many enlightened teachers emerging it is about as good as it gets!

nice post!

[Mokona]

.....Then I found this Shaolin Master that just "happened" to be starting a teaching about 3 minutes from my house just when i started looking for a teacher. For some time I was his only student.......

 

Damnit! I tried meetup.com but couldn't find anyone teaching or groups practcing near my home. You lucky dog!

[Spotless]

Damnit! I tried meetup.com but couldn't find anyone teaching or groups practcing near my home. You lucky dog!

 

Their are 8 basic Qi Gong exercises and in my teaching they include breathing which i believe is extremely important to the exercises.

(I mention this aspect because I went to one class that did not include breathing and it was the only class I took from them)

 

I am not certain about what i am about to say but I think it is very likely:

i believe that if you get the 8 basic exercises down and did nothing but them for quite some time - you would gain a great deal.

I am also not sure how much a good teacher is necessary in the initial stages - I did not start this as a "new" student.

 

I was taught something when I was around 18 by a yoga instructor and it rang true for me:

If you learn just the basic exercises (of yoga) and practice them everyday - your practice will unfold all you will need to know.

Most people do not know that Yoga is/was largely meditation - today we see allot of what I call "sport yoga" which is basically

stretching exercises using yoga postures.

 

Meditation does a great many things but many of the habituations we have regarding how we perceive things, take them in, project on to them or identify with them are very hard to break away from. Meditation dissolves this so to speak but it is quite subtle and you can doubt your progress and you can easily stay habituated though it may take another form.

 

Mechanical exercises such as Qi Gong and Yoga postures aid meditation tremendously by "physically" moving energy through ones entire space and regular work like this helps to break down these habituations partly because they consistently bring vitality to areas of "doubt", areas you avoid, areas you protect, areas you do not own.

 

One of the very first hip transplants was on a German Shepard - Joel was Shep's master and was working on this whole transplant thing partly out of his garage. Shep got hit by a car and Joel decided to make a new hip for Shep. In conjunction with the medical school he fashioned the hip and the transplant was done.

Everything went very well and Shep recovered quickly but he maintained a limp - actually he ran around on three legs.

 

Joel said - "he doesn't have a limp - he just thinks he does - we need to find him a bitch in heat and he will forget he has a limp"

Joel took Shep to a breeding facility for a few weeks and he lost his limp.

 

Mechanical means for cleaning out your energy patterns or moving energy into and through areas where it is sluggish such as fasting, breathing, Qi Gong and Yoga postures are very helpful and can trigger big leaps in your practice.

 

Regarding the 3rd eye - working on neutrality - non-judgement - be in the present - quieting the mind - stillness.

These are very important to awakening the 3rd eye - but not for the reasons you may think.

 

Lets say you awaken the 3rd eye - or someone were to do it for you - it will be of little use to you and it may make you go mad if you have not worked on the qualities mentioned above. You cannot "see" from judgement, you cannot "know' from projection, you cannot see "what cannot be", and you cannot see what will make you run from and hide. You will not be able to "be" with a "seeing" - at once you will categorize and in that instant it will be gone.

 

If you manage to get past the above problems - by squeaking past - you will be inclined to land on the wrong shore  - it will seem you have arrived well but you will sit on that same shore for a very long time.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Spotless