Cultivating Chi vs. Jing (beginner questions)

[maharet]

Hi all,

 

New here, and a little confused:) I've been reading literature and browsing the forum, and see conversations about the same/similar meditations and practices, but the energy is sometimes referred to as Chi/Qi, and sometimes as Jing. Now, I understand the difference between the two substances, but not sure which one we're actually working with...

 

For instance, in the Microcosmic Orbit (Small Universe Meditation), are we circulating Chi or Jing?

 

In Bone Breathing, are we cultivating Chi or Jing?

 

In standing/sitting meditations where we feel warmth building up and radiating from the Dan Tien, is that Chi or Jing?

 

Secondly, I read about transforming Jing to Chi to Shen, but recently stumbled on a reference to the reverse - transforming Shen to Chi to Jing. What are the benefits of each, and how do the practices differ?

 

Thanks in advance:)

~M

[Wells]

Hi all,

 

New here, and a little confused:) I've been reading literature and browsing the forum, and see conversations about the same/similar meditations and practices, but the energy is sometimes referred to as Chi/Qi, and sometimes as Jing. Now, I understand the difference between the two substances, but not sure which one we're actually working with...

 

This depends on the system you are training with! In Mind Light Nei Kung, you cultivate your Jing. The energy out of which Jing is produced however is your chi!

 

For instance, in the Microcosmic Orbit (Small Universe Meditation), are we circulating Chi or Jing?

 

In case the flow of energy goes actually along the route THROUGH and not BEHIND your spine, then you would cultivate Jing!

 

In Bone Breathing, are we cultivating Chi or Jing?

 

Jing.

 

In standing/sitting meditations where we feel warmth building up and radiating from the Dan Tien, is that Chi or Jing?

 

The heat results from the conversion of chi to jing. If you compress chi to jing, heat of friction occurs!

 

Secondly, I read about transforming Jing to Chi to Shen, but recently stumbled on a reference to the reverse - transforming Shen to Chi to Jing. What are the benefits of each, and how do the practices differ?

 

Thanks in advance:)

~M

 

In fact, at least according to how these words are used to address kinds of energy in temple style taichi,

you compress/transform/transmute chi into jing into shen!

[Gerard]

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Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard

[taijistudent]

Everything is necessarily Qi since it is fundamental.

 

I would say that Jing as a manifestation of Qi also contains some intention or imagination (imagery). Imagery is one aspect of internal Qi/Jing development. For example, the image of circulating Qi, or the image of manifesting Qi.

 

Many times, words are used to differentiate similarities which have some differences.

[ChiDragon]

For clarification, one must understand the distinction of these three characters before going into deep details about Tai Ji Quan.
Qi(氣)
Jin(勁)
Jing(精)

In Tai Ji Quan, Jin(勁) is a physical strength to be developed from the practice of Tai Ji.

According to the Chinese Taoists, Jing(精) is something to be refined in alchemy.

[Wells]

For clarification, one must understand the distinction of these three characters before going into deep details about Tai Ji Quan.

Qi(氣)

Jin(勁)

Jing(精)

 

In Tai Ji Quan, Jin(勁) is a physical strength to be developed from the practice of Tai Ji.

 

According to the Chinese Taoists, Jing(精) is something to be refined in alchemy.

 

 

 

 

 

What most people don't understand is that the transfer of power in a taichi style that is not completely devoid of real "Fajin"(what most are!) is in fact the transfer of refined essence!

 

Therefore Fajin = Fajing!

 

I hope I could clear up this riddle or misundestanding for all those people who are not training in a Taichi system which "has it"!

 

Jing = essence is the most dense and materialized form of chi...and therefore it can affect matter directly like a kinetic force !

 

Most Taichi schools only use Li, pure physical force which is produced by the matter and therefore biomechanics of their body: Muscles, tendons and the rest of their locomotor system.

Their distinction of "muscular" force = Li and "Tendon Force" = Jin is a complete joke! Everybody who knows a little bit about biology knows that muscles and tendons are connected and therefore always work at the same time!

 

If you want to "load up" the tendons with force, the muscles have to provide tension and resistence for this to work! Therefore all of this people are fooling themselves in that matter because they don't have biomechanical knowledge or they have a strong belief that disables their critical thinking!

Edited March 3, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Kasuku]

Liao says you can cultivate your chi all you want, but you'll never reach jing, which is condensed chi. Makes sense.. you'll know all these guys who say their dantien is like a beach ball... this just means theres is a fog of chi round that area and its meaningless. I mean just think about why the mo pai has you compress the chi into your dantien untill literally no more can fit. They make it hard. So then you get internal power because the chi has been burned, redesigned.

[Kasuku]

Well jing also means essence, sexual energy (generative force) produced by the kidneys... one also sublimates this jing to transform it into chi (hence the 100 days)

 

however jing (jin) is internal power

[Kasuku]

Dorian could you explain more about the chi being flowing inside your spine... if you condense the chi (or whatever is already flowing in the small universe around the spine), can you make this happen

[taijistudent]

It is difficult to describe the differences between the different type of forces (e.g. muscle vs.Peng Jin), but I might be able to via analogy.

 

Peng jin is a feeling of expanding outwardly as if one was a balloon. It is fundamental, because the round balloon structure is the essence of the Taiji point of view: e.g. warding off using tangential motion that flows with the force, forces compressing and then bouncing off, an elastic, round defensive boundary, etc. One is making oneself into a balloon with all of the advantages. Elasticity can be seen in the difference between the skin of an elderly person who no longer has much Qi (the skin is sagging) and the skin of a baby which is very healthy and elastic.

 

Lack of Peng Jin would be analogous to a balloon with no air in it. Rather limp. This would be the normal relaxed state between breadths if someone lacked vital qi, for example elderly people. Sometimes, while practicing push hands, I will notice that my partner will be attempting to be very relaxed and spaghetti-like. This would be an example of practicing without Peng Jin.

 

Li, or muscle force is stiff and hard. It can be quite effective if one is very big, strong, or fast. It is perfectly reasonable to develop skills using Li, but the philosophical problem is that a person who is lighter and smaller Li skills will inevitably be unable to deal with the much larger force, thus will always be at a disadvantage.

 

Hence, the Taiji idea that the way for a smaller person to deal with larger, overwhelming forces is by developing an elastic, balloon-like structure that spins with force (warding off) as well as having the ability to return forces (as a ball might be pushed back when pushed down in water). This concept was very well demonstrated in Jet Li's Tai Chi Master movie. For one to develop this balloon-like capability, one must develop the elastic force call Peng Jin. Peng Jin can be used for Fajin since it allows for the compression and emission of energy (as a ball might do after being squeezed), but Fajin is just one of the manifestations. The primary goal is to develop that ball like, spiraling feeling that can deal with any type of oncoming.

 

Peng Jin does not come automatically after X years of practice. It comes when it comes and is primarily a function of the Yi (creative Mind). That is why I would recommend to be relaxed when practiced (but not limp), and to use the Yi to form intention of the flow of Qi in the body. The practice of whole body breathing in a relaxed but vital stance assists in the development. If someone wants it very badly it will not come. The desire creates too much tension in the body and thus is counterproductive. Best to just practice without expectations. There is no guarantee that this will be the correct path for everyone, but since I have successfully trained at least some people in this manner, I feel it is reasonable path for some.

Edited March 3, 2013 by taijistudent

[taijistudent]

Liao says you can cultivate your chi all you want, but you'll never reach jing, which is condensed chi. Makes sense.. you'll know all these guys who say their dantien is like a beach ball... this just means theres is a fog of chi round that area and its meaningless. I mean just think about why the mo pai has you compress the chi into your dantien untill literally no more can fit. They make it hard. So then you get internal power because the chi has been burned, redesigned.

It is difficult to explain. There is no fog around someone. It is more like your body is expanded as if air is being used to fill it.

 

Most of the Qigong exercises are designed to expand the sinews, muscles, tissues, etc. so that breadth (energy) can flow into the new spaces. Thus making the body more flexible, balloon like structure. It has structure (it is not limp) but it is not hard either. It is elastic so that it can ward off or give back force by using the opponents force. It is the essence of the Taiji philosophy. But I do not like talking about this too much because students begin to search for it, and the search (desire) becomes a barrier and is counter productive. It is enough to know that it exists (there is nothing at all supernatural about it) and it comes when it comes.

 

I would also like to say that different teachers have different methods and explain the concepts using different words. It is thus helpful to understand the fundamental concepts.

Edited March 3, 2013 by taijistudent

[Kasuku]

not fog around someone... i mean spread out chi in the dantien area, that hasn't been compressed/condensed

[Wells]

Dorian could you explain more about the chi being flowing inside your spine... if you condense the chi (or whatever is already flowing in the small universe around the spine), can you make this happen

 

To condense chi into or force it through bone seems to transform it into Jing, like the condensing of chi into tantien.

 

There is obviously a route for the MCO through (water path) and one around the spine (fire path) according to Yang Jwing-Ming!

Edited March 3, 2013 by Dorian Black

[taijistudent]

not fog around someone... i mean spread out chi in the dantien area, that hasn't been compressed/condensed

I am not sure I am understanding your question correctly, so forgive me if I am not responding well.

 

The Qi that is developed in the Dantien through practice should feel quite compressed. When I was younger, it felt quite hard (it is still quite dense). But while compressed, it is still quite elastic. I would say the difference would be like the difference between a rock (muscle density) vs. that of a fresh tennis ball. In Taiji, one is developing the compressed by elastic state of energy.

 

I hope this answers your question.

Edited March 3, 2013 by taijistudent