Strident System Sellers and Delicious Irony

[GrandmasterP]

I don't come here much anymore.

Missing you all loads but enough was almost enough.

The endless round of self promoting and unpaid for advertisements from patent system sellers with no interest in anyone or anything beyond promoting their dubious paths to glory and claimed cultivation success.

Those shysters and their sorry disciples ever eager to monster any nay sayer foolish enough to say nay.

There's a delicious irony in all and everything those systems sellers say and do.

"Buy into MY product , it's what works. Anything else is just not as good. My patent system is just that much better. Click on the payment button NOW to find out how.

The essence of the Tao , to covet nothing, and to know oneself as being 'nowhere', is to be awake as never before.

Poor, poor; sleepy system sellers.

Keep you hands on your purses and wallets chums, they just aint worth it.

:-)

[adept]

Well said.

BUT, there are some wonderful, helpful people here, who have no interest in selling you their system. These are the people whose posts I like to read.

Separate the wheat from the chaff, and you have a good bunch of folks. It ain't all bad.

[Marblehead]

I feel bound to post here.

 

I arrived in the Deep South (Bible Belt) of the US for my first duty assignment at Fort Gordon (Augusta), Georgia in 1964. Sunday morning radio was nothing but the preachers selling salvation. Yes, you first had to send in $50 and then they would pray for your soul. Eternal salvation!!! For only $50. And those preachers became very wealthy.

 

Should I make value judgements here? Only for myself. (They didn't get any of my money.)

 

But there are those who need stuff like this in their life. Shall I judge this as "sad"? Sure, I can do that. But only for myself. Perhaps the ones who buy into it needed that experience in their life at the time. Maybe it even helped them in one way or another.

 

 

Here at TaoBums we have members recommending this or that. I like to think that they believe they are really trying to help others who have a situation they have yet to find a way of dealing with. If the recommendations are don't in open honesty is it fair for us to say they shouldn't be doing it? Again, we have value judgements. We can judge only for ourself - what is best for us. It is up to others to judge what is best for themselves.

 

 

I have been here at TaoBums for some time. I have nothing to sell. I am not in need therefore I am not looking for anything to buy. I am here to share my opinions and thoughts about living and life in general. I hope that I have offered something useful to someone who might have read one of my posts. I am here to learn as well. And I have learned. ANd I thank all those who have offered constructive guidance for me and others.

 

I think it is wrong to concentrate on one single group of members here and present them as something negative. Sure, there might be some who are interested only in getting others to buy their product. But I think it is unfair to place them all in a single basket.

 

There are many threads here on TaoBums that I totally ignore. That is the beauty of free will. I chose to stay on the positive side of life. Yeah, I do sometimes step into the negative but I always regret having done so.

 

I enjoy talking about Taoist Philosophy in an environment that is virtually uncensored. And it is true that we are virtually uncensored in the threads that are associated with Taoist Philosophy. I have never been warned by any moderator for calling bullshit on anyone who was presenting false information.

 

This is really a wonderful board to discuss Taoism as well as other belief systems. But we all should keep in mind that everything we see on the internet is not necessarily true. Be a skeptic! But don't forget to enjoy yourself! And don't spend so much time concentrating on what we have determined as negative but rather concentrate on the positive.

 

That ends the lecture for today. There will be a test tomorrow.

[GrandmasterP]

Totally agree both, and it's guys like yourselves who keep me coming back.

Thank you.

[Apech]

I think maybe you're reading a different board to me ... or maybe I just don't bother with that stuff. Sure some people promote their stuff and other peoples but it seems to me its just take it or leave it. Mostly its just us discussing things ... I don't see the problem really.

 

Some of what is for sale is laughable anyway ... but I think we should just keep a good sense of humour and carry on ... stay happy ... things come and go ...

[C T]

I feel bound to post here.

 

...calling bullshit on anyone who was presenting false information.

Would it be ok to assume that Grandmaster P feels the same expressed sentiment, MH? We all have our own biases on what constitutes 'false info'.

 

I must input that even in Buddhist centres now, there is an ever-increasing cost for teachings and associated aids like books, commentaries, CDs, videos, empowerments and what not. Its something i have an issue with (my own struggle i know) which is why i have stepped off the buddhist grid altogether, in the sense that i do not mingle with the in-crowd anymore. These folks have plenty of spare cash and can afford to follow teachers all over Europe... more power to them, but in my view, its not really helpful.

 

I'm quite comfortable going it alone. I do make a good living from my business, but i'd rather choose to discreetly share some of it with those who could genuinely benefit from a bit of assistance. There are people who are sincerely struggling, and it feels righter to help this sector of people than to direct more money into 'spiritual' organizations when most are already thriving as it is.

 

I have, sometime in the past, been fairly 'inside' one of these groups, and can vouch that they rake in silly amounts of donations every month, and halve as much from the courses they run. Yes, a good chunk goes back into maintaining the centres (all over the world!!) and staffing (literally hundreds under the payroll) but one wonders where the rest of the money go?

 

Its quite puzzling when a week of retreat with spiritual teachings begin to cost attendees the equivalent of a month's wages (or more, for some). To me, this is overwhelming evidence of, dare i say, greed.

 

In conclusion, i would have to agree with the OP that its not right to be charging people over and over for teachings which is supposed to lead one back to the essence, which is a peaceful mind and a loving heart. Naturally, those who feel the urge to pay to purchase knowledge on peace, love and optimal health can do as they please, but at the end of the day, profound peace and genuine affection for self (which includes physical health and well-being) and others are rewards in themselves, so, i have to ask whether it really makes sense to pay a third party to find out how to reward oneself with such fundamental wisdoms?

 

I think the problem with those who have the ability to spend money and who are jaded by material pursuits have somehow just swapped ideologies. Nothing has really changed. People find it hard to believe that the inner life can be accessed freely, and along the way, have lost the focus, hence, in order to recover it, they think they have to pay someone (or lineage) to tell them that are indeed capable of becoming more than what they are now. More could mean all sorts of things that people desire on the spiritual level.

 

Something to ponder over certainly.

[Flolfolil]

one of my methods of energy cultivation works best for me, but in doing that it can be too powerful at times. Also i haven't encountered any moral teaching to go with it other than "be super happy" so i am seeing the need to put all of that bliss into perspective and "emptiness" (whatever that is. i just read books, i'm trying. lol)

[Marblehead]

Would it be ok to assume that Grandmaster P feels the same expressed sentiment, MH? We all have our own biases on what constitutes 'false info'.

Oh, absolutely. I speak only for myself. I could never speak from Grandmaster's point of view. I just think it is important to view as many sides of a concept as possible so that we, the individual, has a better chance of making our own decision based on our own needs.

 

And I agree with you in that the training aids are becoming more expensive and one shouldn't expect to be getting something for nothing.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Marblehead

[ralis]

Would it be ok to assume that Grandmaster P feels the same expressed sentiment, MH? We all have our own biases on what constitutes 'false info'.

 

I must input that even in Buddhist centres now, there is an ever-increasing cost for teachings and associated aids like books, commentaries, CDs, videos, empowerments and what not. Its something i have an issue with (my own struggle i know) which is why i have stepped off the buddhist grid altogether, in the sense that i do not mingle with the in-crowd anymore. These folks have plenty of spare cash and can afford to follow teachers all over Europe... more power to them, but in my view, its not really helpful.

 

I'm quite comfortable going it alone. I do make a good living from my business, but i'd rather choose to discreetly share some of it with those who could genuinely benefit from a bit of assistance. There are people who are sincerely struggling, and it feels righter to help this sector of people than to direct more money into 'spiritual' organizations when most are already thriving as it is.

 

I have, sometime in the past, been fairly 'inside' one of these groups, and can vouch that they rake in silly amounts of donations every month, and halve as much from the courses they run. Yes, a good chunk goes back into maintaining the centres (all over the world!!) and staffing (literally hundreds under the payroll) but one wonders where the rest of the money go?

 

Its quite puzzling when a week of retreat with spiritual teachings begin to cost attendees the equivalent of a month's wages (or more, for some). To me, this is overwhelming evidence of, dare i say, greed.

 

In conclusion, i would have to agree with the OP that its not right to be charging people over and over for teachings which is supposed to lead one back to the essence, which is a peaceful mind and a loving heart. Naturally, those who feel the urge to pay to purchase knowledge on peace, love and optimal health can do as they please, but at the end of the day, profound peace and genuine affection for self (which includes physical health and well-being) and others are rewards in themselves, so, i have to ask whether it really makes sense to pay a third party to find out how to reward oneself with such fundamental wisdoms?

 

I think the problem with those who have the ability to spend money and who are jaded by material pursuits have somehow just swapped ideologies. Nothing has really changed. People find it hard to believe that the inner life can be accessed freely, and along the way, have lost the focus, hence, in order to recover it, they think they have to pay someone (or lineage) to tell them that are indeed capable of becoming more than what they are now. More could mean all sorts of things that people desire on the spiritual level.

 

Something to ponder over certainly.

 

 

A number of years ago, Gangteng Tulku gave a month long retreat in Crestone Colorado. The cost was 3,000.00 which included camping outside (May is very cold) and 3 meals/day. I inquired as to why the high cost and I was told that Gangteng Tulku needed a stage complete with throne and all accouterments. The whole setup was outside in very cold weather. Plus the sponsors wanted to give him a big check! Obviously I didn't attend given the cost and leaving my business unattended for 1 month. That is one reason among many that I have stopped my association with the Tibetan Buddhist community.

 

One other thought is the Tsegyalgar community started by Namkhai Norbu. Back in the early 90's when a number of teaching groups were established, he sent out a letter that the group community structure was too large and needed to be dissolved. That never happened. Today there are centers worldwide and yearly membership fees are 150.00. If I want to order a text or DVD's etc. from the center in Massachusetts, I have to pay the 150.00 membership fee. That is not right!

Edited March 3, 2013 by ralis

[Jetsun]

 

 

Would it be ok to assume that Grandmaster P feels the same expressed sentiment, MH? We all have our own biases on what constitutes 'false info'.

 

I must input that even in Buddhist centres now, there is an ever-increasing cost for teachings and associated aids like books, commentaries, CDs, videos, empowerments and what not. Its something i have an issue with (my own struggle i know) which is why i have stepped off the buddhist grid altogether, in the sense that i do not mingle with the in-crowd anymore. These folks have plenty of spare cash and can afford to follow teachers all over Europe... more power to them, but in my view, its not really helpful.

 

I'm quite comfortable going it alone. I do make a good living from my business, but i'd rather choose to discreetly share some of it with those who could genuinely benefit from a bit of assistance. There are people who are sincerely struggling, and it feels righter to help this sector of people than to direct more money into 'spiritual' organizations when most are already thriving as it is.

 

I have, sometime in the past, been fairly 'inside' one of these groups, and can vouch that they rake in silly amounts of donations every month, and halve as much from the courses they run. Yes, a good chunk goes back into maintaining the centres (all over the world!!) and staffing (literally hundreds under the payroll) but one wonders where the rest of the money go?

 

Its quite puzzling when a week of retreat with spiritual teachings begin to cost attendees the equivalent of a month's wages (or more, for some). To me, this is overwhelming evidence of, dare i say, greed.

 

In conclusion, i would have to agree with the OP that its not right to be charging people over and over for teachings which is supposed to lead one back to the essence, which is a peaceful mind and a loving heart. Naturally, those who feel the urge to pay to purchase knowledge on peace, love and optimal health can do as they please, but at the end of the day, profound peace and genuine affection for self (which includes physical health and well-being) and others are rewards in themselves, so, i have to ask whether it really makes sense to pay a third party to find out how to reward oneself with such fundamental wisdoms?

 

I think the problem with those who have the ability to spend money and who are jaded by material pursuits have somehow just swapped ideologies. Nothing has really changed. People find it hard to believe that the inner life can be accessed freely, and along the way, have lost the focus, hence, in order to recover it, they think they have to pay someone (or lineage) to tell them that are indeed capable of becoming more than what they are now. More could mean all sorts of things that people desire on the spiritual level.

 

Something to ponder over certainly.

There are certain advantages of these celebrity Buddhist teachers in that even my local book shop stocks their books so they are making some valuable material more publicly available even if they are not saying anything new. There are some different teachers around though, for example just living near me there is a Lama called Ato Rinpoche who has a Tibetan lineage comparable to anyone else out there so he could have created a big following and published many books making a lot of money, but he chose to go and work as a nurse in the local psychiatric hospital and if you know this place it won't be the most pleasant place to work as there will be a lot of old senile people as well as seriously ill people and would teach a small Sangha on the weekend. So there are different groups and teachers around, but really Western Buddhism is still a big experiment which still may not amount to much. Edited March 4, 2013 by Jetsun

[Apech]

I don't think this site is too bad you just have to filter a few things out, just ignore some threads like the advertising Flying Phoenix one and ignore some individuals like the guy who is being paid to promote Gary Clyman and you can get ad block to block the block the banners.

 

 

There are certain advantages of these celebrity Buddhist teachers in that even my local book shop stocks their books so they are making some valuable material more publicly available even if they are not saying anything new. There are some different teachers around though, for example just living near me there is a Lama called Ato Rinpoche who has a Tibetan lineage comparable to anyone else out there so he could have created a big following and published many books making a lot of money, but he chose to go and work as a nurse in the local psychiatric hospital and if you know this place it won't be the most pleasant place to work as there will be a lot of old senile people as well as seriously ill people and would teach a small Sangha on the weekend. So there are different groups and teachers around, but really Western Buddhism is still a big experiment which still may not amount to much.

 

I took refuge with Ato Rinpoche in 1997 ... he is fantastic no doubt.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Apech

[skydog]

edit: Not because I said anything offensive to anyone, but because I dont have a real opinion either way

Edited March 3, 2013 by sinansencer

[Dainin]

You can't control what others think, say, or do. However, you can control how you react to it.