Dzogchen Teachings

[RongzomFan]

I understand some of yous wanting to veer off into email discussions... at the same time, I do appreciate the sharings. I hope you stick around, I'm learning from your conversation. So thankyou.

 

Lets contrast the mods on this forum, with the mods elsewhere.

 

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8879&p=110644#p110620

[Jax]

Hi Jax,

 

How is that different? Or, what do you mean by "The progression of profound depth of Buddhahood is infinite"? What is progression in your concept?

 

Thanks again, Jeff

Buddhahood evolves to omniscience. But that progression is not dependent on the removal of obscurations. Like a flower brieaks through the earth. That's Enlightenment, Buddhahood. Now the Buddha plant can grow and fully unfold and display its fruit, attributes.

[RongzomFan]

Jax,

 

You are being very helpful with clearing some misunderstandings.

 

Thank you

 

 

In my opinion, I have yet to see Jax post something factually accurate.

 

In my opinion, he is starting to rip off Malcolm a little bit, ever since Dharma Wheel.

Edited March 7, 2013 by alwayson

[ralis]

I'm not convinced. Honestly, I think you have just got better at couching your descriptions in terminology you've read elsewhere; you've slipped up a couple times.

 

 

Would you elaborate?

[Jax]

How does this fit into the teaching of the sadhadhatu? [since everything down to the smallest of sub-atomic particles are included therein.]

 

 

 

How are you defining 'Rainbow Body' in this context?

The Buddha needs an update... there are no particles. Actually the theory of Abidharma got into the same problem when they attempted to see the skandhas as substantitive, which is what the Prajnaparamita was aiming to correct.

[Jeff]

Buddhahood evolves to omniscience. But that progression is not dependent on the removal of obscurations. Like a flower brieaks through the earth. That's Enlightenment, Buddhahood. Now the Buddha plant can grow and fully unfold and display its fruit, attributes.

 

Hi Jax,

 

Maybe we just have a different connotation to the word "obstruction". If something has yet to unfold, it is still obscured...

 

Best wishes, Jeff

[Mandrake]

SJ:

You talking about the one that happened in 2012? Damn, I had no idea that many people attended that. Obviously, I'm just repeating what I heard. Was it the whole shebang of thogal teachings?

 

Since you brought up that number of people who attended, then why would we need Jax other than for the convenience of learning those techniques? Has the Dzogchen Community released any new texts related to those teachings?

From what I heard, it was; amazing isn't it! But also, it was apparently a once only retreat. And no, no texts.

 

All the best,

Mandrake

[Jax]

I'm not convinced. Honestly, I think you have just got better at couching your descriptions in terminology you've read elsewhere; you've slipped up a couple times.

Not sure what you are talking about... The Dzogchen view is not Theravadin. At the Sambhogakaya level, you appear as a deity. Your body is the subtle Light Body. Awareness is your consciousness. It is a thigle as yeshe or rigpa. Rigpa is a thigle of pure awareness that resides in the head. When you die, you as "rigpa" leave through the eyes. This the Sambhogakaya level.

 

At Dharmakaya all that is known is Ultimate Knowing Emptiness. The emtpy quality is aware.But the empty knowing quality is also form. The entire mandala is self-known. This is Dzogchen 101. What is the continuum of a Buddha? What is an embodied Buddha who remembers past and future lives? If rigpa is "knowledge", who or what has that knowledge? These are important questions to work through. Theravadin teachings don't have good answers for them.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Jax

[Jax]

My god, you're like the Oprah of Dzogchen teachings!

In my best dreams!

[Jax]

The sadhadhatu can also be applied to dzogchen i.e. wisdom and five lights.

The five lights are outside of D.O. They are spontaneous... permanent attributes of Buddha Mind.

[RongzomFan]

I am waiting for Pero to join in. I sent him a PM.

[Jax]

Debunked translation. Next.

The text has not been debunked. No one has that authority...

[Jeff]

I am waiting for Pero to join in. I sent him a PM.

 

That's good. I have missed him.

[ralis]

Yes actually someone does have the authority. A Nyingma Lama.

 

 

It would be nice to have a civil conversation with Jax. Posting hearsay and appealing to an unknown authority does not in anyway validate the above.

[Jax]

Hi Jax,

 

Maybe we just have a different connotation to the word "obstruction". If something has yet to unfold, it is still obscured...

 

Best wishes, Jeff

Not true! If a plant is has yet to reveal its fruit fully, nothing is "obstructing" the fruit from maturing.

 

bump

Yes, they were highly one-sided and biased...

[Jax]

 

I have yet to see Jax post something factually accurate.

 

He is starting to rip off Malcolm a little bit, ever since Dharma Wheel.

What is not factually accurate? I do my best... What are you refering to?

[RongzomFan]

Yes, they were highly one-sided and biased...

 

Explain how they were biased?

 

They gave you a fair shot. When you are proven wrong repeatedly you lose you temper, and then you get banned.

 

I was warned about you by Pero before even Dharma Wheel existed.

[Jax]

How does this fit into the teaching of the sadhadhatu? [since everything down to the smallest of sub-atomic particles are included therein.]

 

 

 

How are you defining 'Rainbow Body' in this context?

The dissolution of the physical body... Like Thogal.

[Jax]

Explain how they were biased?

 

They gave you a fair shot. When you are proven wrong repeatedly you lose you temper, and then you get banned.

 

I was warned about you by Pero before even Dharma Wheel existed.

No they didn't give me a fair shot at all. Malcolm was favored... He manipulated them and then apologized to me. You have it completely wrong. Malcolm was correct, the clique there were horrendous. I won't discuss that any more. Too many assholes there to spend time justifying my views. Bring the assholes here to this thread... then adios.

[RongzomFan]

It would be nice to have a civil conversation with Jax. Posting hearsay and appealing to an unknown authority does not in anyway validate the above.

 

 

Even the translators apologized for the translation. But believe what you want ralis. I'm tired of going against this Mara forum.

[Jax]

Care to elaborate on the meaning of this, Jax?

Well if you want the essence of Dzogchen, there you have it. That's all you need.

[RongzomFan]

No they didn't give me a fair shot at all. Malcolm was favored... He manipulated them and then apologized to me. You have it completely wrong. Malcolm was correct, the clique there were horrendous. I won't discuss that any more. Too many assholes there to spend time justifying my views. Bring the assholes here to this thread... then adios.

 

 

And what about before Malcolm even heard of you on Dharma Wheel?

 

You were known before then.

[ralis]

Even the translators apologized for the translation. But believe what you want ralis. I'm tired of going against this Mara forum.

 

 

Why not say so in the first place. I don't read minds very well. Link for the apology?

[Jax]

Even the translators apologized for the translation. But believe what you want ralis. I'm tired of going against this Mara forum.

Oh, bull... Post the apology. The text and word translations look perfectly fine in the text that I quoted. What phrase in the text that I posted do you disagree with? Which word? Let me guess.... hmmmmmmmmmm maybe....... hmmmm AWARENESS for Rigpa!!!! Awareness has been used by almost all Tibetan teachers who speak excellent English. The meaning is the point, not the word. Where you see the word "awareness" just substitute rigpa. No big deal! What arrogance!

[Jax]

And what about before Malcolm even heard of you on Dharma Wheel?

 

You were known before then.

Yes, the fundamentalist taliban had a huge problem with my teaching outside the traditions. Who cares? I owe no explanations to anyone. If people don't like what I say or teach they can ignore me. I don't know of one person over the many years that I have been teaching who hasn't told me that they felt benefit from having participated. I am not going to argue with you about myself and what I do with you. If you want to discuss Dharma in a positive manner... please do.