Dzogchen Teachings

[teknix]

Hey Stimpy,

 

You quoted "The true nature is not created by the Guru and not by the pupil.", but who said that?

 

I agree with this statement in a more technical manner. The way things are is the null hypothesis and and anytime you deviate from the null hypothesis you are creating an alternative hypothesis that would require evidence to determine how likely that claim is.

Edited March 8, 2013 by teknix

[RongzomFan]

That is a poor argument imo, if you are unable to further explain your position than don't post anything? It seems like the intention of the above post is more geared towards being hurtful than helpful, imo.

 

 

Whats more to explain? The tantric systems are independent. If you disagree with that, then thats your problem.

[teknix]

I don't have a problem, and guess who gets to decide that? *Hint* It is not you.

 

What you think and what is, seem to be separate from that perspective, imo.

 

I presonally think we can bridge the gaps between teachings, only once we can relinquish the hold of the perpetuated traditions, that have been perpetuated in a lot of ignorance.

Edited March 8, 2013 by teknix

[idiot_stimpy]

Hey Stimpy,

 

You quoted "The true nature is not created by the Guru and not by the pupil.", but who said that?

 

I agree with this statement in a more technical manner. The way things are is the null hypothesis and and anytime you deviate from the null hypothesis you are creating an alternative hypothesis that would require evidence to determine how likely that claim is.

 

It is an extract from the Youtube video. It is accredited to Tilopa.

[teknix]

Cool, thanks.

[teknix]

Whats more to explain? The tantric systems are independent. If you disagree with that, then thats your problem.

 

Do you think that tradition should be exempt from being a possible attachement?

[teknix]

I could say alot about the "rainbow body" theories etc. But its pointless chatter... no one here will realize the rainbow body in this life. Trekchod realization is just as good. Any remainder dissolves in the bardo. So "RELAX"...

 

How can you be so sure? Or is the intention to not consider that is which is beyond ones capabilities?

Edited March 8, 2013 by teknix

[Jax]

Hi Jax,

 

Thanks for the above. In your description of the "moment"... Is "existence" the same? Just with the dropping of the conceptualizing mind?

 

Thanks, Jeff

Hey Jeff!

 

Norbu calls Rigpa "instant presence". "Instant Presence" is not something we accomplish. "Instant Presence" is simply this moment fuly embodied knowingly. When this moment is fully known, the wisdom of this moment is self-known, as it is an inseparable aspect of this moment. Rigpa is never lacking in any moment, when recognized as having always been here timelessly. Rigpa IS the moment when fully known as is. Hence nothing obscures rigpa. Each moment is its pure display. How can waves obscure the ocean, no matter their shape, size, duration or color?

[RongzomFan]

Do you think that tradition should be exempt from being a possible attachement?

 

 

Of course. Naropa had Hindu students etc. There are many christian, jewish Dzogchenpas.

 

Thats why tantric systems are independent. Its not based on an intellectual view.

Edited March 8, 2013 by alwayson

[ralis]

Hey Jeff!

 

Norbu calls Rigpa "instant presence". "Instant Presence" is not something we accomplish. "Instant Presence" is simply this moment fuly embodied knowingly. When this moment is fully known, the wisdom of this moment is self-known, as it is an inseparable aspect of this moment. Rigpa is never lacking in any moment, when recognized as having always been here timelessly. Rigpa IS the moment when fully known as is. Hence nothing obscures rigpa. Each moment is its pure display. How can waves obscure the ocean, no matter their shape, size, duration or color?

 

In whatever one is doing in the moment?

[teknix]

Of course. Naropa had Hindu students etc. There are many christian, jewish Dzogchenpas.

 

Thats why tantric systems are independent. Its not based on an intellectual view.

 

IMO, that is condoning belief over knowing.

[Jax]

How can you be so sure? Or is the intention to not consider that is which is beyond ones capabilities?

Sure of what? Well, Tenzin Wangyal publicly said that less than 1% of students will reach enlightenment in this life. Most Lamas haven't, so the odds are not looking so good... Just my opinion. Get the trekchod down. What happens to the body doesn't make any difference at all. You can purify the remaining "bagchags" in the bardo by remaining in the Clear Light Dharmakaya state of recognition as "kadag".

[teknix]

In whatever one is doing in the moment?

 

Now is forever. It is beyond thought and more akin to experience, imo.

 

For you to ever obtain anything there has to first be a thought of you.

Edited March 8, 2013 by teknix

[teknix]

Sure of what? Well, Tenzin Wangyal publicly said that less than 1% of students will reach enlightenment in this life. Most Lamas haven't, so the odds are not looking so good... Just my opinion. Get the trekchod down. What happens to the body doesn't make any difference at all. You can purify the remaining "bagchags" in the bardo by remaining in the Clear Light Dharmakaya state of recognition as "kadag".

 

I probably am confused by the rainbow body then. I just considered it to the the manual control of the autonomous system, or activating the energy centers/organs with consciousness of them.

Edited March 8, 2013 by teknix

[Jax]

Of course. Naropa had Hindu students etc. There are many christian, jewish Dzogchenpas.

 

Thats why tantric systems are independent. Its not based on an intellectual view.

Tantric systems are not "independent". Buddhist Tantra is grounded in the lower yanas perspectives of emptiness, samaya, bodhicitta, Buddhist yidams, acquiring virtue... etc. Tantra requires refuge and all the preliminaries. Original Dzogchen is "independent" but not Tantra.

"

[Jax]

I probably am confused by the rainbow body then. I just considered it to the the manual control of the autonomous system, or activating the energy centers/organs with consciousness of them.

Yes, you are just not educated on the topic. Read "Heart Drops of the Dharmakaya" by Shardza Rinpoche, who attained rainbow body. You find a free download on the net.

[teknix]

Maybe you could explain it?

[Jax]

In whatever one is doing in the moment?

Each moment is absolutely perfect, the display of Kuntuzangpo, just as it appears. That's why there is nothing to do in "Dzogchen". Its already complete. You just need to "see" it. That's what the direct introduction does... "shows you this".

[teknix]

Is metta a part of the rainbow body or inner fire?

[Jax]

Maybe you could explain it?

No thank you... You can do some work and then I can clarify. Ok?

[Jeff]

Hey Jeff!

 

Norbu calls Rigpa "instant presence". "Instant Presence" is not something we accomplish. "Instant Presence" is simply this moment fuly embodied knowingly. When this moment is fully known, the wisdom of this moment is self-known, as it is an inseparable aspect of this moment. Rigpa is never lacking in any moment, when recognized as having always been here timelessly. Rigpa IS the moment when fully known as is. Hence nothing obscures rigpa. Each moment is its pure display. How can waves obscure the ocean, no matter their shape, size, duration or color?

 

Hi Jax,

 

Thanks, but your statement above did not answer/respond to my question. In your experience with "instant presence"... Does the world (or trees and everything) appear/feel the same as without "instant presence"? Do you experience some greater connection (or oneness) or is it just the loss of conceptualizing mind?

 

Best, Jeff

[Jax]

Is metta a part of the rainbow body or inner fire?

Neither... not relevant at all in these contexts...

[teknix]

Yes, you are just not educated on the topic. Read "Heart Drops of the Dharmakaya" by Shardza Rinpoche, who attained rainbow body. You find a free download on the net.

 

Also, how do you know the pressuposition is incorrect, if there is not direct experience?

 

Why do you think the rainbow body was something obtained or something to be obtained?

Edited March 8, 2013 by teknix

[Jax]

Hi Jax,

 

Thanks, but your statement above did not answer/respond to my question. In your experience with "instant presence"... Does the world (or trees and everything) appear/feel the same as without "instant presence"? Do you experience some greater connection (or oneness) or is it just the loss of conceptualizing mind?

 

Best, Jeff

You see the totality as a transparent hologram... yet in full 3D. Transparency or "Zangthal" is a buzz word, a hallmark of instant presence. The mind has transformed into Clear Light. Its like pouring clear water into clear water... transparency upon transparency.

[Jax]

Also, how do you know the pressuposition is incorrect, if there is not direct experience?

 

Why do you think the rainbow body was something obtained or something to be obtained?

The rainbow body is the effect of the depth of training. If you don't finish here, you can in the bardo. No big deal.