Why Taoism?

[LCH]

Forgive me if this topic has been discussed before, and if so, I encourage someone to point me to the thread....

 

In my reality, one of the reasons to ask this question is to keep my active mind at bay. The pursuit of "enigmatic" concepts veiled in allegory and symbolism which offer ambiguous "rewards" like "enlightenment", "sagehood", etc. is a slippery endeavor. Not to mention, I desire no such labels. I personally rather just increase my perceptive awareness as much as I can while I am here "in body". I have little exposure to the conditioned belief in re-incarnation, and frankly, I am would like to reach "escape velocity" in this incarnation.

 

Attaining greater states of awareness is certainly about non-doing, but in a world that revolves around "doing", the conditioning can get pretty thick, and thus the question "what the heck am I doing?!" haha!

 

I am curious as to why people pursue "Taoism"?

 

What is it that keeps people pursuing something that very much contradicts "conventional wisdom"?

 

I will say I am drawn to Taoism for its inherent simplicity, despite how complex my mind would like to make it.

 

I am drawn to Taoism because it helps me stay "grounded" in a world that appears to the conscious mind to be rather ass-backward.

 

I recognize that the more that I immerse myself in the essence of the "Tao", the more my personality shifts into alignment with what I perceive to be the "Tao". This does mean that I don't pursue many of the "things" I have in the past (pun intended).

 

It is often called "the path of the fool", referred to in TTC #20, depending on translations, as well as other alchemical texts of gnostic lineage. (and others, I'm sure, but haven't encountered).

 

So why do it?

 

Any responses are welcome.

 

Lad

 

 

 

 

 

[taijistudent]

I do not pursue Daoism or any group per se since I prefer my journey to be more independent and true to mine own self. I also do not belong to any groups that have created or following certain traditions, though I myself have adopted many ideas from these traditions including health and relationship practices.

 

I enjoy studying texts that speak of the Dao in one form or another (Yi Jing, Dao De Jing, etc.) since they give me insight into the thoughts of other people. These thoughts are not just symbolic of what people might have been thinking thousands of years ago when possibly awareness was more lucid, but it also gives insights into the thoughts of those who seek to translate and interpret these texts. These people share my search for understanding so it is a method for me to hear about what they have found in their journey.

 

The concept of the Dao is very simple and oft repeated in many ancient cultures (Heraclitus saw it as the Lagos). But it helps to bring focus onto the essential questions that I am seeking to understand and through this inquiry I learn about so many other things.

 

As for my interpretation, I do not see non-doing as an aspect of life nor of Daoism per se. Such a concept would be an impractical contradiction as you have pointed out, and for me the texts associated with Daoism are highly practical and meant to address every day needs in life.

Edited March 5, 2013 by taijistudent

[Marblehead]

I do not pursue Daoism or any group per se ...

Excellent!

 

We allow Tao to consume us, don't we?

 

We live in a very different world/time from when the TTC was written. Our life, in general, is hustle - bustle get things done and do it all now.

 

For me, the most valuable concept of Taoism is knowing when we have enough. No matter what it is, there should be a point where we have attained enough. And then it is time to rest (or retire). Rest - for me, the Yin principle, the feminine, the receptive. This concept can apply to a day's work, a goal, a desire, material accumulation, anything.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Marblehead

[taijistudent]

Excellent!

 

We allow Tao to consume us, don't we?

 

We life in a very different world/time from when the TTC was written. Our life, in general, is hustle - bustle get things done and do it all now.

 

For me, the most valuable concept of Taoism is knowing when we have enough. No matter what it is, there should be a point where we have attained enough. And then it is time to rest (or retire). Rest - for me, the Yin principle, the feminine, the receptive. This concept can apply to a day's work, a goal, a desire, material accumulation, anything.

Yes, Learning to rest is as advantageous as learning to do. Each of us gains from our studies and our relationships with other people who share our journey and then there is the time to reflect.

[silas]

I am researching the topic of interfaith, so I'm interested in your replies. Those of you who don't follow a specific system and/or create your own system syncretically, how did you come to the conclusion to do this? How do you answer when someone tells you that your beliefs haven't been tested by time or by a consensus of people who follow the same?

 

And in answer to the poster, I pursue Taoism because I had an ephiphany.

[taijistudent]

I am researching the topic of interfaith, so I'm interested in your replies. Those of you who don't follow a specific system and/or create your own system syncretically, how did you come to the conclusion to do this? How do you answer when someone tells you that your beliefs haven't been tested by time or by a consensus of people who follow the same?

 

And in answer to the poster, I pursue Taoism because I had an ephiphany.

It is primarily my nature that I choose to go my own route and form my own views in my own way and my own time. I enjoy the freedom to change.

 

Groups, by necessity must adopt specific beliefs and rules that create the group and allow to group to endure and be cohesive. Normally there are people who guide the group and share their beliefs with the group and the group in general adopts these views. They are the leaders, the gurus, the sages, the teachers who people choose to follow. There are times when ideas diverge and groups may split into separate directions or individuals may decide to leave the group and follow a different path. This is the nature of belonging to groups. One shares a joint journey as long as one shares the journey.

 

I am a person who is constantly learning and changing. By being my own person, I am free to change whenever I want and follow my own path, and above all to thine own self be true. It is by choice and by nature that I am my own guide.

[LCH]

Good questions Silas...

 

I would say that I agree with the other posters in that I have no true "belief system". This is why I gravitate to Taoism in that it is founded upon "nothingness", though there are certainly dogmas available as an expression of egoic perception.

 

Personally, I have immersed myself in plenty of belief systems, simply for the sake of getting a taste. Many are based in the logic of dualism in that they are "right" and other's simply are not. This is a hive-mind mentality that I simply cannot prescribe by.

 

Part of becoming truly "autonomous" and by this, I mean wholly owning of one's own thoughts, emotions ( more simply, Qi), is stepping away from what the collective believes and forging your own perceptions (from an ego perspective). This is what is meant to me by stripping away the conditioning of the temporal. It isn't about saying to myself "I am 'right' and everyone else is 'wrong'", more so the idea of "right" and "wrong" become components of a "greater" truth, one from where both "right" and "wrong" manifest.

 

The wish to know what is right and wrong in many ways comes from a mental desire to quell fear of the "unknown".

 

I will say that it has certainly helped me to share experiences with others who have had similar experiences. It helps initially when one starts wondering if they are "loosing it"! haha!

 

Ultimately, the mind stops craving "truth" all the time, and simply allows things to just be. It isn't a constant release, as there will be bouts with the ego and its instance to maintain its "death grip" on reality (pun intended).

 

Just a few of my experiences.

 

I am curious to hear of your epiphany, if you wish to share or can link me to where you have in the past.

 

Thanks.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Even if not chasing Enlightenment itself, the path there is rewarding in itself. "Conventional wisdom" of greed, lust for status, and over-reaction is often floating around like a virus, to which the depth of principles in Wu Wei can work like a vaccine. Being in Wu Wei there neither has to be adoption nor rejection. There's rarely any need to agree nor disagree for a Daoist.

 

Seeing the world in plain view

Clouds will soon be wood, wood becomes earth

Dive into the great mirror

[skydog]

Well I wouldnt call myself "a taoist" I wouldnt call myself anything exactly.

 

But it seems to be a blend of "Existing" as a real person and following the laws of nature, yin and yang, harmony, five elements etc Whilst being associated with the empty state.

 

My personal prference is not one of too many rule, although this is perhaps a disharmony of mine as rules and restraint are often "useful"

 

I like what taoism says about going with the flow of life, simplicity.

 

I also like Zen, although its difficult to say what is zen and what is taoism, and what is buddhism.

 

I could say Taoists arent too strict like some buddhists who seem to be of a religion, and it doesnt seem so forceful.

 

I used to think Taoism had nothing to do with morality. However I think thats a irrational perception of Taoism.

 

Im not too sure, There are so many counter theories to every theory not to say that saying theorys and then saying their counter theories is not beneficial.

 

I think in many ways its more important how you feel than what you think in a certain vibration/mood certain ways of seeing the world appear, angry= angry thoughts.. However thats also not true, you can be in physical/emotional pain and be empty too..

[chenping]

Why Taoism? The only reason, for me, is the people who are drawn to Taoism. They are different from people drawn to other belief systems.

 

I am not a Taoist. I just like Taoists.

Edited March 6, 2013 by chenping

[dawei]

@LCH: I have never felt that I am pursuing Daoism but have felt that something has been shadowing me for a long time.

I just didn't know the best name to call it till I started reading eastern works (after having read lots of other westerner and eastern philosophy). I think most people call it Dao but I think that is just a part of the picture. There is something more, IMO.

I think like a boat floating at sea, I simply accepted the wind's blowing, the rain's downpour, the wave's push and eventually ended up on shore. The boat and shore share this destiny now, yet all the elements always connected them.

I find that what I read about explanations about Dao (and those who perceived it prior to writing) completely agrees with my innermost core.

As to your comment about "truth" and letting things be. I have never been compelled to feel the need for the concept of "truth" as most hold it so important; same with "right and wrong". But I have felt the concept of 'trust' (maybe some would instead call it faith or belief) has probably been my guide. But that comes from the innermost core.

@Silas: Not sure if I answered your question above. I wouldn't care about comments about 'the test of time'. There is no time with Dao, so for me it is meaningless to ask or answer. But those who followed its principles have been written about and that 'traditional' way of life resulted in a book... and people seem to want to claim this book is the start of Daoism. I disagree with that idea but I understand.

@Taijistudent: Yes, sociology and observation shows how important groups are... And while I am curious observer of all this, I have never really felt the concept of 'group' was that important for myself. But maybe more like you suggest: There is a joint journey but it's more like the boat and shore to me. When you arrive there, you also know you were never really separated.

[Protector]

hmm, so basically you guys are hipsters

 

I just follow the bushidaooooo in my signature, easier to remember

 

No one wants to be alone but don't want to be a part of the group, it's more fun to start your own. Even when you stay away from people, like minded individuals will showwwwww uppppppppp

You are a group of people who don't want to be in a group *brain splodes*

[taijistudent]

hmm, so basically you guys are hipsters

 

I just follow the bushidaooooo in my signature, easier to remember

 

No one wants to be alone but don't want to be a part of the group, it's more fun to start your own. Even when you stay away from people, like minded individuals will showwwwww uppppppppp

You are a group of people who don't want to be in a group *brain splodes*

Just hanging out on a forum together until something else comes along. Cain was a bit of an independent wanderer in Kungfu. I think he was like that in real life.

[silas]

>>I am curious to hear of your epiphany, if you wish to share or can link me to where you have in the past.

 

About the ephiphany: at a precarious time in my life, Taoism led me to Tao and safety - specifically what I call classical Taoism.

 

>>@Silas: Not sure if I answered your question above. I wouldn't care about comments about 'the test of time'. There is no time with Dao, so for me it is meaningless to ask or answer.

 

The concerns of "test of time" and "the pervasiveness of people who think like you" are meant to keep out the great fear: doubt. It can affect your practice. If for example, you meditate regularly to find true stillness of mind and your friends or colleagues question your journey (even in an indirect manner), it can affect how successful your meditations are. Now, to some, a meditation is a meditation, no matter the degree of effect. But let's say, hypothetically, you are meditating to alleviate or cure an illness. How one responds to attempts to place doubt can have a physical consequence.

 

>>But those who followed its principles have been written about and that 'traditional' way of life resulted in a book... and people seem to want to claim this book is the start of Daoism. I disagree with that idea but I understand.

 

Since I deal with what I call "classical Taoism", I feel I have to reply to this. Many scholars would argue that some belief in the Tao existed for centuries before the books attributed to Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu and Lieh Tzu. Historically, this is absolutely true, and so, none of these books could be called the "start" of Taoism, which the name "classical Taoism" implies.

 

Nevertheless, those books describe the earliest form of unified Taoist thought that has survived to the modern day. Huang-Lao Taoism, for example, may claim similar pedigree, but overall, its theology does not speak to me. I refer to Chuang-Lao as classical Taoism because those books contain what is generally recognized as core Taoism in schools and religious libraries. The high regard for those books (just based on a philosophical view) must also reflect a high regard for the hidden mystical truths they investigate.

 

Classical Taoism is never, imho, a "traditional" way of life. It is all about living in and coping with a world in constant change. My own interpretation of it (which I carefully document to remind me of how I arrived at the interpretation and to let other interested parties apprehend the same) is an archeological journey to discover the religion beneath the philosophy. Yet classical Taoism privileges observation. If science were to discover that there were no such thing as a mystical elusive void outside of the realm of Being, which gave birth to the energy of creation, well, I'd have to accept it and adjust accordingly.

Edited March 6, 2013 by silas

[SEEKER OF TRUTH]

Why Taoism? Because it seems to make sense to me. In a world that doesn't make much sense, I find it very comforting.

[chenping]

Why Taoism? Because it seems to make sense to me. In a world that doesn't make much sense, I find it very comforting.

 

Does (1) Taoism give a sensible perspective of the non-sensical world, or (2) is Taoism a sensible refuge in a nonsensical world?

 

(1) provides a (Taoist) rationale that enables you to function as an integral part of the world; while (2) validates and facilitates a sensible (Taoist) way of life in a world that doesn't make much sense.

 

 

Personally, I have immersed myself in plenty of belief systems, simply for the sake of getting a taste. Many are based in the logic of dualism in that they are "right" and other's simply are not. This is a hive-mind mentality that I simply cannot prescribe by.

 

 

Part of becoming truly "autonomous" and by this, I mean wholly owning of one's own thoughts, emotions ( more simply, Qi), is stepping away from what the collective believes and forging your own perceptions (from an ego perspective). This is what is meant to me by stripping away the conditioning of the temporal. It isn't about saying to myself "I am 'right' and everyone else is 'wrong'", more so the idea of "right" and "wrong" become components of a "greater" truth, one from where both "right" and "wrong" manifest.

 

The wish to know what is right and wrong in many ways comes from a mental desire to quell fear of the "unknown".

 

I will say that it has certainly helped me to share experiences with others who have had similar experiences. It helps initially when one starts wondering if they are "loosing it"! haha!

 

Ultimately, the mind stops craving "truth" all the time, and simply allows things to just be. It isn't a constant release, as there will be bouts with the ego and its instance to maintain its "death grip" on reality (pun intended).

 

Why do you see this as Taoism? You have describe a mind-set that speaks to individualism. Can you point out one distinguishing characteristic between individualism and what you consider Taoism?

[Jetsun]

I thought Taoism might be a good way to approach trying to regain balance in myself, in my health and with the world without too much dogma. Unfortunately I came to the conclusion that I think the Chinese communists destroyed the vast majority of genuine Taoist lineages, apart from a small handful of exceptions most of what is left is scraps and Buddhist influenced practice.

[LCH]

Why do you see this as Taoism? You have describe a mind-set that speaks to individualism. Can you point out one distinguishing characteristic between individualism and what you consider Taoism?

 

 

The pursuit of "Taoism" is inherently an "individual" experience. In my own life, much of my emotional conditioning has been facilitated by living in a world with many "rules" and expectations that are not in alignment with my own inherent and more simple nature.

 

In order to break out of that mold, I have had to completely own my entire experience. Not blaming others for what has or hasn't happened, and clearing energetic attachments to cyclical aspects of my life that I wish to break free from.

 

More simply, I have moved to understand my emotional body implicitly. I am not advocating a submission of all emotions, more so just an understanding of the mechanistic process of emotion creation. Without breaking out of the mold of a "group-think" mentality, how could I understand my-self to the depth required to integrate beyond the illusory idea of "Separation"?

 

Thank you for asking.

[SEEKER OF TRUTH]

Does (1) Taoism give a sensible perspective of the non-sensical world, or (2) is Taoism a sensible refuge in a nonsensical world?

 

 

 

(1) provides a (Taoist) rationale that enables you to function as an integral part of the world; while (2) validates and facilitates a sensible (Taoist) way of life in a world that doesn't make much sense.

 

 

 

Why do you see this as Taoism? You have describe a mind-set that speaks to individualism. Can you point out one distinguishing characteristic between individualism and what you consider Taoism?

 

Sounds like you are doing homework for school. Maybe just read the TTC a couple hundred times and decide all this for yourself, rather than try to put it in a nutshell in one sitting. Of coarse you may also have to loose your mind in order to come to your senses.

[chenping]

Sounds like you are doing homework for school. Maybe just read the TTC a couple hundred times and decide all this for yourself, rather than try to put it in a nutshell in one sitting. Of coarse you may also have to loose your mind in order to come to your senses.

 

I would rather read your mind in order to come to my senses. I cannot read the TTC directly. I can read people. If they make sense, then the world make sense. If they don't make sense, then the world doesn't make much sense.

[chenping]

The pursuit of "Taoism" is inherently an "individual" experience. In my own life, much of my emotional conditioning has been facilitated by living in a world with many "rules" and expectations that are not in alignment with my own inherent and more simple nature.

 

Cite me one worldly "rule" that is not in alignment with your nature.

[LCH]

Cite me one worldly "rule" that is not in alignment with your nature.

 

This will turn into a failed discussion based on the limitation of written language expressed through the sterile means of the internet.

 

I respectfully bow out.

[Marblehead]

Cite me one worldly "rule" that is not in alignment with your nature.

Thou shalt not (anything).

[pigeontoes]

Why Taoism?

 

For me Tao allows the space for the equilibrium between the material & spiritual worlds. It's the guiding hand that delicately nurtures my inquisitive soul. Opens my eyes to the surrounding natural path of my life. Maintains my equilibrium via the harmony of my nature.

[ChiDragon]

Thou shalt not commit suicide....???