Why Taoism?

[silas]

>>I just don't get why the rich can't get through the needle's eye or closer to the true Self. Sure, money isn't the rocket propellant that will get you into orbit but it sure can dispel gravity and move obstacles out of the way.

 

Because of attachment. The belief is that money comes with strings of one kind or another that condition your response and keep you from moving freely. Poverty can limit your mobility too, if it traps on in a culture of poverty. As they used to say, you can be "rich as Rockefeller" as a classical Taoist, so long as you are willing to give it up if when the Tao moves you to let it go. I would say, having known one or two rich people in my life, that most are unwilling to give up their money on (what to the outer world would be) a whim.

[Marblehead]

Hehehe. Seems you are having fun. That's nice.

Who cares about purpose? Being alive is like being in a Theme park. I'm not much into that stuff about Tao makes one and one makes two and two makes three and three makes the Theme park. All I care about is getting my rides before it's time to get to the exit.

Well, I am into the Tao stuff. I love talking about the philosophy. We are actually doing that here.

 

Indeed, we doo need to take the rides. All of them at least once - the ones we enjoy more than once. That's what living is about.

 

And you think being a straw dog among the other 99% will get you closer? I just don't get why the rich can't get through the needle's eye or closer to the true Self. Sure, money isn't the rocket propellant that will get you into orbit but it sure can dispel gravity and move obstacles out of the way.

Perhaps I didn't express myself properly. There is nothing worng with having enough. There is nothing wrong with having an excess as long as we don't spend our entire life trying to see how much excess we can accumulate and forget to live our life to its fullest. Also having an excess allows us to help those we wish to help who don't have enough for a comforable life. Money is good, it's just that we should live our life for the purpose of accumulating more than is necessary.

 

99% are straw dogs. The players, the movers and the shakers, are something else. Imagine this: you stick your bank card in the ATM Machine, touch "Check Balance", and see "$20,000,000,000". This is it. This is the eternal Tao. Does it matter if you are going to die one day? You are a player. You can literally move mountains. Straw dogs get closer to the true Self. Which do you pick? Wise up, man. I am not the Devil and you are not Jesus in the desert.

Sure, I would be just fine if I had that much money. I would be able to create many possibilities for long-term help to others rather than the simple daily help I am presently able to offer to others. I have enough (for me) and a little excess that I periodically give to others. Wouldn't it be great if I could provide long-term employment to a number of people?

 

I am not talking about writing the script about what you're going to do for the day. I'm talking about writing the script that takes you out of the role of a straw dog on a slave ship into a role of a player who parts the Red Sea. I'm talking about real Tao power.

I have the "real" power of Tao. I know that is a bold statement but I feel it is true. But I'm not sure I would want to part the Red Sea.

 

There is the wu-wei of the loser and the wu-wei of the winner. If you don't take life seriously, you might as well be dead. Even the ant takes life seriously. And the lilies of the field too, they do sew and spin. Only the biblical ones don't. But in real life - if you really observe the truth about nature - it's all serious; otherwise, you won't have that beauty, you'd have the garbage-strewn streets of cities where no one really gives a damn.

Well, I have to agree with you here but I still think we shouldn't take it too seriously. Of course, I am retired and I have enough so I am able to say this. Younger folks should take it more seriously than I do because they still have a long way to travel.

 

 

 

[chenping]

Because of attachment. The belief is that money comes with strings of one kind or another that condition your response and keep you from moving freely. Poverty can limit your mobility too, if it traps on in a culture of poverty. As they used to say, you can be "rich as Rockefeller" as a classical Taoist, so long as you are willing to give it up if when the Tao moves you to let it go. I would say, having known one or two rich people in my life, that most are unwilling to give up their money on (what to the outer world would be) a whim.

 

I appreciate your thoughtful response. This means your head is not cooked like a Taoist bun offered to hungry ghosts in a Wudang temple.

 

Money, generally, does bind you to a material reality. But just because one has no money doesn't mean one is free. In fact, the attachment is more intense because the need is real. The poor guy who claims he is free is either a spiritual conman on the make, or cracked.

 

The reason why rich people won't give up money and even want ever more is because they are poor people who never got over the trauma of being poor. In that sense, Forbes list of billionaires are actually a line up of world-class scavengers showing off their stash.

 

My point is, there is nothing wrong with being wealthy, and coming into money, in itself, is not a damning thing. The problem is the person, and I am the person. Then, there is the other problem which is the way the money comes into my life. If you were the scriptwriter, in what way (Tao) can that $20 billion come into my life not through the misery of others?

[chenping]

Yes, having fun is nice until it gets ugly when one of us becomes unglued because the Tao we embody overheats and has a fissile meltdown. Should this happen, can we move to private messaging? I don't want to upset the mods when our Taichi moves gets deadly and we are dead set on attaining orgasm.

 

Perhaps I didn't express myself properly. There is nothing worng with having enough. There is nothing wrong with having an excess as long as we don't spend our entire life trying to see how much excess we can accumulate and forget to live our life to its fullest. Also having an excess allows us to help those we wish to help who don't have enough for a comforable life. Money is good, it's just that we should live our life for the purpose of accumulating more than is necessary.

 

You come across as someone who sees a need to help out. Fundamentally, it is a good impulse. And if helping out is what you want to do, then you probably will never have enough because Jesus said, "the poor, you will always have with you".

 

Sure, I would be just fine if I had that much money. I would be able to create many possibilities for long-term help to others rather than the simple daily help I am presently able to offer to others. I have enough (for me) and a little excess that I periodically give to others. Wouldn't it be great if I could provide long-term employment to a number of people?

 

Bill Gates has more than that much money. He has $67 billion not counting Warren Buffet's pile of $53 billion pledged to the Melinda and Bill gates Foundation dedicated to helping out others. Is that what you are talking about? How come all this desire and fire-power to help out (not to mention the billions in US foreign aid) amount to zilch in terms of making the world a better place? What is your take on this? If you had the Tao power to direct the Bill gates Foundation, what would you do that they are not doing to make a lasting difference?

 

I have the "real" power of Tao. I know that is a bold statement but I feel it is true. But I'm not sure I would want to part the Red Sea.

 

Well, I have to agree with you here but I still think we shouldn't take it too seriously. Of course, I am retired and I have enough so I am able to say this. Younger folks should take it more seriously than I do because they still have a long way to travel.

 

I don't doubt you and it is good to make that bold statement. In my book, self-confidence is not a crime as long as your head is screwed on right.

 

Taking life seriously is a must; otherwise, you wouldn't care about helping out others. It's taking oneself seriously that needs to be tamped down. Taoism, all too often, amounts to self-glorification. Helping out others, like I said, is a good thing provided the self is not in the equation.

[silas]

>>Taoism, all too often, amounts to self-glorification. Helping out others, like I said, is a good thing provided the self is not in the equation.

 

In the many religions that promote altruism, it is a form of selfishness, because they practice charity for "brownie points" with the divine or to pay for the ticket into Heaven. If you were to tell them that God (or other deity) would never let them in and could prove it, they would shut their doors on the world.

[Marblehead]

Hi Chenping,

 

Yes, I accept what Jesus said regarding that there will always be poor people.

 

What you and Silas are talking about is very valid.

 

Oh, and don't worry about me getting all emotional during this discussion. We are doing fine here, I think.

 

I used to talk badly about Bill Gates because of the way he came into his money and never gave any back to society. He has changed since he got married. He is now doing good things.

 

It seems we are now stuck on talking about money. Yes, in today's society we need have money in order to buy the things we need to have a comfortable life. Money is not the root of all evil. It is the attachments we make to it that sometimes lead to evil.

 

Chuang Tzu tells a story of when he was offered a job at the palace but turned it down because he felt he had enough and didn't want to be bothered with being responsible to others.

 

But yes, there were times in my life when I didn't have enough. I know what that feels like. Perhaps this is why I have no problem with giving of my excess to others.

 

And it is true, almost always when someone becomes very rich it cause the loss of someone else. The oil and war industries are that way. Always have been, I guess. This, IMO, is not the Way of Tao.

[LCH]

How money is perceived and how it is created are two very opposing views.

 

Many will worship the "God" of money as some sort of salvation or life-giver. In many ways it is since within a material existence it is required virtually everywhere as a form of exchange for those who either choose not to or are incapable of completely living off the land for "free". Of course, trying to find a piece of land to live on that isn't owned by someone who won't try to charge you something to live there may be a tall task. Many have a healthy relationship with money, but there are many more who have allowed their inherent nature to be consumed by money. Once it consumes someone's nature, then self-realization is seemingly a near-impossibility. One will possibly always view themselves through the filter of monetary worth. For those who have a healthy and un-attached relationship with money, there are other ways to perpetuate their servitude, I will get to that in a bit.

 

 

Sure there are the baseline emotions of greed, lust, power, etc... that drive the desire for more money, but there are those who get caught up in the game of life and blindly walk into a scenario where they become a slave to money, mostly because they don't ever have "enough" to buy their freedom. Freedom from a debt-based system. (Cite the millions of recent and not-so recent college graduates who will be paying off student debt perhaps till they die.) We live in a debt-based system that will keep even a debt-free person concerned about their personal "worth". Pun Intended. Even if my house is paid off, I will still owe taxes, although that amount is more manageable than having a mortgage too.

 

Most people born into such a system never realize just how "owned" they are. Why? Because the standardized education system does everything in its power to promote the opposite through what is taught and how it is taught.

 

People's attachment to equating worth with a pile of paper with numbers on it is definitely a seemingly illogical scenario to someone who has broken the controlling ties of equating worth with an external idea such as money.

 

On the other side of the coin, those that have the means to create the money are the self-appointed, though, I do not rule out that they have help "beyond humanity", overlords of this "game show" called life. This "money" is literally created out of thin air - now a days - digital thin air, and then protected by an extremely complicated means known as a monetary policy facilitated by a central bank.

 

So the question becomes when you are a member of the "elite" who controls the entire process of "wealth" creation, what is it that will motivate you? What is there left to meaningfully "do"?

 

For people who don't have "enough" money, it usually is perceived that the "elite" just can't seem to get enough, their ignorance fueled by seemingly endless greed. Sure it might appear that way, and i do not rule out that there are people like this, but as one delves deeper, they recognize that the "elite" are tied into EVERYTHING within society.

 

"They" own the media, "they" own the governments, "they" own religion, "they" own the university system, "they" own the historians, "they" own the medical profession, "they" seemingly own it all...

 

An autonomous individual may realize that it isn't just about money, money serves as a distraction for most of the "sheep" in their eyes, but not all. What about the people who have broken out of that system of control? The people who question that which has been spoon-fed to them from day one. Taoism talks about temporal conditioning, but those who supposedly wrote these passages thousands of years ago may not have been aware of the "amped-up" form of conditioning that humanity would allow itself to go through. A conditioning consciously facilitated and controlled by a "smaller" aspect of the species.

 

At this point in the "evolution" of humanity, the level of control extends into the minds, thoughts, and beliefs of the masses. The emotional energy that humanity produces is far more powerful than a pile of "benjamins". Money is simply a manifested form of control. Those who are aware of the "illusion" of reality are not just practicing and well-to-do people that come to forums like these, they are the people who run the show too. Faustian bargains a plenty.

 

If one truly understands their own power to create and alter "Creation", they recognize just how hard the overlords try to dumb people down. This is not anything different from what multiple versions of "history" will tell us. It has always been about control and manipulation. Be it through money, or through the control of thought through the manipulation of emotion.

 

If anyone has ever encountered a "Demon" you have a very personal experience as to how your thoughts and emotions can be used against you. A microcosmic example of what humanity is subjecting itself to right now.

 

The pursuit of "The Tao" is seemingly the panacea for an world that embodies very little of what the Taoism promotes... This is why I found and immerse myself in Taoism.

 

And based on my personal experiences, I will forecast that there will come a "time" in our lifetimes where the debate about "non-doing" will become a very important factor of the lives of "aware" individuals.

 

I am an aspect of Infinite Creation having a "finite" experience as a member of the gestalt known as "Humanity".

[三江源]

Yes, having fun is nice until it gets ugly when one of us becomes unglued because the Tao we embody overheats and has a fissile meltdown. Should this happen, can we move to private messaging? I don't want to upset the mods when our Taichi moves gets deadly and we are dead set on attaining orgasm.

Thoughtful of you, thankyou.

 

The thing about moderating is.. if you get upset.. you are doing it wrong.

 

If you are likely to orgasm in this thread I think we will all be quite glad for you.

 

So long as you dont threaten or insult others while experiencing it.

[chenping]

The thing about moderating is.. if you get upset.. you are doing it wrong.

 

What if I what I have to say upsets you? Jesus was not upset. What he had to say upset the moderators of his time because they felt insulted and they banned him and got him nailed to the cross. Even the Son of God was subjected to the oppression of moderators.

 

Ruling a Tao forum should be like cooking a small fish. And I am the small fish?

Edited March 9, 2013 by chenping

[chenping]

In the many religions that promote altruism, it is a form of selfishness, because they practice charity for "brownie points" with the divine or to pay for the ticket into Heaven. If you were to tell them that God (or other deity) would never let them in and could prove it, they would shut their doors on the world.

 

Yes, selfishness is definitely a human trait. Altruism, which is its other name, is a do-good sentiment that serves to beautify the self. But I think people are capable of acting instinctively in response to helping out - not just other humans but animals too when they are caught in a tough spot. Helping others, as a grand scheme of doing good, is usually something that Lao Tzu would frown on.

 

So, why Taoism? I don't think wu-wei means don't ever respond. Helping others is a tricky thing.

[chenping]

Hi Chenping,

 

Yes, I accept what Jesus said regarding that there will always be poor people.

 

Why is that, though? I have a feeling Jesus knew the way (Tao) to eradicate poverty completely. His comment on the poor being a perpetual feature in life was an indictment of the way we go about helping others. Helping others is like throwing gasoline on the fire (of poverty). To get an idea of what I mean, wire $50,000 to yourself in Mumbai, India; fly there and withdraw the money in rupees which you hand out to the poor, the beggars and urchins who will mill around in the street. I guarantee you that within 30 minutes of handing out, you will understand that teaching of Jesus Christ.

 

I used to talk badly about Bill Gates because of the way he came into his money and never gave any back to society. He has changed since he got married. He is now doing good things.

 

What good things? It's not easy to do good things in a bad world. The Gates Foundation spend 5% of its assets doing good works each year. That 5% comes from returns on investment of its assets in the stock markets of the world. It's like a hedge fund pledging 5% of its profits on good works. Hedge funds could make more than 5% maybe 20% in a good year. But hedge funds have to pay taxes. A hedge fund that is set up as a charitable foundation pays no taxes. So, instead of paying taxes to Uncle Sam, a charitable foundation gets the power to spend 5% of its profits on pet projects of its own choice. I won't go into all the kind of good works being done. One kind they are big on is fighting Aids which is projected to grow by leaps and bounds in Africa. I suppose doing something is better than doing nothing even if doing something amounts to nothing.

 

It seems we are now stuck on talking about money. Yes, in today's society we need have money in order to buy the things we need to have a comfortable life. Money is not the root of all evil. It is the attachments we make to it that sometimes lead to evil.

 

Talking about money is also talking about Taoism which deals with the way of life. I don't know what you mean by attachment to money. Money we need to spend is like the air we need to breathe. Just because there is abundant air doesn't make us increase our breathing rate. The extra air stays in the air bank (atmosphere) and breathed on when necessary. It's the same with money. The extra money stays in your money bank. Even if you were to keep it in your counting house for you to count your money, what evil will that lead to?

 

Chuang Tzu tells a story of when he was offered a job at the palace but turned it down because he felt he had enough and didn't want to be bothered with being responsible to others.

 

Chuang Tzu told that story? Which Chapter is that?

 

But yes, there were times in my life when I didn't have enough. I know what that feels like. Perhaps this is why I have no problem with giving of my excess to others.

 

Instead of giving your excess to others, don't you think it is better to work towards an equitable world where no one has any excess and everyone has enough?

 

And it is true, almost always when someone becomes very rich it cause the loss of someone else. The oil and war industries are that way. Always have been, I guess. This, IMO, is not the Way of Tao.

 

You are correct. Did you tell this to your Congressman? He would turn the issue around and ask us for an alternate solution without the US Military and energy source to power America's economy. The Way of the Tao means the end of life as we know it. Will you be happy living in American Samoa?

[Marblehead]

Why is that, though? I have a feeling Jesus knew the way (Tao) to eradicate poverty completely. His comment on the poor being a perpetual feature in life was an indictment of the way we go about helping others. Helping others is like throwing gasoline on the fire (of poverty). To get an idea of what I mean, wire $50,000 to yourself in Mumbai, India; fly there and withdraw the money in rupees which you hand out to the poor, the beggars and urchins who will mill around in the street. I guarantee you that within 30 minutes of handing out, you will understand that teaching of Jesus Christ.

I am in total agreement with you here.

 

What good things? It's not easy to do good things in a bad world. The Gates Foundation spend 5% of its assets doing good works each year. That 5% comes from returns on investment of its assets in the stock markets of the world. It's like a hedge fund pledging 5% of its profits on good works. Hedge funds could make more than 5% maybe 20% in a good year. But hedge funds have to pay taxes. A hedge fund that is set up as a charitable foundation pays no taxes. So, instead of paying taxes to Uncle Sam, a charitable foundation gets the power to spend 5% of its profits on pet projects of its own choice. I won't go into all the kind of good works being done. One kind they are big on is fighting Aids which is projected to grow by leaps and bounds in Africa. I suppose doing something is better than doing nothing even if doing something amounts to nothing.

But good is good regardless of what color lipstick you put on it.

 

Talking about money is also talking about Taoism which deals with the way of life. I don't know what you mean by attachment to money. Money we need to spend is like the air we need to breathe. Just because there is abundant air doesn't make us increase our breathing rate. The extra air stays in the air bank (atmosphere) and breathed on when necessary. It's the same with money. The extra money stays in your money bank. Even if you were to keep it in your counting house for you to count your money, what evil will that lead to?

By attachment I refer to accumulating money for its own sake and having more than you could ever use.

 

Chuang Tzu told that story? Which Chapter is that?

Chapter Seventeen - Autumn Floods

 

"Instead of giving your excess to others, don't you think it is better to work towards an equitable world where no one has any excess and everyone has enough?"

That's not one of my roles in life.

 

You are correct. Did you tell this to your Congressman? He would turn the issue around and ask us for an alternate solution without the US Military and energy source to power America's economy. The Way of the Tao means the end of life as we know it. Will you be happy living in American Samoa?

Yes. Most just laugh.

 

I am happy living right where I am. And I don't plan to move.

[chenping]

By attachment I refer to accumulating money for its own sake and having more than you could ever use.

 

I don't think one can go about accumulating money at will if money doesn't want to come one's way. But when it comes, it pours, the way that one-armed slot machine goes 7-7-7 and vomit out the coins, there is no stopping the deluge of cash coming your way. It's the money that is attached to the rich man and not the other way round as seen by envious poor people.

 

Chapter Seventeen - Autumn Floods

 

Ok, I will check that out and report back.

 

That's not one of my roles in life.

 

Sounds like you would not like this role and would decline acceptance of the Mandate of Heaven like Chuang Tzu in Chapter Seventeen? Why? You said you like to give others a break. If fate bestows upon you limitless power to help others, why won't you accept the role? Is it because you don't know how to go about it?

 

Yes. Most just laugh.

 

Were they laughing at your proposal to do away with war and oil industries or laughing at you? If you have $20 billion, they would take you seriously.

[Marblehead]

I don't think one can go about accumulating money at will if money doesn't want to come one's way. But when it comes, it pours, the way that one-armed slot machine goes 7-7-7 and vomit out the coins, there is no stopping the deluge of cash coming your way. It's the money that is attached to the rich man and not the other way round as seen by envious poor people.

You don't think? I will not accept that. I think you are very capable of thinking (sometimes illogically, Hehehe) very well.

 

I have never been lucky at gambling. I alway lose. Therefore I stopped gambling and rely on my capabilities and capacities.

 

Well, look at it any way you wish, the wealthy are wealthy and most of them keep it all to themselves because they enjoy the power that money affords.

 

Ok, I will check that out and report back.

Yes, Please do.

 

Sounds like you would not like this role and would decline acceptance of the Mandate of Heaven like Chuang Tzu in Chapter Seventeen? Why? You said you like to give others a break. If fate bestows upon you limitless power to help others, why won't you accept the role? Is it because you don't know how to go about it?

I am too old anyhow. I don't need the aggrivation of trying to control others. I don't need or want power. Sure, I would accept any money that came my way but I would likely give most of it to others who I thought could make better use of it than I could. Like birth control pills.

 

Were they laughing at your proposal to do away with war and oil industries or laughing at you? If you have $20 billion, they would take you seriously.

Both, I think. At the silly proposal and then at me for making such a silly proposal.

 

Yes, there would be many, but not all, who would be influenced by the power of my money. But then I will never be in such a situation so considering what I would do if it were ever to be is useless.

[raimonio]

This first stanza of the Tao te Ching is why I prefer Taoism to all other traditions, it admits the futility of words and language, it doesn't claim to hold the Ultimate within somekind of metaphysical box, it is raw spirituality at its finest. It admits ignorance and therefore it's wisdom shines.

 

"The Tao that can be told

Is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named

Is not the eternal Name" Tao Te Ching

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

I have fell in love with these first words of TTJ aswell

 

Taoism, because it is a more gentle and natural version of Zen, although it became before it and was a great influence in the upbringing of Zen. To me Taoism doesn't have any of the negative stuff of Buddhism. Many feel that Christianity is a horrible religion because people are blamed for sin. For me, my existence has always been questioned, my feelings always doubted and never validated. When I became a Buddhist and heard it was all becase of my ego, I felt again, like my experiences were being downplayed. I started blaming my thoughts for being the ego. Just like my parents had blamed my feelings about their alcoholism to be not true. So for me Buddhism just didn't fit, although I am still a Buddhist and agree with the theory of enlightenment. I tried to become aware of everything and ended up denying my feelings and thoughts.

 

Taoism on the other hand has no sin and no ego. It simply states very gently, the universal nature of everything, the Tao. If you don't follow it it doesn't mean theres an evil ego at work. It doesn't really mean anything, the Tao continues just like before. You can either go with it or not, but there is no guilt involved. I read Thomas Clearys "Vitality, energy, spirit" and there it describes the process of enlightenment from the perspective of energy. If you remain in Wu Wei, then the energy is stable. It is much better for me to see it from the point of energy, because there is no morale involved, no ego. Just different styles of handling your energy.

 

The Taoist practice suits me because of similar reasons, it doesn't start from overcoming your thoughts and doing battle (by not doing it) inside your head. It starts from below, circulating energies, still resulting in the same mental state as Buddhism. At no point do you have to wonder whether it is okay to think or not, you just do something else.

 

Today I can live in Wu Wei thanks to Taoism. I could not reach this state with Buddhism. The teaching of the story is, that different philosophies get different reactions from different people. Ofcourse one could argue that I was simply a bad Buddhist, but the question is, why force myself to do something that gives me a negative response, when I can choose another path that works right from the beginning without a massive overextending effort?

 

So in the end. Everyone who responses to the question "Why Taoism" is a person, who for some reason has been hardwired for it. Glad to hear it from each individual

Edited March 11, 2013 by raimonio

[newbjpt13]

I would say I fell into Taoism cause traditional Baptist style Christianity made my life very painful and sad when I was young. It creates a cycle of constantly feeling some "inherited sin" from supernatural forces that makes it impossible to escape. This creates a cycle of constantly feeling guilt and shame over doing "sinful acts" and such the shame creates a cycle where it is very difficult to change due to the unbreakable labels they place on it.

To me, Taoism at its root after you take away all the supernatural claims and immortals is a system based on the pursuit of perfection of the health of the physical body and uniting with our other bodies. I feel that wu wei is a real concept for many things in life. By this I mean that the pursuit of health of the physical body accomplishes wu wei in society without us being perceptive of it. The pursuit of the health of the physical body abolishes concepts of greed, selfishness, and lust without even validating whether such concepts exist or discussing the "morality" of things in society.

Our eyes are not meant to spend extended lengths of time staring close and up front. If we are concerned about maintaining our good eyesight it will naturally lead us to have no interest in smart phones or Nintendo DS. We will have no desire to spend long lengths of time on such devices up by our face for hours on end.

Or something like abortion, for example. The fetus is deeply bonded and attached to the woman's uterus. I mean deeply attached. Abortion really tears and peels away some of the inner lining of the uterus. This is VERY bad for the health and increases odds of cancer. If a woman cultivated a deep desire for health of her physical body she would give birth to the child and give it up for adoption. Other religions focus on the evils of this action and cause conflict in society and increase anti-religious resentment amongst those who wish to have this right to abortion. If the way of pursuing the health and transformation of our physical body were followed there would be no though or reflection on morality and would just not abort the child.

Also, there are negative health benefits upon a person by having to many children and a woman may weigh the benefits of having 7 children. There are ways in Taoism that modern science even shows could be effective for a woman to naturally stop her period if followed correctly. Modern medicine for stopping periods is damaging to her health. This is population control that people worry about.

Another example is getting to much meat in our society. If we realize cooking meat is terrible for our health we would decide to freshly butcher very healthy animals and eat it slightly raw within 10 minutes of the butchering. This practice would lead us to consuming far far less meat and save more of the damage modern agriculture does in growing enough corn for cows and so forth. I don't think there is anything wrong with eating meat like some Taoists suggest. I think, though it is toxic to our health how we use it. I also feel it is not about needing meat in our diet as much as not having access to more potent Yang Tonics that have less bad side effects. Deer antler and ginseng are some of the most expensive tonics out there. What would cutting back on the way we consume meat to benefit our health do to society?

I feel wu wei is a real concept, but it is done through the effort of pursuing physical health. As a result of placing modern technology in perspective of what is good for our health or bad for our health we will naturally begin to accumulate more and more money since we often use it for things that are bad for our health.

Edited March 11, 2013 by newbjpt13

[ChiDragon]

There are ways in Taoism that modern science even shows could be effective for a woman to naturally stop her period if followed correctly.

I feel wu wei is a real concept, but it is done through the effort of pursuing physical health.

hmmmm....
It seems there is a little contradiction here......

[newbjpt13]

Maybe, but I don't feel like spending 30 more minutes examining and rewording myself You have no idea how long I already spent rephrasing myself. Maybe I will eventually rephrase it.

Edited March 11, 2013 by newbjpt13

[三江源]

 

 

hmmmm....

It seems there is a little contradiction here......

no it isnt a contradiction. cultivation is interaction with nature in an mutually responsive way.

[ChiDragon]

no it isnt a contradiction. cultivation is interaction with nature in an mutually responsive way.

 

IMHO "stop her period" is not a cultivation nor an interaction with nature but interfered with the course of nature.

[三江源]

 

IMHO "stop her period" is not a cultivation nor an interaction with nature but interfered with the course of nature.

 

You believe this also about semen retention ?

[ChiDragon]

You believe this also about semen retention ?

 

I don't think so. Semen retention is different because it doesn't have any serious biological effect as in "stop the period" for female. If I understand it correctly, the woman's period was to use the blood to flush out the reproductive system for the arrival of the next egg. It better not to interfere with the period cycle.

Edited March 11, 2013 by ChiDragon

[三江源]

 

I don't think so. Semen retention is different because it doesn't have any biological effect as in "stop the period" for female. If I understand it correctly, the woman's period was to use the blood to flush out the reproductive system for the arrival of the next egg. The blood is the lining of the womb in preparation for a fertilised egg. When the egg isnt fertilised the monthly 'nest' loses its stability and falls away.

Semen retention doesnt have an biological effect?

 

That would mean semen loss has no biological effect.

 

I know that red dragon practices are controversial , and I am unclear how they are anything other than optimising lifeforce, parallel to semen retention.

 

 

It better not to interfere with the period cycle.

I understand a lot of people believe also it better not to interfere with semen emission.

 

Then again cultivation itself is controversial. Iron shirt practices... perhaps some think they are contradictory to cultivation.

 

It might be possible to consider 'transforming stress into vitality' with venting and cauldron creation as interfering, I suppose.

[silas]

Does anyone think we are are heading towards a one-world religion? I posted this question in the General Disc. forum, but it seems relevant here too. By "one world religion" I mean some kind of unified religion. Would it have its basis in Christianity, the most popular religion in the world today?

 

Everything is mapping into Christianity. Christian Buddhism, for example, maps the Buddha to Jesus and the overmind to God. Christian Judiasm (Jews For Jesus) accept Jesus as the messiah and hence the New Testament. All of the New Age religions seem to be based in Christianity. The "3 teachings" of old China religion (Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism) have become the "4 teachings" with Christianity gaining converts in large numbers (or so I am told).

 

Will some form of syncretic Christianity be the one-world religion? I have heard that in such a religion, any doctrine, teaching or story that does not map would have to be discarded. How would such a one-world church treat outside people, like non-mapping Taoists? A one-world church would wield considerable power.

Edited March 11, 2013 by silas

[ChiDragon]

Semen retention doesnt have an biological effect?

 

That would mean semen loss has no biological effect.

 

I know that red dragon practices are controversial , and I am unclear how they are anything other than optimising lifeforce, parallel to semen retention.

 

 

I understand a lot of people believe also it better not to interfere with semen emission.

 

Then again cultivation itself is controversial. Iron shirt practices... perhaps some think they are contradictory to cultivation.

 

It might be possible to consider 'transforming stress into vitality' with venting and cauldron creation as interfering, I suppose.

 

It would not be considered 'interference" if there was no harm done other than a good cause.