Limits of Practice

[Marks of Glory]

Greetings.

 

I have heard so much about cautions that must be taken during practice and how people burn their own systems with excess Qi.

 

Did anyone actually experience a burnout or personally knows someone else that did so? What were the symptoms?

 

I ask this because I recently attended to a Vipassana 10-day course, and it pushed me to the limit, I really thought that i was burning myself up, but the teacher said that the experiences were normal, so I simply continued with the practice. and today I feel normal, not fucked up.

 

Here were some experiences I had, (please do not compare them with your own experiences, and do not hate me for sharing them, my intention is not to be proud of them at all, just to share, and forget them emptying myself for they are nothing but transitory, Aniksha):

 

2nd day at night, when I went to sleep I felt energy acumulating at my nose tip, zooming downwards toward my chest cavity and exploding over there. (I heard other people having the same experiences and sharing them with the teachers at night time, which said they were normal, those "explosions").

 

4tth day during a sitting I was with eyes mildly oppen when i suddently percieved the arms of my neighbor meditator as a little girl standing in sand dunes in a desert - alucination - breath started suspencind, i Felt very scared and moved out of position to stop with the symptoms, which continued for about 2 hours, I went to eat some fruits while feelling that i was loosing contact with this reallity, I felt my Hui Yin constantly sinking as if it were loose sand.

 

5th day, Static energy acumulating in crown area and atracting alot of Qi over there, creating a great pressure in the skull with eventually made a sound of "cracking" on the top. I got scared and moved a bit out of position.

 

5th and 6th day, I could percieve energy in a form of a very thin thread of sound which felt as if it were golden in nature, especially on the central upper part of my spine, connecting with the center of my head.

 

7th day till 10th day. the extreme experiences were over, subdued, and i started to percieve an inner observator which was extremely silent and empty, I felt his as black or, even still, Voidness, the silence was kind of freaky but very very peacfull.

 

througout the retreat I felt alooot of pain in the Sacrum area, as if someone were stabbing that area repeatedly with a knife, And I thought that the "Dragon Gate" was oppening, and alot of karmic issues were being delt with.

 

During the whole reatreat I was very worried with the symptoms, i would go to the teacher and ask him if it was normal and he would always sa "normal, just continue, it is your fear that is coming up, stay equanimous, etc..." some times I would think that he did not understand my explanations (i spoke portugues, he was american and didn`t want me to speak english with him). anyways... I got to the conclusion that if there was a place that I could risk it all was during that retreat, and if I got insane ar something fucked up happened, I would spend somedays there to recover, so I just continued meditationg and meditationg ..

 

and... the experiences subdued!!

 

that is why I ask about wat are the limits... I discovered that I would always stop my practice as soon as something wieerd happened, and during the Vipassana course i "crossed the limits" and feel great now, as if it were necessary to "cross the limits" to deal with karmic issues.

 

all kinds of opinions are welcome

Edited March 12, 2013 by Marks of Glory

[hydrogen]

You're at pretty high level. It's very hard to say anything without causing more variation to muddle the karma. Then again, diversity makes life interesting.

 

One of the question that only you can answer yourself is "did you enjoy those experiences yourself overall?" All those manifestation came from your mind originallly. Why them?

 

Personally I like Tebitan_ice experience more: naked beautiful woman and kundalini girl dancing for him. He's a lucky dog. I adore female body. I don't like random weird thing happen to me during my peaceful sleep. I'd like enjoyable experiences. I'm a simple guy who enjoy the normal male fantasy (yes, it's a fine line between fantasy and craving/lust. The good news is I'm making the line wider and more blurred .

 

I can never understand these people who enjoy horror movies. They pay to get scared to death! However, I'm not going to ban horror movies just because I don't like them. Or think those people at lower level of development. They like what they like. I like what I like. So long everyone is authentic and respectful of each other. We all can have "fun" at the same time.

 

Do you really want to experience how it feels to be "crazy"? I was "crazy" twice. I appreciate the things that I learned during that phase. I just wish there are less dramatic ways to teach me the lessons. To be honest, I'd rather watching and touching a beautiful naked girl than going crazy.

 

Thanks for sharing the experiences. Now I know for sure I don't want to go to a Vipassana retreat. What a horror movie!

[ChiForce]

I don't think it is burn out. Is more like the Chi energy or the Kundalini energy is cleansing your body and your chakras. And at times, these cleansing can take the form of images coupled with moral issues. I will assure you that you would have many more of these experiences to come. The cleansing process is a life time journey. I think a real burn out is called Chi Kung psychosis. You can google it.

[taijistudent]

Yes, burn out is possible as in any activity in life whether it be physical, mental, or spiritual. I have found it to be wise to approach any practice in moderation and always staying attune to feedback signals that he body is sending. I know of many people who pushed to exceed what would be healthy for them and in the process harmed themselves. It is no different than running. Running a mile or two may be healthy. Running a marathon can kill. Any excess can create harm.

[Marks of Glory]

One of the question that only you can answer yourself is "did you enjoy those experiences yourself overall?" All those manifestation came from your mind originallly. Why them?

 

Thank you for you opinion hydrogen...

but the thing is, and I am quite sure about this... During the cleansing process of of Qigong, at least for spiritual purposes, unfortunately all should expect unpleasent experiences (if we had not shit to clean in this life time, we would not have reincarnated at all). If you want to go through this, you really need to want it, to have the strength to go throught the "dark phase". He kinds of explains it in the retreat. Of course.. alot of beaituil stuff also.

 

 

I don't think it is burn out. Is more like the Chi energy or the Kundalini energy is cleansing your body and your chakras. And at times, these cleansing can take the form of images coupled with moral issues. I will assure you that you would have many more of these experiences to come. The cleansing process is a life time journey. I think a real burn out is called Chi Kung psychosis. You can google it.

 

Will google it.. thank you.

 

Yes, burn out is possible as in any activity in life whether it be physical, mental, or spiritual. I have found it to be wise to approach any practice in moderation and always staying attune to feedback signals that he body is sending. I know of many people who pushed to exceed what would be healthy for them and in the process harmed themselves. It is no different than running. Running a mile or two may be healthy. Running a marathon can kill. Any excess can create harm.

 

hmm thats the prolem taiji student....

 

we all have karmic issued that are unpleasent, if we dont dare and cross the limits, we will continue to run away from them for ever. About the signals.. I was very scared with them I really felt as if I was burining up my self, but the reacher said to continue (and I wanted to continue, because I kn ew that I f a backed up, I would continue backing up when I got back home, so I thought that it was a good place to go for it).

 

what do you consider to be a feedback that your body is sending?

 

For example, I have been told that when you feel nausea on meditation on qigong practice, that your body has acumulated more Qi than it is used to, and that you need to stop the practice.. but after my retreat, the teacher said that you should continue, and feel the nausea and just become aware and equanimous. Maybe he is right, we should cross the limits... I have always heard about burnouts but never directly from someone who went through one.

[liminal_luke]

Sure, I believe it's possible to mess oneself up with fanatic practice. Generally though, we have the opposite problem. We pick a great practice (such as vipassana) and when unpleasant feelings and sensations come up--ie, signs that things are starting to really work--we bail. Of course, the trick is knowing the difference. And the best way to do that is to ask an experienced teacher whose traveled the way your going before. Exactly what you did.

[Ish]

Hmm, i think you can only burn out on practices where you are actually applying some kind of "force".

If in vipassana you are simply being aware and noticing with equanimity then i don't think you can burn out, any reaction would just be from clearing.

If you're forcing yourself to sit in some posture rigidly without moving for a long time then I think the build up of energy with the tension of that can cause some problems.

[hydrogen]

In general anything can be a signpost/landmark. Basically it tells that you where you are. There are so many of them at different level, that your body/mind just regard the familiar signposts as white noise, you are not aware most of them.

 

When you get to some places that you haven't been before or not very familiar, you noticed the signpost/landmark. Should you keep going or turning back? It's up to each individual in different situation.

 

There are tons of them. Some of the signpost/landmark ar customized, i.e. only you can feel/see them. To compare your signpost with another person is useless most time.