Chunyi Lin will personally collect $1.5 million from Stiggy in Australia

[Mal]

Drew, you've missed the point, again

 

Again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, the most important factor in your energy development is opening your heart and connecting with the unconditional love of the universe and learning to live your life in this love, powered by this love and radiating this love to help others.

Interview with Chunyi Lin of Spring Forest Qigong

 

And I don't think I'm able to help ...

 

[Apech]

Stig,

 

Whatever happened to your moderation by consensus position? I remember you arguing against moderation action and all for talking things through. Have you abandoned this now?

 

Drew,

 

I believe you have completely misunderstood Stig's challenge. He is not arguing against qi existing or being capable of action over distance and so on ... but is just asking someone to step up and demonstrate it to the satisfaction of objective science ... not for the benefit of the likes of us but for the benefit of those who doubt or have never encountered qi themselves. Not only would this promote the idea of qi it would open the door to a scientific understanding of it. I think I am right about this but Stig will correct if I am wrong.

[skydog]

love

Edited March 15, 2013 by sinansencer

[Apech]

love

 

love - 15

[voidisyinyang]

Stig,

 

Whatever happened to your moderation by consensus position? I remember you arguing against moderation action and all for talking things through. Have you abandoned this now?

 

Drew,

 

I believe you have completely misunderstood Stig's challenge. He is not arguing against qi existing or being capable of action over distance and so on ... but is just asking someone to step up and demonstrate it to the satisfaction of objective science ... not for the benefit of the likes of us but for the benefit of those who doubt or have never encountered qi themselves. Not only would this promote the idea of qi it would open the door to a scientific understanding of it. I think I am right about this but Stig will correct if I am wrong.

 

I have yet to hear Stig say this -- I have asked him if this is the case but have only gotten silence! haha.

 

Then he says he wants any qigong master to come do his test.

 

It would be silly if that's how qigong masters work -- the energy works from the inside out.

 

If a person is a qigong master they are swimming in energy blockages - constantly healing people all the time.

 

The first healing Chunyi Lin did in the U.S. was of his friend's cat!

 

The friend was changing so they could go play basketball and Chunyi Lin was at his place and the friend tells Chunyi Lin to wait and that his cat is deaf.

 

So Chunyi Lin says - can I work on your cat? The friend is like whatever -- not knowing what Chunyi Lin is talking about.

 

When the friend finishes changing Chunyi Lin tells him to call the cat's name and the cat can hear.

 

haha.

 

So that's how it is -- Chunyi Lin and Jim Nance only sleep a few hours a night and the rest of the night they sit in full lotus meditation charging up their energy.

 

During the day they are healing people with huge tumors -- shinking them down to next to nothing in one session.

 

I have heard of two such cases recently -- one of them Chunyi and Jim took turns on a man who had a tumor covering his jaw so he could not even talk. So they took turns and in one session the man could talk and the tumor was almost gone.

 

So in traditional qigong culture a student is very lucky if he qualifies to be a real student of the master -- like Jim Nance was with Chunyi Lin.

 

Jim Nance had spent 20 years studying shamanism - a couple years in Africa with traditional shamans -- and elsewhere in the U.S. and Europe and India, etc.

 

So Jim Nance completely devoted himself to training in qigong to become a master.

 

So that's how a person learns about qigong.

 

It would be totally silly for a person to sit and whine and complain and demand for a qigong master to come to them to prove that qigong is real.

 

haha.

 

The whole rational worldview is destroying the planet -- it is delusional -- as Chunyi Lin said he is not trying to convince any skeptics.

 

Chunyi Lin has also said he is willing to be put up to any tests.

 

So Stiggy could certainly email

 

[email protected]

 

Email them Stiggy and send them the information about your test.

 

Who knows - maybe Chunyi Lin will help you out.

 

But I do think the money angle is pretty sketchy since you are relying on other people to pay out for you - and so your standards of what is proof would probably never satisfy those people.

 

A person really does need to experience the energy directly - as this news caster states

 

 

He actually quit his job after experiencing Chunyi Lin - that's how blown away he is.

 

Now Gary does the video testimonials and also the online podcasts for Chunyi Lin.

Edited March 15, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[voidisyinyang]

Drew, you've missed the point, again

 

Interview with Chunyi Lin of Spring Forest Qigong

 

And I don't think I'm able to help ...

 

Mal thanks for making your point - your last comment was definitely cryptic!

 

haha.

 

So Stiggy really does believe in qi energy?

 

I have asked several times and gotten no response from him.

 

I have read Elkin's book on the Australian aborigine shamans.

 

Do you think the skeptics need to be reassured that the aborigine shamans are not fake?

 

I wonder if there are any real shamans left among the aborigines!

 

The West is a culture of rational genocide against real shamans.

 

So why would a shaman want to try to appease the rational genocide people?

 

The shaman wants to hide from the rational genocide people.

 

IN the U.S. it was illegal for Native Americans to practice shamanism after 1887 and until the National Religious Freedom Act was passed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Religious_Freedom_Act

 

1978!!

 

So until then the shamans had to remain in hiding and I read a biography of one real shaman of the Lakota tradition -- he died in the 1980s.

 

I suppose Adam the Dream Healer could be considered a Native American shaman as he was born with his third eye fully open and he is part Indian....

 

But otherwise this shamanism is a dying off tradition.

 

Someone posted on my blog recently about how they had traveled China and they were now in India -- the whole time looking for energy masters! The person not only did not find any real energy masters that could heal him but they wanted to return to Chunyi Lin to get another healing!

 

That's how rare real energy masters are.

 

So if someone wants to experience the energy they have to seek it out.

 

It's their own personal choice.

 

I can provide the contact info http://springforestqigong.com has further details.

 

Someone PMd me about getting a phone healing for a family member.

 

So it feels like a laser deep in the heart -- Chunyi Lin's phone healing.

Edited March 15, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah I have reread Stiggy's comment to me and it reminds me of....

 

well anyway Stiggy want to impose the rational worldview onto the qigong masters and this will not work!

 

O.K. first of all Stiggy -- science has proven that quantum physics is the foundation of reality.

 

Quantum biology is now mainstream science -- but it just became mainstream a few years ago!

 

Quantum biology allows for non-local communication between photons and electrons.

 

But this can only be monitored - not reproduced through technology.

 

So for a person to "monitor" the non-local communication they have to become a part of the experiment!

 

A person is put into a trance state in order to be healed.

 

The energy of the qigong master comes from the Emptiness -- quantum non-local consciousness -- but this can not be measured by science!!

 

This is called quantum "squeezed" light or quantum time-frequency uncertainty.

 

Stiggy you want to be rational but you are not being scientific enough!

 

I read one scholarly book a day for ten years while I was in full lotus and I recorded my research as a book with 725 footnotes!

 

haha.

 

The rational worldview is no longer valid as quantum chaos mathematician Steve Strogatz points out.

 

The most sophisticated math models rely on supercomputer iterations that can not be deterministic nor repeatable.

 

Reality is always changing and the rational model now means the machines are in control.

 

So I have shown "gold standard" science and that is not good enough for you Stiggy!

 

Why? It is perfectly valid science.

 

haha.

 

Why would someone have to go way out of their way to convince someone who is fighting the information and does not want to know about it.

 

People often say:

 

"I don't want to talk about it"

 

Well guess what? Sometimes there is no choice!

 

Reality takes over - and such is the case with quantum physics.

 

My quantum physics professor stated that people should take quantum physics as their first physics class.

 

Because people don't take quantum physics first then they are lied to in science and they are brainwashed to see the world with a classical Newtonian worldview that has been disproven!

 

For example -- I will repeat myself for the sake of Stiggy since he finally actually responded to me.

 

So Chunyi Lin was teaching qigong to someone's workplace.

 

the worker complained to James Randi about Chunyi Lin and stated Chunyi Lin got the job based on the previous history of Chunyi Lin teaching qigong to the Mayo Clinic medical doctors.

 

So then James Randi declared Chunyi Lin a fake without knowing anything about Chunyi Lin!

 

haha.

 

Don't you see how silly that is?

 

So based on the logic of the skeptics - someone is a fake until they personally prove themselves to the skeptic.

 

It is false logic.

 

It is like saying the tree does not make any sound in the forest if no one is there to hear it.

 

Well I'm going to return to my Medical show in netflix - because that is the standard Stiggy should use.

 

The medical doctors go into nonwestern cultures to try out the shamanic medicine - in the same terms as the shaman.

 

That is how the medicine is proven!

 

Why would anyone want to do James Randi's fake test when he has a history of cheating people in order to try to trick them?

 

That isn't science - unless you think of the real truth of science as being based on genocide and nastiness.

 

Yeah so then James Randi gets exposed as relying on his illegal homosexual roommate who used fraud also.

 

haha. So can anyone note the direct connection that spiritual healing is based on male celibacy while James "Randy" defines his personal identity by male ejaculation and yet Randy claims to be rational?

 

haha.

 

Hilarious.

[Apech]

It doesn't really matter whether I am right or not about what Stig believes ... he is asking for scientifically verifiable tests ... which is reasonable and could help many people.

[voidisyinyang]

It doesn't really matter whether I am right or not about what Stig believes ... he is asking for scientifically verifiable tests ... which is reasonable and could help many people.

 

I have provided scientifically verifiable tests!

 

It is "gold standard" science! So there can be no excuses made.

 

So basically you have people on thetaobums waiting for someone to personally prove qigong is real to them.

 

haha.

 

Sorry but a person has to call the Spring Forest Qigong Center at 1-952-593-5555

 

Get a phone healing and feel the laser energy!

 

It's very easy and Chunyi Lin has already done the science that proves "external qi" is real.

 

So do you really think top medical doctors are not scientific enough? haha.

 

Hilarious.

Edited March 15, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Apech]

I have provided scientifically verifiable tests!

 

It is "gold standard" science! So there can be no excuses made.

 

So basically you have people on thetaobums waiting for someone to personally prove qigong is real to them.

 

haha.

 

Sorry but a person has to call the Spring Forest Qigong Center at 1-952-593-5555

 

Get a phone healing and feel the laser energy!

 

It's very easy and Chunyi Lin has already done the science that proves "external qi" is real.

 

So do you really think top medical doctors are not scientific enough? haha.

 

Hilarious.

 

Drew ... great respect to you ... but you should really try to read other people's posts and understand what they are saying before you reply. I think it would help.

[effilang]

Drew, you're missing the point completely.

 

This is not about proving that QG works. It's about expanding people's awareness of it and making it more mainstream.

 

Can you imagine how incredible it would be if someone like Chunyi Lin, cured someone of cancer in real time on a popular TV show?

 

People think QG is popular simply because it's a household name.

 

It's not as popular, but more importantly, not as practiced as it should be.

 

So there are plenty of good reasons for Stig, to do what he is doing.

 

 

 

 

[chi 2012]

The cat was actually a dog named Tory.

[Stigweard]

Stig,

 

Whatever happened to your moderation by consensus position? I remember you arguing against moderation action and all for talking things through. Have you abandoned this now?

 

Thanks for your words Apech

 

Actually if you recall I was passionately advocating for a moderation system where, if something came up, a topic was created in a dedicated Moderation Forum that was, at the very least, open and viewable by every member. Preferably though it would be a process where any and every member who felt they had a "stake" in the issue had the right and availability to speak their mind and be heard. Formal or official "moderators" would be there only to facilitate the discussion. Out of that discussion a consensus would be found. It would be members moderating themselves.

 

That was my position back then, and it still is now

 

Was I invited to be a part of this discussion that ultimately lead to the "approval" of this thread that completely misrepresents my views and comments and is littered with not so subtle insults and denigrations???

 

No...

 

Have I had any communication from the Mod Team in regards to the discussions and considerations that were taken to "approve" this offensive content?

 

No...

 

The Mod Team have put their stamp of approval on this thread and have clearly declared that is OK for members to deride and denigrate each other even if the basis for that denigration is based on misrepresentations.

 

Apologies if I have been abrupt here ... I am quite upset over the short-sightedness demonstrated by the moderation team.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Drew,

 

How many times is it going to take for people to tell you that you have misunderstood and misrepresented me for you to realize how drastically you have wronged me in this thread?

 

Stuart

[voidisyinyang]

Drew, you're missing the point completely. This is not about proving that QG works. It's about expanding people's awareness of it and making it more mainstream. Can you imagine how incredible it would be if someone like Chunyi Lin, cured someone of cancer in real time on a popular TV show? People think QG is popular simply because it's a household name. It's not as popular, but more importantly, not as practiced as it should be. So there are plenty of good reasons for Stig, to do what he is doing.

 

If you were Stig saying that I would say -- great!

 

But I will repeat - I have asked Stig if this is the case! haha.

 

No response yet!

[voidisyinyang]

Drew ... great respect to you ... but you should really try to read other people's posts and understand what they are saying before you reply. I think it would help.

 

You'll have to provide some evidence to back up your claim!

 

I remember someone who reads my blog regularly claiming I misread the books I referenced!

 

I said -- o.k. just give me some evidence!

 

What did I misread?

[voidisyinyang]

Thanks for your words Apech

 

Actually if you recall I was passionately advocating for a moderation system where, if something came up, a topic was created in a dedicated Moderation Forum that was, at the very least, open and viewable by every member. Preferably though it would be a process where any and every member who felt they had a "stake" in the issue had the right and availability to speak their mind and be heard. Formal or official "moderators" would be there only to facilitate the discussion. Out of that discussion a consensus would be found. It would be members moderating themselves.

 

That was my position back then, and it still is now

 

Was I invited to be a part of this discussion that ultimately lead to the "approval" of this thread that completely misrepresents my views and comments and is littered with not so subtle insults and denigrations???

 

No...

 

Have I had any communication from the Mod Team in regards to the discussions and considerations that were taken to "approve" this offensive content?

 

No...

 

The Mod Team have put their stamp of approval on this thread and have clearly declared that is OK for members to deride and denigrate each other even if the basis for that denigration is based on misrepresentations.

 

Apologies if I have been abrupt here ... I am quite upset over the short-sightedness demonstrated by the moderation team.

 

--------------------------------------

 

Drew,

 

How many times is it going to take for people to tell you that you have misunderstood and misrepresented me for you to realize how drastically you have wronged me in this thread?

 

Stuart

 

Stiggy satire is based on blatant misrepresentation.

 

It is very obviously misrepresentation - that's what satire is!!

 

Of course Chunyi Lin is not going to personally collect $1.5 million from you.

 

You don't have $1.5 million for him to collect.

 

It's not your decision if he was going to collect any money from you.

 

Hello?

 

That is called satire! haha.

 

It is meant to stimulate discussion.

 

Now Stiggy -- do you believe that qigong masters are fake until proven real?

 

Stiggy -- have you ever gotten a shen laser transmission from a qigong master?

 

Stiggy -- again what do you think of Master Zhang?

 

You have yet to comment on real qigong masters!

 

You say that if Chunyi Lin is real he should proven it scientifically.

 

I have already posted science research proving Chunyi Lin is real.

 

You have not commented on that research.

 

Hello?

 

So c'mon - at least talk about your problem.

 

There is this mythological "rational science" community out there that will supposedly prove once and for all that qigong is real.

 

Sorry but that is not how science works.

 

Everyday I promote the science "gold standard" study showing that qigong is real.

 

So this is a forum specifically focused on qigong and yet the person looking for science proof ignores the study!!

 

What does that tell us about the supposed rational scientific person. haha.

 

I have sent and posted the science study on forums specifically focused on promoting paranormal research.

 

Those forums have also ignored this "gold standard" science study.

 

One forum advertises itself as the "gold standard" of paranormal research!!

 

How hilarious is that!

 

When I present "gold standard" science proving paranormal powers are real -- the readers on the forum freak out and claim I am trying to sell something and whatever else they want to make up.

 

Science does not work by a "challenge."

 

O.K. Stiggy -- the fact that you are relying on "reward" money already exposes these "skeptic" groups as irrational!

 

Think about it - it's common sense. Some group of people have a lot of money that they don't want to lose -- it's their money!

 

So presto - they are no longer rational actors.

 

That's why universities rely on government support for monies - to make their science seem more objective, etc.

 

That's why corporate science is called "junk science."

 

The skeptics are just "reverse" corporate science. A corporate body of people have money that they don't want to fork over and yet they insist they are rational.

 

haha. It's not science people -- don't fall for that trick!

 

The Myth of the James Randi Prize is well exposed.

 

I already posted the links - did Stiggy comment on it? Of course not! haha.

 

That's why this is all a big joke.

[Mal]

Mal thanks for making your point - your last comment was definitely cryptic!

 

haha.

 

So Stiggy really does believe in qi energy?

 

I have asked several times and gotten no response from him.

 

I have read Elkin's book on the Australian aborigine shamans.

 

Do you think the skeptics need to be reassured that the aborigine shamans are not fake?

 

I wonder if there are any real shamans left among the aborigines!

 

2nd edit to add - If you "reached out" shortly after my "cryptic" post, I "felt" that

 

I wonder also if there are any remaining Australian Aboriginal shamans, not to "prove" anything to anyone but I'd like to meet one. However my cultural conditioning makes it difficult for me to be accepting and open to Australian Aboriginal culture.

 

 

I have already posted science research proving Chunyi Lin is real.

 

I would not name "randomized controlled trials" as "gold standard" rather they are standard scientific practice because they can give results that are more predictive, rather than anecdotal evidence or case studies which tend to be more descriptive.

 

That article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20626055 (and I'm not familiar with this journal) shows that

 

external qigong treatment participants had a significant decrease in pain intensity in the 2nd (p = 0.003), 3rd (p < 0.001), and 4th weeks of treatment (p = 0.003). At week 8, these differences in overall decreased pain intensity persisted but were not statistically significant.

 

Although from the abstract I'm not sure what the "external qigong treatment" protocol was and I'd like to note that self reported pain can be very variable, although usually somewhat consistent in individuals (pain is a very complex area of medical study)

 

 

To address

You'll have to provide some evidence to back up your claim!

 

I remember someone who reads my blog regularly claiming I misread the books I referenced!

 

I said -- o.k. just give me some evidence!

 

What did I misread

 

EVERYTHING I've said above (except the Aboriginal stuff) has already been said by other bums in this thread.

 

Personally I know energy work is real, I've also "felt" my teachers energy over long distances. That doesn't prove to anyone else that it's "real", and IMO nor should it as almost all teachers I know of stress the importance of not "proving" anything to others.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Mal Stainkey

[voidisyinyang]

2nd edit to add - If you "reached out" shortly after my "cryptic" post, I "felt" that

 

I wonder also if there are any remaining Australian Aboriginal shamans, not to "prove" anything to anyone but I'd like to meet one. However my cultural conditioning makes it difficult for me to be accepting and open to Australian Aboriginal culture.

 

 

 

I would not name "randomized controlled trials" as "gold standard" rather they are standard scientific practice because they can give results that are more predictive, rather than anecdotal evidence or case studies which tend to be more descriptive.

 

That article http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20626055 (and I'm not familiar with this journal) shows that

 

 

Although from the abstract I'm not sure what the "external qigong treatment" protocol was and I'd like to note that self reported pain can be very variable, although usually somewhat consistent in individuals (pain is a very complex area of medical study)

 

 

To address

 

EVERYTHING I've said above (except the Aboriginal stuff) has already been said by other bums in this thread.

 

Personally I know energy work is real, I've also "felt" my teachers energy over long distances. That doesn't prove to anyone else that it's "real", and IMO nor should it as almost all teachers I know of stress the importance of not "proving" anything to others.

 

 

Randomized controlled is called "gold standard." Some scientists argue it is not gold standard -- I already posted the link for that.

 

So you say it is not "gold standard" -- you are contradiction what previously was the definition of "gold standard" science.

 

That is your opinion.

 

You seem to think your opinion is objective reality.

 

haha.

 

You say you have personally felt energy over long distances.

 

Great!

 

I have repeated asked Stig if he has.

 

No response yet.

 

Stig is the one pushing for this "science" proof.

 

A group of people saying they have money that they will fork over if they are satisfied is not science!!

 

Gold standard research is science.

 

I realize I am repeating myself.

 

I am still waiting for Stiggy to say whether he personally believes qigong masters are real.

 

Also I am still waiting for Stiggy to comment on the gold standard science research that already proves external qi energy is real.

 

I have now emailed this gold standard research to Rupert Sheldrake.

 

So Mal -- you think that gold standard research is not proof for others to consider as real.

 

haha.

 

That's hilarious.

[Birch]

That's cool if Rupert Sheldrake turns up. I read a book about his field theories and experiments once. I also got reading about Persinger - he would be another guy to talk to, I reckon. There have been some counter-experiments around his work too.

[voidisyinyang]

That's cool if Rupert Sheldrake turns up. I read a book about his field theories and experiments once. I also got reading about Persinger - he would be another guy to talk to, I reckon. There have been some counter-experiments around his work too.

 

I've talked to Persinger before he did his ESP experiment. I asked him what he thought of Dr. Andrija Puharich's research. Persinger said he thought Puharich was greatly underappreciated. If you read Puharich he recommends scientists do an ELF wave ESP test and after I had asked Persinger about Puharich then Persinger did the exact same ELF ESP test.

 

I also asked Persinger about his connections to military research and he did not respond.

 

Pretty much any experiment can be criticized but obviously when dealing with paranormal research then the scientific foundation of the experiment is quantum energy and then you get into non-local effects and inherent uncertainty.

 

PZ Myers also attacked Spring Forest Qigong and Myers is considered the top science blogger -- he is also a raving skeptic promoter -- so Myers happens to be a U of Minnesota professor yet, of course, he refuses to go "investigate" Chunyi Lin.

 

haha.

 

I really do find it hilarious that these pompous "skeptics" steadfastly refuse to get a phone healing from Chunyi Lin.

 

What about the youtube testimonials - for example Esther Trejo was healed of a rare lung condition that would have required a transplant?

 

Not exactly subjective chronic pain is it.

 

After 8 classes with Chunyi Lin and practicing "Chinese breathing exercises" -- she was off her 24 hour oxygen and she has no scar tissue in her lungs.

 

It is covered by the local news.

 

There are plenty of healings Chunyi Lin has done that in no way could be placebos, etc.

 

The whole placebo argument is silly.

 

If it is a placebo but works then who cares what you call it?

 

On the other hand science has also demonstrated that placebos have never really worked -- and so the "external qi" could not be a placebo since the treatment did work.

 

You have several top medical researchers overseeing the study -- reporting the results - and yet people who are "skeptics" say the results are placebo effects or too "subjective." haha.

 

Now who is being subjective? A group of people saying they will fork over a bunch of money if they are personally convinced in test results that they get to contrive?

 

The skeptics have a history of using "tricks" and harrassing people -- why would anyone want to submit themselves to it?

 

The whole "exit clause" claim is hilarious. The Myth of James Randi Million dollar test demonstrates the "exit clause" shenanigans in great detail.

 

The fact is that "consciousness" is the one thing that science rejects - apriori - due to the math that science is based on.

 

there are deep paradoxes in math as math professor Luigi Borzacchini reveals -- and other philosophers of science that I have mentioned - H.M. Collins, Michael Polyani, David F. Noble, etc.

 

Science is the mythology of our times - it is the great lie that we breathe in constantly. It is very convenient and comforting - no one would want to live without science now. Science is also destroying the ecology and social justice of the planet.

 

Qigong master Yan Xin called qigong the "Highest technology of all technologies" - this is true because qigong is based on quantum biology that is proven to exist but can not be reproduced by scientific technology.

 

PZ Myers banned me from his blog when I posted a bunch of satirical comments -- but I was promoting quantum biology back in 2005-6 -- before quantum biology had gone mainstream. PZ Myers is a biology professor and so now he will have to face the new quantum biology truth! haha.

Edited March 16, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Birch]

Focus Drew;-)

 

Persinger's experiments were redone by another lab (I know I should go dig it up for the ref) and the results were different. It did seem to me in reading the report about the other experiment that it proved that Persinger's experiments were entirely covered by the placebo effect. Which is another way (today) of discounting validity of 'actual' effect - which BTW ought to be better looked into. I realise it's a foundation of experimental method.

 

- opinion etc-

[voidisyinyang]

Focus Drew;-)

 

Persinger's experiments were redone by another lab (I know I should go dig it up for the ref) and the results were different. It did seem to me in reading the report about the other experiment that it proved that Persinger's experiments were entirely covered by the placebo effect. Which is another way (today) of discounting validity of 'actual' effect - which BTW ought to be better looked into. I realise it's a foundation of experimental method.

 

- opinion etc-

 

Yeah I have mentioned I commented on this elsewhere....

 

So then someone who was part of a qigong study for Diabetes type II -- posted this link:

 

http://www.iqim.org/new-page/

 

 

 

few randomized controlled trials of Qigong in patients with type 2 diabetes have been performed. The purpose of the present study was to investigate the effects of Qigong relative to physical exercise or standard care on glucose control in adults with type 2 diabetes.

 

on the Myth of the placebo effect:

 

 

The Placebo Disavowed: Or Unveiling the Bio-Medical Imagination

Ed Cohen

[email protected]

“The May 24, 2001, issue of The New England Journal of Medicine contained a provocative article by two Danish researchers Asbjorn Hrobjartsson and Peter Gotzsche entitled “Is the Placebo Powerless?” Based on a meta-analysis of 130 clinical trials for a wide range of treatments (including pharmacologic, physical, and psychological protocols) that provided comparisons of placebo with non-treatment results, the authors concluded: “We found little evidence in general that placebos had powerful clinical effects. . . . Outside the setting of clinical trials, there is no justification for the use of placebos.” Proclaiming the “newsworthy-ness” of this conclusion, Gina Kolata, science correspondant for The New York Times, published a first section assessment of the responses to the article that began: “In a new report that is being met with a mixture of astonishment and sometimes disbelief, two Danish researchers say the placebo effect is a myth.”[ii]”

 

http://anamericanatheist.org/2011/10/29/investigating-woo-spring-forest-qigong-research/

 

 

Stengers notes how Mesmerism (early French magnetic healing) worked,

it's just that its results could not be explained.157 “One might add that a similar challenge is

signaled by the fear that so many physicians have of being confused with magical healers if they

take account in their practice of what they know, in other respects, that is, the crucial role of

‘placebo’ effects.”158

 

157 León Chertok, Isabelle Stengers, A critique of psychoanalytic reason: hypnosis as a scientific problem from

Lavoisier to Lacan (Stanford University Press, 1992)

158 Ibid, p. 277.

 

I could not find any mention of Persinger's ESP study being proven later as a placebo effect by some other experiment.

 

This ESP Enigma book though has fascinating tidbits -- http://books.google.com/books?id=pvlv2efnFY0C&pg=PA275&lpg=PA275&dq=placebo+Persinger+esp&source=bl&ots=udit6F2fhz&sig=mdz0k9vTNxiejnaNV6_SHrf7ZvQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Dc5DUe7aDMjs2AWshYHACg&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=placebo%20Persinger%20esp&f=false

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=mhO5E-YddzEC&pg=PT150&lpg=PT150&dq=placebo+Persinger+esp&source=bl&ots=vI30Kw4Ybu&sig=vUOZEGO2KkQ1omEOGrlogzkNM_w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Dc5DUe7aDMjs2AWshYHACg&ved=0CGoQ6AEwCTgK#v=snippet&q=%20Persinger%20&f=false

 

O.K. here's a follow up disproving his God Helmet experiment.

Edited March 16, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[voidisyinyang]

Chris van Tulleken http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2170186/Doctor-twins-One-treats-patients-traditional-medicine-opts-holistic-approach.html Just tweeted this dude about Chunyi Lin and the healings and science study.

 

Here's the "put up or shut up" mentality in action.

 

Rupert Sheldrake's TED talk was just censored from youtube!

 

http://blog.ted.com/2013/03/14/open-for-discussion-graham-hancock-and-rupert-sheldrake/

Edited March 16, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Mal]

 

 

 

So Mal -- you think that gold standard research is not proof for others to consider as real.

 

haha.

 

That's hilarious.

 

No, that is incorrect I said

 

I would not name "randomized controlled trials" as "gold standard" rather they are standard scientific practice because they can give results that are more predictive, rather than anecdotal evidence or case studies which tend to be more descriptive.

You also posted 2 links YOURSELF showing the "debate" on the name gold standard.

[voidisyinyang]

 

 

 

 

So Mal -- you think that gold standard research is not proof for others to consider as real.

 

haha.

 

That's hilarious.

 

No, that is incorrect I said

 

>I would not name "randomized controlled trials" as "gold standard" rather they are standard scientific practice because they can give results that are more predictive, rather than anecdotal evidence or case studies which tend to be more descriptive.

lockquote>

You also posted 2 links YOURSELF showing the "debate" on the name gold standard.

 

 

The idea that people with chronic pain for over five years not treatable by Western medicine is just subjective when it is healed -- even though the top medical research says it's "very impressive."

 

So haha.

 

Yes the more subjective then the more effective the healing!