Rosicrucian

[GrandTrinity]

anyone down with the rose cross? Seems like some really interesting mysticism... if I can crack it open.

[Spectrum]

y0 I'll get down while breakin it open on the dance floor.

[GrandTrinity]

word to your moms

[三江源]

Bumping this up to see if anyone here is a Rosicrucian or has anything to share about this body of knowledge.

[Oolong Rabbit]

I think most of what passes for Rosicrucianism such as A.M.O.R.C. is little more than new age dribble. The real Rosicrucians are supposedly populated with high levels Freemasons, and are alleged to be closely linked with the Royal Society (modern chemistry grew out of alchemy). Arthur Edward Waite of Golden Dawn fame (who was a "real" rosicrucian) wrote a voluminous tome on the subject that might answer some of your questions... if you can make it past the introduction without falling asleep that is . Another lead would be to snoop around Adam Mclean's site. I think he is connected with some "real" rosicrucians, and some post on his discussion forums.

 

P.S. A word of caution. Be careful getting sucked into these "secret" societies. There is good cause to believe that the orders have been hijacked, and that their original lofty aims have been supplanted with more nefarious ones.

 

Brgds

[Blind Owl]

AMORC used to present the basic skills of Occult study but it has since been changed and watered down.

 

A good book tle dense) is the 'True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order' by Paul Foster Case. He continually updated it during his life, but the original version is out of copyright and available in pdf format. The interesting thing about the original copy is that it contains a series of meditations for each of the grades which were removed from later copies.

[三江源]

That is very useful info from both of you, thankyou.

 

AMORC is the first thing you come up when you google, so it's good to know it's dribble, without wasting time on dribbling.

 

I wonder what the nefariousness is, Oooolong?!

 

I'm intrigued.

 

BlindOwl, the original version in PDF isnt proving easy to find.. I dont suppose you know where it can be got?

[Taoist81]

The A.'.A.'. is descended from the Golden Dawn with Crowley's personal discoveries and Yoga he learned added in. You only begin working with the Rosy Cross formula officially when you reach the grade of Zelator (you go through a 1 year Probationer Grade 0=0, then at least an 8 month Neophyte Grade 1=10 before Zelator 2=9), but it is in the study material beforehand. (www.outercol.org) The AMORC and the BOTA are supposed to have good study material and good programs. The Golden Dawn Inc. is also supposed to have a good system

[Blind Owl]

[三江源]

Mmm, fascinating! It sounds as though it may be more likely that one might understand the Zanoni book, having read Case first.

 

I love the old bookshop and Highgate element. Foggy weather and hand knitted mufflers, men in full length wool coats and shiny leather boots, with outlandish sideburns!

 

Perfect fireside reading.

 

Thanks BlindOwl.

[Blind Owl]

Yes, outlandish sideburns are a must! (I always carry a spare set in case I singe one while puffing on my pipe.)

 

Re: True and Invisible Order: The book grew from the 60 pages in the 1927 edition to over 300 by the time of Case's death. (the other editions are floating about in torrents and emule - if youre in to that kind of thing)

 

Paul Foster Case was responsible for writing the BOTA (Builders Of The Adytum ) correspondence course and while the book can be quite heavy going as it focuses a lot on gematria, it will give you a good idea of the Rosicrucian system of initiation and its intended outcome (Initiation in the sense of opening and integrating levels of consciousness as opposed to the mechanics of ceremony etc which is also very important in many Rosicrucian schools).

 

Enjoy

[h.uriahr]

Not sure if this site is any good or not but you can take a look at it

 

http://www.rosicrucian.com/2qa/2qaeng01.htm

[mYTHmAKER]

mYTHISmAKERS teacher , a Rosicrucian, once invited us to a ceremony.

 

We sat around a long wooden table in a Victorian brownstone lit by candle light,

where her teacher proceeded to call out the names of deceased members.

A roll all of the dead and they did come to the call.

 

I had no desire to go to another ceremony.

[三江源]

mYTHmAKER..... that sounds pretty spoooky!

 

what were they calling them for? a meeting of the elders for consultation?

 

Did you see them, or what?!

[mYTHmAKER]

mYTHmAKER..... that sounds pretty spoooky!

 

what were they calling them for? a meeting of the elders for consultation?

 

Did you see them, or what?!

 

I think they did once a year.She just said and now i will call the roll.

Each time she would call a name she or someone (don't remember) would bang a wooden staff.

I also remember a long wooden box - like a coffin either on the table or somewhere in the room.

It was maybe thirty years ago so I am a bit fuzzy with details, however, I will never forget the feeling.

 

It was like being in a graveyard at night with the wind howling or a spooky seance in a grade B movie.

 

You could feel each spirits presence.

Edited October 29, 2008 by mYTHmAKER

[Jedi777]

[三江源]

Jedi

 

If you feel able to say anything about how your rosicrucianism fits with taoism or qigong, how it enhances taoist practice or whatever it gives, more specifically, I'd be fascinated.

[Oolong Rabbit]

[Taoist81]

[Oolong Rabbit]

This is called the Fallacy of False analogy. Someone who has any concept of death, knows exactly what a bullet in the head does, you don't have to experience it. For various orders, only experience (which doesn't result in physical death) sheds light on it. Those who study more than just attacks on freemasonry and other orders find out just how much of the attacks is humbug.

 

I disagree. There are few, if any true "secrets" left. I've got tons of books on Freemasonry including Morals and Dogma (many are sympathetic like Born in Blood). Do I need to physically don the regalia, get hoodwinked and hit on the head to understand the symbolism?

 

Most of what fundamentalists use is taken either out of context or is only bad from their perspective.

Just because Weishaupt wanted to use the Blue Lodge, doesn't mean he did. There used to be lots of powerful men who were Masons. Lots of modern science became possible because of Masonry's connection with the Enlightenment and its principles. Now however, the Lodges are crumbling. They are having recruitment problems, and sagging membership numbers. If the "Illuminati" is working through the Blue Lodge, they are failing.

 

I agree about the fundamentalists taking things out of context which is why I avoid their objections based on a christian perspective. Let me clarify, I have nothing against Freemasonry per say. My problem is that I believe it was indeed hijacked by illuminists for nefarious purposes. In response to your second point, since Freemasonry was just being used as a tool by the Illuminists, when better tools become available they throw away the old ones.

 

Here is a good example of someone being scared of science. "Electro-magnetic power" is "black magic"....hmm, should we be using the internet?

 

I think the quote is from someone who is affraid of science's abuse for evil/selfish ends. The same technology that creates nuclear power can be used to create weapons of mass destruction. Likewise, the internet can be used for nefarious purposes such as datamining, and governmentspying on the populace

 

Also, where is a citation on this? "The Duke of Brunswick" is a title, not a name. Which one said this?

"The other "Duke" was Grand Master of "World Freemasonry" (a meaningless term considering all of the different disjointed branches)? But this one is just "German Freemasonry"? Again, without context this could be a complaint about Royalty being "dethroned" by the common people for all we know.

 

You can find many masonic sources for Duke Ferdinand of Brunswick and the 1782 Congress of Wilhelmsbad. Here's one from Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry which mentions that Baron von Knigge was present at the congress representing the Illuminatti by the way.

 

It is suprising that Pike is only mentioned once, usually Morals and Dogma is the number one tool for attacking Masonry. Again, when one actually meets 32nd and 33rd degree members and studies what the rituals etc. actually hold/mean one learns there is nothing scary about it.

 

I don't mention Pike much because I am not objecting to Freemasonry from a Judeo-Christian perspective. In fact I am not so sure I even disagree with THE Pike quote that fundamentalist and masonic apologists toss around so often. Again, I have a copy of Morals and Dogma, but only read maybe 1/4. It is a massive book and would require time than I have been able to commit.

 

And the "title" "Head of the Illuminati" is one without any historical evidence.

 

If I said Grand Exhalted Worshipful Elect Poobah of the Illuminatti would that make you feel better? It's a general term. The same way Sam Palmisano could be announced as the head of IBM when his technical title would be Chief Executive Officer. You can google the technical Illuminati grades and titles if you are so inclined. I am not sure what your point is.

 

All real evidence suggests that the Bavarian Illuminati died with Weishaupt.

Most of the rumors about the Illuminati being in control of various orders came from those orders trying to get "street cred" through the nineteenth century. It made it sound like they were "special" and not just like all of the other orders that sprung up around that time. The Skull and Bones may actually be scary, but the Masonic Lodges are little more than social groups with some forgotten symbolism (especially the American Lodges). The rites and information included therein can be beneficial to spiritual development, but most Lodges have lost their aspiration. Most of them would think you were nuts for doing any real practices, hell, most of them are protestants. Regardless, most orders that actually teach, have no connection to Freemasons other than being founded by a mason in some cases.

 

On the contrary, there is much evidence to suggest that the Illuminatti went underground, and many of its members were "absorbed" into Freemasonry. Other than that. I agree with most of what you say about the current state of Freemasonry. For the record have you read Proofs of a Conspiracy?

 

 

Brgds!

Edited October 31, 2008 by Oolong Rabbit

[Blind Owl]

For what it is worth, most Rosicrucians I have met are not Masons, none have any interest in the Illuminati, so I think we have strayed a little.

 

the six laws of the Rosicrucians as set down in the Fama Fraternitatis are:

 

1: That none of them should profess any other thing then to cure the sick, and that 'gratis'.

 

2: None of the posterity should be constrained to wear one certain kind of habit, but therein to follow the custom of the country.

 

3: That every year, upon the day C., they should meet together at the house 'Sancti Spiritus', or write the cause of his absence.

 

4: Every Brother should look about for a worthy person, who, after his decease, might succeed him.

 

5: The word R.C. should be their seal, mark, and character.

 

6: The Fraternity should remain secret one hundred years.

 

The symbol of the rose on the cross is not unlike that of the lotus.

[Yoda]

It's my understanding that this was basically a war between the Catholic church and various secret societies where negativities can run pretty high on either side. Having said that, my cursory knowledge of history gives the Catholic Church "the most consistently evil" award.

 

Imo, the illuminati factor would drift to whereever there is power in order to incite more fighting. In today's day and age, I'm sure they've diversified to governments, militaries, and subprime mortgage backed securities.

[Taoist81]

I disagree. There are few, if any true "secrets" left. I've got tons of books on Freemasonry including Morals and Dogma (many are sympathetic like Born in Blood). Do I need to physically don the regalia, get hoodwinked and hit on the head to understand the symbolism?

I agree about the fundamentalists taking things out of context which is why I avoid their objections based on a christian perspective. Let me clarify, I have nothing against Freemasonry per say. My problem is that I believe it was indeed hijacked by illuminists for nefarious purposes. In response to your second point, since Freemasonry was just being used as a tool by the Illuminists, when better tools become available they throw away the old ones.

I think the quote is from someone who is affraid of science's abuse for evil/selfish ends. The same technology that creates nuclear power can be used to create weapons of mass destruction. Likewise, the internet can be used for nefarious purposes such as datamining, and governmentspying on the populace

You can find many masonic sources for Duke Ferdinand of Brunswick and the 1782 Congress of Wilhelmsbad. Here's one from Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry which mentions that Baron von Knigge was present at the congress representing the Illuminatti by the way.

I don't mention Pike much because I am not objecting to Freemasonry from a Judeo-Christian perspective. In fact I am not so sure I even disagree with THE Pike quote that fundamentalist and masonic apologists toss around so often. Again, I have a copy of Morals and Dogma, but only read maybe 1/4. It is a massive book and would require time than I have been able to commit.

If I said Grand Exhalted Worshipful Elect Poobah of the Illuminatti would that make you feel better? It's a general term. The same way Sam Palmisano could be announced as the head of IBM when his technical title would be Chief Executive Officer. You can google the technical Illuminati grades and titles if you are so inclined. I am not sure what your point is.

On the contrary, there is much evidence to suggest that the Illuminatti went underground, and many of its members were "absorbed" into Freemasonry. Other than that. I agree with most of what you say about the current state of Freemasonry. For the record have you read Proofs of a Conspiracy?

Brgds!

 

As noted above, this thread is supposed to be about Rosicrucians, and while the Masons and the supposed Illuminati did interweave with Rosicrucian myth, this seems to be detracting from the topic. We do seem to agree that modern masonry, whether or not it was ever a tool for the "Illuminati", is benign. Also, to answer your question, no, you don't need to experience the rituals. Actually at this point with most (Grand Lodge of England) regular lodges you would probably not learn much of anything from the Lodges themselves. That said, reading initiation rituals is nothing like experiencing them. We will likely disagree all day long about whether the Illuminati died out as a small group, or is now in charge of the Council on Foreign Relations, so let's just leave it at that. We have both obviously done our studying and just reached different conclusions. By the way, there is lots of cool stuff in D&M, so when you have time you should flip through it more. Some is bland, some is interesting.