Life. A Chinese fable.

[Rara]

If you expect to play guitar like Hendrix or sing like Pavarotti you're bound to be dissapointed even in your own progress. if anything you should expect to play like yourself, to sing like yourself, to be as good as you can be and to never stop getting better.

 

Yeah, funny. This only just sank in a few days ago and you've just echoed my thoughts It's amazing how deluded we can be even when we tell ourselves we're not! Thank you...this is very encouraging and I feel that these words will help me especially in my current state of confusion!

 

@Marblehead Yeah haha...I think what I'm trying to get at is that I find myself running into these situations daily (not physical fighting of course) and then I reflect now...I did create every day that I have, so I can only fix that myself by er, pulling off the motorway and driving around in the countryside for a bit (as long as we're still using metaphors)

 

Bless this forum! Deuces.

[Marblehead]

Yeah, funny. This only just sank in a few days ago and you've just echoed my thoughts It's amazing how deluded we can be even when we tell ourselves we're not! Thank you...this is very encouraging and I feel that these words will help me especially in my current state of confusion!

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still have a problem with over-estimating my abilities and especially over-estimating how fast I can get a project done. And the older I get the slower I get. Hehehe. But all is well. I know I'm not as good as I think I am.

[Samurai Mountain man]

I know I'm not as good as I think I am.

 

"As you think, so shall you become."-Bruce lee

 

Whataaaaaaaaaaaaahoooooooooohhh.

[Marblehead]

"As you think, so shall you become."-Bruce lee

 

Whataaaaaaaaaaaaahoooooooooohhh.

Nice try but really, I could never be that good. Hehehe.

[chenping]

You're on a boat, on a river, in a valley. Overhead between the cliffs you see a white horse jump the gap and then it's gone.

Astonishing!

But where has it gone? Why are you in the boat in the valley?

Where are you going? You don't know; you never will know. That's life. That's it.

The only thing for certain is you saw the horse for that brief second, and it changed the way you felt.

 

A boat is a hole in the water you fill with money. If you filled a lot of money in that hole, you would not care where the horse has gone or why you are in the boat in the valley. You would not wonder where you are going. You would know. That's life and no brief distraction of any kind could change the way you feel about anything because you are neither clueless nor a loser.

 

The only thing for certain is that your boat has four decks, ten bathrooms, garages for your Ferraris and is propelled by two 3000 horsepower Caterpillar engines costing $2 million each. They are the modern-day equivalent of several hundred oarsmen that powered the boat of Ptolemy, the Pharaoh who ruled Eygpt 200 years before Christ.

 

Chinese fables are one of those relaxation things that put you to sleep when your life is so pointlessly boring that you need something, anything, to keep you from wanting to end it.

[Marblehead]

Chinese fables are one of those relaxation things that put you to sleep when your life is so pointlessly boring that you need something, anything, to keep you from wanting to end it.

I had to laugh - couldn't help myself.

 

All fables and fairy tales of all cultures are that way though, aren't they?

 

But then, when we look for more out of life than life can provide we are going to be disappointed and we will need our fables to keep us going. Those damned expectations!!!

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

my boat's a luxury liner in the deepest void between galaxies, simply existing perpetually, never growing, never shrinking, eternally stagnant yet pliable.

Still as the moon beneath the waves; ever flowing.

[chenping]

I had to laugh - couldn't help myself.

 

 

What were you laughing at? Be brave, be honest. What tickled you? It had to be either a truthful stab (of the Chuang Tzu kind) or a funny stab of a foolish kind.

All fables and fairy tales of all cultures are that way though, aren't they?

 

Not really. Generally, a lot of folk fables and fairy tales carry truthful moral messages. I like Aesop's fables and Grimm Fairy tales like Hansel and Gretel, Elves and the Shoemaker and Cinderella. Then we have fake stuff like this horseshit pushing a false message that justify being a clueless loser, demonizing responsible industrious way of life, and glorifying copping out to sleep on park benches or moving to Ecuador as a higher calling of the Tao.

 

But then, when we look for more out of life than life can provide we are going to be disappointed and we will need our fables to keep us going. Those damned expectations!!!

 

Disappointment never arises for winners who are always on the lookout for better things. This is not greed as losers want us to believe. This is the natural human spirit driven by a "God-given" excitement to discover life's limitless bounteous offerings. Life is good, and we've only just begun. Here is a song to brighten up your day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_p2oFc0p2s

Edited March 23, 2013 by chenping

[Marblehead]

I think I will just leave those questions/comments for others to consider and maybe comment to.

 

But the love song;

 

Funny that I woke this morning with one on my mind.

 

 

 

[chenping]

I think I will just leave those questions/comments for others to consider and maybe comment to.

 

Ok then but don't count on it.

 

But the love song;

 

Funny that I woke this morning with one on my mind.

 

 

 

 

Steppenwolf is heavy metal. You ride? And I don't mean a horse.

[Marblehead]

Ok then but don't count on it.

We'll see. If no one speaks to them I might go back and comment.

 

Steppenwolf is heavy metal. You ride? And I don't mean a horse.

I used to. My first bike was a Ducati when I was stationed in Italy. Sold that when I returned to the States and bought a 1974 Harley Sportster. Kept it for many years. Rode it many places in the US, Canada and Mexico. When I got married the last time I traded it for a car for the wife. That was the end of my riding.

[chenping]

I used to. My first bike was a Ducati when I was stationed in Italy. Sold that when I returned to the States and bought a 1974 Harley Sportster. Kept it for many years. Rode it many places in the US, Canada and Mexico. When I got married the last time I traded it for a car for the wife. That was the end of my riding.

 

Ducati? They are cool bikes. I ride BMWs and Hondas. But the style and the mystique will always belong to the Harley. You may not ride anymore, but you will always be a rider at heart.

 

I ride horses too but they are a whole different story. How come there are no American fables with a good moral message? What do you think about Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby? Does it count?

[Marblehead]

Ducati? They are cool bikes. I ride BMWs and Hondas. But the style and the mystique will always belong to the Harley. You may not ride anymore, but you will always be a rider at heart.

True. I mess with bikers as often as I can. I especially like telling Harley bikers to put a muffler on their bike. (Yes, I gutted mine. Hehehe.)

 

I ride horses too but they are a whole different story.

I don't do horses. Bad experience when I was a young kid and never wanted another similar experience.

 

How come there are no American fables with a good moral message? What do you think about Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby? Does it count?

Except for Johnnie Appleseed I can't really think of any strictly American fables.

 

I recognize the title but have no recall of the fable. Should I go read it? Hehehe.

 

Good American moral messages? Why are there none? I don't even know if there are any.

 

How about one from Bill Gates? (Paraphrase) "Don't be too nasty to the geeks. You may be working for one one day."

[chenping]

Good American moral messages? Why are there none? I don't even know if there are any.

 

Don't you think it ludicrous to be morally derisive of America? Everything from airliners to polio vaccine have come out of America. The entire world is driven by American ingenuity and awash with American products. Kids everywhere are chowing down American food and they love it. And the young around the world are dancing to American music, wear American fashion, watch American movies and they love it. Even the old enjoy a better quality of life on account of US medical technological advancements. Last but not least, we are all connected because of American technology. If America has no moral message because she is the great Satan, then the only way that makes sense is that we are all devils living in Taoist Hell.

Edited March 24, 2013 by chenping

[Marblehead]

Don't you think it ludicrous to be morally derisive of America? Everything from airliners to polio vaccine have come out of America. The entire world is driven by American ingenuity and awash with American products. Kids everywhere are chowing down American food and they love it. And the young around the world are dancing to American music, wear American fashion, watch American movies and they love it. Even the old enjoy a better quality of life on account of US medical technological advancements. Last but not least, we are all connected because of American technology. If America has no moral message because she is the great Satan, then the only way that makes sense is that we are all devils living in Taoist Hell.

Ah! I can't agree with your conclusion. You made some good points though.

 

I don't want to over-use this word but it all might be rooted in that word/concept "freedom".

 

Freedom to wonder, fredom to challenge existing dogma, freedom to find new ways of doing things. Yes, and even freedom to earn as much money as you possibly can.

[chenping]

Do you mean American morality is rooted in wanting to be free?

[Marblehead]

Do you mean American morality is rooted in wanting to be free?

I think so. Now, I know, this cannot really be seen now-a-days what with all the power our government has gained in controlling the people but I still believe that it is this that moves Americans (those who want to move - some prefer just sitting there and allowing government to force feed them)..

[chenping]

I think so. Now, I know, this cannot really be seen now-a-days what with all the power our government has gained in controlling the people but I still believe that it is this that moves Americans (those who want to move - some prefer just sitting there and allowing government to force feed them)..

 

You are so right. Freedom is indeed a moral value. It could be the root of all human values. If man is truly free, he wouldn't need to learn the Ten Commandments or the Tao Te Ching. We go looking for the eternal Tao in China and it was always here.

 

God bless America.

Edited March 25, 2013 by chenping

[Marblehead]

Thanks for the positive reflections.

 

And yes, even though I was speaking directly of America the concept applies to all poeples of all nations on the planet. Freedom allows us to do the best we can at what we can do the best. And we see direct benefits from our efforts.

[chenping]

I'm afraid the American freedom concept does not apply to China where each has a place in the scheme of things. Life has an implicate order. The I Ching tells us that. Violate that order and misfortune follows.

[Marblehead]

I'm afraid the American freedom concept does not apply to China where each has a place in the scheme of things. Life has an implicate order. The I Ching tells us that. Violate that order and misfortune follows.

Ah Ha! I'm gonna mess with you now. Hehehe.

 

The true nature of the being is the same whether it live in America, China, or Egypt. All else is learned, unnatural thought and behavior.

 

This is why Lao Tzu told us that we must unlearn in order to find our true Self.

 

As long as we humans keep telling ourself that there are differences between peoples of different nations, religions and cultures we will continue to concentrate on our differences instead of what we all have in common.

 

The China man is no defferent from an American man. Here in America we have China men. Their ancestry is 100% Chinese. And most do very well here in the US because they unlearned those aspects of Chinese culture that held them in a box and learned those cultural aspects, as well as the English language, that allowed them to be all that they could become - to fullfill their life.

 

An American of pure European stock could easily go to China and live successfully. Sure, it would be a little harder because China is still evolving toward allowing more freedom for its people but it is indeed evolving that way none-the-less.

 

Of course, where we live on this planet will play an important part in determining how much freedom a person will have. Lack of resources and over-population play a very important part in this.

 

But bottom line, the animal is what it is. It is the false information that is fed to us from the day of our birth that causes us to appear to be different. There is only one race of the human animal. That is Human, Only Human.

[chenping]

Ah Ha! I'm gonna mess with you now. Hehehe.

 

The true nature of the being is the same whether it live in America, China, or Egypt. All else is learned, unnatural thought and behavior.

 

Are you talking about primal human nature before enculturation? In other words, the nature of a clean unformatted computer hard-drive before installation of an operating system and other programs? How can this be applied to human nature? We are all not only the result of enculturation but also acculturation. You assume that If you remove all learnings because you deem them unnatural, you will arrive at a natural clean slate? Sounds logical. But I think it is the same kind of logic that deduces the possibility of digging a hole in the ground in Chicago to come up in Shanghai. After all the Earth is a round ball. Is it really?

 

This is why Lao Tzu told us that we must unlearn in order to find our true Self.

 

Which Chapter?

 

As long as we humans keep telling ourself that there are differences between peoples of different nations, religions and cultures we will continue to concentrate on our differences instead of what we all have in common.

 

But we are all different. We need and are attached to our cultural differences and would rather die than be deculturated. We are all like different kinds of flowers in a garden. What is a rose without the difference that distinguishes it from a lily?

 

The China man is no defferent from an American man.

 

You kidding, right?

 

Here in America we have China men. Their ancestry is 100% Chinese. And most do very well here in the US because they unlearned those aspects of Chinese culture that held them in a box and learned those cultural aspects, as well as the English language, that allowed them to be all that they could become - to fullfill their life.

 

Chinamen do well in any culture you find them. It's because of their Chinese cultural learnings that they succeed in cultures alien to their own. No human beings of another race is as capable at doing this. The Japanese has some of this survival skill. But don't fool yourself that they have to give up any aspect of their own culture in order to succeed in foreign lands. Even a Japanese Christian would tell you that he is, first, Japanese.

 

An American of pure European stock could easily go to China and live successfully. Sure, it would be a little harder because China is still evolving toward allowing more freedom for its people but it is indeed evolving that way none-the-less.

 

A little harder? Have you seen Daniel Craig in "Skyfall" as James Bond in Shanghai? My neighbor in Chicago told me the other day that her college-bound kid brother is dying to go back to Shanghai where he spent last summer tending bars. China is not evolving towards freedom at all. Free market capitalism was invented in China long before Christopher Columbus discovered America. The dragon is awakening from its slumber.

 

I don't think European Americans can culturally embed themselves in China as easily as the Chinese can transform themselves into Americans. But don't forget that American culture is not monolithic. Money open doors; otherwise, the class structure in America is as tight as the caste system of India.

 

 

Of course, where we live on this planet will play an important part in determining how much freedom a person will have. Lack of resources and over-population play a very important part in this.

 

As long as we are not in the herd, straw dogs, so to speak, freedom is assured regardless of geography. To be free, one has to disengage from the masses. This doesn't mean one has to join the ruling class and become a palace tortoise.

 

 

But bottom line, the animal is what it is. It is the false information that is fed to us from the day of our birth that causes us to appear to be different. There is only one race of the human animal. That is Human, Only Human.

 

If I were to disagree, would that make me racist? There must be a reason why people are so different in terms of everything: language, cuisine, look, skin color, customs. And to deny this obvious natural diversity is to be unnatural.

[Marblehead]

Marblehead said:

This is why Lao Tzu told us that we must unlearn in order to find our true Self.

You asked:

 

Which Chapter?

 

Marblehead responds:

 

So many places but a perfect example is Chapter 19, Line 12 (Henricks' translation):

 

12. Eliminate learning and have no undue concern.

 

 

PS I will get to the other parts of your post shortly.

[Marblehead]

Are you talking about primal human nature before enculturation? In other words, the nature of a clean unformatted computer hard-drive before installation of an operating system and other programs? How can this be applied to human nature? We are all not only the result of enculturation but also acculturation. You assume that If you remove all learnings because you deem them unnatural, you will arrive at a natural clean slate? Sounds logical. But I think it is the same kind of logic that deduces the possibility of digging a hole in the ground in Chicago to come up in Shanghai. After all the Earth is a round ball. Is it really?

Yes.

Yes.

Well, if Jimmie and Chang were both taught the same lessons and both excelled equally I would lay money on the suggestion that they both would hold tha same basic values.

 

In computer programming there is a saying, Garbage in; Garbage out. That is to say, you are going to be the person you are taught to be. Yes, we all are born with a blank slate as a brain.

 

No, digging a hole in Chicago in hopes of reaching Shanghai would be impossible. But teaching someone to be nice and accept only nice behavior from others is rather reasonable, I think.

 

 

But we are all different. We need and are attached to our cultural differences and would rather die than be deculturated. We are all like different kinds of flowers in a garden. What is a rose without the difference that distinguishes it from a lily?

Yes, many times I has said here on this board that we all are special and unique. To prefer to die rather than to be nice to others sounds pretty stupid to me. Yes, we all are different flowers in the garden (I liked that!) but we each have the same basic needs: room to grow, sunshine, water, and nutrients. Weeds get pulled out of the garden, you know. I would rather be a flower than be a weed.

 

You kidding, right?

Nope. I am as serious as a heart attack. What are some of the things a China man wants? I am absolutely sure that you will find the equivalent wants in the heart of American man as well. (Disregard all the cultural learning of things that they are told they are supposed to want. Only the basic human needs.)

 

Chinamen do well in any culture you find them. It's because of their Chinese cultural learnings that they succeed in cultures alien to their own. No human beings of another race is as capable at doing this. The Japanese has some of this survival skill. But don't fool yourself that they have to give up any aspect of their own culture in order to succeed in foreign lands. Even a Japanese Christian would tell you that he is, first, Japanese.

That all may well be. But it doesn't have to be that way. I remember a long time ago reading the during the T'ang Dynasty anyone who accepted the Emporer as the ruler of the world was considered a Chinaman. It worked well for a while.

 

A little harder? Have you seen Daniel Craig in "Skyfall" as James Bond in Shanghai? My neighbor in Chicago told me the other day that her college-bound kid brother is dying to go back to Shanghai where he spent last summer tending bars. China is not evolving towards freedom at all. Free market capitalism was invented in China long before Christopher Columbus discovered America. The dragon is awakening from its slumber.

No, I didn't see that one. The future of China is yet to be seen. America has already seen its better days, sadly.

 

I don't think European Americans can culturally embed themselves in China as easily as the Chinese can transform themselves into Americans. But don't forget that American culture is not monolithic. Money open doors; otherwise, the class structure in America is as tight as the caste system of India.

Abilities open doors too. I disagree regarding a caste-like system in America. It is really the least caste-like system on the planet. Abilities count more than anything else.

 

As long as we are not in the herd, straw dogs, so to speak, freedom is assured regardless of geography. To be free, one has to disengage from the masses. This doesn't mean one has to join the ruling class and become a palace tortoise.

Totally agree. That is why part of me is Nietzschean and another part is Chuang Tzuian.

 

If I were to disagree, would that make me racist? There must be a reason why people are so different in terms of everything: language, cuisine, look, skin color, customs. And to deny this obvious natural diversity is to be unnatural.

Yes. Hehehe. Now, I don't deny that there are sub-species variations. But look at butterflies, so many different shapes, sizes, colors, etc but each is none-the-less a butterfly and they all have the same basic needs.

 

Have you ever heard a butterfly sing? A rather horrible sound, actually. (Referring to an Iron Butterfly song.) But the butterfly is beautiful.

[Stosh]

Are you talking about primal human nature before enculturation? In other words, the nature of a clean unformatted computer hard-drive before installation of an operating system and other programs? How can this be applied to human nature? We are all not only the result of enculturation but also acculturation. You assume that If you remove all learnings because you deem them unnatural, you will arrive at a natural clean slate? Sounds logical. But I think it is the same kind of logic that deduces the possibility of digging a hole in the ground in Chicago to come up in Shanghai. After all the Earth is a round ball. Is it really?

 

 

Which Chapter?

 

 

But we are all different. We need and are attached to our cultural differences and would rather die than be deculturated. We are all like different kinds of flowers in a garden. What is a rose without the difference that distinguishes it from a lily?

 

 

You kidding, right?

 

 

Chinamen do well in any culture you find them. It's because of their Chinese cultural learnings that they succeed in cultures alien to their own. No human beings of another race is as capable at doing this. The Japanese has some of this survival skill. But don't fool yourself that they have to give up any aspect of their own culture in order to succeed in foreign lands. Even a Japanese Christian would tell you that he is, first, Japanese.

 

 

A little harder? Have you seen Daniel Craig in "Skyfall" as James Bond in Shanghai? My neighbor in Chicago told me the other day that her college-bound kid brother is dying to go back to Shanghai where he spent last summer tending bars. China is not evolving towards freedom at all. Free market capitalism was invented in China long before Christopher Columbus discovered America. The dragon is awakening from its slumber.

 

I don't think European Americans can culturally embed themselves in China as easily as the Chinese can transform themselves into Americans. But don't forget that American culture is not monolithic. Money open doors; otherwise, the class structure in America is as tight as the caste system of India.

 

 

 

As long as we are not in the herd, straw dogs, so to speak, freedom is assured regardless of geography. To be free, one has to disengage from the masses. This doesn't mean one has to join the ruling class and become a palace tortoise.

 

 

 

If I were to disagree, would that make me racist? There must be a reason why people are so different in terms of everything: language, cuisine, look, skin color, customs. And to deny this obvious natural diversity is to be unnatural.

Yes diversity exists right down to individuals and even stages of their lives,

Therefore the gross generalizations you put forth regarding people and cultures

are at their source baseless. The lumpings are artificial constructs -unnatural.

What does exist are many individuals , I could lump folks into nationalities

I could lump them into skin colors I could lump them into height ETC ETC

But the reality of the situation is THAT YOU HAVE only THE TRAITS YOU POSSESS

That Lao tzu was smart is no reflection on what your capabilities are any more than the

cruelty of Pol pot or Adolph Hitler.

Tall short small fast stupid smart genial crafty slow , the generalizations are always wrong

for the folks they dont fit.

Chinamen get along with everybody everywhere ?? bushtit!

 

PS There are plenty of folks making the same kind of generalizations, and hate the Chinese, as a result of it... but I doubt anybody has a problem with Icelanders.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Stosh