Tarot as a Magical Tool?

[RiverSnake]

One of those times where you wish you had a Linda Falario Shadow Tarot deck on you .

 

Now it becomes clear why I don't give workshops very often lol.

Hey Bagua, I was look at that deck and there seems to be this term "The Night Side of Eden" floating around on many books. Does this refer to the qlippoth aspects of the spheres? What is the night side of the tree?

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Just happened to check on when you posted.

 

The reference is to Nightside of Eden by Kenneth Grant, the last part of his 'Typhonian Trilogy'.

 

He originated the term and it does refer to qlippoth and other aspects which he developed, such as Cthulhu mythos and also a considerable amount of reference to Michael Bertiaux. All of which is rather 'messy' stuff.

[SonOfTheGods]

Tunnels of Set, useful "stuff"

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yes it involves the Tunnels of Set and so forth. It was a joke, definitely not a suggestion for anyone to go working with it . Though back when it came out there was definitely no relation to Bertiaux at all, he must have added that to his books later on. I'd be pretty worried about him writing about the Tunnels! Not that they can't screw someone up enough as it is, but yikes.

[SonOfTheGods]

Yes it involves the Tunnels of Set and so forth. It was a joke, definitely not a suggestion for anyone to go working with it . Though back when it came out there was definitely no relation to Bertiaux at all, he must have added that to his books later on. I'd be pretty worried about him writing about the Tunnels! Not that they can't screw someone up enough as it is, but yikes.

Geburah +/- Chesed = Set/Sutekh

[Apech]

Geburah +/- Chesed = Set/Sutekh

 

Why?

[SonOfTheGods]

Why?

entropy and reorganising = destroy and make way for the new

[Apech]

entropy and reorganising = destroy and make way for the new

 

OK

[Zhongyongdaoist]

It has been a long time since I have thought about either Grant or Beriiaux, I remembered in at least one book that Grant mentioned Bertiaux, as I note below:

 

Just happened to check on when you posted.

 

The reference is to Nightside of Eden by Kenneth Grant, the last part of his 'Typhonian Trilogy'.

 

He originated the term and it does refer to qlippoth and other aspects which he developed, such as Cthulhu mythos and also a considerable amount of reference to Michael Bertiaux. All of which is rather 'messy' stuff.

 

This drew the reply:

 

Yes it involves the Tunnels of Set and so forth. It was a joke, definitely not a suggestion for anyone to go working with it . Though back when it came out there was definitely no relation to Bertiaux at all, he must have added that to his books later on. I'd be pretty worried about him writing about the Tunnels! Not that they can't screw someone up enough as it is, but yikes. (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

Are you referring to Kenneth Grant's Nightside of Eden above? The 'he' is kind of a 'pronoun without a country' you might say.

 

This got me thinking and I could remember Outside the Circles of Time talking about Bertiaux. Thinking about Bertiux, got me thinking about how much I dislike his appropriation of Voodoo and also about his teacher, whom I remembered after some churning of old memories was named Lucien Francois Jean-Maine. I wanted to check that out and did a search under Lucien Jean-Maine because I was not sure of the Francois. Bertiaux's Wikipedia article came up, so I knew I had something right on his teacher's name and when I read it I was reminded of Cults of the Shadow as well. However, the article notes that:

 

Bertiaux's life and occult system are examined in Kenneth Grant's books, Cults of the Shadow (1975),[4] Nightside of Eden (1977),[5] Outside the Circles of Time (1980),[6] and Hecate's Fountain (1993).[7] Grant devotes two entire chapters of Cults of the Shadow to a discussion and analysis of Bertiaux's work in La Couleuvre Noir, as well as a portion of the chapter “Afro-Tantric Tarot of the Kalas."

 

I used to have all of these except Hecate's Fountain. I am not able at this time to know whether Wikipedia is right or not about Nightside of Eden mentioning Bertiaux, but it seems unlikely that if he was mentioned in Cults of the Shadow, that Bertiaux would not be mentioned in Nightside of Eden. I think I remember something about Bertiaux and his concept of voltigers (spelling?), practitioners who leapt from sphere to sphere, being in Nightside of Eden, but it has been a long time since I have read any of this, over 30 years, so while I definitely remember the concept in Grant, I am not sure where Grant may have mentioned it.

 

As a final note, I would like to make it perfectly clear, that I do not recommend the work of either Grant or Bertiaux. Grants first too books The Magical Revival and Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God, were interesting, but not of any great merit, after them he seemed to go from eccentric, to unbalanced, to crazy. As for Michael Bertiaux, I can't think of a single polite thing to say about him.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Oh wow, boy was I wrong on that one!

 

Well I have to say I definitely can't argue any of those points . I did try out a few things from the Grant writings, mostly tunnel related. It was interesting, and a type of growth inducing, but so are many other things. It was more one of the many things I tried out than anything of a path or working with long term. I had a couple of friends who were really into the Grant stuff, and went a little too deep. Then a couple of folks into the Bertriaux stuff who unfortunately got severely messed up.

[RiverSnake]

DP

Edited August 17, 2013 by OldChi

[SonOfTheGods]

Grant = force Gematria to say what you want it to say.

[Nungali]

Interesting topic this ... for me, since I am v.into Tarot.

 

The title grabbed me, as to me, tarot is one of my magical tools. Waaaay back 'then' when I was getting my four elemental weapons/tools together I had a clay disc for earth with a glyph (of polarity) either side. It used to sit on my little altar with the other tools but somehow it seemed to lack physical function ( for discs! ... oh dear!) ... it used to sit sometimes on my tarot deck (in its bag) ... then one day it hit me; of course! Since then my tarot deck has been my 'pentacle'. It can be used in many ways. (I believe 'fortune telling' to be a gross misappropriation of this tool - considering its potential). It contains soooo much within, I am not sure where to start. Many of the previous posts and quotes indicate great usages and insights but really, we are just scratching the surface compared to its potential.

 

One little 'scratch' or use ... or I should say, one technique with a range of uses, I often employed was to lay the whole deck out in a large space;

 

3 elemental trumps in the centre to make 'Earth',

 

out from this a ring of the zodiacal trumps, in order,

 

in between the planetary trumps (either by 'natural', natal or current positions depending on what is being worked),

 

Another ring outside the zodiac cards with Courts (minus Princesses and an outer ring of the minors ( 2 - 10 ) in their position by association via decan ( using G.D. attribution).

 

[Princesses and Aces usually aren't laid out (unless you want to go 3-D ) and considered to have terrestrial association with the north and south poles and give elemental association to areas of the earth divided by longitude... on this level the courts can come in with a cross reference and rule terrestrial areas divided by latitude.]

 

Usage:

 

To gain an insight into the relationship between tarot and astrology;

 

to have a tarot symbol view of an astrological chart or moment in time;

 

as a group exercise when starting a venture (each person sits on the outside of the card circle at the position of their birth and decan related minor card and we can see who is in opposition, trine, etc. with each other and what cards relate to their sector).

[Boundlesscostfairy]

I think if you see each of the cards as a spell....and therein the projected meaning of the card as the meaning of the magical spell itself..could be a key to understanding the magical ability of tarot..

 

For what more could you call magic in the tarot?

[Desmonddf]

I have used Tarot as both a way to magicaly work my energy (back when i used the 7-chakra system), magical weapons and also power sources for a personal altar i once assembled.

 

It worked wonders.

 

As long as you tap into the tarot symbols the right way, there are a lot of mysteries, powers, entities and energies you can access and, then, use them for whatever purpose you have.

 

I cannot tell you the way i used, however, since i don't know how to do it, haha. I just sensed the energy and used the cards as portals, weapons and so on. I'm very sensitive to the energy the Rider Waite tarot emits continuously, so.... it was kinda easy, but highly unconcious. I just followed my inspiration on the moment.

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Desmonddf said:

I have used Tarot as both a way to magicaly work my energy (back when i used the 7-chakra system), magical weapons and also power sources for a personal altar i once assembled.

 

It worked wonders.

 

As long as you tap into the tarot symbols the right way, there are a lot of mysteries, powers, entities and energies you can access and, then, use them for whatever purpose you have.

 

I cannot tell you the way i used, however, since i don't know how to do it, haha. I just sensed the energy and used the cards as portals, weapons and so on. I'm very sensitive to the energy the Rider Waite tarot emits continuously, so.... it was kinda easy, but highly unconcious. I just followed my inspiration on the moment.

 

What do you mean by   ' cards as weapons '  ?

 

I see the  four aces as representations of the 4 elemental weapons ,  but the other cards ?   or do you just mean the  Trumps and their associations via  Column XLI of Liber 777  ?

 

 

Or  ....

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[Boundlesscostfairy]

I see tarot as a meta map.. cartography.. legends and sextants.. Astrology.. sigils and magic.. though you will find that each tarot card has a categorical imperative..

 

You wont be able to deny the true value or meaning of a reading or as in a single card pulled from the deck.. which is supposed to represent supreme or absolute potential.. Each tarot represents a category in mind and existence

[Integrated]

I personally don't like to think about tarot as a magical tool.

I end up doing pretty much the same methods that magical oriented people do,

but I classify it as a psychological tool.

 

On the surface things seem mostly similar, but the subtle differences become bigger the deeper one goes.

Not that one perspective/way is better than the other, just different paths with similar aims.

Although with different trappings and different ways of looking at what is going on.

 

I guess I'm too much of a materialist to be able to fully embrace it as magic.

I have in the past delved into having a magical approach to the cards and elements.

Burning spells, burrying them in the ground, scatter them in the wind and throwing them into bodies of water.

At one level such actions are powerfully symbolic and does indeed have an impact on how one sees the issue.

It is sort of like the extra work is a sacrifice to deepen the promise to oneself that the spell in many ways represent.

In my view such symbols attach to the unconscious and drives one to syncronistically get to ones destination.

It in many ways acknowledges the limits to our consciousness power.

The ego does not like to be told it is not in charge, and sacrificing time, effort and material in a ritual,

is a way to accept and submit to the inner forces that drives us, at least in the areas defined by the spell/promise.