zen stories

[wenwu]

i love readig the zen stories, sometimes just for fun and sometimes to try to get something out of them, i came across a few good sites on the internet and on one of the m was this story

 

 

Whenever anyone asked him about Zen, the great master Gutei would quietly raise one finger into the air. A boy in the village began to imitate this behavior. Whenever he heard people talking about Gutei's teachings, he would interrupt the discussion and raise his finger. Gutei heard about the boy's mischief. When he saw him in the street, he seized him and cut off his finger. The boy cried and began to run off, but Gutei called out to him. When the boy turned to look, Gutei raised his finger into the air. At that moment the boy became enlightened.

 

 

i really dont get this one on any level, does it make sense to anyone else?

[voice]

My sense of it while reading is that the boy, now fingerless, would have tried to raise his finger in imitation of the master. The boy realized that the motion transcended the embodied state.

 

I am sure there are many ways of reacting to, or "getting", the story and that that is what is special about zen stories -- they do not have a clear moral and are thus open, wild and uncontained.

 

Chris

[thelerner]

The boy was lucky it was just a finger, in other Zen stories people lose there arms! Obviously the moral is don't give a zen master the finger. or its not about copying an action its about having the unfettered mind and spirit.

 

Here's one of my favorate Zen tales: One of the guilty pleasures at a Zen Monastery was listening to a Master's dying Haiku. For years they would be retold, compared and discussed. Nearing death one of the oldest and most esteemed Monks Banqui was asked, what are you final words? He said, "I am afraid to die" and was dead.

 

This disturbed the younger monks greatly. One asked a Master "If master Banqui was enlightened how could he give such an anwer?"

 

The master replied, "Banqui was indeed enlightened. Above all Zen is honest"

 

 

I wrestled with this Zen piece for a while. 'The sign above the gates leading to enlightenment read "Abandon all hope, ye who Enter". Why?

 

 

Michael

[mbanu]

Not in the slightest, of which I am relieved.

Edited February 11, 2007 by mbanu

[agharta]

One of my favorites:

 

A man-eating demon decides to become a monk. (Zen, Taoist, it doesn't matter). The demon dons robes, says prayers, eats vegetarian food, or at least not people, says prayers, and in general is a good monk. After 10 years of filing down his horns and teeth and living the life of a monk, the demon gives up and kills all the monks in the place. As he is finishing drinking the blood from their corpses, the abbot of the monastery returns, surveys the scene, smiles, and says "Good! Now you are getting it, finally..."

 

[thelerner]

The man eating demon monk does have echoes of 'cutting off the finger' in it.

 

Michael

[eatyourgreens]

that is exceptional.

where did you hear it -- is there a textual source?

 

 

One of my favorites:

 

A man-eating demon decides to become a monk. (Zen, Taoist, it doesn't matter). The demon dons robes, says prayers, eats vegetarian food, or at least not people, says prayers, and in general is a good monk. After 10 years of filing down his horns and teeth and living the life of a monk, the demon gives up and kills all the monks in the place. As he is finishing drinking the blood from their corpses, the abbot of the monastery returns, surveys the scene, smiles, and says "Good! Now you are getting it, finally..."

 

[wenwu]

my current take ont he story is this:

 

while the young boy was running around making fun of the old man is attention was always on the old man, by cutting the boys finger off he brought the boys attention back to himself, the man raises his finger at the end to show to keep his attention in the present and on himself not let it wander to other people

 

i expect my answer will change next week bu t that is it for now.

[thaddeus]

my current take ont he story is this:

 

while the young boy was running around making fun of the old man is attention was always on the old man, by cutting the boys finger off he brought the boys attention back to himself, the man raises his finger at the end to show to keep his attention in the present and on himself not let it wander to other people

 

i expect my answer will change next week bu t that is it for now.

I like your take on the story..

agree the answers must always change..

 

I wrestled with this Zen piece for a while. 'The sign above the gates leading to enlightenment read "Abandon all hope, ye who Enter". Why?

Michael

This one strikes me as quite humorous..hope means you are living in the future and not embracing now.

T

[thelerner]

I like your take on the story..

agree the answers must always change..

This one strikes me as quite humorous..hope means you are living in the future and not embracing now.

T

 

Right, What I got from it is that hope implies a wishing for better in the future. In Enlightenment there is only now, and that is enough.

 

 

Hopefully We're right

 

Michael

[wenwu]

yeah right on with the gate story

 

no future, no hope, only the present moment

[soaring crane]

The boy cried and began to run off, but Gutei called out to him. When the boy turned to look, Gutei raised his finger into the air. At that moment the boy became enlightened.

 

 

Because the boy was no longer living an imitation. He couldn't.

Edited February 15, 2007 by soaring crane