logical analysis & synthesis of immortality & its methods

[Wells]

Hey dudes,

 

I've read enough frustrating threads where there are big misunderstandings because people use old cryptic terms like "jing", "shen", "yin", "yang", "yuan chi", "immortality" and so on. In different schools and lineagues there are different understandings of these terms which eventually lead to strong misunderstandings and this prevents a mutual understanding and a fruitful discussion that could further a deeper understanding of the truth that lies behind the goals and methods of those old traditions which are occupied with achieving "immortality". Some guys even just want to mesmerise other people by indulging in cryptic terms and statements, which only prevents any progress at all.

 

Therefore I want to "cut the crap" in this thread and want to try to analyse with you guys/gals the goals of and the methods that lead to immortality of the different traditions from a modern pov, in modern terms and with logical understanding to carve out the similaries of these different traditions to be able to conclude a synthesis which explains logical in modern terms what immortality is and how it can be achieved.

 

("Cryptic" terms can be used in this discussion, but please make sure to explain them appropriately, so everyone can understand what you mean! This thread is thought to lead to further and deepen understanding, not to spread mysticism!)

 

Let me try first:

 

1) What does the traditions mean with "immortality"?

Immortality means the survival of the conscious functioning personality forever and beyond bodily death. So this seems not to be a given in the theories of these traditions compared to the theories in the abrahamic religions for example!

This goal means either that the personality survives in some sort of stable personal energy field that will "hold it together" or that the person's body doesn't die or that the person even transform its body into energy and includes this energy to create "a stable energy field".

Other traditions claim that the conscious personality could "endure" when it fuses with a greater energy energy field that permeates the universe ("tao").

 

 

3) What happens to people who don't achieve that goal?

Their conscious personalities cease to exist, one way or another. This is the end result of a life-long leaking out or wearing down of the person's energy and usually happens at the point of bodily death.

Some traditions claim that the conscious personality simply goes out like a flame (which could be compared to the dominating opinion of modern science) or that their energy scatters completely and therefore their structure get's destroyed, others claim that they get born again as other persons or animals with a wiped out memory. Other traditions claim that only a "downgraded" version of the personality survives death as a "ghost" who is very limited in its cognitive functions.

 

 

2) Why and how do the traditional methods actually work or are supposed to work?

The "energy" of a person is thought to be limited and to leak out via sexual activities, mind activities and simply all activities in life. Therefore the traditions have developed their theories of how to stop the leaking out (via methods of "consolitation" of energy) and of how to refill or restore the stock of energy a person has to the level of a newborn or even beyond. "Consolitation" of energy would mean for example to store energy in a closed room (like "tantien") or to fuse different volatile energies which tend to "evaporize" or "leak out" to a more stable energy ("the fusion of shen and jing", "kan & li") or to a primal precurser source energy of these energies.

"Refilling" or "restoring" energy can include "reversing" the energy flow from out to in to bring in outside energies into the personal energy field or by the transfering of matter into energy and infusing it into the personal energy field or stock.

 

 

Please share your own insights and opinions! The more these are thought through and explained in modern terms, the more helpful and understandable these will be for the other participants of the thread!

Edited March 23, 2013 by Dorian Black

[puretruth01]

Ok i train in mo pai and im a student of jim. How does this relate with what i train in?

 

Im asking mainly because i was interested in what you said about the yuanchi being a battery in the ldt that you posted about in another thread.

 

Can you tell us more about the battery in the ldt and what i feels like and how it differs from mo pai? Have you attained this battery in the ldt?

 

Thanks in advance

[Wells]

Ok i train in mo pai and im a student of jim. How does this relate with what i train in?

 

Im asking mainly because i was interested in what you said about the yuanchi being a battery in the ldt that you posted about in another thread.

 

Can you tell us more about the battery in the ldt and what i feels like and how it differs from mo pai? Have you attained this battery in the ldt?

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

Hello,

 

I pm'd you because it would be off-topic and lead to the hijacking of this thread to aswer your questions here!

If you have further questions to me that don't fit the purpose of this thread, please ask me via PM.

 

thank you

Edited March 23, 2013 by Dorian Black

[puretruth01]

Hello,

 

I pm'd you because it would be off-topic and lead to the hijacking of this thread to aswer your questions here!

If you have further questions to me that don't fit the purpose of this thread, please ask me via PM.

 

thank you

 

 

Ok i thought this thread was "The Logical analysis synthesis of immortality and its Methods" and mo pai is a taoist methodical way of attaining immortaltiy. So i dont know how my questions are off topic.

 

Also btw dorian didnt answer my questions he just asked me not to post off topic. So if anyone else has an answer to my above questions id really appreciate it.

[RongzomFan]

I assume this thread is only about chinese traditions?

[Wells]

I assume this thread is only about chinese traditions?

 

No, feel free to add info about other traditions (from Tibet or whatever) as long as "immortality" is the goal (for example Mo Pai is not taoist) and as long you can describe it in modern scientific terms (energy, field, wave, consciousness, matter, personality, vibration, frequency, amplitude, density, closed container, coherence, signal, transforming,...) how it works and don't try to mystify it!

 

The tradition should work with energies and not on an extreme abstract level, with "virtues", "symbols" and stuff like that! I guess we wouldn't be able to integrate that stuff into a unified theory, that we try to synthesize here!

 

What info should be given about the tradition anyways is:

 

Why and how does the method actually work or is supposed to work?

Edited March 23, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Wells]

The reason for using modern terms is that everybody who is not expert in the terms of the tradition will be able to understand the theory and there will be no misunderstanding if those terms are used in other traditions for different things!

Also, we want to filter out / carve out the similaries in the theories of the different traditions!

[voidisyinyang]

The irony of immortality is that the more power you have means that the deeper into the Emptiness "you" go so that there is less of "you" as an egotistic personality with what people consider "normal" personality traits.

 

So I have seen ghosts and qigong master Chunyi Lin confirmed they were dead people going to him to get healed and that this happens to him regularly - they are attracted by his energy.

 

But I have recently read how actually those ghosts have to be "animated" by the qigong master and otherwise they have no personal intention. This was an Indian yoga book - so basically this is the "yin spirit" that I saw but it is not the actual spirit that goes to heaven. My take is that the energy is left here near earth for people who have lower emotional blockages -- and so then this energy is attracted to strong chi energy and so then gets sucked back into strong chi energy.

 

So the truly immortal energy is also truly impersonal -- it is not based on individual awareness. But it is like how Sri Aurobindo describes it - there is always an alternating state of awareness -- the spirit energy is personal but the Emptiness is impersonal. Or as Chunyi Lin says - the consciousness goes into the Emptiness. This process itself is immortal but the energy itself is always transforming.

 

So the more chi energy a person stores up then this powers their spirit for astral travel and so they can retain individual awareness for a longer period of time if they can go far into the sky - into space. But as Master Nan, Huai-chin says even if they are in the solar system there will still be a cosmic catastrophe eventually that will destroy their individual spirit.

 

And so individual immortality does not exist and again that is the irony of it - because even to create individual spirit with power there has to be a greater merging into the impersonal Emptiness.

 

The more a person uses power for individual intentions then the more they have to rebuild that power by reharmonizing it with the impersonal Emptiness. This is why "siddhis" in India are discouraged compared to "shakti" which is considered power that emerges impersonally -- not even necessarily with the individual's knowledge that it happened.

 

So in Mahayana Buddhism the goal is to maintain individual awareness of the powers even though the source of the powers is from the impersonal Emptiness - this is called Supreme Complete Enlightenment. Supposedly this enables Buddha to travel and manifest anywhere in the whole universe. This is true to the extent that the Universe is inside each of us holographically -- the Emptiness as the Universe is impersonal and so if we merge with it then effectively we are everywhere at the same time.

 

But the "yang spirit" is physical bilocation which has also been independently documented in the Western mystic tradition -- D. Scott Rogo's book Miracles is a good source. So ultimately a person is supposed to be able to make "multiple" physical bodies and yet retain awareness of all of them at the same time. Chunyi Lin said he was told he had made another physical body or yang spirit outside of his house while he had been inside meditating - in China. So he had not been aware of making the physical body. Poonjaji in India made multiple physical bodies at the same time as detailed in David Godman's biography Nothing Ever Happens but like with Chunyi Lin he was not aware he had made the other physical bodies.

 

So supposedly if a person has good intentions - and this is something I can personally read in others - then their spirit energy is in the upper half of their body - the electromagnetic spirit energy -- and so when they die they will go to heaven. This is confirmed in the Tibetan monk tradition - when the person has died the monk feels the body to see which part of the body gets cold last. If the spirit has left out of the lower body then it gets cold last and the person has gone to hell. Again this is based on if the electromagnetic spirit is stuck in the lower body then the person's spirit is possessed or controlled by the lower negative emotions.

 

So reality is holographic - the Universe is within us and we are within the Universe. When we go deepest into our heart soul energy then we go through all our past lives and also to the "highest" astral realm but that is still based on the individual ego mind - the 7th level of consciousness in Mahayana Buddhism. To get to the "universe" as immortality then the consciousness of the body - the energy of the body -- has to be harmonized or built up -- the jing energy -- and then we can use that energy to get to the 8th level of consciousness which is beyond the heart and therefore beyond death.

 

So a person can temporarily transcend death through astral travel or an NDE experience or even through a visionary drug like DMT - or Salvia Divinorum - or even Nitric Oxide - but for eternal liberation then the person's ego has to completely take their body energy to go past the heart energy. This would mean being able to dematerialize the physical body and as Master Nan, Huai-chin says the finger nails, the hair and the bones are the most difficult to harmonize into the Emptiness. So usually these are left behind when a master travels into heaven by dematerializing their body energy.

 

At that point they are taking their chi energy which is made from their jing energy and using that chi energy to travel to the highest astral level but again it is still their individual ego doing this -- whereas the Emptiness as immortality remains impersonal.

 

So the spirit is coherent light as laser light. The laser can be weak as with the ghost yin spirit but it is still coherent - shaped like a human. I know this because I saw dead people! But also a qigong master can make multiple yin spirits out of the top of their head - I also saw Chunyi Lin do this and he confirmed they were his yin spirits. So they would form - one would form out of the top of his head while he was in full lotus - shaped like a human but yellow and then it would break off and float out into the room. Chunyi Lin said his yin spirits were going out to heal people. So as soon as one broke off from the top of his head and then another one would begin to form, and so on.

 

So he was creating multiple yin spirits at the same time as they all coexisted in the same room at the same time.

 

But the Emptiness is not light as spirit energy rather it creates light as spirit energy. So the impersonal Emptiness as the Universe is this eternal process of energy creation through the complementary opposites - the yin and yang or electrochemical emotional energy and the electromagnetic energy. So then the intensity of the energy is just building that energy up to create physical transformations -- the energy has to be stored up and this enables levitation and creating other physical bodies. So then the spirit light gets brighter and more intense -- and this is the golden aura of the immortal energy.

 

So this person then embodies the Emptiness as the brightest most intense light but at the same time they are also the most impersonal individual existing.

 

Also chunyi Lin says there is no "center" to the universe - so again even if the highest astral realm is achieved -- the spirit will still eventually be recycled or turned back into physical energy -- and this cycle just is eternal as the Emptiness or Universe.

 

At the level of the Emptiness the consciousness is non-local -- beyond space and time -- but this is a connection that then creates the energy needed to transform itself -- it is an eternal process of transformation. So that any energy blockages are really just a learning tool or growing pain that is a symptom of future healing. So everything is connected and flows through a deeper love energy via the heart as the immortal soul or impersonal energy creation source.

Edited March 23, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Birch]

" So that any energy blockages are really just a learning tool or growing pain that is a symptom of future healing"

 

Good news

 

'Future' for who? If this whole impersonal thing stands?

[voidisyinyang]

" So that any energy blockages are really just a learning tool or growing pain that is a symptom of future healing" Good news 'Future' for who? If this whole impersonal thing stands?

 

Well language is always dualistic but basically the left brain is the ego individualistic awareness and the right brain as the Wisdom spirit energy that can be immortal beyond the physical body but then the Emptiness is not visible nor known through conceptual knowledge -- yet the Emptiness is the only thing that is truly eternal -- the Emptiness is the process of energy transformation.

 

So the healing requires going into the Emptiness which is quantum non-local consciousness beyond the future or the past -- but then the healing energy created is spirit energy that can go into the future or travel from the future as precognition and then change the past as healing energy.

 

The left brain ego as language then is a lower vibration that brings it back to "normal" modern awareness dependent on physical technology and linear time.

 

In the trance state the energy is still transforming but at a higher frequency so there is still left brain language awareness but only for a brief moment and then this is just to process the holographic future -- and also the holographic external and internal relationship -- so that a question asked about a blockage perceived is then answered as a future healing which was already there holographically because something perceived to be external actually already exists internally. And so the energy just keeps cycling like that with the eternal present is the Emptiness as this process of energy transformation which is impersonal.

 

Another way to think of this is that higher frequency energy is just more internal as deeper spirit energy in the future - and so our deep subconscious desires are actually projected out into the future to be karmically fulfilled.

Edited March 24, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Birch]

Right.

For all multiverses?

[voidisyinyang]

Right. For all multiverses?

 

multiverses are byproducts of attempts at a unified field theory which inherently does not exist due to the limitations of measurement. So the concept of multiverse is a play toy of scientists -- http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=4715 with no conceivable means of proof in the near future.

 

Science is based on quantum physics which is limited by the time-frequency uncertainty principle.

 

This time-frequency uncertainty principle is the opposite extreme of the Tai Chi symbol.

 

So time-frequency uncertainty creates a paradox in Einstein's relativity because as energy goes up in frequency towards the speed of light then time also goes up in wavelength since time slows down due to relativity. This paradox is not allowed in physics due to the inverse relation of time period to frequency or wavelength amplitude to frequency -- the Law of Pythagoras.

 

So de Broglie created the Law of Phase Harmony which has two time clocks so then when frequency is zero then phase as time is infinite creating faster then light information signaling. But then science makes a technological measurement changing phase into amplitude and this collapes the uncertainty principle so it aligns with linear causation of relativity.

 

So most scientists state that quantum physics can not violate the linear causation of Einstein's relativity because science inherently relies on "collapsing" the wavefunction by using technology to detect the energy -- except for the Quantum Zeno Effect which enables measurements to take place at a faster rate then the technological detection of the energy.

 

So it is postulated that in quantum biology like for photosynthesis and bird migration there is the Quantum Zeno Effect taking place which actually enables 100% efficiency of energy transfer due to quantum superposition or quantum faster than light signaling or quantum tunneling -- depending on how someone interprets the quantum physics. But it does exist - it is delaying the collapse of the wave-function in reality. This effect can not be reproduced through technology but has been demonstrated to exist in life -- and is postulated to explain the sense of smell in humans based on quantum frequency changes even though the physical molecule is the same.

 

So science is inherently limited because there is no "infinitesimal" measuring tool - it is inherently impossible or as scientists state the quantum "infinite potential" literally does not physically exist until it is measured -- or the wavefunction is collapsed. So any superliminal communication exists after the fact -- according to mainstream science that can be reproduced by technology.

 

This is similar to nonwestern shamanism as the Emptiness is impersonal and then the visionary information has to be translated back into left brain linear time. So for example if a person has a vision that is precognitive -- then the person has to train to be able to interpret that vision properly. So a precognitive vision is actually "more real" then being awake in linear time or even a normal dream state -- since a precognitive vision is superconsciousness. But it's only through experience that the person can train to recognize this as it occurs in real time.

 

For example in the dream state a male could be about to ejaculate - which is a real event in linear left brain dominant time -- but the male needs to recognize in "real" non-linear dream time that the dream to ejaculate is not just a dream but "more real" than being awake -- since a male would not normally ejaculate with no control while awake. Or it could be just training as "staying power" while awake and having sex - and so the ejaculation is called "little death" - a moment of going into the Emptiness.

 

Yeah so this is a tunnel experience from the black hole to white hole but there is a reversal of spacetime -- so a reversal from left brain to right brain via the pineal gland as the hole.

Edited March 24, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[RongzomFan]

No, feel free to add info about other traditions

 

This is about physical immortality:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-Khecarividya-Adinatha-Translation-ebook/dp/B000SEK1C0/ref=tmm_kin_title_0

[voidisyinyang]

Sometimes, I'm like what? when I read your stuff. But I realize once I understand some more of quantum physics and math then I'll get what your saying. How can you beat a guy who spent ten years reading a scholarly book a day in full lotus? haha

 

What books do you think will help in me translating all of these quantum terms? You should list the important books that you think a person should read.

 

 

Also how is Tao related in all of this? since the Tao seems to be beyond emptiness.

 

 

ummm -- yeah books for me were just a tool of "intellectual self-defense" so that no one could attack me for being crazy -- in a cult or something. But books -- thinking -- goes against the real meditation training.

 

So science is the mythology of our times -- everyone thinks it's objective truth -- but it's actually a fantasy realm that limits people's breakthrough to reality.

 

As Chunyi Lin says he doesn't have time to read books - he's too busy healing people.

 

So for example I sit in full lotus at the computer just because I need to be "on call" for my family -- and so it limits my meditation time - I am still working on this. I have taken my mom to experience a free sample of the qigong master healing and so now she says that I can meditate and she will make sure I am not disturbed. It's nice to no longer be attacked as lazy for meditating -- but at the same time I really can't claim my own time for meditating -- if I am needed then I have to stop meditating.

 

So I can't really recommend science books -- I would say that science is best learned as a trade skill in practice with technology -- in a lab or factory, etc.

 

I am a luddite myself - I've never had a cell phone and I don't like using them or cordless phones.

 

So Chunyi Lin did read the book "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot which is based on quantum physics -- both David Bohm and Karl Pribram. Bohm extended the work of de Broglie's quantum physics using superliminal signalling -- the "pilot wave" that enables precognitive information, etc. Pribram argues that consciousness as information is stored holographically -- not in any one brain location -- but rather as a network defined by time, not space.

 

Neither Pribram nor Bohm can prove their models but Chunyi Lin said that book "The Holographic Universe" is an accurate description of what reality is like for a qigong master.

 

Ideally a person would just meditate more and read less so I can't really recommend books -- Talbot himself died early from brain cancer despite his book promoting spiritual healing. So he didn't successful apply the methods he was researching. It is a risky game to think books or any external technology can provide the proper guidance.

 

The best book to study in my opinion is "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" and when I first promoted that book on this forum people got mad at me saying the book is too dangerous and people should not read it! haha. So that is the sign of a good book. But it is true if you practice that book - since it is a practice manual - it is very powerful and effective but also gets dangerous as the energy advances. Master Nan, Huai-chin and Bodri describe this - how since it's a tantra manual really the direct supervision of an energy master is needed.

 

The one conceptual tool that is both the goal and the process is the I-thought. Just repeat the I-thought and hold onto the I-thought and listen to the source of the I-thought and this will be a sufficient intellectual guide for the most advanced levels of meditation.

Edited March 24, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Birch]

Drew, that sounded great and I understood roughly not very much of it but some it, especially the interpretation of psychic stuff stuff - which became obvious to me at some point in practice did make sense. Which is a hugely dangerous way for me to go about understanding things that are described in the way you wrote above. However, I will make an effort to get these ideas. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

[Songtsan]

The one conceptual tool that is both the goal and the process is the I-thought. Just repeat the I-thought and hold onto the I-thought and listen to the source of the I-thought and this will be a sufficient intellectual guide for the most advanced levels of meditation.

 

Can you get more detailed about this? Do you mean the perception of 'I'? Or the sense of Self? If one is directly thinking the thought 'I' or 'I am,' and one is just feeling bodily sensations with very little abstract thought, maybe there is just a feeling of 'me-ness' is the I-thought still a good thing to hold onto?

[voidisyinyang]

Can you get more detailed about this? Do you mean the perception of 'I'? Or the sense of Self? If one is directly thinking the thought 'I' or 'I am,' and one is just feeling bodily sensations with very little abstract thought, maybe there is just a feeling of 'me-ness' is the I-thought still a good thing to hold onto?

 

O.K. Nisargadatta taught the "I AM" enquiry but Ramana Maharshi said NO! -- not "I AM" - but just I. Repeat I-I-I in the mind but not as a mantra -- just as a beginning tool to concentrate the mind as logical inference.

 

So basically you listen to the source of the I-thought as logical inference.

 

Any thought we have is based on the I-thought. So when ever a thought arises just repeat I in the mind as that thought arises from the I-thought.

 

So empty out the thoughts by holding onto the I-thought as all thoughts are based on the I thought.

 

Now repeat I-I-I until the I-thought is concentrated and congealed and this will stop the thoughts.

 

Then listen to the source of the I-thought and Ramana Maharshi said if you want to focus on the body then focus on the right side of the heart as that is the secret energy center that goes to the source of the I-thought -- or what Mahayana Buddhism would say as the source of the ego 7th level of consciousness to the 8th level of consciousness as universal impersonal consciousness.

 

Physiologically the left side vagus nerve goes to the right side of the heart - and so by emptying out the left brain language then you activate the right side vagus nerve but then by building up the right brain visionary energy of light then you activate the left side vagus nerve.

 

The right side vagus nerve pulls up all the lower body serotonin which has a blue spectrogram -- blue light increases serotonin and seeing blue light is considered activating the spirit energy.

 

So then the left side vagus nerve turns the serotonin into heart oxytocin love bliss energy and as this meditation deepens then the chi electromagnetic energy increases and if this energy is stored up then the shen spirit light energy increases.

 

So the real meditation is when the body is filled with chi energy that then increases the shen spirit energy -- called Immortal breathing or nirvikalpa samadhi - and at this stage you can go without thoughts for a long time - but whenever a thought arises you empty it out again by returning to the I-thought.

 

So in this way there is no "dead tree zen" state because a mantra becomes repetitive and mindless while focusing on the source of the I-thought is a logical pursuit of inference - the true Self is this infinite process of logical inference that is formless and can not be seen but it does create the mind energy as spirit light love energy.

[Songtsan]

O.K. Nisargadatta taught the "I AM" enquiry but Ramana Maharshi said NO! -- not "I AM" - but just I. Repeat I-I-I in the mind but not as a mantra -- just as a beginning tool to concentrate the mind as logical inference....

 

Okay...I'll check that out. Thanks!

[idiot_stimpy]

Mooji stayed with Papaji for several months. During one particular satsang meeting, Papaji told him: “If you desire to be one with truth, 'you' must completely disappear.”

[idiot_stimpy]

It seems that peoples search for immortality, in the effort to keep the EGO alive after the death of the physical body.

Edited March 25, 2013 by idiot_stimpy

[Wells]

Drew,

 

thank you very much for your input so far! Maybe you could make an abstract of Chunyi Lin's methods to reach Immortality.

I saw two basic exercises for Level 1 of his system on youtube.

 

One was an exchange of the energies between kidneys, heart (and head) along the center line of the torso, a typical exercise for consolidation and fusion of consciousness and life to prevent further leakage of these energies and to reunite them to their primordial unity.

 

The other was breathing in from all directions the energy of your environment into your system to store it into tantien. This is for storing up energy into your system, so you don't burn out.

And also exhaling negative signals out of your system.

 

How does the way continue further?

 

It seems that peoples search for immortality, in the effort to keep the EGO alive after the death of the physical body.

 

Keeping the evil ego alive? Well, I guess all the immortals have become devils then, right?

Edited March 25, 2013 by Dorian Black

[idiot_stimpy]

Keeping the evil ego alive? Well, I guess all the immortals have become devils then, right?

 

Well that depends on how you define the ego, being either good or evil, or neutral.

[Wells]

Well that depends on how you define the ego, being either good or evil, or neutral.

 

I define it as "conscious personality", and that would mean my true "me".

 

I don't hate myself and have a healthy relationship with myself and therefore I want myself/ my "Ego"/ my conscious personality to exist forever...like every healthy person wants to!

 

I suspect that all these people who want to "destroy their ego" in fact just subconsciously hate themselves and having a very unhealthy relationship with themselves...or at least with dominating parts of their personality! Maybe they have been told all day long by their parents or other authority figures how bad they are!

If someone doesn't like certain characteristics of his/her personality, he/she should get to work to change these characteristics to the better. That's healthy!

But many people are just so sick and think that they are completely bad...well instead of falling for esoteric stuff like "opening up for the cleaning light" to "destroy their bad ego" they maybe should simply get therapy!

 

btw, terms like "good", "bad" and "neutral" depend on the point of view and are therefore relative and not absolute terms!

For example if you lose a $100 bill and I find it, then this incident was bad for you and good for me!

 

Or some things might be bad for you short term but good for you long term...or the other way around.

Let's say you have the weakness to be scared of conflicts. If you decide to engage in conflicts then, it may be ugly and like hell the first times and you may lose the conflicts and feel like shit. But if you stick to this decision long term, this may help you develop your interactive skills and may lead to winning most of your conflicts and to feeling great about yourself and to grow your self-esteem.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Dorian Black

[voidisyinyang]

I define it as "conscious personality", and that would mean my true "me".

 

I don't hate myself and have a healthy relationship with myself and therefore I want myself/ my "Ego"/ my conscious personality to exist forever...like every healthy person wants to!

 

I suspect that all these people who want to "destroy their ego" in fact just subconsciously hate themselves and having a very unhealthy relationship with themselves...or at least with dominating parts of their personality! Maybe they have been told all day long by their parents or other authority figures how bad they are!

If someone doesn't like certain characteristics of his/her personality, he/she should get to work to change these characteristics to the better. That's healthy!

But many people are just so sick and think that they are completely bad...well instead of falling for esoteric stuff like "opening up for the cleaning light" to "destroy their bad ego" they maybe should simply get therapy!

 

btw, terms like "good", "bad" and "neutral" depend on the point of view and are therefore relative and not absolute terms!

For example if you lose a $100 bill and I find it, then this incident was bad for you and good for me!

 

Or some things might be bad for you short term but good for you long term...or the other way around.

Let's say you have the weakness to be scared of conflicts. If you decide to engage in conflicts then, it may be ugly and like hell the first times and you may lose the conflicts and feel like shit. But if you stick to this decision long term, this may help you develop your interactive skills and may lead to winning most of your conflicts and to feeling great about yourself and to grow your self-esteem.

 

Near the end of the JOe Rogan podcast with Dr. Amit Goswami they get into free will - and how free will is an illusion when in the non-local consciousness realm....

 

http://llnw.libsyn.com/p/b/9/8/b98384af2f1baf8e/p334.mp3?s=1364265035&e=1364276961&c_id=5473114&h=ff216032bf2ac3a4f5dc4b10f61b470d

 

Basically Yan Xin says that intention is "bi-directional" and so any error of intention can be reversed - -but it's a learning curve.

 

Umm for example Yan Xin was in a car that died so he looked up to an electrical wire and pulled the energy down into the car engine which then started smoking - oops too much energy. haha.

 

So any egotistical siddhi power has to be reversed back into the Emptiness in order to reharmonize the energy. A blockage heals in the opposite direction and vice versa....

 

This process is eternal since we always already exist in non-local consciousness or the Emptiness -- and so consciousness as the ego is not the same as the Emptiness but the I-thought on its own is like a tool to use the ego against itself.

 

So only the I-thought is not self-referential -- there is nothing that it signifies and it is not the signified.

 

For example Noam Chomsky says if humans did not have I-language then humans could have the perceptions of other animals like rats seeing ultraviolet light and whatever -- basically all the yoga powers -- including immortality.

Edited March 26, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Wells]

This process is eternal since we always already exist in non-local consciousness or the Emptiness -- and so consciousness as the ego is not the same as the Emptiness but the I-thought on its own is like a tool to use the ego against itself.

 

So only the I-thought is not self-referential -- there is nothing that it signifies and it is not the signified.

 

 

LOL! I had to post that video now!

 

Well, I am I, if I think of myself as I or not! If I cut in your arm, you will feel the pain and not I. If I cut in my arm, I will feel the pain. Therefore it's pretty logical that I am connected with only my body and not anyone elses and that my "I" is located in only my body!

 

 

For example Noam Chomsky says if humans did not have I-language then humans could have the perceptions of other animals like rats seeing ultraviolet light and whatever -- basically all the yoga powers -- including immortality.

 

Ermm..you don't really believe that, do you?

btw, since when have animals no ego...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aGj-Y0shIs

Edited March 26, 2013 by Dorian Black