logical analysis & synthesis of immortality & its methods

[Simple_Jack]

http://zenanddao.blogspot.com/2011/09/full-emptiness-empty-emptiness-and.html

 

Here's a nice overview on emptiness.

 

I don't do "labels" - so the whole quest for the official Buddhist answer is hilarious.

 

But this thread was started with a question on immortality - for a Buddhist perspective on immortality I would recommend reading Measuring Meditation -- by Bodri and Nan. But for a more Theravedin take on immortality I recommend reading the biography of Phra Achran Mun which is not discussed by Bodri and Nan. haha. You can read that free online as Theravedin monks are required to provide information for free. haha. http://www.thaibuddhism.net/Achan_Man.pdf

 

But the Emptiness I'm talking about at the least is what is called Nirvikalpa Samadhi -- Master Nan gets into this also.

 

I'll post some quotes to give an idea..

Thanks for the info on the Thervadin monk! I've already come across the other info though, but thanks! I wouldn't completely trust Bodri's info on what "sexual tantra" is.

 

Anyways, I was asking because you're mentioning 'emptiness,' 'nirvikalpa samadhi,' Nan Huaijin and making comparisons that, IMO, just don't fit together....Especially since you're mentioning what 'emptiness' means in Buddhism...For the record 'emptiness' in Buddhism is not a meditative absorption or experiential state: It's essentially a realization (there is the term nirvikalpa-jnana.)

 

The first quote of Nan Huaijins is dealing with the 'transformation' of vijnana into wisdom when buddhahood is reached.

 

I was just curious as to why you were throwing around all these concepts is all.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Simple_Jack

[johndoe2012]

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Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[Kasuku]

John Chang's master trained him for hours with the painful horse stance to develop his discipline.

I acknowledge the worth of this exercise for this purpose, but there is no connection to Mo Pai level 1 training at all ("pooling chi into tantien").

 

Well idk, i mean i don't train the horse stance at all, but if i go into one the chi condenses to the dantian and bones by itself.. But not as strong as condensing breathing of course, which i think is way better! Also i guess full lotus adds for more stability. But i agree with you that its pointless if you don't know what ur doing with your mind!

Then Drew must be level 72 already for all the time he spend in full lotus (incl. sitting before the computer in full lotus!).

Drew, please load up a video on youtube where you prove your amazing chi powers that result from your years of pooling up chi in your Tantien to the level of an atomic bomb and I immedeately throw my Clyman DVD's out of the window and just train full lotus for the rest of my life!

 

HAHAHA... drew what do you say!!?? Now whats this flexing the pineal gland thing?

[Kasuku]

(Ur blog is very interesting!)

[voidisyinyang]

I wouldn't completely trust Bodri's info on what "sexual tantra" is.

 

Yeah but Gary Clyman says males can watch porn to activate their jing energy while they are building up the lower tan tien.

 

This is exactly the opposite of what Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality states which is a book that Gary says he has studied. haha.

 

So the point being there has to be the mind spirit going into Emptiness in order for the jing energy to be turned into chi energy.

 

This is why all these "semen retention" threads are b.s. -- if the goal is "retention" then it's completely absurd. haha.

 

Why would not "trust" Bodri on tantra? I don't even trust myself -- so I wouldn't rely on trust -- but you seem to think they are pushing bad information or something. Everything Bodri has written on tantra seems not only accurate to me but very perceptive.

 

For example Bodri states how yes a person can take the jing energy of someone else but if a tantrik is relying on taking in other people's hormone energy this is dirty energy and so the person might as well get a hormone shot. haha.

 

So Bodri states how in tantra the level of emptiness is limited to emptying out the Realm of Desire and only emptying out the lower level of the Realm of Form -- this is also the truth of my experience.

 

Master Nan also says how the deeper the samadhi then the greater the orgasmic bliss in the body - this is important for a meditation master to state since a lot of masters are too traditional to reveal the erotic aspect of practice.

 

As Chunyi Lin says to get to an advanced level of Emptiness there can be no thoughts about sex -- and so obviously this is why real energy masters are so rare. haha.

 

I've seen so many threads on TTBs about Buddhists bickering about terminology -- it's hilarious! haha.

 

That's why I rely on full lotus. Chunyi Lin says if you want to see if someone is a real energy master just see how long they can sit in full lotus in ease without moving.

 

People say different things about full lotus - that it will charge up the lower tan tien or open up the leg channels, etc. but actually the form of the full lotus is the most direct and easy form to circulate and build up the energy. But sitting in full lotus and using a computer or watching t.v. - you get healing effects but it's not nearly as powerful as actual meditation in full lotus. haha.

 

I was becoming a Buddhist monk in a monastery set up by my Burmese friend and he told me that Buddhism is not full lotus meditation nor fasting. Then he told me to read the books in the monastery and I discovered how "achievement of cessation" for the first level of samadhi is a week long fast. haha.

 

So people have very different ideas about what Buddhism is and mainly there is a lot of hang up about concepts. That's why cross-cultural analysis is so powerful.

 

For example all of this meditation stuff comes from the original human culture - the Bushmen culture - and they did everything in terms of energy immortality training!

 

So do they need all these specialized terms? No! In fact the Bushmen rely on jibberish songs from the females singing all night to increase their energy. Sure some of the healing songs used by the males do have certain meanings but their main reliance on words are jibberish words. haha.

 

Chuang Tzu also makes this same point -- the words of humans are the same as the jibberish that birds make.

 

This is not to say that qigong masters can not communicate with birds! haha.

Edited March 27, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[voidisyinyang]

Well idk, i mean i don't train the horse stance at all, but if i go into one the chi condenses to the dantian and bones by itself.. But not as strong as condensing breathing of course, which i think is way better! Also i guess full lotus adds for more stability. But i agree with you that its pointless if you don't know what ur doing with your mind!

 

HAHAHA... drew what do you say!!?? Now whats this flexing the pineal gland thing?

 

Actually my jing energy is low because I did five years of free healing! haha.

 

I have had several males ask me to post videos of the "O at a D" on youtube but that is a complete misunderstanding of the process.

 

I have never charged for an "O at a D" experience and the "O at a Ds" have been spontaneous and in public.

 

Also I stopped doing "O at a Ds" when I finally got a phone healing from qigong master Chunyi Lin and he said it was great I could give females bliss but that until I stored up the chi in my lower tan tien then my transmissions would always be weak.

 

I knew this was true but I just needed to hear it from Chunyi Lin so then I immediately stopped flexing my pineal gland and also the crap smell I was off-gassing got dramatically better.

 

As Chunyi Lin says food "goes to the head" for qigong people -- this is from the vagus nerve connection to the pineal gland. Master Nan, Huai-chin says to eat five small meals a day.

 

Anyway so I was transmitting my jing energy into chi energy right away without first purifying the jing energy into chi energy via the heart and lower tan tien. So when I "flexed" my pineal gland all the lower body jing energy would go up -- the sex fluids but also the anaerobic crap bacteria. So all the toxins would leach out of my skull -- out of my gums and even my eyes. haha.

 

So the "O at a D" is not to be taken lightly - it is full on tantra as in even crap has as much Emptiness in it as anything else. haha.

 

So sometimes I fasted to purify my body while doing "O at a Ds" -- so I did a ten day fast like that but again since I was still transmitting the jing energy as soon as I took it in -- turning it into chi before I purified the jing energy -- so even after ten days of just drinking liquids -- I was still off-gassing crap smell.

 

So that gives some importance to the crucial need to not just store up the energy but also to empty out the thoughts -- to have mind celibacy - to create the real qi energy.

 

But I have no regrets - I have five years of memories of tantric O at a D mutual climaxes all day long while I read one scholarly book a day in full lotus. Yes it was wild and crazy but anyway I was sticking it to the Man. haha.

 

But yeah I didn't just take in female sex energy and have mutual climaxes with females - I also took in other lower emotional blockages like anger or sadness -- and total strangers thanked me for this!! So it was pretty awesome. So it was very much "emotional liposuction" as Gary calls it.

 

But again those are weak transmissions compared to when I had my "enlightenment experience" as Chunyi Lin called it and I was going into Nirvikalpa samadhi -- at that time my chi energy was much stronger but that was in 2000.

Edited March 27, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Simple_Jack]

Why would not "trust" Bodri on tantra?

Well from what I heard, consort practices involve a lot of shall we say...getting 'hot and heavy.'

 

Nirvikalpa samadhi isn't even the highest attainment in Vedanta:

 

 

Just linking this for the this particular paragraph http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Enlightenment/Ramana_Samadhi.htm Ramana Maharshi on Samadhi

Question : What is samadhi?

Ramana Maharshi : The state in which the unbroken experience of existence-consciousness is attained by the still mind, alone is samadhi. That still mind which is adorned with the attainment of the limitless supreme Self, alone is the reality of God.

When the mind is in communion with the Self in darkness, it is called nidra [sleep], that is, the immersion of the mind in ignorance. Immersion in a conscious or wakeful state is called samadhi. Samadhi is continuous inherence in the Self in a waking state. Nidra or sleep is also inherence in the Self but in an unconscious state. In sahaja samadhi the communion is con-tinuous.

 

Question : What are kevala nirvikalpa samadhi and sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi?

Ramana Maharshi :The immersion of the mind in the Self, but without its destruction, is kevala nirvikalpa samadhi. In this state one is not free from vasanas and so one does not therefore attain mukti. Only after the vasanas have been destroyed can one attain liberation.

 

Question : When can one practise sahaja samadhi?

Ramana Maharshi : Even from the beginning. Even though one practises kevala nirvikalpa samadhi for years together, if one has not rooted out the vasanas one will not attain liberation.

 

Question : May I have a clear idea of the difference between savikalpa and nirvikalpa?

Ramana Maharshi : Holding on to the supreme state is samadhi. When it is with effort due to mental disturbances, it is savikalpa. When these disturbances are absent, it is nirvikalpa. Remaining permanently in the primal state without effort is sahaja.

 

Question : Is nirvikalpa samadhi absolutely necessary before the attainment of sahaja?

Ramana Maharshi : Abiding permanently in any of these samadhis, either savikalpa or nirvikatpa, is sahaja [the natural state]. What is body-consciousness? It is the insentient body plus consciousness. Both of these must lie in another consciousness which is absolute and unaffected and which remains as it always is, with or without the body-consciousness. What does it then matter whether the body-consciousness is lost or retained, provided one is holding on to that pure consciousness? Total absence of body-consciousness has the advantage of making the samadhi more intense, although it makes no difference to the knowledge of the supreme.

 

Source: from David Godman Excellent Book "Be As You are"

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah it seems like it turns into a big mess. It confuses me so much that I can't stop thinking for a whole day straight and then I'm exhausted from too much thinking. So obviously there's millions upon millions of different opinions. Funny thing is they're all related.

 

Man, I feel for Shakymuni Buddha. That guy had a chance to finally be alone and cultivate and then became a Buddha.

Kinda of a rarity nowadays. So much talk, so little practice. Then we go around yelling off our heads at each other haha. That was one reason that at a time, I refrained from debating.

 

So Drew I see why when you did your meditation practice, you stayed away from the computer.

 

well speaking of comparative information - I doubt there was even a man named Buddha, etc. It's just a Solar myth - the same as Jesus and Krishna as Acharya S. points out http://truthbeknown.com

 

But it's not just computer debates but more so -- if a person stays in their room to meditate then if anyone knows about it they will freak out. haha. As your energy builds up people are attracted to the energy - even through the walls, etc.

 

So then it's stated for advanced level of training you want a retreat in Nature -- so that is what Chunyi Lin did at Shaolin for three months and then at http://qigongmaster.com for the two month cave meditation - non-stop full lotus with no sleep and next to no food and water.

 

Obviously that type of training is very dangerous - but consider how rare it is!

 

For example when I did my intensive training I moved nine times in one year - desperately looking for a good place to meditate. then I scoured the internet looking for some place on the planet - some monastery or something - but I could find no teacher who compared to Chunyi Lin in the level of energy transmissions he does.

 

So yeah like my friend sponsored a Tibetan monk and then visited him in India and basically the monk just read books for years - and the monk desperately wanted to do the cave meditation but he was not allowed.

 

So even in Tibet when a person reaches the full tan tien stage so they have strong tummo energy -- then they leave the monastery to go do solitary cave meditation maybe with a couple other monks who have achieved that level of energy. whether that happens today is questionable after the Chinese crackdown but there's probably a few left.

 

There is a book on Ladkhi yogis and the same thing - the real energy masters practice alone in the caves but they are dying off and so the tradition of real energy masters is disappearing.

 

I had someone post on my blog how they had traveled China and India searching for energy masters and they still didn't get their knee healed from a full lotus injury and so they wanted to get more healing from Chunyi Lin. haha.

[voidisyinyang]

Well from what I heard, consort practices involve a lot of shall we say...getting 'hot and heavy.'

 

Nirvikalpa samadhi isn't even the highest attainment in Vedanta:

 

Well achieiving "sahaja samadhi" is a big confusion in the Advaita Vedanta scene.

 

For example I posted on David Godman's forum - or a forum he responds on -- that Ramana Maharshi achieved "eternal liberation" only after he did nine years of nirvikalpa samadhi and then his heart stopped for over ten minutes - there by finally "cutting the knot" of the ego to the body. So now with each breath his mind empties out beyond his body.

 

Anyway David Godman stated that no Ramana Maharshi had achieved eternal liberation when he first had a nirvikalpa samadhi when Ramana wanted to see what death was like when he was around 16 years old.

 

So then you get all these White Spiritual Gurus claiming they have achieved sahaja samadhi and it's total bunk - and they travel around.

 

Poonjaji said the big problem was that Westerners would come to study with him and then the Westerners would just shack up for sex.

 

Even Poonjaji wondered whether he had achieved sahaja samadhi - the only way to know is to keep practicing self-enquiry meditation! The practice is the goal - it is eternal energy as consciousness.

 

So that is why Bodri and Nan criticize Ramana Maharshi as not having achieved Supreme Complete Enlightenment.

[Kasuku]

from the TAO YOGA BOOK

 

"...the proper method and inquire whether or not it consists of gathering outside air to turn it into the alchemical agent. If the teacher denies this and says that his method is to turn back the flow of generative force to fortify the body so that it will be restored to its original condition before

puberty and cause the penis to cease standing during sleep and to retract, his is the authentic method.

As to the alchemical agent, if the practiser is unmindful

of it when gathering it, it is the prenatal microcosmic agent, but if he is mindful of it it will be an illusory agent which leads only to failure."

"You should not only know when this agent is not being made but also distinguish its premature from i. production. For the mere gathering of deficient vitality leads to no result; you will not avoid death and your long efforts will be in vain. Therefore, it is most important to produce and sublimate the (microcosmic outer) alchemical agent.

The immortal Ts'ao Huan Yang said: 'Even when you are busy relax a little to sublimate the outer agent in order to gather prenatal vitality from nothingness."

"But never try to gather fresh air to make good the dissi­ pation of generative force and so restore vitality in the body, which is sheer nonsense."

"Therefore, alchemy consists first in controlling the heart

(the seat of fire) so that it cannot be stirred by the seven emotions (pleasure, anger, sorrow, joy, love, hate and desire) and upset by the five thieves; the six sense organs are immobilised and the generative force cannot be easily aroused.

The five thieves are: the eye, ear, nose, tongue and body. When the eyes see a form the love of it steals the generative force; when the ears hear a sound the desire for it stirs the generative force; when the nose smells fragrance covetous­

ness of it dissipates the generative force; when the tongue

tastes food fondness for it drains the generative force away;

and when the body feels touch, stupidity arises to injure the generative force. If these five thieves are allowed to injure the body day and night, what will remain of the generative force? If it flows away spirit is bound to disperse and the body will perish.

A practiser should regard his body as a country and the

generative force as its population. Unstirred generative force ensures security for the population, and the fullness of spirit and (vital) breath increases the prosperity of the country. Likewise in his quest for immortality he should fight hard with the enemy to achieve prenatal vitality."

According to this my generative force thats flowing around in me is definitely not pure LOL!

The book also states the generative force is pure when there is no longer an erection (ie spontaneous erections at night!) so does this means, if someone follows the immortal path one cannot have a baby cause all his generative force has been sublimated!???

[voidisyinyang]

from the TAO YOGA BOOK

 

"...the proper method and inquire whether or not it consists of gathering outside air to turn it into the alchemical agent. If the teacher denies this and says that his method is to turn back the flow of generative force to fortify the body so that it will be restored to its original condition before

puberty and cause the penis to cease standing during sleep and to retract, his is the authentic method.

As to the alchemical agent, if the practiser is unmindful

of it when gathering it, it is the prenatal microcosmic agent, but if he is mindful of it it will be an illusory agent which leads only to failure."

"You should not only know when this agent is not being made but also distinguish its premature from i. production. For the mere gathering of deficient vitality leads to no result; you will not avoid death and your long efforts will be in vain. Therefore, it is most important to produce and sublimate the (microcosmic outer) alchemical agent.

The immortal Ts'ao Huan Yang said: 'Even when you are busy relax a little to sublimate the outer agent in order to gather prenatal vitality from nothingness."

"But never try to gather fresh air to make good the dissi­ pation of generative force and so restore vitality in the body, which is sheer nonsense."

"Therefore, alchemy consists first in controlling the heart

(the seat of fire) so that it cannot be stirred by the seven emotions (pleasure, anger, sorrow, joy, love, hate and desire) and upset by the five thieves; the six sense organs are immobilised and the generative force cannot be easily aroused.

The five thieves are: the eye, ear, nose, tongue and body. When the eyes see a form the love of it steals the generative force; when the ears hear a sound the desire for it stirs the generative force; when the nose smells fragrance covetous­

ness of it dissipates the generative force; when the tongue

tastes food fondness for it drains the generative force away;

and when the body feels touch, stupidity arises to injure the generative force. If these five thieves are allowed to injure the body day and night, what will remain of the generative force? If it flows away spirit is bound to disperse and the body will perish.

A practiser should regard his body as a country and the

generative force as its population. Unstirred generative force ensures security for the population, and the fullness of spirit and (vital) breath increases the prosperity of the country. Likewise in his quest for immortality he should fight hard with the enemy to achieve prenatal vitality."

According to this my generative force thats flowing around in me is definitely not pure LOL!

The book also states the generative force is pure when there is no longer an erection (ie spontaneous erections at night!) so does this means, if someone follows the immortal path one cannot have a baby cause all his generative force has been sublimated!???

 

 

It's just a matter of intention. The intention should first be on "eternal nature" which is the term in that book for the Emptiness.

 

So at first there is retention of the reproductive organ but when the lower tan tien is full of jing then there is spontaneous erection at 11 pm but if the erection is from "false fire of the heart" - lust - then it is not actual activation of jing energy since it can not be used to create chi energy.

 

On the other hand if there has been lustful thoughts and erection then it has to be stopped before there is ejaculation and so then the sex fluid has to be reversed and then it has to be burned back into jing energy and then purified through mind Emptiness into chi energy.

 

So for example if someone just does reverse breathing this does not sublimate the sex fluids into the cerebrospinal fluid above the heart and so when the person pisses then the piss will be foamy which indicates the sex energy was still stuck in the prostate.

 

So yeah basically if there is not mind Emptiness or mind celibacy then the training can help with health and happiness to exorcise lower emotional blockages and also to develop real love energy but it is not going to create real chi energy. This is why chi energy is so rare - it is considered more valuable than gold in China. haha.

[voidisyinyang]

Did you seek/try out a good feng shui practitioner to clear/brighten your physical space?

 

Well it would be more like the feng shui -- I mean Chunyi Lin says if qigong is practiced enough then you can change the energy of the whole house. This is true but you really do have to practice a lot. haha.

 

Someone once asked me about feng shui in Manhattan and my response was like - c'mon it's Manhattan -- I mean it's pure apocalypse it's way beyond feng shui treatments. haha.

 

I would say this is pretty much true anywhere -- Chunyi Lin talks about feng shui quite a bit and he will do recommendations sometimes for people.

 

But yeah I just rely on full lotus to transform or exorcise energy blockages.

[voidisyinyang]

So, you speak of feng shui without having an experience of its benefits then. I'd rather try it once, or twice - to see if it worked, than move nine times.

 

the moving was because I could sense people's energy through the walls! haha. That's when Chunyi Lin recommended when the energy gets advanced a person should practice in retreat in Nature.

 

O.K. so here is Ramana Maharshi on Sri Aurobindo:

 

 

M.: You are always in the Self - now, in trance, in deep sleep, in Realisation. If you lose hold of the Self and identify yourself with

the body or the mind, these states appear to overtake you, and it also looks like a blank in trance, etc.; whereas you are the Self

and ever-present.

D.: Sri Aurobindo says that the Light which resides in the head must be brought down to the heart below.

M.: Is not the Self already in the Heart? How can the all-pervading Self be taken from one place to another?

 

and

 

 

A gentleman from Bombay said: “I asked Mother in Sri Aurobindo Ashram the following question: ‘I keep my mind blank without

thoughts arising so that God might show Himself in His true Being.

But I do not perceive anything.

“The reply was to this effect: ‘The attitude is right. The Power will come down from above. It is a direct experience’.”

So he asked what further he should do. M.: Be what you are. There is nothing to come down or become

manifest. All that is needful is to lose the ego, That what is, is always there. Even now you are That. You are not apart from it.

The blank is seen by you. You are there to see the blank. What do you wait for? The thought “I have not seen,” the expectation to see

and the desire of getting something, are all the working of the ego. You have fallen into the snares of the ego. The ego says all these

and not you. Be yourself and nothing more!

and

 

 

They further asked for Maharshi’s opinion of Sri Aurobindo’s Yoga, and his claim to have probed beyond the experiences of the Vedic

rishis and the Mother’s opinion of the fitness of her disciples to begin with the realisation of the Upanishadic rishis.

M.: Aurobindo advises complete surrender. Let us do that first and await results, and discuss further, if need be afterwards and not

now. There is no use discussing transcendental experiences by those whose limitations are not divested. Learn what surrender

is. It is to merge in the source of the ego. The ego is surrendered to the Self. Everything is dear to us because of love of the Self.

 

Ramana Maharshi continues:

 

The Self is that to which we surrender our ego and let the Supreme Power, i.e., the Self, do what it pleases. The ego is already the Self’s.

We have no rights over the ego, even as it is. However, supposing we had, we must surrender them.

D.: What about bringing down divine consciousness from above?

M.: As if the same is not already in the Heart? “O Arjuna, I am in the expanse of the Heart,” says Sri Krishna “He who is in the sun, is

also in this man”, says a mantra in the Upanishads. “The Kingdom of God is within”, says the Bible. All are thus agreed that God is

within. What is to be brought down? From where? Who is to bring what, and why?

Realisation is only the removal of obstacles to the recognition of the eternal, immanent Reality. Reality is. It need not be taken from

place to place.

D.: What about Aurobindo’s claim to start from Self-Realisation and develop further?

M.: Let us first realise and then see.

Then Maharshi began to speak of similar theories: The Visishtadvaitins say that the Self is first realised and the realised

individual soul is surrendered to the universal soul. Only then is it complete. The part is given up to the whole. That is liberation and

sayujya union. Simple Self-Realisation stops at isolating the pure Self, says Visishtadvaita.

The siddhas say that the one who leaves his body behind as a corpse cannot attain mukti. They are reborn. Only those whose bodies

dissolve in space, in light or away from sight, attain liberation.

The Advaitins of Sankara’s school stop short at Self-Realisation and this is not the end, the siddhas say.

There are also others who extol their own pet theories as the best, e.g., late Venkaswami Rao of Kumbakonam, Brahmananda Yogi

of Cuddappah, etc.

The fact is: There is Reality. It is not affected by any discussions. Let us abide as Reality and not engage in futile discussions as to

its nature, etc.

 

and

 

 

A visitor asked Sri Bhagavan about the ‘over-mind’, and ‘super-mind’,

the ‘Psychic’, the ‘Divine’ of Sri Aurobindo’s terminology.

M.: Realise the Self or the Divine. All these differences will disappear.

[Kasuku]

It's just a matter of intention. The intention should first be on "eternal nature" which is the term in that book for the Emptiness.

 

So at first there is retention of the reproductive organ but when the lower tan tien is full of jing then there is spontaneous erection at 11 pm but if the erection is from "false fire of the heart" - lust - then it is not actual activation of jing energy since it can not be used to create chi energy.

 

So are you saying all that big draw stuff that chia people do is useless, since the false fire cannot create chi energy?

On the other hand if there has been lustful thoughts and erection then it has to be stopped before there is ejaculation and so then the sex fluid has to be reversed and then it has to be burned back into jing energy and then purified through mind Emptiness into chi energy.

 

Why cant you purify this jing by condensing it into the bones and vibrating it, instead of the emptiness?

So for example if someone just does reverse breathing this does not sublimate the sex fluids into the cerebrospinal fluid above the heart and so when the person pisses then the piss will be foamy which indicates the sex energy was still stuck in the prostate.

So can we just leave the the jing thats circulating in the orbit in the heart area for longer to purify it or there must be emptiness to do it? Mopai guys don't seem to be big on emptiness and purifying generative force yet tehy still create the ball of YUAN CHI (TAIJI) at level 3 with purely energetic intentions.

So yeah basically if there is not mind Emptiness or mind celibacy then the training can help with health and happiness to exorcise lower emotional blockages and also to develop real love energy but it is not going to create real chi energy. This is why chi energy is so rare - it is considered more valuable than gold in China. haha.

ITs seems tremendously difficult for people in this modern age (esp youths) to engage in the emptiness. Ive have the Wang Liping manual where the foundation includes sealing the leaks (physical an mental) like the tao yoga book, which include the realm of ambition. So how does a person with other passions and ambitions engage in purifying the generative force. There must be another way instead of emptiness.

[Kasuku]

OH and lets say u work on emptiness for 100 days to get the shen light and send that to your dantian to get the spark... then you can go back to your old self cause uve already got the thing you need... haha

I guess we should all go spend couple months in the mountain, then we'll be done with emptiness for the time being!

[Kasuku]

Also there was a technique in the liping manual that he warns not to practice if you wanna have children!!

[voidisyinyang]

Also there was a technique in the liping manual that he warns not to practice if you wanna have children!!

 

Was it castration? haha.

 

Umm the Emptiness is always-already everywhere -- you can also call it "formless consciousness" or the Tao....

 

O.K. so the Mo Pai method and Gary Clyman's method -- the whole packing energy into the lower tan tien - yes that is crucial.

 

Essentially -- the heart center is activated by Emptying out the mind -- which then causes your spirit energy to descend.

 

So basically if you have your eyes closed and slow down the breathing then the mind will empty out.

 

So then as the energy -- the jing energy builds up and then combines with the mind energy -- so then this creates more chi energy which then will empty out the mind even further.

 

Yeah as Chunyi Lin says -- it's all good, better and best.

 

Yeah the filling of the Tan Tien is also called "laying the foundation" -- but the big problem as Master Nan, Huai-chin points out is that as the lower tan tien fills up then the chi energy gets very strong and so then the third eye starts opening up - and so all of a sudden you can heal people of serious diseases and also you get telepathy and telekinesis -- but if you use any of those powers then you lose that energy and then you don't have enough energy to open up the third eye fully.

 

So until the third eye is fully opened up - which is achieving nirvikalpa samadhi or laying the foundation - then a person will "fall back into worldliness" due to "heroic overexuberance" as Master Nan, Huai-chin says.

 

So yeah basically it means falling out of Enlightenment. Still if you can find a master like Chunyi Lin who transmits the laser shen energy -- in the Level 3 class he sticks his index finger to your forehead to blast the center of your brain with laser energy to open up the third eye.

 

So if you have practiced enough where your channels are open enough then when Chunyi Lin works to open up the third eye then the results will be permanent.

 

Even though the third eye is not fully open it will still be stabilized at a certain level of Emptiness.

 

So I mean Chunyi Lin has two children but he did his intensive training in retreat for several months at a time and also he was only working two days a week and then meditating the rest of the time...

 

But yeah according to Sean Denty Mantak Chia does not have his third eye fully open because he does not see light during the Darkness retreats -- or not a lot of it, etc. Anyway so yeah all those practices that Mantak Chia teaches -- Gary Clyman rightfully dismisses them as bunk. The last thing you want to do is any technique that actually increases the production of ejaculation because that's the opposite of the goal to create chi energy!

 

I'm glad you have picked up on this point - you can create jing energy from food and reverse breathing but to create chi energy the mind must be celibate and empty. Only this way does the spirit descend from the mind to the lower tan tien and then the jing energy goes about the spirit energy -- or the water above the fire to be boiled into chi.

 

Yeah this is why the training is next to impossible in the mundane world because

 

1) Hardly any one understands this secret of immortal alchemy training.

 

2) If you try to do it people are going to think you're nuts because not only do they not understand - they don't want to understand! haha.

 

3) If you do practice it and are successful people are going to react to your energy and want to use up your energy and so you become like a magnet for all their energy blockages.

 

So at that point you just have to deepen your practice and it is very difficult to get beyond this. Mantak Chia calls it fusion of the five elements - but basically if you create a lot of chi but then it gets stuck in the heart that can create all sorts of extra energy distractions. Umm -- so yeah the chi energy then has to be stored back in the lower tan tien.

 

So the standing active exercise is actually supposed to be practice more than any sitting meditation exercise -- at least until the jing of the lower tan tien is built up.

 

But I mean Gary Clyman says he avoided females for two years.

 

So to do that you would have to stop using thetaobums since they're females here. haha.

 

Also -- well I live with four females - so I'm kinda not in a good way in terms of avoiding females. haha.

 

So building up the energy is very difficult.

 

For me I had chicks chasing after me - basically begging me for action - umm.... making weird sounds around me - it still happens but I just focus my mind by doing japa or internal mantra to concentrate my thoughts - increasing the chi energy in the brain which then pulls up the jing energy - thereby counteracting the attempt to deconvert my jing energy into fluids.

 

Yeah even talking about this stuff is wrong since it goes against the Emptiness - and so... at an advanced level the thoughts have to be controlled since there is a lot of chi energy behind the thoughts, etc.

Edited March 28, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[idiot_stimpy]

I read somewhere in the Western esoteric tradition, if you cross over and the personality takes the emptiness/void as an object it has obtained, you fall and become a black brother. Instead of realizing that the emptiness/void is actually the true you that has no boundaries or center.

Edited March 28, 2013 by idiot_stimpy

[Birch]

Gee Drew, the men outnumber the women on the TTB's by quite a large margin. What are you talking about?

[Kasuku]

Was it castration? haha.

LOL which begs the question! How do castratos get the generative force! theyre screwed!

Umm the Emptiness is always-already everywhere -- you can also call it "formless consciousness" or the Tao....

 

O.K. so the Mo Pai method and Gary Clyman's method -- the whole packing energy into the lower tan tien - yes that is crucial.

 

Essentially -- the heart center is activated by Emptying out the mind -- which then causes your spirit energy to descend.

 

So basically if you have your eyes closed and slow down the breathing then the mind will empty out.

 

So then as the energy -- the jing energy builds up and then combines with the mind energy -- so then this creates more chi energy which then will empty out the mind even further.

 

Interesting! I was just thinking, imagine u get the ball of yuan chi in the dantian at level 3. THEN FUSE UR SHEN LIGHT TO IT! okay that's got to be the ultimate combo haha.

Yeah as Chunyi Lin says -- it's all good, better and best.

 

Yeah the filling of the Tan Tien is also called "laying the foundation" -- but the big problem as Master Nan, Huai-chin points out is that as the lower tan tien fills up then the chi energy gets very strong and so then the third eye starts opening up - and so all of a sudden you can heal people of serious diseases and also you get telepathy and telekinesis -- but if you use any of those powers then you lose that energy and then you don't have enough energy to open up the third eye fully.

 

So until the third eye is fully opened up - which is achieving nirvikalpa samadhi or laying the foundation - then a person will "fall back into worldliness" due to "heroic overexuberance" as Master Nan, Huai-chin says.

 

So yeah basically it means falling out of Enlightenment. Still if you can find a master like Chunyi Lin who transmits the laser shen energy -- in the Level 3 class he sticks his index finger to your forehead to blast the center of your brain with laser energy to open up the third eye.

 

So if you have practiced enough where your channels are open enough then when Chunyi Lin works to open up the third eye then the results will be permanent.

I guess we should all see chunyi lin then! Are the phone healings really that amazing as u say?? I bet they are even more benefical to those who already have the freeflow of generative force. THen his laser shen energy can purify ur own energy instead of just opening blockages!

 

Even though the third eye is not fully open it will still be stabilized at a certain level of Emptiness.

 

So I mean Chunyi Lin has two children but he did his intensive training in retreat for several months at a time and also he was only working two days a week and then meditating the rest of the time...

You said chunyi lin cultivated his yang spirit! Does this mean he's also a spirit immortal! And why does he insist on people healing at the beginning since doesn't that empty out people's energy, or is that why he insists on people doing it from the heart?

But yeah according to Sean Denty Mantak Chia does not have his third eye fully open because he does not see light during the Darkness retreats -- or not a lot of it, etc. Anyway so yeah all those practices that Mantak Chia teaches -- Gary Clyman rightfully dismisses them as bunk. The last thing you want to do is any technique that actually increases the production of ejaculation because that's the opposite of the goal to create chi energy!

Well no one knows mantak's powers at all (if he has any at all) which made me suspicious of him from the very beginning. He seems to have too much theory, and no substance, and we don't know what he's plagarized or what he even practices himself! HE even has greater kan and li! lol.. are we supposed to believe hes immortal???

 

I'm glad you have picked up on this point - you can create jing energy from food and reverse breathing but to create chi energy the mind must be celibate and empty. Only this way does the spirit descend from the mind to the lower tan tien and then the jing energy goes about the spirit energy -- or the water above the fire to be boiled into chi.

 

Yeah this is why the training is next to impossible in the mundane world because

 

1) Hardly any one understands this secret of immortal alchemy training.

 

2) If you try to do it people are going to think you're nuts because not only do they not understand - they don't want to understand! haha.

 

3) If you do practice it and are successful people are going to react to your energy and want to use up your energy and so you become like a magnet for all their energy blockages.

 

So at that point you just have to deepen your practice and it is very difficult to get beyond this. Mantak Chia calls it fusion of the five elements - but basically if you create a lot of chi but then it gets stuck in the heart that can create all sorts of extra energy distractions. Umm -- so yeah the chi energy then has to be stored back in the lower tan tien.

Or u can get transmissions from chunyi lin or wang liping to boost ur progress. Have u seen the testimonials of lipings workshop. Apparently he even enables 80 year olds to achieve the true alchemical reactions!

So the standing active exercise is actually supposed to be practice more than any sitting meditation exercise -- at least until the jing of the lower tan tien is built up.

 

But I mean Gary Clyman says he avoided females for two years.

 

So to do that you would have to stop using thetaobums since they're females here. haha.

 

Also -- well I live with four females - so I'm kinda not in a good way in terms of avoiding females. haha.

 

So building up the energy is very difficult.

 

For me I had chicks chasing after me - basically begging me for action - umm.... making weird sounds around me - it still happens but I just focus my mind by doing japa or internal mantra to concentrate my thoughts - increasing the chi energy in the brain which then pulls up the jing energy - thereby counteracting the attempt to deconvert my jing energy into fluids.

NICE! Just imagine the chinese emperor with the concubines trying desperately to apply the dao sex techniques!

 

Yeah even talking about this stuff is wrong since it goes against the Emptiness - and so... at an advanced level the thoughts have to be controlled since there is a lot of chi energy behind the thoughts, etc.

Yeah im building now, ill work on the emptiness later! so is ur third eye open then, with all the flexing, or do you still have to rebuild ur jing energy?

[voidisyinyang]

LOL which begs the question! How do castratos get the generative force! theyre screwed!

 

Interesting! I was just thinking, imagine u get the ball of yuan chi in the dantian at level 3. THEN FUSE UR SHEN LIGHT TO IT! okay that's got to be the ultimate combo haha.

I guess we should all see chunyi lin then! Are the phone healings really that amazing as u say?? I bet they are even more benefical to those who already have the freeflow of generative force. THen his laser shen energy can purify ur own energy instead of just opening blockages!

 

You said chunyi lin cultivated his yang spirit! Does this mean he's also a spirit immortal! And why does he insist on people healing at the beginning since doesn't that empty out people's energy, or is that why he insists on people doing it from the heart?

Well no one knows mantak's powers at all (if he has any at all) which made me suspicious of him from the very beginning. He seems to have too much theory, and no substance, and we don't know what he's plagarized or what he even practices himself! HE even has greater kan and li! lol.. are we supposed to believe hes immortal???

 

Or u can get transmissions from chunyi lin or wang liping to boost ur progress. Have u seen the testimonials of lipings workshop. Apparently he even enables 80 year olds to achieve the true alchemical reactions!

NICE! Just imagine the chinese emperor with the concubines trying desperately to apply the dao sex techniques!

 

Yeah im building now, ill work on the emptiness later! so is ur third eye open then, with all the flexing, or do you still have to rebuild ur jing energy?

 

 

Umm... a friend of mine just started doing the Tuesday night "Healing Connection" that Chunyi Lin does qigong healing for - you pay per session - I think it's $15 a session -- and there's a package price also -- but anyway my friend said he had not practiced a few days and was feeling bad about it but within ten minutes of the Healing Connection the energy was super powerful.

 

So yeah people are very skeptical of the phone healings but the Healing Connection is phone healings and my friend has strong jing energy -- but he is way impressed.

 

I mean people have no idea what they are missing by ignoring Chunyi Lin and Jim Nance. They both shrink tumors over the phone - I mean shink a six inch tumor done by 85% lower so only 15% remains - in one phone healing session.

 

So yeah I have had to basically beg my mom to go to the Free Friday healings with Jim Nance but once I get her in the car and we drive the hour there -- afterwards she is blown away by it -- and that is just a free "sample" healing. haha. She still does not believe in the phone healings so if she wanted a paid healing I would have to drive her again.

 

Anyway my mom was taken off one of her prescription drugs and she may have to be taken off another one - I told her that is common to happen after the qigong healings but she did not acknowledge it.

 

Anyway so yeah people can be in denial - even though right after the healing they are blown away.

 

the best is for a person to practice right away after getting the energy healing - and so to build on the energy.

 

That is what I did originally and then finally I was practicing about six hours a day. But the thing is the energy got too strong too fast.

 

Yeah I stopped practicing for two months just to see if the magnetic bliss in the center of my brain would go away and it stayed at the same level.

 

My body energy channels closed up though.

 

But yeah people were freaking out about my energy -- and I pulled this lady's spirit out of her skull without touching her and so she was bawling nonstop for at least 15 minutes. Oops.

 

Yeah so I have to eat a lot of meat, etc. to build up my jing energy which I then burn into chi energy but then it gets used up by people around me. Jim said I need to build up my energy to such a level that people can not even sense that I have more energy for them to take. haha.

 

So he's talking about fully opening the third eye.

 

Basically yeah - you need regular charge ups and when Chunyi Lin does it the feeling is like a laser -- well it's literally a holographic laser -- deep in the heart. He just goes for the deep healing.

 

So people have told him his healing is more powerful now ever since he had his heart stop for over 2 hours and yet he was functioning fine. He describes it on one of the archived International Guild videos - you just register for free to access the http://sfqguild.com video archives - I think it's from August.

 

Anyway Chunyi Lin says the qigong practice in its simplest form is this:

 

"Use your consciousness to go into the Emptiness." That's it. So whenever you meditate you are working on the Emptiness already -- actually the Emptiness is working on you. haha.

 

As far as Chunyi Lin having people heal other people -- he says to make sure to call on the Master's energy to add to your own energy. So yeah basically he is initiating people in his classes -- so he charges them up and then by the 2nd level class they are charged up enough to heal other people. Then if they just keep practicing they can just keep healing other people.

 

So for me -- I just figured out stuff by accident on my own and so yeah I was taking in female jing energy but it depends on the female -- some females have low jing energy and so I have to rely on eating meat to build up my jing energy before I can heal them - give them orgasms. haha. Also it depends how many orgasms they need - how stressed out they are, etc. So if a female gets healed but then she lives with a bunch of perv males who suck off her energy then all that healing will need to be redone the next day. Or how stressful is her job, etc.? So then after about 40 mutual climaxes then the heart center really opens up as true love energy - and this can be with a female I am not even physically attracted to - so the heart love is electromagnetic and so feels like the two people are inside each other - again with no physical contact. So then the two people are not in the same building -- there is heart break from the separation. So yeah as tantra this is the secret technique for real love -- and when females climax they do give off testosterone as the jing energy and so their voice will get weak and my voice would get super deep but then the reason they climax is because I transmitted electromagnetic energy into them so they are super blissed out and feeling healthy and happy and charged up. In other words I am converting their jing energy into chi energy -- for them - just using my own body as a circuit and giving myself orgasms at the same time - literally mutual climaxes at the same time.

 

Like I said - I stopped doing that but it was definitely a fascinating experiment for five years.

Edited March 28, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[joeblast]

So are you saying all that big draw stuff that chia people do is useless, since the false fire cannot create chi energy?

 

Why cant you purify this jing by condensing it into the bones and vibrating it, instead of the emptiness?

So can we just leave the the jing thats circulating in the orbit in the heart area for longer to purify it or there must be emptiness to do it? Mopai guys don't seem to be big on emptiness and purifying generative force yet tehy still create the ball of YUAN CHI (TAIJI) at level 3 with purely energetic intentions.

ITs seems tremendously difficult for people in this modern age (esp youths) to engage in the emptiness. Ive have the Wang Liping manual where the foundation includes sealing the leaks (physical an mental) like the tao yoga book, which include the realm of ambition. So how does a person with other passions and ambitions engage in purifying the generative force. There must be another way instead of emptiness.

Basically, you are screwed by the wiring! Some nerves in the body are what's called "efferent" nerves and they generally serve to carry information-impulse away from the brain - a couple of the eye's nerves are wired like this - but anyway, there's an attachment coming off the sacral nerve plexus that attaches to the testes. Mechanisms there serve to accelerate and mature the sperm - so basically by having lustful thoughts you are commanding them to make more. Which is basically why Clyman saying one could watch porn to "build jing" is preposterous. What is this stuff made from? The body's resources. Putting aside lustful thought and really emptying one's thoughts out well is the only way to "not play that game" and not queue up more production! Yeah, sperm that is already partially accelerated can be reabsorbed (they dont reach full maturity until having mixed with other fluids and ejaculated,) but that is not nearly as efficient as having streamlined the production in the first place.

Why would you be looking for another way besides emptiness...it is a basic prerequisite for any of this work. Imperative.

[Kasuku]

JOEblast:

Emptiness as in let going of the 'ego', desire, ambition, seal the senses etc! - im talking about that level of emptiness!

Not the emptiness where you do you're the training not thinking of anything else!

IE the other sort of emptiness is not necessary unless u wanna be a monk!

ITs impossible to be a musician, be in school, joke around with friends, for the whole day then completely take away all thought of that during training! So you have to go in seclusion for at least a couple months to work on emptiness. My reasoning was if one ever needs emptiness (to purify the generative force and get the shen light) one can go to the mountains or jungle for a couple of months to half a year - then when hes done needing the true emptinyess he can return to society - i mean thats why all these masters did cave meditation, major death etc! Why would you want to put away sexual thoughts, i mean idk how old u are, but when i see a pretty girl my first thought is def not, "omg by jing energy is not pure!" ahha - i saw we build up the energy and work on purifying it through emptiness later, if thats eve necessary for ones

intentions - ie in mopai - you dont have to purify nothing! - all you do is build up the ball of harden yang energy, move around and fuse the yin to create the YUAN CHI - maybe the purifying comes later at level 30 with the immortal fetus

 

 

Drew that sounds amazing - maybe ill get a phone healing! ahaha - so chunyi lin's system is based on transmissions so people have enough charge to heal!

 

"So people have told him his healing is more powerful now ever since he had his heart stop for over 2 hours and yet he was functioning fine. "

 

Wow was this a minor death?

 

So you were giving chicks orgasms jsut through ur third eye!!! ahaha - imagine you jsut see a pretty lady, next thing u know she cant control herself! ahah

[joeblast]

heh, well, what do you think leads up to that level of emptiness?

 

why would you want to put away those thoughts? are you in the now or are you not? fantasy is not NOW. not now is not awake. now if you had met, courted, and became the apple of said beautiful woman's eye, nothing wrong with being intimate at all - but that is IN THE NOW. so seeing a beautiful woman and entertaining thoughtforms is the opposite of what mindful cultivation is.

 

you sound young, nothing wrong with "living" but live naturally and not extremely. but, if you want to take this path of cultivation, just realize that its not compatible with certain things. it takes quite a while to prepare oneself to the extent that one actually needs to live in seclusion - it becomes a way of life, not just a hobby.

[Kasuku]

so whats before the now - a thought - hahahah.. anyway ur just playing on words to fuel ur argument!

IF Gary Clyman has all that power without the emptiness then its not really necessary unless ur at a really high level and want to go back to infancy to purify ur chi into the middle realm, like wang liping did when he had his major death!

Frankly i rather have a hands on approach, and cultivate the vibration first, and not be bogged down by all this emptiness/sleepiness - "one actually need to live in seclusion" - Kostas did that, and where did that get him!? HE could have just done level 1 at home with a normal life and got furthur without torturing himself imo. OF course its a way of life! Once u have the free flow of generative force inside u ur constantly dealing with energy every second, so its like ur training all the time...