how do you attain perfect qigong/ wu chi posture and perfect belly breathing

[Blissfully-Ignorant]

ok guys i've limited knowledge on the hold subject of qigong practices as the only stuff i do is at kung fu practice, but i was hopeing you guys could tell me how to get into a good posture for qigong,my problem is getting the everything (head,back, hips, legs) alined corectly without leaning forward or backward to much. im mainly concerned with getting a good wu chi and horse stance.

[GrandTrinity]

Check out CHias book Inner Structure of Tai Chi, sit with hips higher than knees, and learn Chi Nei Tsang and Tao inner alchemy (orbit,healing sounds,self massage, inner smile...)

[Spectrum]

You can't 'make' it happen, you have to relax into your foundation, into your feet for starters. Start w/ how far apart your feet are, align from the feet up. The point is to drop the sacrum, elongate the spine, and let your long chain muscle groups support you instead of short ones. Master Fong has some good things to say about the Gung of standing practice.

 

http://www.i-chuan.net/pages/zz.pdf

 

As you relax and relax, the breath will get more... relaxed.

 

Also holding pushup position w/ a flat back (yoga:plank) w/ hands in fists, on finger tips, or flat, will do a good job of relaxing the breath and postural deflections common of our modern ergonomic wastelands.

 

Good researching to you,

 

Spectrum

[thelerner]

I don't know perfect, but I know good.

 

Nothing is better then hands on experience with a teacher, Yoga, Tai Chi, Aikido, Feldenkrais, Dance etc. There are nuances in 'perfect' stance where you need some one to press and pull you a bit.

 

That said, stand as if you were being pulled up by a string on the top (backish) of your head. Another string gently pulls your shoulders a little wider apart. Most Westerns have there pelvis region rolled back, they usually need to roll it and there hips slightly forward.

 

Stand with your back to a wall, with your heels touching it. How much space is there behind your back? If you can slip your arms through it, there is too much, adjust your posture (rolling your hips).

 

Books on Zhan Zang standing meditation have good hints. Try Lam's Book of Energy. He recommends using your imagination, resting your arms and extremities on 'energy balls' and relaxing onto them.

 

For belly breathing, try using a clock with a second hand in front of you. Sip the air through your nose as if you were a gourmet. Start 5 seconds in, 5 out should be easy. Once its established, Move to 10 seconds in, out. Wait til its easy, then 15 in, 15 seconds out, slow sips through the nose. In Ki-Aikido we'd do 1 minute breath cycles, very slow, but you work up to it. As the body relaxes it becomes easier. Ultimately you have to let go of the counting and slowness and go natural, but doing the slow breathing turns you on to what natural really is Minke DeVos in Silent Grounds (look for it in the link section) has some great indepth CD's on breathing exercises.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Michael

[mYTHmAKER]

the only stuff i do is at kung fu practice . im mainly concerned with getting a good wu chi and horse stance.

Does your teacher do a good horse stance. He should be able to guide you.

Don't try for depth - go only as far as you can without protruding your knees

or slanting your back. Your qua - hip joint will eventually open.

For qi gong standing you only need your knees bent slightly like you are sitting

on a high stool.

Check out the book thelerner recommended.

For belly breathing relax and place your attention on your belly.

Your breath will automatically go there.

[Blissfully-Ignorant]

thanks guys this info is really helpful, i been trying to attain good posture by looking at my torso side on in the mirror could some of you guys send some pics of yourselfs side on so i can check out your posture, also how would you describe the sensations associated with the belly breathing to the dantien. also i've started a topic about penis slapping enlargement and penis enlargement exercises and stuff and i'd really appreciate some posts there.

 

 

thanks guys

[bronzebow]

Warrior of Stillness by Jan Diepersloot is also pretty good. Lam Kam Chuen's other book "Way of Power" too. Both have a martial thing going on but I've found these perspectives to be valuable to health practices.

 

Putting your back to a wall initially if you don't have a teacher or someone to point out things is pretty good.

 

With the tuck the pelvis thing that is written in some places, I was given the advice to just relax the lower back and pelvis area and allow the lower back to naturally relax and flatten. This helps my belly breathing heaps. I got a copy of Ken Cohen's breathing somewhere and he mentions imagining your lower back area expanding slightly when you inhale(as well as the belly). Helped to relax my back a lot. Hope that helps some.

[mYTHmAKER]

thanks guys this info is really helpful, i been trying to attain good posture by looking at my torso side on in the mirror could some of you guys send some pics of yourselfs side on so i can check out your posture, also how would you describe the sensations associated with the belly breathing to the dantien. also i've started a topic about penis slapping enlargement and penis enlargement exercises and stuff and i'd really appreciate some posts there.

thanks guys

 

You can hold a broom stick against the back of your head and lower back to make sure you are not

hollowing your back. Move appropriately to fill in and adjust your posture.

When I breath in my belly I am relaxed.

 

Re: penis slapping I know there's a joke in there somewhere.

 

You didn't answer re your teacher correcting you.

The best way to get it is to have some one check you out in person.

Why don't you post your picture so we can check your posture.

[GrandTrinity]

I dont know about penis slapping but standing meditation is a lifelong thing...

[mYTHmAKER]

I dont know about penis slapping but standing meditation is a lifelong thing...

 

Isn't standing sometimes referred to as pole standing

[hagar]

thanks guys this info is really helpful, i been trying to attain good posture by looking at my torso side on in the mirror could some of you guys send some pics of yourselfs side on so i can check out your posture, also how would you describe the sensations associated with the belly breathing to the dantien. also i've started a topic about penis slapping enlargement and penis enlargement exercises and stuff and i'd really appreciate some posts there.

thanks guys

 

In relation to standing there are so many pointers and angles you can take. Many of the approaches to standing qigong seen from a martial perspective is not very helpful to get to the core principles of standing.

I can only second the thoughtful advice allready given, but if it is any helpful here's my 2 bucks boiled down from 14 years of standing:

 

Drop everything:

This means forget about alignment, posture, breathing, balance, etc.

Instead, start with finding a good spot. In the process, try to have a relaxed attention to where you are naturally drawn in the area you choose to stand. When you feel like stopping it is usually because you find the spot where you are connected to the earth, and the earth will support you.

 

Tune in/relax:

Find a way to be sensitive to what is going down, and what is coming up. When you relax, the heavy, muddy, dark aspects of your system goes naturally down, where it should be, and into the earth. Then, all the light, warm and bright stuff goes up. After that, standing becomes easy, and you attain good posture and alignment naturally. But it may take some time. Tuning in is like finding a program on a TV. When you tune back and forth on the tv button, you suddenly find the program. Most practice is just concerned about turning on the TV, not tuning in to the information coming through. When you feel the difference, everything else may become clearer.

 

You are now in the position to start standing practice.

 

As to the horse stance, try to stay low while attaining quiet breathing. If you start to strain your breathing, you reach your threshold much faster. After some time of working through your limit with a relaxed breath, you can stand in the position as long as you want.

 

For correct alignment, stand against a corner and put your entire spine on the corner of the wall. Try to do this while relaxing the holding in your torso.

 

Hope this was atleast a little helpful

 

H

[Spectrum]

"Warrior of Stillness by Jan Diepersloot "

 

I'll put in another vote for Diepersloots books. Don't forget this is two books so far: Valume 1 & 2

[wenwu]

i am by no means an expert but i'll through in my 2 cents

 

feet shoulder width part and legs slightly bent, this activates sinking of your qi

 

no mater what you are doing with your hands they should be as relaxed as possible, this will make arms feel heavy to you as you are using less muscle than usual to hold them up

 

you should push your head up gently (like you are trying to make yourself taller) in turn this will relax your shoulders

 

your spine should be a stright as possible, you will not be able to get it perfectly straight so dont panic, but make sure that the centre of your head (bai hui point) is above the point just behind your testicle (some other chinese name) and these points are in turn above a line between your feet, it is a common mistake that people start leaning back when they start studying

 

as for the breathing

 

first "hollow your chest and open your back", you do this by pushing your shoulders a little forward, this stops you from breathing with your chest and makes you breath with your stomach naturally.

 

lose all ego about having a pot belly and let it all hang out

 

duirng qigong you will have many duifferent sensations but if i tell you what i feel you might start looking for it and maybe imagine that someting si happening to you, better you let us know what you feel and we can tell you if we feel it too

 

 

lastly once you are in a posture that you feel comfortable with forget everything and just breath, you can come back and check your posture later to see if you have shifted and then correct it but don't get too stressed out and friend of mine almost passed out becasue he was too concerned with having the perfect posture during his practice

 

 

hope this helps

[soaring crane]

Hi,

 

regarding abdominal breathing, after a time try to just let the lungs and the entire "breathing aparatus" relax and pose no restrictions to the smooth even in and out flow of Qi. Concentrate on the belly, the navel, as though you are still connected to the umbilical cord, because, in a sense, you are.

 

One of the most effective techniques I've been taught is to wait for the breath to occur naturally. Be patient. Learn to "melt into" the little pauses between the cycles of breath and then gently extend the pauses. Let it occur in the Xia Dantian.

 

I wrote up a longish description of a reverse abdominal breathing meditation but I can't find it right now. Typical.

 

Regarding standing meditation, I've graduated from static to dynamic standing and the difference has been very remarkable (for me).

 

Peace

Edited February 14, 2007 by soaring crane

[Blissfully-Ignorant]

thanks guys the infos really helpful, ill try and get a pic of my posture to show you guys soon, as for the sensations i feel when i do the breathing, i try to think of breathing to the dantien and i get a feeling of tension in the abdomen and back area.

[soaring crane]

i get a feeling of tension in the abdomen and back area.

 

well... this is pretty subjective and probably not very useful but the back area is pretty important. You might be feeling sensations in Mingmen. But you describe it as "tension" which is not a very positive word and means you may just be too tense to do Qigong. Relax a little, don't take it too seriously. As soon as you learn to do that, and forget about sensations and perfection, your Qi will begin to flow, and that's what it's all about.

 

Mirrors and photos and walls really are more of a hindrance than a help (in my experience, ymmv). They all send Qi to your head. Try directing it to your feet.

 

If you're not relaxed, nothing will move. First learn to relax and then slowly add one aspect of the form at a time. Learn to focus on one element at a time. It can take quite a long time but it's a fun journey.

 

But, to your specific question, find Baihui on your head. It's toward the back and if your body is totally limp and I fasten a thread on baihui and pull on it... Your neck vertebrae are going to open and your chin is going to tuck naturally inward. Your upper spine is now perfectly aligned.

 

On the other end, find your hip joints, very important, and huiyin, even more important. You have to learn to pivot in your hip joints and let the sacrum truly sink without forming a "humpback". It'll take the curve out of your lumbar spine and aim the tip of the sacrum roughly to the toes. Now your spine is opened to it's maximal length without actually "stretching".

 

Head, chest and lower belly are like three big balls balanced atop one another. Keep them balanced. Concentrate on one and then another and then two and then all three...

 

I'm not a fan of a wide stance (but I come froma very soft perspective), I think it creates more tension in most of us and actually blocks the flow of Qi. But if it's your goal, try turning your big toes inward a tiny bit and your knees outward. It's the one version I ever enjoyed, lol. The horse stance provides you with stability "from outside" - physical stability. But it really should only be applied to martial arts, for the purpose of not getting knocked down, lol.

 

I tell people in my courses that we stand with the feet relatively narrow so that we have to rely more on inner stability. But basically, it's just softer and I feel allows for a far better Qi flow.

 

Ankles and knees relaxed, shoulders sink, elbows pushed slightly outward to open the armpits, hands relaxed and bowl-shaped, Tiger Maul (between thumb and forefinger) soft (very important), FACE relaxed, forehead smooth, a little smile on the lips... and about 50 more things we can think about when just "standing there", lol

 

Have fun and goodnight from central Europe

 

oh yeah... don't forget to breathe!

[mYTHmAKER]

i try to think of breathing to the dantien and i get a feeling of tension in the abdomen and back area.

Don't think. Gently put your attention, your awareness there.

[Spectrum]

You have to learn to pivot in your hip joints and let the sacrum truly sink without forming a "humpback".

 

Could you describe this pivot in more detail? Does it have a representitive shape or pattern? Thanks for your reflections on standing.

 

Spectrum

[soaring crane]

 

Could you describe this pivot in more detail? Does it have a representitive shape or pattern? Thanks for your reflections on standing.

 

Spectrum

 

Good morning

 

I can't really think of a way to describe it in text in more detail. The most common representative shape (great term, thank you) is the big water basin. But I never really understood it until my teacher said very simply, "lengthen the lower back", and then a lot of what he'd already tried to describe made sense. That kind of thing happens a lot. We just need to hear it phrased in a way that resonates with our condition at the moment and then... click, we got it.

 

The thing is, all you really have to do is find those hip joints, really loosen them, do some slow, intentful circling around them, do some figure eight movement around them, imagine them being "well oiled"... and then sink into the center of the circle or the eight.

 

The "leisten" (hip flexors?) should remain soft, the thigh bone and pelvic bone should feel kind of "separated" or independant of one another. This is very important and one of the major first steps in opening the Qi flow (as I've learned it and in my own experience, but there ae plenty of other techniques out there).

 

The tip of the sacrum, Weilu, can be used as a pointer. Point it to your toes, or rather to the area bewtween your toes.

 

Your weight will tend to sink into your heels when you do this, that's good. Some Taiji practioners will call it sloppy because you'll tend to lean ever so slightly forward as a way of balancing. But I sometimes concentrate on exactly that - the balancing.

 

In some other thread I mentioned that I discovered "dynamic" standing. This whole settling into the pelvis and heels happens on the exhale. On the inhale, the attention can shift upward and the body will raise up. The curve returns to the lumbar and the whole spine becomes a Qi pump. The knees straighten out slightly. Mingmen is very important here...

 

Realax, it's so important.

[Spectrum]

I can't really think of a way to describe it in text in more detail. The most common representative shape (great term, thank you) is the big water basin.

 

Ocean of Qi?

 

My first mentor explained this as a big water basin w/ a figure 8 following yin/yang taiji symmetry. A certain circular cycle. That w/ the wu ji crouch the hips loosen and the posture aligns, he demonstrated it everytime by going from a normal stance and taking whatever I threw at him and seemed to draw it into his center while redirecting the incoming energy through the technique back at me.

 

ut I never really understood it until my teacher said very simply, "lengthen the lower back", and then a lot of what he'd already tried to describe made sense. That kind of thing happens a lot. We just need to hear it phrased in a way that resonates with our condition at the moment and then... click, we got it.

 

I think Oral Transmission is often taken for granted, to be expected when the Father Son Mother Daughter Oral Traditions are replaced with the electronic campfire. Anyone who is training directly w/ a teacher is fortunate.

 

The thing is, all you really have to do is find those hip joints, really loosen them, do some slow, intentful circling around them, do some figure eight movement around them, imagine them being "well oiled"... and then sink into the center of the circle or the eight.

 

Beautifully described. This sinking into the center of the 8 seems like what happens on the down side of the cycle, while the entire circuit activates on the upcycle. By keeping the movement of the body isolated to the horizontal plane the figure 8's potential is realized by always circling back to center to continue the cycle. Vertical movement is left to the breathing motions effect on the internal levers. Wu Ji feels like floating in the center, spinning on an axis, the figure 8 is externalized if you drew a mandala for where you can reach each foot in it's respective rotational range of motions.

 

The "leisten" (hip flexors?) should remain soft, the thigh bone and pelvic bone should feel kind of "separated" or independant of one another. This is very important and one of the major first steps in opening the Qi flow (as I've learned it and in my own experience, but there ae plenty of other techniques out there).

 

I've likened this dropping free of the sacrum from the hips as a feeling of the bottom dropping out. It is most definatelly accompanied by both increased relaxation in the waste and pelvis allowing casual and smooth shifting while at the same time the center of gravity is significantly lower rooting the body into the ground deeper then when standing normally.

 

The tip of the sacrum, Weilu, can be used as a pointer. Point it to your toes, or rather to the area bewtween your toes.

 

Your weight will tend to sink into your heels when you do this, that's good. Some Taiji practioners will call it sloppy because you'll tend to lean ever so slightly forward as a way of balancing. But I sometimes concentrate on exactly that - the balancing.

 

Interesting note on leaning. Which stance are you talking about I assume Wu Ji / Horse stance?

 

In some other thread I mentioned that I discovered "dynamic" standing. This whole settling into the pelvis and heels happens on the exhale. On the inhale, the attention can shift upward and the body will raise up. The curve returns to the lumbar and the whole spine becomes a Qi pump The knees straighten out slightly. Mingmen is very important here...

 

Excellent observations. It's funny as soon as the posture starts coming up most often the sacrum tilts back out and the whole posture just won't look right, as soon as wu ji happens, the breath keeps everything in balance... as long as I r e l a x ...

Edited February 18, 2007 by Spectrum

[soaring crane]