Buddhists forum vs Vedanta forum

[stefos]

stefos,

 

From the textbook of Dr. Upinder Singh (daughter of prime minister and noted historian):

 

"The earliest formal exposition of Advaita or non-dualistic Vedanta was put forward by Gaudapada in the 7th or 8th century in his Mandukyakarika, a verse commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad. Gaudapada was influenced by Madhyamika and Vijnanavada Buddhism."

 

Also the Mandukya Upanishad itself was influenced by Mahayana:

 

Hajime Nakamura, Trevor Leggett. A History of Early Vedānta Philosophy, Part 2. Reprint by Motilal Banarsidass Publ., 2004 page 284-6

 

"As was pointed out in detail in the section titled Interpretation, many particular Buddhist terms or uniquely Buddhist modes of expression may be found in it."

 

"From the fact that many Buddhist terms are found in its explanation, it is clear that this view was established under the influence of the Mahayana Buddhist concept of Void."

 

"Although Buddhistic influence can be seen in the Maitri-Upanishad, the particular terms and modes of expression of Mahayana Buddhism do not yet appear, whereas the influence of the Mahayana concept of Void can clearly be recognized in the Mandukya-Upanisad."

 

"Although Mahayana Buddhism strongly influenced this Upanisad, neither the mode of exposition of the Madhyamika school nor the characteristic terminology of the Vijnanavada school appears."

 

If you want to see the verbatim verses Gaudapada took from Madhyamaka, you can click:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=sx12hxoFVqwC&pg=PA88&dq=The+Method+of+Early+Advaita+Ved%C4%81nta+It+is+not+a+matter+for+dispute+whether&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wr8ZUZ7iGceR0QGHuID4Cw&ved=0CDMQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20Method%20of%20Early%20Advaita%20Ved%C4%81nta%20It%20is%20not%20a%20matter%20for%20dispute%20whether&f=false

 

So why do you hate Madhyamaka and Mahayana as noted in the other thread?

 

Also, isn't Samkhya the definitive Hindu philosophy as it forms the underlying basis of the tantras?

 

My understanding is that tantrics like Abhinavagupta held the tantras higher than the Vedas and Upanishads.

Gaudapada might have been influenced....you've been influenced by Christianity!!!!

Sankara was not from what little I've studied.

 

Sankara blasted the Buddhist schools of his day to pieces.

 

The main problem of the Buddhist schools:

Momentariness.....How does one explain the accumulation of the Skandhas or Karma by this idea?

Sankara said........It's nonsense.........If you posit a "Store consciousness", you can also posit a "self."

 

This is why the non-dual approach is stressed in Mahamudra & Dzogchen. Sankara didn't mention these schools.

 

My perspective is that momentariness exists BUT it is upheld by the substratum of permanence!

Hard to understand....Harder to perceive: A holistic field in which momentary phenomena occur.

 

Regarding "Buddhist" schools in general:

The problem is NO ONE can nail down what the Buddha actually taught en toto. Period.

The "Buddhist" schools which exist today are new inventions...Ex. Pure Land Buddhism

 

I believe that the Buddha did teach certain things but the lines between what he taught & what happened after his death are blurred so much that it IS impossible to ascertain.

 

Transcendental matters are eternal....different "schools" be they Vedanta, Buddhist, Tantric, Esoteric might or might not carry forward primeval truths........to be discussed.

 

Finis

Edited June 19, 2013 by stefos

[RongzomFan]

Gaudapada might have been influenced....you've been influenced by Christianity!!!!

 

Where did you get that I have been influenced by Christianity?

 

Sankara blasted the Buddhist schools of his day to pieces.

 

You actually believe those myths? Do you also believe that Sankara was able to go into another's persons body and have sexual intercourse with that person's wife during a debate?

 

The main problem of the Buddhist schools:

 

Shankara did not understand Buddhism, or purposely misrepresented Buddhism as he did the other Indian philosophies. This is mentioned in many academic books on Shankara. This also indicates that Shankara never defeated Buddhists.

 

Ex. Pure Land Buddhism

 

Bardo, Pure Lands, Amitabha are all a part of Dzogchen, which you claim to follow.

 

I believe that the Buddha did teach certain things but the lines between what he taught & what happened after his death are blurred so much that it IS impossible to ascertain.

 

I only care about what the Indian Mahasiddhas taught.

Edited June 20, 2013 by alwayson

[Jeff]

My understanding is that tantrics like Abhinavagupta held the tantras higher than the Vedas and Upanishads.

 

I would agree with this interpretation of Abhinavagupta's perspective.

[RongzomFan]

Wow someone agreed. Time to dance.

 

[Jeff]

[stefos]

Wow someone agreed. Time to dance.

 

This video seems to showcase this guy....For girls.

 

Strange...........Americanized India......What a joke.

[RongzomFan]

???

[stefos]

???

???........Americanized India.....You heard it.

 

We have a crisis in the world due to nationalism, various forms of political identification and general self-adoring going on.

 

Secularization of a highly spiritual country stemming from "Western" which is to exclusively say "American" values sucks.

 

So much of the world see America as being promiscuous & loose in morals/ethics.

The last thing I want is to be labeled as that by anyone. My immediate upbringing is not an "American secular" way of thinking & behaving.

 

Pull the video man...Do Americans a favor

Stefos

[RongzomFan]

???

[stefos]

???

I've said enough.........If you can't figure it out by now....start thinking more about that weird video you posted.

 

The guy in the video seems like he's full of himself & he's been "Americanized" very well....look at his clothes for example.

 

I absolutely do not agree with the morals/ethics of the largely secularized U.S.A. being amalgamated into anywhere else in the world. The U.S.'s morals & ethics compass is done...burnt to a crispy.

 

The only people here with strong morals are practicing Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists & "Hindus" (boy I hate that word too).

 

Ciao,

Stefos

[silent thunder]

...

The only people here with strong morals are practicing Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists & "Hindus" (boy I hate that word too). ...

 

Morality does not stem from religion.

Religion is an attempt to explain morality.

[RongzomFan]

I've said enough.........If you can't figure it out by now....start thinking more about that weird video you posted.

 

The guy in the video seems like he's full of himself & he's been "Americanized" very well....look at his clothes for example.

 

I absolutely do not agree with the morals/ethics of the largely secularized U.S.A. being amalgamated into anywhere else in the world. The U.S.'s morals & ethics compass is done...burnt to a crispy.

 

The only people here with strong morals are practicing Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists & "Hindus" (boy I hate that word too).

 

Ciao,

Stefos

 

India has been westernized for hundreds of years.

 

India was a British colony, not to mention the other European countries.

Edited July 9, 2013 by alwayson

[stefos]

India has been westernized for hundreds of years.

 

India was a British colony, not to mention the other European countries.

 

Not in the way American morals & values have been pushed by particular people in the media in India & elsewhere in the world.

 

You wrong buddy. Wake up & smell the Sanka!

 

Watch that movie clip again....what is that guy trying to push/prove? Tight clothes, water all over him, the way he moves....

Wake Up man, it's secularization at its finest.

 

Stefos

[stefos]

Morality does not stem from religion.

Religion is an attempt to explain morality.

 

Wrong.

 

If absolutes exist, then they exist.

 

Many religions have no basis in reality, some are complete fabrications, some are 1/2 truths, some point to their perception of the truth as openly & honestly as possible, etc. Permutations & Combinations.

 

Morality stems from absolutes...Absolutes stem from the Ultimate reality, friend.

 

What's YOUR reality?

 

Stefos

[RongzomFan]

Watch that movie clip again....what is that guy trying to push/prove?

 

 

Its an artistic dance?

[RongzomFan]

alwayson are you saying only Indians can be true Buddhists?

 

Dudjom Rinpoche makes reference to Vishnu, Narayana, Rahu, Ketu, the Kauravas, the Pandavas etc. in the book A Torch Lighting the Way to Freedom.

 

As an Indian, I already know what this stuff is. So it helps a lot.

Edited July 16, 2013 by alwayson

[gatito]

If you have a Buddhist inclination and want to "mull it over" then take it to the Buddhist forum or maybe to the general forum... that would be the Right thing to do imo.

 

Time for a bump for this excellent post

 

Thanks 3bob

[RongzomFan]

Time for a bump for this excellent post

 

Thanks 3bob

 

Typical Vedantin Sectarianism