Confusion on Male Multiple Orgasm

[Leon Frost]

Hi all! First post, forgive me if I'm breaking some etiquette by bringing up this topic that I know has been discussed to death. I've searched every thread I could find on the subject, and my specific question is not answered.

I do the inner smile and healing sounds, I practice the microcosmic orbit, I do zhan zhuang for between 30 minutes and an hour, all of this daily. I feel that my foundation for sexual practices is firm, but if something's missing, please let me know.

That said, my specific question pertains to the physical locking aspect. I know that the finger lock is dangerous and I do not make use of that method. My confusion comes from the "contractile-phase" orgasm described in Chia's writings. He states that it takes place before the point of no return. However, I have today had my first "dry" experience, and I don't think that it was in line with this.

I was trying to ride the wave, just below the point of no return as Chia describes, but I messed up and went over the edge. Before I knew what was happening, as if on instinct, I clenched my PC muscle extremely hard and went into a "breath of fire" kind of thing of my own accord, without conscious direction. This state was sustained until the orgasm died down, at which point a tiny bit of semen leaked out.

What happened, and what am I doing wrong? Also, I don't believe it was a retrograde, as my next urination did not appear cloudy.

[voidisyinyang]

First of all if you want to make chi energy -- which you should want to make -- then you need to not focus on sex energy but instead focus on burning the energy into chi.

 

If you do that then the internal orgasms will happen on their own as a byproduct of the purification of the energy.

 

Also the sooner you can get into full lotus the better as my experience is that full lotus is the only way to ensure the internal orgasm goes into the cerebrospinal fluid up into the brain.

 

But again if that is your goal then it will just be dirty energy -- the mind has to be celibate in order to make chi energy.

 

Otherwise you can get some health benefits -- but also it takes me at least an hour of full lotus to have an internal orgasm.

 

So if you're sitting on a chair or in half lotus doing the microcosmic and then standing for half hour - that is not enough "burning" from the collagen piezoelectric pressure - which you get a lot of from full lotus posture.

 

Also if you doing and "diddling" (is this what you mean by "trying to ride the wave"?) as Chia promotes all that is going to do is make sperm come out as external ejaculation - and so Gary Clyman totally is against Chia promoting that and my experience is the same.

 

The goal is to burn the sex fluids into jing energy and then into chi energy through purification by cycling it down to the heart from emptying the mind out.

 

I know Chia doesn't teach full lotus but for me it's the only posture powerful enough to ensure sublimation of the fluids but even better is mind celibacy which Chia doesn't seem to teach either. haha.

[Leon Frost]

My microcosmic orbit practice has actually become more of a "passive" thing if that makes any sense; rather than spending "x" amount of time consciously running it, I simply find myself doing it every time I have the spare thought capacity to do so.

Also, while I've heard great things about the bliss of full lotus from Drew Hempel and others, I have a partner, and she rather enjoys conventional sex, as do I. I'd much prefer a method that facilitates the conservation of my energy without ruining the sex life of my relationship.

[voidisyinyang]

My microcosmic orbit practice has actually become more of a "passive" thing if that makes any sense; rather than spending "x" amount of time consciously running it, I simply find myself doing it every time I have the spare thought capacity to do so.

 

Also, while I've heard great things about the bliss of full lotus from Drew Hempel and others, I have a partner, and she rather enjoys conventional sex, as do I. I'd much prefer a method that facilitates the conservation of my energy without ruining the sex life of my relationship.

 

Well what gives females orgasms is chi electromagnetic energy activating their vagus nerve -- science proves that the vagus nerve connection to the cervix is the real female orgasm -- proven in 2004 only.

 

So the best way to love a female is to increase your chi energy.

 

If you can open up your pineal gland then you can have multiple mutual climaxes with females -- no physical contact necessary.

 

At any rate you might want to check out "tantra mongoose" -- but he also does climaxes without touching - but he talks about the chi energy of the sex organ being the key factor for the female.

 

Also the sex dr. Lin -- so you say you do P.C. flexing but you probably want to focus on anal breathing because when you flex your tailbone upwards this activates the vagus nerve more than just doing a PC muscle flexing.

 

So PC muscle is good at first but you really want the "anal breathing" technique to activate the vagus nerve. I know Chia talks about the anus flexing -- so I suppose that is the same thing.

 

But anyway after 40 mutual climaxes then the heart energy really opens up as mutual love that is electromagnetic. But again building up your chi energy is what really does the mutual climaxes.

[Leon Frost]

Thank you for the advice Trust me, I'm all for building chi energy. I'm not just hunting down the ability to have sex endlessly. I don't suppose you have any idea what happened in my earlier experience I mentioned, do you? I've never heard of people physically holding back ejaculation itself with the PC muscles, but based on my admittedly limited knowledge of anatomy, I feel like that's what happened there. I assume I'm way off on that assumption though, in which case I'd like to know what I was actually doing.

[Mal]

I've never heard of people physically holding back ejaculation itself with the PC muscles, but based on my admittedly limited knowledge of anatomy, I feel like that's what happened there.

I agree. That sounds like what happened and what you described, especially the breathing, is the way to do that (as you know from Experiencing it ) I actually thought I'd read that method in a Chia book. It's muscular control doing the same thing as the finger lock. Could have also been a retrograde ejaculation (ej into the bladder, urination then contains sperm, but you didn't experience that)

As you were not trying to do this (it just happened) should not be a big issue but probably not something you want to "practice"

Have a look at dr lin anal breathing if you can,I found it very useful (he is also focused on learning to give your partner awesome orgasms) But basically I'd keep trying to"ride the wave" as you say and allow the energy to flow up when you are resting on the crest of the wave and if you do go past the point of no return, just accept that and enjoy the "wipe out" with your partner without guilt

(You can always try again later & practice makes perfect )

Edited March 30, 2013 by Mal Stainkey

[voidisyinyang]

Thank you for the advice Trust me, I'm all for building chi energy. I'm not just hunting down the ability to have sex endlessly. I don't suppose you have any idea what happened in my earlier experience I mentioned, do you? I've never heard of people physically holding back ejaculation itself with the PC muscles, but based on my admittedly limited knowledge of anatomy, I feel like that's what happened there. I assume I'm way off on that assumption though, in which case I'd like to know what I was actually doing.

 

 

yeah -- you can totally stop an ejaculation "mid stream" so to speak -- I mean I usually stop them when they're halfway out the tube -- using my pc muscles -- and then I go into full lotus and this shoots it up the spine and I want until my skull is making cracking noises as the jing energy is clearing out the blockages - takes about 20 minutes of full lotus -- this ensures that I've gotten it past the prostate so I don't get foamy piss. haha.

 

But anyway after the jing energy is sublimated it has to be purified into chi energy and shen energy via the mind celibacy Emptiness.

 

So yeah for the multiple mutual climaxes you first transmit chi energy into the female and then as the chi energy builds up in her then when she climaxes you also have the internal vagus nerve climax at the same time but you are taking in her female jing energy through your perineum.

 

My experience is that the perineum is really the main intake valve so to speak that then brings the energy up -- sublimates it - -- and anyway I have done this not in full lotus for the first couple mutual climaxes but the third climax is the "real" one - equivalent to a full male ejaculation - and so I have relied on full lotus for that.

 

But yeah it might take you more longer celibacy to build up your jing energy enough so that you are creating chi energy. So for "real" tantra even though it's sex it's supposed to be done with mind Emptiness -- because again this is required to create the chi energy.

 

good luck - I've always just relied on non-physical energy exchanges as it's less messy, etc. haha.

[Leon Frost]

Mal - I've tried to dig up Lin's anal breathing method, but I can't help feeling like I'm missing something. Is it just using the anal/tailbone muscles to perform the same function as the big draw, while leaving the PC muscles relaxed?

Pythagorean - How does one learn to transmit energy into a woman? Are there any prerequisites she must do in order to become receptive to that energy? Also, are there any stretches or something you recommend to aid in assuming the full lotus posture? I can sit in half lotus, but as soon as I try to get the other leg up, it feels like I'm going to sprain something.

Thank you both for the continuing help

[voidisyinyang]

O.K. so basically the chi energy will automatically go where it is needed. As Chunyi Lin says S.M.I.L.E. or start my internal love engine.

 

Wow I mean when someone is yelling at you -- screaming - can you smile back at them? I know I can't. haha. So just that basic smile lesson is tough.

 

Anyway for example I was in a cafe last night reading - place almost empty -- I was waiting to pick up my niece. So the workers there were young females -- college age -- I just kept to myself you know. But then one of the workers was cleaning and she stopped in front of me - lingering - and I wasn't even looking at her. She was just in front of me while I was reading the book but my eyes were pulsating as the energy in me was being sucked up by her. So as she sucked up my energy and my eyes pulsating - the words of the book were also pulsating - and then I could feel the energy being pulled up from my reproductive organ.

 

So the chi energy leaving the body - or shen energy -- as it is sucked up by the female -- then it creates a vacuum which then pulls up the reproductive jing energy.

 

So I wasn't in full lotus or doing anything at all -- maybe some reverse breathing just by practice -- probably I do that most of the time now.

 

Anyway yeah so in the old days I would have been in full lotus and we would have had mutual climaxes -- but that was when I lived in the city and it's a more "liberated" culture in the city with the females chasing after me, etc. haha.

 

So I began sitting in full lotus in public as a defense against getting hit on by females which had the effect of deconverting my chi energy so that I had to do tons of extra meditation at night or else I would lose the alchemical pill during sleep. So I figured why not just sit in full lotus doing the day and save myself some time so that when females hit on me then I just sublimate the energy right there instead of them deconverting it into sex fluid.

 

O.K. so basically the normal person -- the lewd female will think she needs the male to ejaculate - but again what actually causes the female to climax is the chi energy. So the lewd female will be staring at my weiner and crossing her legs - staring into my eyes, etc. But the crossing the legs and pumping is a means of extracting energy from other people -- perv males do this also but their goal is ejaculation.

 

Since the female orgasm natural sublimates her energy then it creates a free energy cycle if the male also learns to have the female vagus nerve internal orgasm -- so then the female can suck up as much male chi energy as she wants. So basically normally the male chi energy is deconverted to jing energy and then into sex fluid ejaculation - but the normal person is completely unconscious of this psychophysiological dynamic and also the real fundamental reason for what causes the female orgasm.

 

Yea so the chi energy just bypasses all of that by directly activating the vagus nerve since it is electromagnetic energy and so the female naturally sucks it up since she has strong jing energy -- I guess since females are "yang chi" dominant internally - the blood iron is maybe what sucks up the chi energy. I don't know. haha.

 

Yeah -- so Dr. Lin - the sex Taoist doctor - he does not actually teach how to create chi energy because he doesn't really teach celibacy since he doesn't know how to rely on mind celibacy emptiness. So you find this problem with Mantak Chia and even Gary Clyman - basically in the strict alchemy training you need three months of mind celibacy as Emptiness training in order to really create chi energy. This is why the traditional training has the males go on retreat - like the original human culture from 100,000 BCE the males at puberty do a month long retreat away from the females - fasting and trance dancing the whole time. So in Taoism - like Chunyi Lin did a three month retreat at Shaolin and then a couple months of cave meditation at http://qigongmaster.com

 

You might want to get a phone healing from Chunyi Lin at 952-953-5555 The first time I got a transmission from Chunyi Lin -- I had an "alpha female" girlfriend - the kind who can seduce anyone and all males fight to sleep with - she was very well endowed and she would stand in front of a male she wanted to seduce and she would jump up and down -- creating the Baywatch Effect. haha. I later learned that the breasts literally suck up the chi energy -- so I gave females orgasms just be transmitting the chi to the breasts which the females would display to me - this is called "female display behavior" by the primatologists. Usually it is the backside display but sometimes it is the spread eagle display and the most intense is the eye staring -- since that is obviously the most conscious about it.

 

So yeah this is the secret to real love but it is not understood in the West and so the males don't know how to really love females and so we have a culture based on genocide, etc.

 

So for me I literally burn off my sex fluids into chi energy and the females suck it up - even if I am not trying - this involves the females using display behavior as I described -- or also using their voice making orgasmic sighing sounds which is to again deconvert my chi energy into jing energy and then into sex fluids. So for celibacy what I do is just repeat a mantra in my mind to empty out my mind - so this is like a ball in the brain that pulls up or sublimates the jing fluid. I use "Ohm bahme padme hung" - and this counteracts the female orgasmic sighing sounds. haha. Because again what the female wants - even though she does not understand this - is the chi energy - not the sex fluids.

Edited March 30, 2013 by pythagoreanfulllotus

[Mal]

Mal - I've tried to dig up Lin's anal breathing method, but I can't help feeling like I'm missing something. Is it just using the anal/tailbone muscles to perform the same function as the big draw, while leaving the PC muscles relaxed?

 

Unfortunately the best compilation was on Trunk's site, which is now off line http://thetaobums.com/topic/316-lins-links/?p=1964

 

I have not "read it" for a while , but basically "the big draw" (no forcing) is correct as we are attempting to describe something the body can do, hence there are many descriptions. When you are doing orbits you are doing this IMO. When aroused the energy naturally wants to go forward and out, you can guide it back and up (with whatever method works for you)

 

This is getting into extraordinary sex rather than convectional but have you ever tried to run your partners orbit? I don't use any yogic contortions yet I've found most are really sensitive to this and can feel it. Another easy one is giving from your groin to hers and receiving from her heart to yours. "Practicing the correct method" is IMO distracting, paying attention and feeling what you both feel and exploring together is more enjoyable.

[Mal]

Dr Lin's site http://www.actionlove.com/ is a nightmare to navigate, the CD is MUCH easier and really worth purchasing

 

ChiKong means Chi at work. ChiKong is a natural belly breathing technique that emulates baby breathing, with contracting the tail-bone muscle in each deep inhale. Old Taoists termed this technique as the Anal Breathing Method because the ChiKong practitioner can feel the anus inhaling Chi into the spinal cord or the Governing Vessel. To practice this technique, you have to focus your mind to your tail bone with semi-closed eyes, lightly contract the tail-bone muscle several times while slowly inhaling, and release the muscle while exhaling naturally. The tail-bone muscle acts a pump which drives the Chi into the spinal cord and the Governing Vessel over the anus from the first acupoint, CV-1, of the Conception Vessel. The major source of Chi is from the sexual energy center, the Ejaculation Control Valve or the Epicenter.

 

 

 

 

The Anal Breathing Method can be applied to driving the circulation of Chi along the Conception and Governing Vessels which forms a complete Chi cycle as described in the following figure. This is called the Microcosmic Cycling of Chi. You can practice the Microcosmic Cycling by the following steps:

1. Focus your mind in the Third Eye, between two eyebrows and calm the mind with natural breathing.
2. Descend the mind down to the CV-1 along the Conception Vessel while exhaling naturally.
3. Lightly contract the tail-bone muscle several times while performing a slow inhale, ascend the mind along the spinal cord and the Governing Vessel at the end of each inhale, and finally return the mind back to the Third Eye.
4. Repeat Steps 2 and 3 continuously.

 

That should all sound pretty familiar

 

Lin's Sexual ChiKong

 

 

The Male procedures are:

1. Calm the mind with naturally breathing for several minutes, partially close the eyes, put the tongue against the palate, focus the mind on the forehead between the eyebrows.
2. Inhale air through the nose stepwise, expand the abdomen, as termed pumping and holding, in an interval of 2 - 5 seconds, for 8 to 20 times up to the maximum capacity of the lung, and move the mind down to the navel.
3. Hold the breath, start to move the expanded abdomen downward by contracting the upper abdomen, as the pressure gradually builds up against the bladder and the prostate gland, and move the mind to the prostate gland area.
4. Contract the anus and exhale air through the mouth slowly, while moving the mind slowly from the prostate gland area, along the spinal cord, up to the forehead.
5. Repeat 2-4 several times.
NOTE:

1. In Step 4, a man should experience a hot energy flow rising up from the prostate gland area, along the spinal cord, to the head.
2. During intercourse, Step 3 is the most important one; he should hold the breath as long as he can and apply pressure to the bladder and prostate gland area with a maximum contraction of the upper abdomen and a maximum expansion of the lower abdomen. It will knock down the sensitivity of the penis. After getting used to this breathing technique or getting older, he will no longer have to hold the maximum expansion of the lower abdomen eventually. Applying a small pressure to the bladder will give him a good control of ejaculation. In fact, if he is a well-trained ChiKong person, he can simply use the Anal Breathing Method to control ejaculation
3. In intercourse, the step-by-step inhaling, with pulsing the bladder and/or the anus or rectum, should synchronize with the love thrusting.

 

 

 

 

The female procedures are:

1. Calm the mind with naturally breathing for several minutes, partially close the eyes, put the tongue against the palate, focus the mind on the navel area.
2. Exhale air slowly through the mouth with expanding the abdomen and empty the lung completely, and move the mind up to the forehead between two eyebrows.
3. Inhale air through the nose stepwise, also termed as pumping and holding, contract the upper abdomen and vagina/anus at the same time, in an interval of 2 - 5 seconds, for 5 to 15 times up to the maximum capacity of the lung, move the mind from the forehead along the spinal cord down to the vagina area.
4. Hold a maximum contraction of the vagina/anus for 10 - 100 seconds.
5. Repeat 2-4 several times.
NOTE:

1. In Step 3, the woman will feel an energy flow go downward along the spinal cord to the vagina area.
2. During intercourse, Step 4 is the most important one to bring the sensitivity of the vagina to the maximum that breaks the orgasmic barrier, so that she will start to experience a hot energy flow moving upward from her sex organs through her chest to her forehead.
3. In intercourse, the step-by-step inhaling, with periodically contracting the vagina, should synchronize with the love thrusting, until she is approaching to the orgasmic barrier where she should change to Step 4.

 

I would not recommend attempting to teach a partner "anal breathing" unless you want to end up with a night of solo practice (It's not a user friendly name but he also teaches a great method that's called "finger pliers" You can tell he is a Dr of engineering) I mainly included the sexual chikung part as you should recognize the orbits and a breathing technique you may have already discovered (just use it a bit earlier)

Edited March 30, 2013 by Mal Stainkey

[Mal]

Unfortunately the best compilation was on Trunk's site, which is now off line http://thetaobums.com/topic/316-lins-links/?p=1964

Sometimes I just forget to use the tools available ie. way back machine web archive

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20120415235718/http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/HLLinsLinks.htm

 

enjoy!

[Leon Frost]

Wow, I am absolutely floored by how helpful you all are! Thank you so much!

Mal - you mentioned running my partner's orbit. I haven't experimented with that for purposes like sex, nor do I comprehend how to do so. However, I have experimented with using hand movements - either an open palm or Chunyi Lin's sword hand form - to move energy from place to place in people. I've been able to help several of my dear friends to resolve blockages by doing that, and I assume it's a similar method to what you're describing, for a different purpose.

The most interesting example I can think of - I have a friend who (we think) went through perhaps an accidental Kundalini awakening at a very young age (perhaps earlier than she can even remember) and dealt with those symptoms her whole life until just a few years ago when she finally started spontaneously doing grounding meditation without knowing what it was she was doing. She's 19 now. Anyway, she had some kind of blockage in the area of her bladder, resulting in constant over-active bladder issues that doctors had no explanation for.

Just for kicks, I decided to see if it was in fact a blockage, and if I could clear it. So I put a hand over her lower abdominal area, in the general area of her pain, and imagined that her bladder and my palm were "breathing" in sync with each other, at a rhythm dictated by my own breathing rhythm. My hand grew very warm instantly, and she immediately began making all these pleasure noises, and apparently during the several minutes of me attempting to clear the blockage, which was in fact cleared, she was experiencing waves of pleasure shooting up and down her spine.

I have no idea what that was; as I said, I'm entirely self-taught due to necessity. Pythagorean, perhaps you have some insight on this event? Anyway, Mal, that's the extent of my knowledge of exchanging(?) energy with others. Is that relevant to what you're suggesting?

[voidisyinyang]

Wow, I am absolutely floored by how helpful you all are! Thank you so much!

 

Mal - you mentioned running my partner's orbit. I haven't experimented with that for purposes like sex, nor do I comprehend how to do so. However, I have experimented with using hand movements - either an open palm or Chunyi Lin's sword hand form - to move energy from place to place in people. I've been able to help several of my dear friends to resolve blockages by doing that, and I assume it's a similar method to what you're describing, for a different purpose.

 

The most interesting example I can think of - I have a friend who (we think) went through perhaps an accidental Kundalini awakening at a very young age (perhaps earlier than she can even remember) and dealt with those symptoms her whole life until just a few years ago when she finally started spontaneously doing grounding meditation without knowing what it was she was doing. She's 19 now. Anyway, she had some kind of blockage in the area of her bladder, resulting in constant over-active bladder issues that doctors had no explanation for.

 

Just for kicks, I decided to see if it was in fact a blockage, and if I could clear it. So I put a hand over her lower abdominal area, in the general area of her pain, and imagined that her bladder and my palm were "breathing" in sync with each other, at a rhythm dictated by my own breathing rhythm. My hand grew very warm instantly, and she immediately began making all these pleasure noises, and apparently during the several minutes of me attempting to clear the blockage, which was in fact cleared, she was experiencing waves of pleasure shooting up and down her spine.

 

I have no idea what that was; as I said, I'm entirely self-taught due to necessity. Pythagorean, perhaps you have some insight on this event? Anyway, Mal, that's the extent of my knowledge of exchanging(?) energy with others. Is that relevant to what you're suggesting?

 

The palm is used to transmit energy into people --

[Leon Frost]

So I transmitted energy into her? Why did that feel so good to her when similar effects have not taken place with my girlfriend or anyone else I've done something like this with?

[voidisyinyang]

So I transmitted energy into her? Why did that feel so good to her when similar effects have not taken place with my girlfriend or anyone else I've done something like this with?

 

Well the chi energy is created not from lust but from compassion and love -- so maybe your energy vibration was higher and maybe she had stronger jing energy so she was able to sublimate her energy more easily to your chi energy.

 

One time I pulled this old lady's spirit out of the top of her skull -- ur not supposed to pull blockages out of the top center of the skull and my qi energy was very strong compared to her energy. I didn't realize it -- she cudn't see what I was doing as I was standing to her side and she sitting in a chair. I felt this heavy electromagnetic blob get pulled out of the top of her skull even though I never touched her. She immediately started bawling as soon as I felt the electromagnetic blob get pulled out of her. She bawled non-stop for at least 15 minutes.

 

Yep sometimes the energy healings are a real shocker. haha.