Has the West been brainwashed by the Vatican/Church to not meditate?

[Guest rebelboddha]

Has the West been brainwashed by the Vatican/Church to not meditate?

[de_paradise]

Edited March 31, 2013 by de_paradise

[MERCELESS ONE]

yes it has! from my experience with the church anything that is not the church is bad! when i first started learning this information i was told not to. the sad thing is i became closer to god/tao/creation or what ever ppl want to call it, outside the church so i never went back. meditation clears up the mind and allows you to see truth. by doing so you will question the church, and the church does not want to be questioned. many have been called the antichrist and killed due to questioning the church and calling the church out on its bull!

[OldPath]

5

Edited November 4, 2023 by Thijs Buelens

[Samurai Mountain man]

No. hahahah i don't think so.

[MERCELESS ONE]

Meditation is not foreign to christianity, check Thomas Merton for example.

u are rite! it is mentioned a few times in the bible! the problem is it is not taught to the mass! im pretty sure those high up in the vatican knows! hell the cardinals have knowledge of ancient symbols and wear them for crying out loud so i know they are hiding somthing. keep the ppl ignorant and they have no choice but to rely on you...

[Kasuku]

okay priests are celibate but they look like they have no jing ahahah!

[Cheshire Cat]

Priests aren't trained in meditation: they just learn some prayers that should be used for meditations.

But those prayers are supposed to produce spiritual effects on their own, like some sort of incantation and people rarely use them for the purpose of self-realization.

 

The categories of people who approach God/Enlightenment are:

1-sick people

2-those who are looking for material gain (they pray to have benefits like money, etc...)

3-sages

4-those who are curious

 

Our society teaches that 1 should look for good doctors, 2 should work harder, 3 are suppressed (sagehood is a shame in our society) and 4 can enjoy technology (iphone...) and a variety of interesting stuff.

 

The result is that generally only sick people and those who have emotional/psychological problems end up praying, meditating, etc...

This is the tendency of our western society and the responsibility of the church is partial, in my opinion.

[Gerard]

.

Edited September 13, 2013 by Gerard

[Cheshire Cat]

Hi Gerard

 

You're right and I agree that today we have some freedom to cultivate sagehood in secrecy.

My point was that in the past, a wise man was respected. Hence, the society followed a bit of good sense.

The bad side was that "highly regarded" means "power" and this stuff attracts all sort of egoistic persons... or it can even transforms sages into fools (there are many stories of yogis who get powers and left the Path).

When this happens, sages are suppressed indiscriminately.

 

In the case of druidism, we know that romans conquered the galicians and druids were not directly persecuted because the Roman Empire had the tendency to assimilate foreign Gods. Hence, if they disappeared it is because either they changed denomination or their political role was usurped by romans. But in this case, they were not mere sages: they were administrators with a direct interest in society. A good administrator isn't a pure sage. A pure sage is prone to lose bonds with society... yet, he helps people as much as he can.

 

As for the witches, I believe that real shamans and mystic have enough power to escape such suppression by changing denomination or by hiding themselves. This is a protection from higher spirits.

Many good magicians were killed and lots of knowledge were lost, but this was something like the Shoah: it was meant to eradicate a form of "social power". It wasn't exactly for changing sagehood into foolishness because the Church had a different denomination of sagehood . In their opinion, a sage should be subordinated to the church and many wise men did so in order to survive.

Definitely, not a good a thing... but there was a tiny bit of "theory" behind.

 

Today, a wise person is a nutcase, no matter what. It is not respected and have no social power.

This is a good condition for sages, but a disastrous situation for the society in general because when people think that wu-wei is madness, they are ruled by personal gain... and real craziness comes forth

 

This is just my opinion.

[exorcist_1699]

First you need to be allowed to meditate; then you should be able to discover qi in your meditation , and use it as a criterion to verify your spiritual ability , its correctness and progress, otherwise all is doomed to futile ; you are still in that trap of mysticism.

Unfortunately in the West , people are too attached to a personalized God , and are only allowed to pray , not to meditate. Pray to a father-like God for his forgiveness, for his kindness ,for his mightiness.... rather than "drilling" the immense , boundless clear state of mindlessness , popped up from meditation , for qi , an omnipotent dose of medicine for their sufferings that they can feel and test on their own bodies.

The Western people can't discover qi, which is just same as the Chinese inability of finding the gravitational field or the magnetic field ( they did invent the compass , sadly) ; maybe it is only after the rise of internet and globalization will human intelligence on this globe become perfect , not one-sided ?

[eye_of_the_storm]

What is so spiritual about the east?

They are as devotional as western religious systems... offerings of food / incense... prostrations...they also pray to Buddhas etc and other entities. No difference really... some still practice witchcraft + ritual animal sacrifices.

Maybe a handful in the east practice "true cultivation" - though who is to say devotional love is not a worthy practice or what true cultivation is... I think rather than devotional love to plastic statues... we should practice devotional love to our family and friends.

I have seen monks + taoist practicing "longevity" look as deathly in old age as anybody.

The majority of longest lived countries are western.

1 Japan 82.73 79.29 86.96
2 Switzerland 81.81 79.31 84.12
3 Hong Kong 81.61 79.04 84.30
4 Australia 81.44 79.12 83.75
5 Italy 81.37 78.58 83.98
6 Iceland 81.28 79.49 83.05
7 France (metropol.) 80.95 77.48 84.32
8 Sweden 80.88 78.78 82.93
9 Israel 80.69 78.36 82.87
10 Singapore 80.60 78.48 82.71
11 Canada 80.54 78.18 82.81
12 Spain 80.48 77.22 83.75
13 Norway 80.45 78.12 82.71
14 Austria 80.24 77.41 82.88
15 Netherlands 80.20 78.05 82.19

Western countries having no special energetic cultivation techniques.

I think east or west... only a few really attain anything of significance.

I think the "spiritual" east is a fable.

+ a way to mislead western folk from their own spiritual traditions or digging up the past.

Most in the west drop Christianity and are sold Buddhism.

They have never really looked deeply into Christianity or its mystical paths... nor have the looked into the vast philosophical archives of the west, both ancient and present... nor have they endeavoured to seek even more ancient shamanic practices of Europe (Europe is covered in megolithic structures / sacred sites / man made meditation caves with astrolgcal alignments etc etc)... a lot has been done to hide these things.

Buddhism really is for lazy people.

Meditation is a waste of time without developing reasoning ability + worldly knowledge //

Buddha never really helped anyone... he was trying to escape suffering... not trying to stop suffering.

In the west I think largely we have stopped suffering... perhaps we have become too comfortable now... but this will balance out I think in the end.

Conquering death is another issue.

If the west continues it's technological development... in harmony with nature (we are seeing a good move in this direction... how long this will take is unknown...if money is put in the correct places... by 2100 we could all be living in paradise... rebirth wouldnt be so bad afterall? though to develop + keep memory would be key, for me anyway.

Edited April 3, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Basher]

Even in China real Daoists go to the mountains in seclusion seeking "immortality". The average Chinese folk wouldn't have a clue of that this is all about. Also Communists almost wiped out Taoism from China.

 

Today things aren't much different. I don't talk to people I meet in real life about my practice because they think I am a nutcase.

 

Hi Gerard,

I believe that during the Communist takeover, not only were hundreds of thousands of people killed for anti-communist beliefs. But also many millions of Ancient texts and Books etc on Taoism (amongst other things) were destroyed...

A crime against humanity in both cases....

 

Believe that Hitler was also responsible for burning any Books considered to be anti the Nazi ideaology !!!

 

Also, have you considered that you might be 100% self-aware & enlightened.....and a Nutcase

[eye_of_the_storm]

Hi Gerard,

I believe that during the Communist takeover, not only were hundreds of thousands of people killed for anti-communist beliefs. But also many millions of Ancient texts and Books etc on Taoism (amongst other things) were destroyed...

A crime against humanity in both cases....

 

Believe that Hitler was also responsible for burning any Books considered to be anti the Nazi ideaology !!!

 

Also, have you considered that you might be 100% self-aware & enlightened.....and a Nutcase

 

Communism killed 60 million some est 100 million Chinese

 

Communism killed 100 million some est to 150 million Russians

 

Then you also have:

 

North Korea

Vietnam

Cambodia

 

etc

 

+ South American Communist regimes ... millions killed

 

WW1 + WW2 both instigated by communists .... WW1 never really ended.

 

Funded by the same International banks killing the planet today.

 

You will find supposed Capitalist "democractic" nations poured millions $ into communist regimes... Communism + Capitalism arn't so removed.

 

Communism was a tool to destroy nations and steal all its wealth.

 

Germany was put into a far worse position than what Greece etc are in today... Germany was being bled dry, its people dying... and it witnessed the genocides at the hands of communists.

 

It was do or die for Germany... as it is do or die for many countries today.

 

Anti "Nazi" material was burned yes.... such as communist works + all manner of depraved material including pornography ... it was a cleansing of the spirit.

 

Hollywood is full of communists hence you will never see a movie condemning communism... despite it truly being the most wicked ideology / instrument ever concieved.

 

 

 

 

[OldPath]

7

Edited November 4, 2023 by Thijs Buelens

[eye_of_the_storm]

I think the morality of the church is in some respects... valuable.

You don't really understand these things until you gain a better understanding of the world + people.

For example "sexual freedom" .... I saw an article the other day saying that more americans will have STD then have jobs... haha :/

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/03/43825-americans-with-venereal-diseases-could-surpass-those-with-jobs-by-the-end-of-obamas-second-term/

Scary stuff

Buddhism also has strict morality.... that people love to ignore / thinking Buddhism is anything goes... so they like it. Haha hence the lazy... a little cheeky / not talking about All.... just most.

Tell me you havnt met such people?

Plenty of Buddhist here that practice "compassion" while chewing on a piece of steak.

Edited April 3, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[OldPath]

7

Edited November 4, 2023 by Thijs Buelens

[eye_of_the_storm]

True... just a play on psychology... because really that is what they want you to become... I think this is the error of western students and why they take it so lightly / not at all... in a way they mock the teachings...as unnecessary

Really a true Buddhist/Taoist will attain or strive for the same level of Virtue that Christianity etc imposes.

Via its method of communication.

One will see striving for virtue is the true freedom... some people must suffer a lot to see this. (I am still learning too... haha, I am not saying I am all virtuous)

When we are young naturally we don't understand and lash out at everything... I have even read accounts of people growing up in Buddhist communities... and rebelling against...later turning to Christianity ...it is a funny thing... adolescence

I don't think any religion east to west truly accepts gays or lesbians.

I guess some have been watered down// or again ignored.

The Japanese have the right to defend themselves... Zen + War ... if Zen is the closest thing to nature...? Nature can be warlike.

I havn't looked too deeply into the Japanese side of things regarding that...

There is always 2 sides to the story... I have read of the games played by the US government and others to draw USA into WW2... very devious stuff

Who is innocent?

And the way the allies manufuctured Pearl Harbour..+ the knew of the attack and did nothing to prevent it... it was intended to be used as a way to bring USA into the war... + gain public support.

Similar to 9/11 and other false flag events.

Now we see the deeds of USA (gov) and friends today... we know what they are capable of.

I once asked... why has the nuclear attacks against Japan never been considered a war crime?

One response was... who cares... they deserved it

I have spent time in Japan... they are very nice people...

History is a strange thing.

Edited April 3, 2013 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Basher]

Does it really matter WHO killed Millions of people ? Communists/Fascists/Christians....they've ALL killed/murdered those who have differents beliefs, differents gods, different coloured skin or those who just look a bit different.

 

The Facts are Millions have died, (usually) at the hands of those in POWER or those trying to forceably gain Power.

Millions have died trying to obtain freedom from Slavery, or just FREEDOM to believe in what they choose.

 

One Man's Terrorist, is another Man's Freedom Fighter !

 

Most Religions have a stated belief along the lines of "Thou shalt not Kill".

Yet (apart from the communists), virtually all of the people doing the killing in both of the World Wars, believed God was on their side !

 

Mankind is extremely wasteful of the Earth's Resources, spending enormous amounts of money / effort trying to be bigger & better than the next guy / town / city / country. If only we could harness all of that Energy in to trying to help others, rather than beat them, the World would be a much nicer place for ALL.

 

(Just my 5p's worth !)

[Basher]

History Books are usually written by the "Winners"

[eye_of_the_storm]

Regarding... fighting for God

Most really were lead to believe that they were fighting for good...for freedom / for humanity.

Most of the people dying in the war didnt really understand what / who they were fighitng for.

Military people today (last 100 odd years) are sadly... mercenaries fighting for corporate / globalist gains / agendas

very,very few would sign up if they really knew what was going on behind the scenes... hence massive PR campaigns + hiding / distorting of history + blatant lies/deception etc.

[Mikeb85]

Has the West been brainwashed by the Vatican/Church to not meditate?

 

If they've been brainwashed by anyone it's the protestants, who have no connection to historic Christianity.

 

The earliest Christians (today represented by the Orthodox Church) practiced meditation (hesychasm), and many Roman Catholic monastic orders practice meditation today.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Mikeb85

[BrEric]

I have found this thread very interesting.

Their are meditative strands within Christianity, but I would have to agree with the overall feeling expressed here that many Christians have not been taught meditation nor believe it has anything to do with Christianity.

[Jetsun]

It's not very good for the economy to have large parts of your population spending a lot of time sitting around doing nothing, monks are especially bad as they rely on donations. It's only good if you can get foreigners to come and pay lots of money to do it, which is how most monasteries in the East work now.

[Wu Ming Jen]

God has the power not you, the power is not you. only a holy man can put you in touch, you do not have cell service, no signal, It would be difficult for a two world, dualistic belief system, religion to teach true meditation. What would the meditation be? you're not worthy and can not understand so leave it to god, How do hindus have yogis and meditation when they started this two worlds thing ( but with a nature connection still intact)? Buddha seemed to find out it that the Hindu system does not work. Enlightened human WOW that may work to save humanity from itself.. It might say thou shall not kill in the bible but that maybe where the killing begins. It is hard to take advantage of people and control masses for self interest but its working out for a small percentage of people. can you imagine peoples reaction to our current un natural systems for humans to live UNDER. Oh thats right lao tzu wrote some things down.