MT

[zerostao]

scavenging is a useful art, i reckon.

but when crows practice this art they come away with something useful,

they dont have knee jerk reactions, or act rattled. feel a need to defend themself,

or look at everything as a fight.

but not many of us are clever enuff to be a crow. i think about that from time to time. ah ah

"Why wouldn't that make you sit up and listen?"

not only am i listening, i have engaged you in conversation.

" Do you think you know everything yourself?"

above my dragon, it says unknowing cloud.

[chenping]

Why are you speaking in metaphors? Is this an English form of Classical Chinese?

[zerostao]

"Why are you speaking in metaphors?"

thanks for asking, chenping. the title of this thread is Mind, Void, Tao

early on you posted; the boldings mine

 

The Tai Chi master was talking about water, the nature of which is expounded in Chapter Eight: 上善若水.

 

I have never understood the connection between the Tao Te Ching and Tai Chi which is martial art, the cultivation of violence to deal with violence. How is it possible for the way of wisdom to inspire the way of fools?

 

Tai Chi, in physical combat, involves striking other people's bodies - with your head, fists, edge of your hands, tip of your fingers, elbows, knees, and feet - like water. You would use every part of your body - except your brain - to deal with violence.

in fact the TTC references the principles of taijiquan often.violence does not have to be cultivated to deal with violence.

you can use your mind and/or your brain. in fact you mentioned a gun somewhere and the gun does not approach the levels where the brain and/or the mind can go. the mind and/or brain are far more dangerous than a gun and they also may possess a trigger that can be cocked and ready to pull.

i liked SMM's post that you didnt respond to, did you read it? absorb it?

and vortex made a very nice post that you did respond to;

vortex stated;

"

Well, a lot of Taijiquan involves de-escalating violence by defusing, neutralizing or countering it with less violent maneuvers."

and you replied

"In theory or intent, yes; but that works only in the practice hall where no one is suppose to intentionally hurt anybody. This is like gun-fighting using blanks for show."

i strongly agree with vortex here and strongly dis-agree with you here. in fact at the higher levels this isnt seen in the practice hall and is only/very useful in a real situation. but it takes a certain skill level.

then gerard expressed how

"Tai Chi Chuan goes beyond fights and punches"

and gerard brought up meditation and the latent power of meditaion.

and you dismissed that right off.

so that is kinda why i laughed at the absurdity. a martial artist who incorporates and understands the great power of meditation(and subtle energies) and how it can be used dangerously even. being challenged by someone who is not aware of such things.

its alot like taking a spoon to a gun fight.

 

trickster

crow, in the new snow

you caw caw

like crazy

laugh

beacuse you know i am a fool

too, like you

skimming over the thin ice

to the war going on

all over the world.

-- joy harjo --

[Stosh]

So now the chinese ( and chenping specifically by extension ) invented and own metaphor !

[i am]

And there's talk of defiling now? Are us westerners suddenly infidels to the Chinese also, or just to you?

[chenping]

Please do not confuse infidels with bunglers. An infidel is one who has no religious beliefs. A bungler is full of it. And when you are full of it, you corrupt the purity of anything you touch.

 

And what kind of westerners do you gang up with and consider as "us" people?

[Stosh]

Us people should be careful , we might get sued for copyright infringement if we use a roundhouse

[i am]

Gang up? It's interesting that you come to the tao bums to argue. Your first post in this thread was argumentative, you continue to be confrontational and argumentative, and seem to be acting the victim at the same time. But are clearly, in your own mind, much superior to the rest of us.

 

You have a Chinese username, and claim chi dragon is the only one who can take apart characters without defiling them?? I guess I read too much into it, but it seems you're saying "us" westerners somehow defile Chinese culture.

 

Either way, you are not an uplifting person to interact with, and clearly I'm still learning which threads to keep myself OUT of.

 

Bye!

[Harmonious Emptiness]

According to the Mirriam Webster dictionary:

 

"Bigot: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance"

 

Thus, once recognizing bigotry, there is rarely much point to argue with it with any hope of successfully reasoning it out of the mind it occupies. Bigotry could care less what logic you bring to it, and will always find a reason to ignore revelations as to why its prejudiced opinion does not make sense. If there is any point to this argument it is to keep the facts straight so that passive observers are not mislead by incorrect convictions.

 

So, don't get too personally invested in eliminating the bigoted opinions, but I do appreciate everyone's efforts here to maintain the presence of reality in what appears in these threads.

 

And it's always fun to try and solve puzzles so..

 

Please continue...

[Samurai Mountain man]

A bungler is full of it. And when you are full of it, you corrupt the purity of anything you touch.

 

Interesting words Chenping, and I think there's much observe here with what you've put forward. Is purity always a good thing? is purity even practical? When water becomes infused with tea, it becomes "corrupted", it's no longer pure water but something more. The closer we look at particular isolated elements we can see that they are "pure" but the further away we get from detail and look at the whole picture, we realize it's an interaction between two or more elements. Same goes for us as human beings, what we see as ourselves -or what others see us as- is an amalgam of experiences, internal and external forces shape the body and mind.

 

To me, purity is the most transitory state of being, one can be conceptually pure but I think that's as far as it goes.

 

Us people should be careful , we might get sued for copyright infringement if we use a roundhouse

 

Lol, You've earned one free internet.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices;

 

Quiet tonight, eh? Not much to talk about when nobody's obstinately and intolerantly devoted to their opinions___.

[chenping]

Interesting words Chenping, and I think there's much observe here with what you've put forward.

 

It really depends on the observer. You see one thing, she sees something else and I see yet another thing. But that's fine as long as one doesn't pin what one sees on another or ram it down others throat as the goddam truth. I express what I see. You are welcome to question my observations. But if you get upset if I question yours, then something is wrong, as Cat said.

 

Is purity always a good thing?

 

What do you mean by purity? Air is filtered and needs to be pure and free of dust in server rooms. Contaminants seep into data processing facilities and corrode electronic equipment leading to malfunction and breakdown of computers.

 

is purity even practical?

 

In the example I cited above, purity is essential considering that the whole planet is electronically wired up. Imagine the chaos if national power grids shut down and global communications crashes due to contaminants. Don't say that Taoists wouldn't care. They would be the first to scream "sonovabitch!" when the power goes out and their laptops can't get on the net.

 

When water becomes infused with tea, it becomes "corrupted", it's no longer pure water but something more.

 

No, no. the water doesn't get corrupted; it gets infused with tea as desired and transforms into pure tea.

 

The closer we look at particular isolated elements we can see that they are "pure" but the further away we get from detail and look at the whole picture, we realize it's an interaction between two or more elements. Same goes for us as human beings, what we see as ourselves -or what others see us as- is an amalgam of experiences, internal and external forces shape the body and mind.

 

If I may point out, even the mind can be contaminated with logic that is twisted out of line. Just because fine tea enhances fresh water doesn't necessarily mean that every scrap of cultural madness would enhance the human mind.

 

To me, purity is the most transitory state of being, one can be conceptually pure but I think that's as far as it goes.

 

Purity is a desired quality of a thing. I don't know what you mean when you assign that quality to the state of being? The state of being of what?

 

I am sorry if I am being rigorous here. Just as air needs to be kept pure in server rooms, my mind needs to be free of contaminants to function perfectly. Infusion of one piece of twisted logic can really fuck it up.

Edited April 5, 2013 by chenping

[chenping]

Quiet tonight, eh? Not much to talk about when nobody's obstinately and intolerantly devoted to their opinions___.

 

It appears that I am just as intolerant and obstinate as you are. It has been quiet because I was leafing through Sun Tzu's Art of War and mulling in my mind on how to deal with you without causing upset..

[Harmonious Emptiness]

That was quick!

[ChiDragon]

It appears that I am just as intolerant and obstinate as you are. It has been quiet because I was leafing through Sun Tzu's Art of War and mulling in my mind on how to deal with you without causing upset..

 

The people in this forum are not practicing the Art of War. They do get upset most of the time. It is not the customary style of practice in the west anyway.

[Gerard]

.

Edited September 16, 2013 by Gerard

[chenping]

Chidragon, in the second documentary posted above by Gerard, Chief Lu said "don't act according to the will..... acting in line with nature is called wuwei",

 

To my mind, a sailboat driven by the wind reflects action in line with nature. It would take three years to go around the world. A powerboat allows action according to the will. No waiting on the wind.

 

What is your view?

[chenping]

This is not a reply but a reflection on things said in a state of upset. Others call it meditation but I call it scavenging.

 

Gang up?

 

That's how I see it. When "you" against "me" needs backup, it turns into a "you" against "us". It's call amassing group power against the opposition. It's in our human nature to do this - ganging up like pack dogs when there is no courage to stand alone and fight based on principle.

 

It's interesting that you come to the tao bums to argue. Your first post in this thread was argumentative, you continue to be confrontational and argumentative, and seem to be acting the victim at the same time. But are clearly, in your own mind, much superior to the rest of us.

 

I don't come to argue.

 

You have a Chinese username, and claim chi dragon is the only one who can take apart characters without defiling them?? I guess I read too much into it, but it seems you're saying "us" westerners somehow defile Chinese culture.

 

Look, Richard Leirer is not Chinese. But that's besides the point because I am not racist even though Harmonious Happiness keep insisting that I am one. It's the way Leirer (or whoever wrote the article) takes apart the Chinese characters like some sick kid tearing legs off insects for fun. You can't read Chinese so it's no big deal to you one way or another. But I can read Chinese and it means a lot more than mere language to me than your A,B,C, is to you. Similarly, my parents mean a lot more to me, in terms of cultural symbols, than yours are to you. Should I debase my parents by treating them the way you treat yours? And should I just shut up when Gerard shove guys like Leirer doing his thing in my face? I felt disgusted the way an American would on seeing the US Flag trampled on.

 

Either way, you are not an uplifting person to interact with, and clearly I'm still learning which threads to keep myself OUT of. Bye!

 

It's too bad you feel that way. I know it appears selfish of me, but it just doesn't seem right that I must uplift others at my own expense.

[Stosh]

I see no art to war here, in accord with the Tsun Tsu , one gathers allies rather than create enemies.

One operates for some measurable gain , records a win or loss and gathers strength

One occupies the high ground, not taken, not the low

amd most importantly one operates from an objective standpoint not a highly biased one

 

What is more evident here is in line with a "Pickets charge" !

or goofing around. Long let it live! as such.

[chenping]

You can do better than that, Stosh. Come on, give me your best shot. I am dying in here.

 

I need a Taoist workout.

[Stosh]

You can do better than that, Stosh. Come on, give me your best shot. I am dying in here.

 

I need a Taoist workout.

Im thinking that a Taoist workout is to overcome the hard with the soft ,

so I try to be as willing to drop my weapons a bit faster than pick them up.

( its not an easy workout at ALL for me.) .

Find something somewhere, that is really screwed up ,and hone your skills to your heart content.

I hope I can't supply anything like that.

[chenping]

Find something somewhere, that is really screwed up ,and hone your skills to your heart content.

 

My skills can only be honed with people who are half-mad and haven't quite made it to that other shore yet. Take you for instance. You are still coherent and subconsciously sense the danger of being one with the eternal Tao. And so I need to push closer and closer to the edge with you but not fall into the void. It's somewhat like semen retention.

 

I do have a life on this side of sanity and, unlike you, plan to die here.

[Stosh]

I have no desire to be one with the eternal Tao,

Ill die soon enough and find out one way or another.

I try to ally with it , but its not my friend.

I aim for a middle way , to cherry-pick,

And although there are some who choose sides

I figure the human condition to have one foot in the

spiritual reality ,,and the other in the material.

[zerostao]

chenping,

how are you today? indeed iron sharpens iron. i do share your admiration for bruce lee and chidragon.

chidragon is a gentleman and a scholar.

this weekend i will be doing some "edgework"

hope to catch up with you bums next week.

[ChiDragon]

Chidragon, in the second documentary posted above by Gerard, Chief Lu said "don't act according to the will..... acting in line with nature is called wuwei",

 

To my mind, a sailboat driven by the wind reflects action in line with nature. It would take three years to go around the world. A powerboat allows action according to the will. No waiting on the wind.

 

What is your view?

 

Yes, act according to the will is intentional. Wu Wei is unintentional.

 

A sailboat driven by the wind reflects action in line with nature; but the destination is still the will of the human mind.