Grimoire

[Seth Ananda]

Oh and a final final final note.

 

Pacts. Always fulfil your promises. I know of no way of getting around this. If you are stupid enough to offer your pinky finger in exchange for something, once the 'something' arrives, you give your finger.

 

In other words, don't make promises you wont want to keep.

[Friend]

Edited April 14, 2013 by Friend

[Seth Ananda]

I can't believe I forgot to add Ancestors to my list. I keep an permanent Ancestor shrine in my home.

 

In many cultures the Ancestors are your introduction to the spirit world, and they are very protective.

 

My Daughter loves the shrine and insists on offering food, doing plays or telling them stories...

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

hmm to be honest, i dont know what attracted me to the thread in the first place, but unbelievable what i learned coming in here: That I have been inadvertently constructing a Grimoire from bits and pieces of truths i've picked up in fiction, but mostly from scratch!


I've not genuine intent to *"use"* any grimoires and hadnt been intent to "make one" in terms of what "it is" so much as in terms of what truth(s) it contains...


Though i am aware that i've spoken to two guardian angels when i was quite young, i guess i am, or was, "a muggle" since i have never identified beings that i may have worked with or had unwittingly attracted... i simply have a keen perception of when truth is genuine or manipulated...


And i can sense that there are abundant, if not opulent, truths sprinkled into all angles of mythology, mysticism, deism, and spirituality fiction, such as but not limited to The Matrix, Final Fantasy, The Legend of Zelda, Secret of Mana, Tales of Phantasia, What Dreams May Come, and Avatar (air bender or world of navi, take your pick they both have abundant truths!).



Question, though...

Is there really an invisible moon orbiting Mars in a perfectly synchronized orbit that keeps Mars in a perpetually "blood moon" view?

Scary stuff...



Edit:
Seth, your daughter sounds adorable! n_n lucky you.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Northern Avid Judo Ant

[RiverSnake]

Wow, thanks for the awesome posts Seth. What you say resonates and reflects a lot of what I have read and heard on the topic as well as my own internal compass....ie.....treating spirits with respect and building relationships rather than trying to enslave and order other beings around. Much thanks for the gems.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[Mandrake]

Here is my understanding of how to approach Grimoire work safely.

 

Thank you Seth: You bring valuable viewpoints and information. Definitely opened up my understanding.

 

 

Mandrake

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Here is my understanding of how to approach Grimoire work safely.

 

.....

 

My final final note, is spirits are real. If you treat them as psychological manifestations of your own mind, they will resent you and things will go badly for you. Also you will continually underestimate them and their capacities...

Overall a fine post Seth. It is similar to my own experience/understanding, and generally well said. If I had chosen to post a such a guide it would have been very similar. I would have probably added some meta-level context and cross-cultural comparison, but otherwise I would have said about the same thing.

[RiverSnake]

Zhongyong could you clarify what you mean by "meta-level context"?

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited April 8, 2013 by OldGreen

[BaguaKicksAss]

Traditionally handed down from teacher to student. Along with the how to of course .

 

Yes, having prior magical experience most definitely does help, especially if one doesn't have a teacher. The spirits can tell a newbie a mile away, and some see this like taking candy from a baby so to speak (naivety). Also good point Seth regarding the strong divine connection first.

[Birch]

"My final final note, is spirits are real. If you treat them as psychological manifestations of your own mind, they will resent you and things will go badly for you. Also you will continually underestimate them and their capacities... "

 

Now this is the thing that sticks out for me as a huge difference between Buddhism and magical practices. Seth, given your expertise in both, could you talk to this a bit more? I'm finding it tough to get. The book I read by Blofeld on Kuan Yin was about this too. The people he met on his trip had no problems reconciling both.

 

[Seth Ananda]

"My final final note, is spirits are real. If you treat them as psychological manifestations of your own mind, they will resent you and things will go badly for you. Also you will continually underestimate them and their capacities... " Now this is the thing that sticks out for me as a huge difference between Buddhism and magical practices. Seth, given your expertise in both,

Sorry I can't claim expertise in either.

could you talk to this a bit more? I'm finding it tough to get. The book I read by Blofeld on Kuan Yin was about this too. The people he met on his trip had no problems reconciling both.

Sticky subject. Spirits are real. What they are out side of that, who knows.

 

I don't really want to fall into any particular set of conclusions about them other than that they are real.

 

They like being treated as real. Some spirits find the psychological view of them mildly amusing while others find it insulting.

 

Some people have said they are split off parts off ourselves which makes no sense to me any more. Had to many 'shared' spirit encounters to accept the psychological interpretation. That came from Victorian mages who wanted to retain some 'credibility' by being all sciency... thanks Crowley.

 

Some say they {generally} cloth themselves with our expectations.

I don't mind that, as long as it doesn't become an 'all gods of this type are the same being' kind of thing. Some times one Jupitarian god seems to be a very different being to another for instance.

 

Some say they are not psychological manifestations as much as manifestations of our own true nature. To that, well I would say why stop it at us. Our divine spark is part of the One which all things come from so why would I try to rob spirits of their own divine spark? {by believing they just come from me and mine}

 

Some bring up Construct spirits, servitors, and obvious examples of a culture changing a spirit into some other kind of spirit, like Ishtar into Ashteroth as examples.

 

That is probably the trickiest area. Ishtar is still Ishtar, invoke and see. Some Mages still get Ishtar when they Invoke Ashteroth but some specifically get a male demon.

 

Having strong animist leaning, I tend to towards the universal mind being an ensouling process. When a part breaks off the body of a mountain spirit, that 'rock' has been born as a new being.

From this perspective, I might say that Divine Mind imagines or contemplates all beings into being.

And when a Mind {within Divine mind} Imagines a new type of being, it is an event also within Divine Mind so it comes into being. That still gives me no ownership or rights over the new being {not talking about uninteligent constructs} and I can not even claim the Idea itself. All Ideas that I have are alive prior to me within Divine Mind.

 

So I lean that direction but not totally, and it is not even that important to me. What is important is that I treat spirits with respect, and admire their abilities and continue to learn from them. They are real for me and for anyone who gets some decent interaction with them.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Seth Ananda

[Birch]

Thanks Seth, this sheds some light on some things. It would definitely factor into whether I wished to delve further into the 'spirit' contacting stuff.

 

 

[Apech]

On the Buddhist aspect of this ... atheist Buddhism which does not accept the presence in Samsara of gods and other spiritual entities is a modern construct. Traditionally Buddhists had no problem with the existence of the Hindu gods and Buddhists of all ages have propitiated the local deities. However they do not consider these beings to be enlightened or to be able to lead one to liberation and therefore they are not a suitable object for taking refuge.

 

I know someone is going to say 'its all illusion' and 'empty' ... well yes but so is a car, a tree, yourself empty and you accept in conventional terms the existence of these things. So don't get confused between the absolute view and conventional truth. The Buddhist world view includes god realms, ghost realms, hells and so on.

 

Great Buddhist yogis interacted with spirits and demons and on occasion bound them over to serve and protect the dharma.

 

If someone says 'it's all mind' in a yogacara sense (eg. Zen Buddhist) this is not like saying in modern psychology that it is from your sub-conscious and so on ... because 'mind' here means something much more broad and all encompassing than this ... more like an ocean of consciousness. Hence confusion of saying 'it is all mind' means 'its all in the mind' ... as in subjective and fantastical.

[Birch]

Thank you Apech.

[Apech]

We seem to be off topic again.

 

Anyway ... just for clarity are we talking about Grimoires (i.e. written by recognised practitioners) or are we talking about the practice of keeping a Grimoire? Slightly different subjects.

[RiverSnake]

Found a couple books on the history of Grimoires. Probably gonna get both of them in order to educate myself about their historical context and origin. Here's a couple links for those interested, also if anyone has any recommendations please feel free to share:

 

http://www.amazon.com/The-devils-bookshelf-history-written/dp/0850302471/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

http://www.amazon.com/Grimoires-A-History-Magic-Books/dp/0199590044/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited April 9, 2013 by OldGreen

[Friend]

Edited April 14, 2013 by Friend

[RiverSnake]

Just also found a free link for those interested in Ars Paulina, if you'd like to take Seth's tips that is. Don't know if I'll ever get into this kind of stuff, but doing KCHGA first makes sense and resonates with me. It's probably good to have a solid pal in your corner before diving in. http://www.hermetics.org/pdf/grimoire/arspaulina.pdf

 

It seems like they have an entire library of Grimoires on this site: http://www.hermetics.org/

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[BaguaKicksAss]

For grimoires, http://www.esotericarchives.com is also quite awesome .

[Seth Ananda]

I'd like to add the 'Secrets of the Magical Grimoires' by Aaron Lietch Is a brilliant work on the subject.

 

He has put so much work into that book ~ Cheesy title I know, but in terms of history... and modern approaches, and just a complete overview of all known Grimoires, wow!

 

I still boggle sometimes that it is a Lewellyn book. they are often so bland..

[RiverSnake]

Thanks for the recommendation Seth. Also thanks for the link Bagua.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[DragonsNectar69k]

Sorry I can't claim expertise in either.

Sticky subject. Spirits are real. What they are out side of that, who knows.

 

I don't really want to fall into any particular set of conclusions about them other than that they are real.

 

They like being treated as real. Some spirits find the psychological view of them mildly amusing while others find it insulting.

 

Some people have said they are split off parts off ourselves which makes no sense to me any more. Had to many 'shared' spirit encounters to accept the psychological interpretation. That came from Victorian mages who wanted to retain some 'credibility' by being all sciency... thanks Crowley.

 

Some say they {generally} cloth themselves with our expectations.

I don't mind that, as long as it doesn't become an 'all gods of this type are the same being' kind of thing. Some times one Jupitarian god seems to be a very different being to another for instance.

 

Some say they are not psychological manifestations as much as manifestations of our own true nature. To that, well I would say why stop it at us. Our divine spark is part of the One which all things come from so why would I try to rob spirits of their own divine spark? {by believing they just come from me and mine}

 

Some bring up Construct spirits, servitors, and obvious examples of a culture changing a spirit into some other kind of spirit, like Ishtar into Ashteroth as examples.

 

That is probably the trickiest area. Ishtar is still Ishtar, invoke and see. Some Mages still get Ishtar when they Invoke Ashteroth but some specifically get a male demon.

 

Having strong animist leaning, I tend to towards the universal mind being an ensouling process. When a part breaks off the body of a mountain spirit, that 'rock' has been born as a new being.

From this perspective, I might say that Divine Mind imagines or contemplates all beings into being.

And when a Mind {within Divine mind} Imagines a new type of being, it is an event also within Divine Mind so it comes into being. That still gives me no ownership or rights over the new being {not talking about uninteligent constructs} and I can not even claim the Idea itself. All Ideas that I have are alive prior to me within Divine Mind.

 

So I lean that direction but not totally, and it is not even that important to me. What is important is that I treat spirits with respect, and admire their abilities and continue to learn from them. They are real for me and for anyone who gets some decent interaction with them.

 

Could you try to explain what invoking is like and what do you mean by seeing? As seeing with the naked eye or seeing with the minds eye? I ask this because I am not a shaman and have not made friends with any underworld beings nor have the means to yet. You seem to have a lot of first hand experience, so thank you for sharing!

 

Also, I agree. They are REAL. I have tried to study this out for a while. I found some interesting stuff within the Mormon religion concerning spirit. According to Joseph Smith, when he was a seer, he had supposedly revealed that spirit is simply finer than matter and that to see spirit one needed purer eyes. (http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/131.1-4?lang=eng) The man also wrote some interesting stuff that literally instructs believers in how to discern "just' spirits from non-just ones. Tis interesting, since it all deals with Light. (https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/129?lang=eng) Quite the Science to study.

Edited May 24, 2013 by DragonsNectar69k

[Wuxia]

nice grimoire